|
|
Post by hubert on Nov 10, 2017 8:19:23 GMT
|
|
|
|
Post by wombat on Nov 10, 2017 8:20:55 GMT
"Annie never wore that shirt again."
GKC is officially a tragedy.
|
|
|
|
Post by stclair on Nov 10, 2017 9:12:33 GMT
But did she take it into the ether?
|
|
|
|
Post by crater on Nov 10, 2017 9:19:36 GMT
Kat couldn't bring herself to call Tony a jerk this time around; mindcontrol in full effect.
|
|
CGAdam
Junior Member
Posts: 86
|
Post by CGAdam on Nov 10, 2017 9:24:31 GMT
I'm guessing this has been done to death in other threads, but I've been thinking about it since Wednesday, and I feel like posting my speculations.
-He couldn't save Surma and feels guilty for it. He's reminded of Surma every time he sees Annie, and she brings back that guilt every time.
-Some part of him hates Annie for killing his beloved wife. Then, he gets double whammied because he knows that's not right, and feels guilty for hating his own daughter.
-He feels guilty about doing whatever he did that put Annie into a coma.
-He regrets abandoning her for two(?) years, but he can't apologize for it. He's terrible with emotion, and he's dealing with a flood of negative ones every time he sees Annie.
-He knows he might very well live to see her die. Annie could easily marry and have a child at the same age Surma did. Tony could see both his wife and daughter die in the exact same way, and know that his granddaughter is destined for the same thing.
That last one's admittedly a stretch, but anything's possible.
|
|
|
|
Post by artezzatrigger on Nov 10, 2017 9:54:38 GMT
From his alone time with Donny, it's either:
1) Heavy amounts of guilt for running away and for almost killing her in his foolishness, thinking he doesn't deserve her forgiveness, or:
2) It's something to do with a threat from the Court.
Or both. I'm leaning heavily towards the first one, but it's likely both.
|
|
|
|
Post by Bandolute on Nov 10, 2017 10:05:04 GMT
Sure, sure, and those reasons are all well and good, but if he's not actively working to get over his issues with her, it doesn't fix anything. You can't just stew in those feelings forever--well, you could, but that's not exactly a foundation for a healthy relationship with your kid.
Reynardine, of comparable guilt and circumstances, manages to be emotionally supportive, available, and involved. Ysengrin, with his bloodrage and swiss cheese memory, does the whole "dad" thing just fine, too (mostly). I'm sure Tony could do it, if he really tried, social awkwardness be damned. Even if it took a long time and a lot of effort.
It shouldn't have to be all on Annie to bridge the gap.
|
|
|
|
Post by philman on Nov 10, 2017 11:59:07 GMT
Sure, sure, and those reasons are all well and good, but if he's not actively working to get over his issues with her, it doesn't fix anything. You can't just stew in those feelings forever--well, you could, but that's not exactly a foundation for a healthy relationship with your kid. Reynardine, of comparable guilt and circumstances, manages to be emotionally supportive, available, and involved. Ysengrin, with his bloodrage and swiss cheese memory, does the whole "dad" thing just fine, too (mostly). I'm sure Tony could do it, if he really tried, social awkwardness be damned. Even if it took a long time and a lot of effort. It shouldn't have to be all on Annie to bridge the gap. No, it shouldn't. And this is why Tony is a bad person. He has reasons for being like this, but so far nobody in the entire comic has ever said that these reasons excuse his actions, except for Annie at the height of her breakdown. the only ones even mentioning that these reasons excuse his actions are people in the comments reacting to say that they don't, despite no one else saying that they do. |
|
|
|
Post by todd on Nov 10, 2017 12:41:58 GMT
I'd speculated on that for the bonus page as well - that she might answer (or at least address) the timeline questions that the readers had been raising in the forums (how old Surma and Antony were at the time of the flashback, whether Surma deceiving Renard took place before or after the events in the flashback, etc.) - though Tom would have written the Bonus Page far enough in advance that he might not have predicted those questions. |
|
|
|
Post by phantaskippy on Nov 10, 2017 13:24:36 GMT
Yeah, in all our trying to understand Tony it is important to remember and even state, that none of the reasons he acts how he does excuses his behavior or even mitigates what a terrible father he has been to his daughter.
