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Post by amlybon on Oct 27, 2017 7:04:56 GMT
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Post by avurai on Oct 27, 2017 7:07:44 GMT
Well that escalated,
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Post by Elaienar on Oct 27, 2017 7:10:35 GMT
I'm sure Eglamore is just grabbing him because he wants to thank him personally for looking after his girl while he was away.
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Post by maxptc on Oct 27, 2017 7:15:23 GMT
Yep, about what I expected. I hope James chills out, and just does a "me alpha male, watch back nerd male" speech. If not I expect him to be knocked out by anyone there aside from Donny. It's an understandable response from James, hopefully one Surma saw coming and was prepared for. Teenage love, so much emotional mess for so little sex. I'm sure Eglamore is just grabbing him because he wants to thank him personally for looking after his girl while he was away. He probably noticed that evil mastermind Tony had a comically shaped bomb hidden and wanted to keep Surma safe. |
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Post by spritznar on Oct 27, 2017 7:19:53 GMT
tony, you probably should have let surma keep the spotlight there...
i'm still hoping we're heading for a "yank you close and snarl in your face" deal rather than a "punch you in the face" deal here, but i suppose only time will tell
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Post by maxptc on Oct 27, 2017 7:22:11 GMT
tony, you probably should have let surma keep the spotlight there... i'm still hoping we're heading for a "yank you close and snarl in your face" deal rather than a "punch you in the face" deal here, but i suppose only time will tell I personally think it's gonna be a throw back to how James "won" Surma in the first place. Punching someone out being beginning and end of the romance between them seems like a story sort of thing. |
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kefka
Junior Member
Posts: 98
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Post by kefka on Oct 27, 2017 7:23:42 GMT
Isn't Tony a Judo black belt or something like that? Though Eglamore has superpowers now, so I don't know if he can throw him.
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Post by Elaienar on Oct 27, 2017 7:24:46 GMT
I'm sure Eglamore is just grabbing him because he wants to thank him personally for looking after his girl while he was away. He probably noticed that evil mastermind Tony had a comically shaped bomb hidden and wanted to keep Surma safe. Or possibly the Court has just been attacked and he's pulling him out of the way of one of those dogs made of wood. |
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Post by ih8pkmn on Oct 27, 2017 7:28:22 GMT
Please. Punch him hard enough that these last two years and a half years of Gunnerkrigg Court never happened. I still can't believe there are people that have decided to go over to Tony's side, or ANY of these character's sides. There's a difference between "complex characters" and "plain godawful people". Let's review: - Surma started a relationship with a borderline sociopath (more on that in a bit) while still being committed to Eglamore, and falls for Tony within the span of a few weeks because Eglamore isn't there. More recently (chronologically in-comic), after her daughter was born, she doesn't take any steps to warn her of what might happen when she dies; no details about her life at the Court, her friends, nothing.
- Eglamore, rather than talking out emotions with Surma and Tony, decides to immediately to hit Tony in the face. He's still the most likable character here.
- Donnie and Anja decide to not even try to intervene when Annie shows clear signs of emotional trauma in Chapter 52. "A head-on approach never really works with Tony," Donald claims. Donnie then tries to act as an apologist for Anthony in the next chapter, instead of doing what was his stated goal, trying to show Tony that he had gone too far.
- Hell, Donnie and Anja in general are kind of awful parents in the exact opposite way that Anthony is; they give Kat too much freedom and almost no supervision. The last time Anja came into Kat's workshop that we've seen is, what, Chapter 21? The Shadow Men have been keeping closer tabs on Kat than her parents have. What if something happened, like, say, a robot cult kidnapping your daughter's whole class? Talking of, why has almost nobody in the comic addressed that that happened?
- Kat, the daughter of the aforementioned second-worst parents in Gunnerkrigg Court, starts a working relationship with her best friend's emotionally abusive father without telling her, even offering to regrow his arm, and sees nothing wrong with this.
