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Post by Nepycros on Oct 20, 2017 7:15:24 GMT
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Post by zbeeblebrox on Oct 20, 2017 7:17:31 GMT
Haha, out of context that's a pretty foreboding line
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Post by shadow3 on Oct 20, 2017 7:20:24 GMT
This explains Kat's odd chuckling time with Tony in the previous chapter. It also paints his facial expression when Annie interrupts them in an interesting new light. www.gunnerkrigg.com/?p=1854 |
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Post by imaginaryfriend on Oct 20, 2017 7:22:23 GMT
Haha, out of context that's a pretty foreboding line Even in context it's a bit foreboding. Not sure she means "Don't worry I'll break it off cleanly with James" by that. |
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Post by philman on Oct 20, 2017 7:23:51 GMT
To be honest, I can understand that feeling. Around 2-3 people I can be absolutely fine, more than that and my socialness takes a swan dive into the corner.
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Post by zbeeblebrox on Oct 20, 2017 7:24:11 GMT
Haha, out of context that's a pretty foreboding line Even in context it's a bit foreboding. Not sure she means "Don't worry I'll break it off cleanly with James" by that. Obviously, it means she's going to kill him. See, that's the twist... James HAS BEEN DEAD THE WHOLE TIME |
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ST13R
Full Member
Quiet little mouse
Posts: 171
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Post by ST13R on Oct 20, 2017 7:42:30 GMT
But what about the coffee? It'll get cold ):
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Post by aline on Oct 20, 2017 7:44:55 GMT
Well, at least Surma knows what she wants. One character trait for me to like.
I like young Tony better, though. I don't like the failure of a father he becomes later, but the socially awkward young man I actually enjoy.
On another note, I wonder if Surma decision to leave the Court was partly in order to be happier with a Tony who can be himself with her alone.
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Post by machiavelli33 on Oct 20, 2017 7:50:28 GMT
And there it is.
Several neat knots have just been tied in the tangled mess of frayed ends that is our questions about Tony.
I really feel for Tony. Even for someone like me - who's found a lot of success breaking out of the prison of his own awkwardness - I can still remember clearly all the things I knew I could do - the things I wanted to say, and be, socially, that I just couldn't. Whether it's shyness, or shame, or old hangups.
And of course you're socially hyper-aware at the same time (it's part of why you have the problem in the first place) so you know you turn people off doing it - or worse you hurt people doing it. And it's not like you *want* to. And when it inevitably happens, you can't even fault the people you hurt for feeling the way they do.
"How can she live with the man that killed her mother?" "How could I do that to my own daughter?"
Your own personality...your own failings become one of the things that drives you craziest in life. It and the mistakes you make because of it haunt you the deepest and the longest.
These two lines from today's page can infer so much about Tony.
Go back and re-read Annie and the Fire. It was already a sad chapter. It's so much sadder, now.
Perhaps the things Tony did to Annie don't make him a good person. I'm sure he'd certainly agree.
But then, who among us is, in the end?
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Post by arf on Oct 20, 2017 8:10:00 GMT
"I'm glad you say you'll deal with James because I'm not sure* I could take down a jealous Dragon Slayer."
So there it is. Surma is part Fire Elemental. Tony is part Weeping Angel.**
* "Actually, I am sure I couldn't."
**aka extreme introversion. I tune out of a crowd as well, although not to this extent!
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Post by imaginaryfriend on Oct 20, 2017 8:11:33 GMT
Go buy a new flange, Anj
I'm already gone, Don
No need to discuss much
Just listen to me
No more games, James
There's better men, Ren
Don't have to agree with me
But I gotta be free
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Post by aline on Oct 20, 2017 8:46:21 GMT
Joke aside, did she "deal" with James? I genuinely thought Eglamore was an adult here (though it might be because he's beef), same with Surma and Anja in S1. Why does everyone think Surma and Tony are teens in this chapter? They're young adults, but I'm fairly sure they're adults. |
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Post by youwiththeface on Oct 20, 2017 9:19:09 GMT
Okay, I'm not the only one less than blown away by the 'real' Tony, am I? I mean sure he's a little less like a robot out here with Surma, but it's not like he's an entirely different person. He's really not THAT different at all, so I wasn't really sold on that bit of conflict at the end there. And I still don't care about these characters and their situation, and depending on where the story's going, that could be really not good for it.
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Post by faiiry on Oct 20, 2017 11:13:48 GMT
Huh. Never really got the impression that Tony and Eggers would be on a first name basis.
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Post by faiiry on Oct 20, 2017 11:32:11 GMT
On the whole though, I'm really not impressed with Surma. I understand that she's lonely and her boyfriend is never around, but I don't think that gives her free reign to just jump (literally) on the first guy who comes around, is nice to her, and isn't taken. It's probably barely been two weeks at this point, and that's a REALLY fast timeframe to abandon your boyfriend for someone you barely knew before. I dunno, I'm just not impressed. It would help if there was oodles of chemistry between Surma and Tony, which frankly there is not.