Annie needs to move from a child-parent relationship with her ass of a father to a more adult-adult relationship. We've seen her grow up so much, but we've also seen her revert into being a kid the second Tony arrives. This is the story of how she makes that switch, at least I hope it is. There is a possible Tony redemption angle in there too. I think all the Tony focus has upset people largely because this isn't his story, and if it was we probably wouldn't be reading it.
This is still Annie's story, which is good, because I am sick of Tony.
|
|
|
|
Post by Per on Nov 10, 2017 13:31:55 GMT
"Annie never wore that shirt again." GKC is officially a tragedy. No! Death of the author! She wore it again, twice. |
|
|
|
Post by Jelly Jellybean on Nov 10, 2017 14:00:34 GMT
This is still Annie's story, which is good, because I am sick of Tony. I am also sick of Tony, but I've also realized that what I am really sick of Victim Annie. |
|
|
|
Post by Per on Nov 10, 2017 14:18:11 GMT
Also, we already used "Cool Beans" as the title for thread 1853.
|
|
yinglung
Full Member
It's only a tatter of mime.
Posts: 190
|
Post by yinglung on Nov 10, 2017 14:28:53 GMT
Sure, sure, and those reasons are all well and good, but if he's not actively working to get over his issues with her, it doesn't fix anything. You can't just stew in those feelings forever--well, you could, but that's not exactly a foundation for a healthy relationship with your kid. Reynardine, of comparable guilt and circumstances, manages to be emotionally supportive, available, and involved. Ysengrin, with his bloodrage and swiss cheese memory, does the whole "dad" thing just fine, too (mostly). To be fair, we haven't seen if Tony is trying to overcome these issues or not. As has been pointed out, Tony POV is surprisingly rare, and for a lot of people here, unwelcome. In fact, the way the narrative seems to be going, we might see hints of whether or not Tony is overcoming his guilt problems when we see Annie try to interact with him next. Or we might not, because he is a hard character to read. Not unlike Jones. I do feel like it is massively unfair to say that Reynardine's guilt and circumstances are comparable. Reynardine was not part of the chain of events that resulted in Surma's death. I don't think he ever apologizes for trying to take over Annie, effectively attempting murder. He also changes aspects of his personality by changing bodies, which includes shapeshifting. He could argue, at least to himself, that when he was in the body of the dragon, he was the sort of person who would kill someone to escape, but now that he is a wolf/toy, he is different. Or perhaps being a magical slave to Annie is also affecting his morality to match hers. It's a good thing he doesn't seem to mind being a magical slave, or else things would get morally complicated. As for him being available, he genuinely has no discernible goal other than maybe getting back to his old body. We still aren't sure what Tony is doing, and how it affects time he could be spending with his daughter. Suppose he is really trying, but it's taking a long time. How would that look different from what we have seen? If it takes years because he can't trust therapists to be uninfluenced by the court, how would he interact with Annie mere months into his efforts? The way some people talk about Tony's emotional and social problems really reminds me of people saying "You're suffering from depression? Well, just cheer up, you'll be fine." Agreed. Unfortunately, right now she is the best equipped of the two to do so. |
|
|
|
Post by ctso74 on Nov 10, 2017 14:40:20 GMT
But did she take it into the ether? In the Ether, the shirt is expressed as loud Ganjastep. Or maybe Deathstep. I'm not sure which would be funnier. |
|
|
|
Post by phantaskippy on Nov 10, 2017 15:09:34 GMT
This is still Annie's story, which is good, because I am sick of Tony. I am also sick of Tony, but I've also realized that what I am really sick of Victim Annie. We seem to be moving past that. She's asking the question now, she is allowing herself to challenge her state, and we should be close to her being able to confront him about it. Hopefully after several chapters involving robots, George, Coyote and all the things in this comic world that are far more fun than this arc. |
|
|
|
Post by Nyxlexica on Nov 10, 2017 15:47:07 GMT