And then there's Anthony. 'Sociopath' may not be the right term, but I'm not sure what the correct term would be for someone who is perfectly capable of acting like a normal human being around seemingly everyone except their only living family. He doesn't even attempt to get close to her, to say "I'm sorry" or explain why he's been gone to her face. Why? Because she looks like his dead wife? At this point, I wouldn't be surprised if he's being cold completely on purpose. "Social awkwardness" only excuses so much. It's 3:30 as I write this, so this may not be the most coherent. But good lord, I'm having trouble liking any character in this comic as of late. Even Annie's straining my patience. |
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Post by maxptc on Oct 27, 2017 7:29:01 GMT
He probably noticed that evil mastermind Tony had a comically shaped bomb hidden and wanted to keep Surma safe. Or possibly the Court has just been attacked and he's pulling him out of the way of one of those dogs made of wood. Clearly Ysengrin has used this dramatic opportunity to mount a surprise attack, but Tony being a double agent also seems obvious. Maybe Donny as well. |
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Post by philman on Oct 27, 2017 7:37:35 GMT
- Surma started a relationship with a borderline sociopath (more on that in a bit) while still being committed to Eglamore, and falls for Tony within the span of a few weeks because Eglamore isn't there. More recently (chronologically in-comic), after her daughter was born, she doesn't take any steps to warn her of what might happen when she dies; no details about her life at the Court, her friends, nothing.
- Eglamore, rather than talking out emotions with Surma and Tony, decides to immediately to hit Tony in the face. He's still the most likable character here.
- Donnie and Anja decide to not even try to intervene when Annie shows clear signs of emotional trauma in Chapter 52. "A head-on approach never really works with Tony," Donald claims. Donnie then tries to act as an apologist for Anthony in the next chapter, instead of doing what was his stated goal, trying to show Tony that he had gone too far.
- Hell, Donnie and Anja in general are kind of awful parents in the exact opposite way that Anthony is; they give Kat too much freedom and almost no supervision. The last time Anja came into Kat's workshop that we've seen is, what, Chapter 21? The Shadow Men have been keeping closer tabs on Kat than her parents have. What if something happened, like, say, a robot cult kidnapping your daughter's whole class? Talking of, why has almost nobody in the comic addressed that that happened?
- Kat, the daughter of the aforementioned second-worst parents in Gunnerkrigg Court, starts a working relationship with her best friend's emotionally abusive father without telling her, even offering to regrow his arm, and sees nothing wrong with this.
And then there's Anthony. 'Sociopath' may not be the right term, but I'm not sure what the correct term would be for someone who is perfectly capable of acting like a normal human being around seemingly everyone except their only living family. He doesn't even attempt to get close to her, to say "I'm sorry" or explain why he's been gone to her face. Why? Because she looks like his dead wife? At this point, I wouldn't be surprised if he's being cold completely on purpose. "Social awkwardness" only excuses so much. It's almost as if the characters are human and make mistakes. |
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Post by spritznar on Oct 27, 2017 7:39:30 GMT
tony, you probably should have let surma keep the spotlight there... i'm still hoping we're heading for a "yank you close and snarl in your face" deal rather than a "punch you in the face" deal here, but i suppose only time will tell I personally think it's gonna be a throw back to how James "won" Surma in the first place. Punching someone out being beginning and end of the romance between them seems like a story sort of thing. i suppose it would have an ironic symmetry, but was that first fisticuffs the beginning of their relationship? i thought they were already dating at the time... either way, if face punching occurs, i don't see it being particularly successful... muscly dragonslayer or no, i think there are too many people there with deflection potential |
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Post by speedwell on Oct 27, 2017 7:41:11 GMT
I noticed everyone assumes Surma calmly (or not so calmly, knowing her) told James exactly what the score was as soon as he walked into the room with Donnie and Anja.
On the contrary, all of the reactions here are more consistent with "Jesus, can't those two get a room... wait, is that who I think it is?".
