[1939] Not Paying Full Attention

[Timberwere]

And he looks so calm and composed.

[artezzatrigger]

He's got an excellent poker face

[stclair]

.... yup, still monstrous.

by human morality, of course.

[Nepycros]

So, which is it? Is he restoring selective memories to pre-program Ysengrin to cater to Fire-headed girl? Or is he warping all instances of her in his mind so he sees her as human filth, hated and despised by the old wolf?

[madjack]

Jan 22, 2018 8:14:49 GMT Nepycros said:

So, which is it? Is he restoring selective memories to pre-program Ysengrin to cater to Fire-headed girl? Or is he warping all instances of her in his mind so he sees her as human filth, hated and despised by the old wolf?

Leaving just his hatred would be a great way to draw Parley and Eggers out of the court if he attacks... Which would be one more defense out of the way.

Maybe the events in The Great Secret were just Coyote testing how the court would respond?

Edit: Is this what happened to Ys' ear? Does it get damaged every time Coyote reaches through it to mess with his head?

[rafk]

Not so much crossing the moral event horizon twice as installing a revolving door so he can just keep crossing it again and again and again.

At least we'll always have the years where Coyote was a hilarious prankster before we discovered he was into mind-ripping Ysengrin. Makes me glad I never got a Coyote plushy after all that actually.

[Lightice]

Jan 22, 2018 8:14:49 GMT Nepycros said:

So, which is it? Is he restoring selective memories to pre-program Ysengrin to cater to Fire-headed girl? Or is he warping all instances of her in his mind so he sees her as human filth, hated and despised by the old wolf?

I would say that Coyote's robbing Ysengrin all his moments of anger, like he did before, so that he doesn't make a scene, but in doing so he's preventing him from ever cooling off and considering his actions on his own, producing more and more of this festering hatred bubbling under the surface that poor Ysengrin can't control; how could he, when Coyote's always doing it for him?

I really think that Coyote believes that he's doing everyone a favour, here, not taking into account the long term effects of his actions. The last time Ysengrin had just enough time to be confused and ashamed for his behaviour when Coyote robbed that away, along with the original rage. And as long as that keeps happening, it only going to get worse...

Still, at this point, I don't want to know what would happen if Coyote returned all those stolen memories at once.

[TBeholder]

So… curiosity or compulsive hoarding?

Jan 22, 2018 8:47:24 GMT Lightice said:

Still, at this point, I don't want to know what would happen if Coyote returned all those stolen memories at once.

Half of the forest critters at once are stunned for a few minutes and then continue being highly distracted. From whatever he pulls at the time, presumably.

[arf]

Wolf be tripping.

[philman]

Jan 22, 2018 8:47:24 GMT Lightice said:

I really think that Coyote believes that he's doing everyone a favour, here, not taking into account the long term effects of his actions.

I agree with you on all apart from this line. I think Coyote doesn't care about doing anyone a favour, he is doing this for his own amusement, playing with the minds of others, manipulating them into whatever scenario he dreams up for his own entertainment.

[faiiry]

This page changes what I assumed Coyote's game plan was, as of The Great Secret. This page made me think he was only removing "nasty" memories, but the current page implies that nice memories of Antimony are being removed too. But he's not removing all memories of her, because Ysengrin is still able to understand who she is each time they meet.

Every time we have seen memories being taken (which, at this point, is a mere 3 pages, so don't quote me), they have solely been memories of Annie. What gives? I'm excited to find out. It could be that Coyote is just doing it for laughs, but somehow I am disinclined to think that there are things in the comic that just happen for no reason. (More inclined to believe it after Get Lost, but still, disinclined.)

[Lightice]

Jan 22, 2018 11:22:44 GMT philman said:

I agree with you on all apart from this line. I think Coyote doesn't care about doing anyone a favour, he is doing this for his own amusement, playing with the minds of others, manipulating them into whatever scenario he dreams up for his own entertainment.

One doesn't exclude the other. I don't think that the Coyote really understands the difference between helping others, and entertaining himself. He's certainly put plenty of effort into keeping Annie happy, simply because he finds her so fun and interesting when she isn't moping.

[Gulby]

Jan 22, 2018 8:16:49 GMT madjack said:

Edit: Is this what happened to Ys' ear? Does it get damaged every time Coyote reaches through it to mess with his head?