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Post by crater on Oct 20, 2017 12:00:34 GMT
this is not standard coffee drinking protocol
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Post by pyradonis on Oct 20, 2017 12:15:28 GMT
All in all, I'm very glad she isn't perfect. Me too. Annie's memories always painted her as sort of a saint, so it's good to get to know her as a person with virtues and flaws like everyone else. On the whole though, I'm really not impressed with Surma. I understand that she's lonely and her boyfriend is never around, but I don't think that gives her free reign to just jump (literally) on the first guy who comes around, is nice to her, and isn't taken. It's probably barely been two weeks at this point, and that's a REALLY fast timeframe to abandon your boyfriend for someone you barely knew before. I dunno, I'm just not impressed. It would help if there was oodles of chemistry between Surma and Tony, which frankly there is not. Who says that Tony is the first one? Maybe Surma is used to guys hitting on her all the time while James is away, who knows? Maybe she does not feel she is abandoning James because she feels abandoned BY James. Concerning the chemistry, I don't know. I can never recognize chemistry between two people in real life, not even between myself and someone (I can't even recognize someone hitting on me unless they at least start twisting a lock of their hair), so I would not expect to recognize chemistry between to fictional characters. I thought that was represented by all the lens flares. What is missing in your opinion? |
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Post by snowflake on Oct 20, 2017 12:43:44 GMT
Surma is part Fire Elemental. Tony is part Weeping Angel. This is a really nice way to put it. Also, I learned just last night what "weeping angels" were from a pop culture article, and it's striking to encounter a reference so soon. Surely this is the Baader-Meinhof phenomenon at work. |
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Post by arf on Oct 20, 2017 13:16:46 GMT
Apart from James being away a lot, there's also the small matter of Jones. (Remember her?) I've the feeling that Surma has had an unconscious attraction to Tony for a while (hence the impulse decision to head off into the wilderness alone for a few weeks with BFFs boyfriend's BMF, as you do, for Science.) That, of course, begs the question as to when the attraction started. It might have been when Surma realised Brinnie* had fallen for the annoying lump, and got curious as to why. * Bonus Q: given her valkyric heritage, is Brinnie a psychopomp? |
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Post by ctso74 on Oct 20, 2017 13:34:04 GMT
James: "What?! Surma, how can you leave me heartbroken and alone?"
Surma: "I got you a Coyote plushy, to keep you company."
James: "Oh... It's awfully cute. Well, that really does deal with it."
Surma: "Just don't transfer your joy for a Coyote plushy, to someone who acts inanimate."
James: *through gritted teeth* "You too..."
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Post by novia on Oct 20, 2017 13:43:34 GMT
*back to present day*
Anja: And then 9 months later, you were born! And Kat, coincidentally, you were conceived at a funeral.
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Post by faiiry on Oct 20, 2017 13:53:11 GMT
All in all, I'm very glad she isn't perfect. Me too. Annie's memories always painted her as sort of a saint, so it's good to get to know her as a person with virtues and flaws like everyone else. On the whole though, I'm really not impressed with Surma. I understand that she's lonely and her boyfriend is never around, but I don't think that gives her free reign to just jump (literally) on the first guy who comes around, is nice to her, and isn't taken. It's probably barely been two weeks at this point, and that's a REALLY fast timeframe to abandon your boyfriend for someone you barely knew before. I dunno, I'm just not impressed. It would help if there was oodles of chemistry between Surma and Tony, which frankly there is not. Who says that Tony is the first one? Maybe Surma is used to guys hitting on her all the time while James is away, who knows? Maybe she does not feel she is abandoning James because she feels abandoned BY James. Concerning the chemistry, I don't know. I can never recognize chemistry between two people in real life, not even between myself and someone (I can't even recognize someone hitting on me unless they at least start twisting a lock of their hair), so I would not expect to recognize chemistry between to fictional characters. I thought that was represented by all the lens flares. What is missing in your opinion? On the first matter, I dunno. It was just an assumption of mine. Based on this page, I kind of got the idea that Surma doesn't really hang out with anyone besides her regular friend group. She acts like she'll be entirely alone if her four friends are away. (Brinnie doesn't come into the equation - I guess she was off somewhere as well?) But that doesn't necessarily preclude the notion that she has been cheating on James like crazy left and right whenever he's away, which, based on her behavior, is definitely not impossible. About the chemistry, it's one of the things that has disappointed me about this chapter. It's a personal thing for me. I just don't feel it. I don't get why these two people are in love. I understand why they'd be warming up to each other, sure. I definitely get that they're discovering that it's fun to hang out. But I don't buy the idea that, from what we've seen of their interaction so far, Tony and Surma are suddenly smoking hot for each other. Nothing about their relationship so far has indicated to me that these two kids are in love, up until Wednesday's page came out of the blue. And add that onto the fact that Surma has a steady boyfriend... it doesn't sit right with me that she'd abandon him so quickly for this guy she barely knows. I've been thinking about it for a few minutes trying to answer your question, and I'm just feeling this sense of emptiness with regards to this relationship. I get that they're teenagers and they're attracted to anything that moves, but their relationship is SO abrupt and without cause. Where did the passion come from? Surma feels passionately hot for Tony because...he's good with bugs and he's made like, two jokes? I don't understand. This has got me thinking about a theory that maybe the slugs have something to do with it. Surma only got the goo-goo eyes after she watched the two slugs going at it. Perhaps the slugs give off some aphrodisiac gas or something. |