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Post by maxptc on Oct 27, 2017 7:44:23 GMT
Why? Because she looks like his dead wife? Its a little more then looks like his dead wife. More like she Shang Tsung'd the love of his life just by existing. I understand not finding any of them likeable at this point, but none of them have crossed the line for me, they have made big but ultimately (mostly)human mistakes. |
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Post by maxptc on Oct 27, 2017 7:48:45 GMT
I noticed everyone assumes Surma calmly (or not so calmly, knowing her) told James exactly what the score was as soon as he walked into the room with Donnie and Anja. On the contrary, all of the reactions here are more consistent with "Jesus, can't those two get a room... wait, is that who I think it is?". This is a good point. Those three walking in on a scene just after James got back would change the narrative significantly. i suppose it would have an ironic symmetry, but was that first fisticuffs the beginning of their relationship? i thought they were already dating at the time... either way, if face punching occurs, i don't see it being particularly successful... muscly dragonslayer or no, i think there are too many people there with deflection potential Oh yeah, my instinct is that Tony will defend himself fine, but if not one of the girls will sit him down. |
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Post by spritznar on Oct 27, 2017 7:59:09 GMT
i suppose it would have an ironic symmetry, but was that first fisticuffs the beginning of their relationship? i thought they were already dating at the time... either way, if face punching occurs, i don't see it being particularly successful... muscly dragonslayer or no, i think there are too many people there with deflection potential Oh yeah, my instinct is that Tony will defend himself fine, but if not one of the girls will sit him down. actually though, the narrative circle could also close with james reigning in his anger, since that's one of the things he was supposed to be working on in the fancy training he's always away doing |
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Post by crater on Oct 27, 2017 7:59:11 GMT
if Tony flips Eggs...
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Post by spritznar on Oct 27, 2017 8:02:32 GMT
james would probably flip if that happened |
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Post by speedwell on Oct 27, 2017 8:02:56 GMT
...will he go over hard or easy? |
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Post by Angry Individual on Oct 27, 2017 8:04:25 GMT
Surma: "It isn't working out.." James:  |
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Post by spritznar on Oct 27, 2017 8:04:33 GMT
...will he go over hard or easy? YES! i was so torn between the comment i made and something egg related, i'm so glad someone else said it |
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Post by maxptc on Oct 27, 2017 8:06:44 GMT
Oh yeah, my instinct is that Tony will defend himself fine, but if not one of the girls will sit him down. actually though, the narrative circle could also close with james reigning in his anger, since that's one of the things he was supposed to be working on in the fancy training he's always away doing I'd like that, seeing that change would mean James has grown up and isn't just a hot head in the present. It would also imply that his rage isn't just harboring a broken heart, but that his problem with Tony is only partially fueled by unrequited love. |
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Post by imaginaryfriend on Oct 27, 2017 8:11:06 GMT
Surma started a relationship with a borderline sociopath (more on that in a bit) while still being committed to Eglamore, and falls for Tony within the span of a few weeks because Eglamore isn't there. More recently (chronologically in-comic), after her daughter was born, she doesn't take any steps to warn her of what might happen when she dies; no details about her life at the Court, her friends, nothing. Not gonna defend Anthony. Not sure what level of commitment Surma was at with James so I'm prepared to judge her on a sliding scale on that count. Eglamore, rather than talking out emotions with Surma and Tony, decides to immediately to hit Tony in the face. He's still the most likable character here. Not justifying any violence that may happen but I don't buy the "you were never around" bit as being the sole cause of her wanting to have a fling on her tropical vaycay. It may be the case that Surma is just passionate, impulsive, and/or has a short attention span. Or maybe she's shallow af. [waits until Monday