I believe it has more to do with a broken promess Ysengrin did to Coyote, in the same way Annie had that menace over her wrist for a while. She didn't tell so the tie was untied without damage at the end of the period, but Ysengrin must have talked and his ear went off.

A promess he certainly had to accept under pressure, as Annie. Because, trickster God, you know.

[Fishy]

Coyote just told them he was doing Ysengrin’s hair. It’s amazing how many times they fall for it.

[zaferion]

That's some real overt religious iconography in the second panel there. That's a full blown halo on Ysengrin, and he looks positively holy in the last panel. What are we about to get to get into with this chapter? IMO, we always get the most emotional moments in the story when we're with Ys because of his and Annie's relationship so I think we're going to see that turned up to 12

[jda]

What if...
only C's messing around on Y's mind deters him of attacking any human (besides A's) on sight?

[saardvark]

well, we certainly see that Coyote (or parts of his essence) can be multiple places/do multiple things at once. Part of him is monkeying around in Ys head, while part of him is in conversation with Annie, Smitts and badger-dude. He may even be speaking in panel three, since both A and Smitts are turned towards him, apparently listening.

[jda]

What if...
Coyote LIVES OFF memories, like maybe only memories that involve humans?
Coyote was seen to dissolve into nothing when not in the presence of Annie, maybe he is losing "substance" and routinely "farms" Ysengrin's mind . Maybe Y means only a buffet for him, like a milking cow.

[saardvark]

Jan 22, 2018 14:43:28 GMT jda said:

What if...
Coyote LIVES OFF memories, like maybe only memories that involve humans?
Coyote was seen to dissolve into nothing when not in the presence of Annie, maybe he is losing "substance" and routinely "farms" Ysengrin's mind . Maybe Y means only a buffet for him, like a milking cow.

well, memories are part of what sentient creatures use to construct their own "myths"... their stories of themselves and the world around them.  And those stories/myths are part of what generates the ether, and what makes Coyote.  So I think you are right in a sense...  Coyote *is* memories, in part, and/or fueled by them.

[Daedalus]

I assume the "not paying full attention" refers to the fact that Annie would be able to see Coyote's alterations in the ether if she was looking for them. But Coyote distracted her with conversation, as He is wont to do, and she missed the opportunity to figure out what was going on.

[fia]

Honestly I am confused as to whether Coyote is removing memories, just shuffling them around, or putting them back in. Any thoughts?

[gergle]

Jan 22, 2018 17:40:44 GMT fia said:

Honestly I am confused as to whether Coyote is removing memories, just shuffling them around, or putting them back in. Any thoughts?

I think he's overlaying Y's hatred of humans, Smitty in this case, with memories of Annie,whom he genuinely likes. Keeps him calm.

[viperys]

I get the feeling that C. is watching already happened scene from the other angle, through Y.'s eyes.

So it's not like he's doing the mind rape thing while talking to humans, more like he wants to watch the past scene from a bystander's perspective.

[erunion]

Is..... is coyote making Ysengrin love Annie?

If so - did he do the same with Renard/Surma?

[maxptc]

So seems like Coyote is constantly editing Ys mind, independently of what ever else Coyote is doing. That's..... alarming and raises questions about Ys previous decisions and actions. How much, if any, of what he does is really him and how much is part of whatever the heck Coyote is planning?

[pyradonis]

I'm not sure. Is he removing something? Putting something (back) in? Changing something? Or just peering inside?
FTR, I don't think this is Coyote looking at an earlier scene from Ysengrin's perspective, but touching his mind while he is also talking to Annie and Smitty. He is a God, he can be in multiple places at once. While possibly being also a dead goose in a bush on a lake.

Jan 22, 2018 14:43:28 GMT jda said:

What if...
Coyote LIVES OFF memories, like maybe only memories that involve humans?

I'm pretty sure he does, but I don't think he has to actively collect memories. It is the psychopomp's work to make sure souls are brought back into the Ether to fuel it and make the world spin, creating mythological beings by their stories, memories and beliefs being absorbed along with their essence.

Jan 22, 2018 12:11:03 GMT Gulby said:

Jan 22, 2018 8:16:49 GMT madjack said:

Edit: Is this what happened to Ys' ear? Does it get damaged every time Coyote reaches through it to mess with his head?