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Post by davidm on Oct 20, 2017 14:04:31 GMT
I like young Tony better, though. I don't like the failure of a father he becomes later Part of that is driven by plot/luck. Tony did everything he could to get his wife not to die and then to try and get her back, if he succeeded he would seem more hero like Annie. The court wants "Omega device" and Tony to control Annie, if he shows her affection he risks that being manipulated against Annie. If Tony was "perfect father" and as a result a pawn in larger scheme that builds omega device and/or is held hostage or daughter is held hostage, also may seem a failure. (Common plot for genius scientist to have his daughter held captive to force him to work on a device that can cause great harm) If Annie had failed and caused death of multiple friends and jail time for breaking the law and let loose a psycho robot who ended up causing lots of death and destruction and ugly war with forest, she might seem more a "failure of a daughter". We also don't know the status of "Rest of the Dead", compared to Annie guiding "ghosts" to psychopomps... it could be that Mort and friends had it really good, while psychopomps are like vampires that destroy others to sustain themselves, in that case Annie being their agent could be much "bigger failure" than Tony. (In that case a hero would be more like "buffy the vampire slayer" and help ghosts to learn to be happy with their new endless life without sickness and superpowers like illusion and flying) [http://magellanverse.com/ webcomic for example had most recent plot where a girl acted in a very Annie like way in attempt to help someone she thought was trapped and as result unleashed a monster that risked extreme amounts of death and destruction and torture/suffering/enslavement] If Annie found a group of beings who promised her a way to bring her mother back to life, Annie might believe them and do what they say without realising she was instead killing her father. |
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Post by jda on Oct 20, 2017 14:05:20 GMT
This has got me thinking about a theory that maybe the slugs have something to do with it. Surma only got the goo-goo eyes after she watched the two slugs going at it. Perhaps the slugs give off some aphrodisiac gas or something. My, oh, my, that's an enough /wild-spec for me, and I bet 20 cookies on it! |
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Post by Nepycros on Oct 20, 2017 14:05:48 GMT
Y'know, the purpose of a montage is to show that a lot of things happened.
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Post by wynne on Oct 20, 2017 14:12:04 GMT
Why does everyone think Surma and Tony are teens in this chapter? They're young adults, but I'm fairly sure they're adults. I can't really say to be honest. They look younger than 20 to me, and Surma and Eglamore look like they're 25+ in the pages I've linked. If I had to say a number based on a the way they act and look, I would say they're 17? But maybe it's just a matter of art change*. *and me being a very poor reader Would the Court send 17 year olds off by themselves to do field research, though? I got the feeling that in S1 they're in college, maybe late high school, and this is late college/grad school. Tom's art evolution definitely makes a difference, though; Annie looked younger to me in the last chapter than she did in Faraway Morning. I'm not gonna be a Surma apologist or anything, not breaking up with James first is supremely shitty, but I agree with the "she felt neglected by James being away all the time, and that has probably been building up since before the S1 flashback" interpretation. Jones probably didn't help. She could have done this a lot more ethically, but I understand how she got here. |
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Post by atteSmythe on Oct 20, 2017 14:28:29 GMT
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Post by GriffTheJack on Oct 20, 2017 15:08:33 GMT
Surma and Tony don't have to be suddenly head-over-heels in love for all of this to make sense. All that matters is that at this moment, isolated with him for every day of this trip, Surma is feeling more for Tony than she is for James (who she maybe hasn't seen in months?). This seems to be the first step towards Surma and Tony running away from the Court together, but we don't know what other stuff happened between this trip and then (including whether the Renard fiasco has happened by this point or not). I'm just going to be patient, we'll get the full timeline eventually.
And anyway, Annie and Kat's reactions to the story are way more important than the story itself. It's fun to see Tony and Surma actually doing things together and being happy (which I don't think we've ever seen before), but in terms of the comic as a whole this chapter is just... straightforward? Like, considering the rest of the flashbacks we've seen, there was a good chance we would eventually see this, and now we have. We can move on from here to Annie understanding her father better, hopefully...
(And then we can get back to High Priest Robot and the Omega Project)
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Post by subversiveasset on Oct 20, 2017 15:26:39 GMT
So, now I'm wondering how many times that Tony has only been seen with 1 other person in the comic. There's obviously this part with Surma, and then there's when Tony and Kat are talking about making him a hand (and Kat even comments to Annie that he's different when there aren't other people.)
I feel like we've seen Tony one on one with Annie, so I don't know why Annie wouldn't have seen the other side to him. On the other hand, there are confounding variables...Tony doesn't feel like he deserves Annie, and that may cause him to be colder.
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Post by ohthatone on Oct 20, 2017 15:38:05 GMT
I'm actually really glad Surma says she'll deal with James in such a non-chalant way. none of this "oh,but what will my boyfriend think? what will I do? oh gosh..." which adds to my theory their relationship was going downhill for Surma already.
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