to see if James actually goes through with it] Donnie and Anja decide to not even try to intervene when Annie shows clear signs of emotional trauma in Chapter 52. "A head-on approach never really works with Tony," Donald claims. Donnie then tries to act as an apologist for Anthony in the next chapter, instead of doing what was his stated goal, trying to show Tony that he had gone too far. They've been trying to reach out since soon after Antimony got to the Court in Ch. 2. The problems are that they're treating her they way Anthony would want to be treated and they're not trained for this level of stuff. Hell, Donnie and Anja in general are kind of awful parents in the exact opposite way that Anthony is; they give Kat too much freedom and almost no supervision. The last time Anja came into Kat's workshop that we've seen is, what, Chapter 21? The Shadow Men have been keeping closer tabs on Kat than her parents have. What if something happened, like, say, a robot cult kidnapping your daughter's whole class? Talking of, why has almost nobody in the comic addressed that that happened? What happens when a child is hyper-responsible is that said child is usually given all sorts of control over their own lives until the point where they prove they aren't ready for a given level of slack by up-screwing. Kat's earned a lot of trust and has been covering her tracks well; the only time I recall her doing something reckless that her parents could have known about was way back in chapter 8 and it resulted in saving Antimony's life. Kat, the daughter of the aforementioned second-worst parents in Gunnerkrigg Court, starts a working relationship with her best friend's emotionally abusive father without telling her, even offering to regrow his arm, and sees nothing wrong with this. That wasn't Kat's idea. Juliette made that happen and she has one or two things on Kat. Yeah, I think Kat is in denial a bit about the circumstances of this working relationship all around (not just with Anthony and the possible effect on Antimony) but it's also true that she didn't expect Antimony to learn about it this soon. |
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Post by Rasselas on Oct 27, 2017 8:21:00 GMT
I still can't believe there are people that have decided to go over to Tony's side, or ANY of these character's sides. There's a difference between "complex characters" and "plain godawful people". You do realize that if a story only has awesome people that you approve of, you are left with no story, no conflict, no ambiguity? No nuance or subtlety? You know what happens when literature is in the service of ideology? You get something like communist soc-realism which extols the virtues of hard work, hygiene and helping your neighbors. It can have negative characters, but they are safely isolated for proper recognition as evil, so there's absolutely no mistake who the villain might be. I much prefer the way this comic deals with it. I disagree with your assessment of these characters as "plain godawful people," I see them as humanized and made more complex by their realistic flaws. |
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Post by snipertom on Oct 27, 2017 8:28:28 GMT
Isn't Tony a Judo black belt or something like that? Though Eglamore has superpowers now, so I don't know if he can throw him. Possibly why he learnt Judo |
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Post by Rasselas on Oct 27, 2017 8:45:26 GMT
Socialist realismThe artist could not, however, portray life just as they saw it because anything that reflected poorly on Communism had to be omitted. People who could not be shown as either wholly good or wholly evil could not be used as characters. This was reflective of the Soviet idea that morality is simple: things are either right or wrong. This view on morality called for idealism over realism. Art was filled with health and happiness: paintings showed busy industrial and agricultural scenes; sculptures depicted workers, sentries, and schoolchildren.I will tell you, this type of art is boring, and offensively patronizing. I also doubt it would inspire pages upon pages of discussion. There'd be nothing to discuss. I also dislike this notion that people are taking sides. This is not a football match, it's a narrative with multiple fairly developed characters whose perspectives are interesting to explore. When someone's trying to understand a character's perspective, they're not taking a side, they're trying to understand the story from that point. That's why I'm on Team Donny, because I prefer gaining deeper understanding about the different corners of the story, regardless of how dark or disturbing they may be.