I'm guessing this has been done to death in other threads, but I've been thinking about it since Wednesday, and I feel like posting my speculations. These all make a lot of sense. I wonder if all his grief and suffering is secondary to an even more straightforward reason, though: what if they never are alone together? Could be that Tony is aware the Court is very actively watching Annie/him and Annie. Could equally be something more ether-related. I'm not sure how I'd feel if this proved to be true - it's got a more satisfying "oh shit" reveal going for it, but could come off as a cheap shortcut to fixing a completely broken relationship. |
|
|
|
Post by Eversist on Nov 10, 2017 16:15:17 GMT
Also, we already used "Cool Beans" as the title for thread 1853. Cool Beans: Part II? The Rhetorical-ing? |
|
|
|
Post by Runningflame on Nov 10, 2017 22:01:06 GMT
Any bets for the bonus page? My guess: back to that tree in Brazil. Yes, yes! That would be perf-- [sees the page] Aw, come on!  (For those who have been wondering why this chapter seemed so drawn-out, my theory is that Tom did a bunch of research on Brazil and its invertebrates and didn't want all that neat learning to go to waste. This theory is slightly hampered by the fact that we didn't go back there for the bonus page.) |
|
|
|
Post by keef on Nov 10, 2017 23:08:13 GMT
No drama, just lost in the laundry
|
|
|
|
Post by todd on Nov 11, 2017 0:27:16 GMT
I'm guessing this has been done to death in other threads, but I've been thinking about it since Wednesday, and I feel like posting my speculations. These all make a lot of sense. I wonder if all his grief and suffering is secondary to an even more straightforward reason, though: what if they never are alone together? Could be that Tony is aware the Court is very actively watching Annie/him and Annie. Could equally be something more ether-related. I'm not sure how I'd feel if this proved to be true - it's got a more satisfying "oh shit" reveal going for it, but could come off as a cheap shortcut to fixing a completely broken relationship. It reminds me of a statement I once read about the difference between drama and melodrama. In both cases, you're pointing a gun at someone whom you're angry at and want to kill, your finger on the trigger. In drama, you can't bring yourself to shoot. In melodrama, the gun jams. Having Antony's distance towards Annie being because he's afraid the Court is spying on them, rather than because of some internal trouble or weakness, definitely seems the "melodrama" approach rather than the "drama" approach. |
|
|
|
Post by Deepbluediver on Nov 11, 2017 6:10:53 GMT
The answer is because Tony is a BAD PARENT- have we not established this already?
|
|
|
|
Post by erunion on Nov 11, 2017 19:16:13 GMT
The answer to this question is simple.
Because.... “She died and I did nothing.”
|
|
yinglung
Full Member
It's only a tatter of mime.
Posts: 190
|
Post by yinglung on Nov 11, 2017 21:05:44 GMT
The answer is because Tony is a BAD PARENT- have we not established this already? It's the other way around. Tony is a bad parent because he doesn't act differently in front of Annie. "Antimony, it's because he is a bad parent." "But what reasons does he have for treating me like he does?" "He is a BAD PARENT." "...how did he-" "BAD" "no one is born ba-" "PARENT" "..." "I hear he's a robot too." |
|
|
|
Post by todd on Nov 12, 2017 1:28:14 GMT
A further thought on my post above about drama vs. melodrama: It certainly fits the clash between Annie's theory that Antony brainwashed Surma and Kat into liking him (the melodrama approach) and Anja's statement that Antony and Surma fell in love under natural circumstances (the drama approach).
|
|
|
|
Post by jda on Nov 12, 2017 4:10:16 GMT
The answer to this question is simple. Because.... “She died and I did nothing.” Mmm, a Diego-Tony analogy would make Annie ... The Green Etheric Arrow? |
|
|
|
Post by maxptc on Nov 12, 2017 16:46:25 GMT
The answer to this question is simple. Because.... “She died and I did nothing.” Mmm, a Diego-Tony analogy would make Annie ... The Green Etheric Arrow? Eh, I'd say Annie is the ghost of Jeanne in that idea, the result of his failings. |
|
|
|
Post by jda on Nov 13, 2017 5:48:20 GMT
Mmm, a Diego-Tony analogy would make Annie ... The Green Etheric Arrow? Eh, I'd say Annie is the ghost of Jeanne in that idea, the result of his failings. On the contrary, Jeanne's Ghost was EXACTLY what Diego intended to create. |
|
|
|
Post by Runningflame on Nov 13, 2017 6:15:16 GMT
Okay, next chapter had better feature Renard or we riot. Who's with me!?  |
|
|
|
Post by stevecharb on Nov 14, 2017 1:01:58 GMT
I want that shirt.
Take my money.
|
|