I believe it has more to do with a broken promess Ysengrin did to Coyote, in the same way Annie had that menace over her wrist for a while. She didn't tell so the tie was untied without damage at the end of the period, but Ysengrin must have talked and his ear went off.

So you mean he basically talked his own ear off?

[Runningflame]

Jan 22, 2018 23:56:21 GMT maxptc said:

So seems like Coyote is constantly editing Ys mind, independently of what ever else Coyote is doing. That's..... alarming and raises questions about Ys previous decisions and actions. How much, if any, of what he does is really him and how much is part of whatever the heck Coyote is planning?

Could be part of why Jones thinks Ysengrin is rapidly losing his sanity. She sees him making decisions that seem increasingly bizarre and out of place--out of character--not like him. Well, maybe they're not him. 

Note, also, the exchange in that second link:

Jones: I question his sanity.
Coyote: Hahahaha!

And then he changes the topic.

[erunion]

Jan 23, 2018 14:05:44 GMT @dameofdiamonds said:

Jan 22, 2018 21:56:45 GMT erunion said:

Is..... is coyote making Ysengrin love Annie?

If so - did he do the same with Renard/Surma?

Oh dear god no. At least, I really hope that's not where Tom's going with this. I'd always seen Annie and Ysengrin's relationship as platonic, like a surrogate father/mentor and daughter/apprentice type-thing.

I think these last two pages are showing a visual representation of what it's like for Coyote to sift through Ysengrin's mind and we are just seeing what Coyote is seeing (though not maybe not necessarily what he's looking for), namely, Ysengrin's hatred of humans coming into conflict with his positive memories of Annie.

And remember, the Court were the ones who ordered Surma to make Renard fall in love with her, while Coyote was the one who convinced him to possess/kill a man so he could become human.

Just to clarify - there’s a reason I said love and not ‘fall in love’ - love is not necessarily romantic (platonic, paternal/etc.). I’m wondering if Coyote is making Ysengrin ‘love’ Annie in one way or another in order to manipulate him - more crucially I’m wondering if he did this already with Renard/Surma (although there it was clearly romantic).

I share your strong aversion - especially to romantic.

[maxptc]

Jan 23, 2018 5:24:00 GMT Runningflame said:

Jan 22, 2018 23:56:21 GMT maxptc said:

So seems like Coyote is constantly editing Ys mind, independently of what ever else Coyote is doing. That's..... alarming and raises questions about Ys previous decisions and actions. How much, if any, of what he does is really him and how much is part of whatever the heck Coyote is planning?

Could be part of why Jones thinks Ysengrin is rapidly losing his sanity. She sees him making decisions that seem increasingly bizarre and out of place--out of character--not like him. Well, maybe they're not him. 

Note, also, the exchange in that second link:

Jones: I question his sanity.
Coyote: Hahahaha!

And then he changes the topic.

That makes a lot of sense. I really like that observation, did not pick up on that one.

Seems to also be why he got so upset at Annie's reaction to Coyote's great secert. Coyote did predict Ysengrin wasn't gonna be a good walking companion, we (not specifically you, just people and at least I) assumed it was because he knows how Ysengrin will react, but its looking to me like he decided how Ysengrin will react. I just can't shake the feeling Coyote is planning something more devious then just "groom Annie, play pranks and see if anything interesting happens."

[rafk]

Jan 23, 2018 14:05:44 GMT @dameofdiamonds said:

Jan 22, 2018 21:56:45 GMT erunion said:

Is..... is coyote making Ysengrin love Annie?

If so - did he do the same with Renard/Surma?

Oh dear god no. At least, I really hope that's not where Tom's going with this. I'd always seen Annie and Ysengrin's relationship as platonic, like a surrogate father/mentor and daughter/apprentice type-thing.

I think these last two pages are showing a visual representation of what it's like for Coyote to sift through Ysengrin's mind and we are just seeing what Coyote is seeing (though not maybe not necessarily what he's looking for), namely, Ysengrin's hatred of humans coming into conflict with his positive memories of Annie.

And remember, the Court were the ones who ordered Surma to make Renard fall in love with her, while Coyote was the one who convinced him to possess/kill a man so he could become human.

I have no idea how it never occurred to me that Coyote could have done this to Rey as well, but it makes a disturbing amount of sense.