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Post by snipertom on Oct 27, 2017 8:50:51 GMT
Socialist realismThe artist could not, however, portray life just as they saw it because anything that reflected poorly on Communism had to be omitted. People who could not be shown as either wholly good or wholly evil could not be used as characters. This was reflective of the Soviet idea that morality is simple: things are either right or wrong. This view on morality called for idealism over realism. Art was filled with health and happiness: paintings showed busy industrial and agricultural scenes; sculptures depicted workers, sentries, and schoolchildren.I will tell you, this type of art is boring, and offensively patronizing. I also doubt it would inspire pages upon pages of discussion. There'd be nothing to discuss. I also dislike this notion that people are taking sides. This is not a football match, it's a narrative with multiple fairly developed characters whose perspectives are interesting to explore. When someone's trying to understand a character's perspective, they're not taking a side, they're trying to understand the story from that point. That's why I'm on Team Donny, because I prefer gaining deeper understanding about the different corners of the story, regardless of how dark or disturbing they may be. Woo team Donny! *flies a flag* |
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Post by TBeholder on Oct 27, 2017 9:02:46 GMT
tony, you probably should have let surma keep the spotlight there... i'm still hoping we're heading for a "yank you close and snarl in your face" deal rather than a "punch you in the face" deal here, but i suppose only time will tell I thought the same. Of course, that in itself is an evidence in favour of unexpected turn. He probably noticed that evil mastermind Tony had a comically shaped bomb hidden and wanted to keep Surma safe. Or possibly the Court has just been attacked and he's pulling him out of the way of one of those dogs made of wood. Wait. I thought we are supposed to use flechettes, not magic bullets? |
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Post by maxptc on Oct 27, 2017 9:04:34 GMT
Socialist realismThe artist could not, however, portray life just as they saw it because anything that reflected poorly on Communism had to be omitted. People who could not be shown as either wholly good or wholly evil could not be used as characters. This was reflective of the Soviet idea that morality is simple: things are either right or wrong. This view on morality called for idealism over realism. Art was filled with health and happiness: paintings showed busy industrial and agricultural scenes; sculptures depicted workers, sentries, and schoolchildren.I will tell you, this type of art is boring, and offensively patronizing. I also doubt it would inspire pages upon pages of discussion. There'd be nothing to discuss. I also dislike this notion that people are taking sides. This is not a football match, it's a narrative with multiple fairly developed characters whose perspectives are interesting to explore. When someone's trying to understand a character's perspective, they're not taking a side, they're trying to understand the story from that point. That's why I'm on Team Donny, because I prefer gaining deeper understanding about the different corners of the story, regardless of how dark or disturbing they may be. Woo team Donny! *flies a flag* Sure, fly your flag of your likable reasonable character. The born again robots will revolt, it is imminent, inevitable, and awesome. *Flies robo flag* |
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ffkonoko
New Member
I've been a New Member for 9 years.
Posts: 44
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Post by ffkonoko on Oct 27, 2017 9:12:40 GMT
There is a huge problem, in that we do NOT know as much as we think we do, we have been given brief snippets, one-sided glimpses, and people are making conclusions based on them. We do not know how long James and Surma have been together, how often James is away, exactly what condition their relationship was in before the trip.
So, Surma? I agree that there is more to it than "you're never around", I also agree it's not just some two week absence that has caused it. But we've also been told that as well. When she and Anja are talking, "sometimes I think he(donny) misses him more than I do", "'is stupid training, he's away so much, just be here"...seems to paint it pretty clearly a frequent long term problem and she was already drifting away from him long before the bughunt trip.
Meanwhile Tony cannot bear to be around his own daughter, not just because she reminds him of his dead wife, or of his failure to keep her alive, but also because of his own failure and obsession leading him to hurting her. Donny very specifically showed off that Tony is a different person when alone, able to actually slightly open up about these things when 1 on 1. We have been shown as such repeatedly, even, even around Kat. The person who is our main point of view has a very BIG reason why he'd still have trouble around her. Yes, one can analyze objectively, say that he should have done differently, or that he is a flawed person...heck, that's exactly what he's done to himself too. I think some people saw how cold and detached he seemed, then said "well, since he's so cold, he can't have done x out of emotion", when if anything he was MORE affected because he couldn't properly express it. Which was the whole point of the Brin story.
So, while some people are crying for Tony to get punched by the hyper-strong dragon-slayer guy with rage problems (which I'm pretty sure won't happen, because it would KILL HIM), I'm thinking that the fact that Tony even tried to talk during the confrontation is a sign of him trying harder than some would give credit.
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