[1848] What's their deal?

[doublefried]

Peculiar behavior indeed

[fish]

Oh no, Arthur is... loyal to the cult.

...will he be honored with a new religious office, right under the prophet Robot?

This whole cult thing makes me incredibly uneasy, ever since it first appeared. I guess I just don't like cults.

[imaginaryfriend]

"Appearing on our radar" suggests to me that the Court grand poobahs didn't really give a fig about the Love Boat incident beyond a raised collective eyebrow.

[youwiththeface]

Jun 23, 2017 7:13:58 GMT fish said:

Oh no, Arthur is... loyal to the cult.

...will he be honored with a new religious office, right under the prophet Robot?

This whole cult thing makes me incredibly uneasy, ever since it first appeared. I guess I just don't like cults.

This is a judicious point of view to take, but it's possible Arthur has been using the cult to get close to Kat. I don't consider it to be incredibly likely but I think it's at least possible. 

[aline]

Hhm. I thought they might tell Kat that she's become some kind of prophet/god to the Court's robots. But it doesn't look like they plan to do that. Maybe they want her to keep working on these new bodies and are worried she'd stop if she knew, but... huh, that's just creepy.

[The Anarch]

Jun 23, 2017 7:19:06 GMT imaginaryfriend said:

"Appearing on our radar" suggests to me that the Court grand poobahs didn't really give a fig about the Love Boat incident beyond a raised collective eyebrow.

Well, y'know. Crazy kids and their wild parties. Whaddayagonnado?

[fish]

Jun 23, 2017 7:19:48 GMT aline said:

Hhm. I thought they might tell Kat that she's become some kind of prophet/god to the Court's robots. But it doesn't look like they plan to do that. Maybe they want her to keep working on these new bodies and are worried she'd stop if she knew, but... huh, that's just creepy.

I get the feeling that Arthur has been keeping his cult activities even from Juliette... this might just be pessimism on my part, but I don't think we've seen him share more than the mere existence of the robot-flesh-arm. He could have told her about it while omitting the 'philosophies' behind it. And that would make the cute Arthur+Juliette couple suddenly a lot more unbalanced.

Mmmm... I'll just hope this won't turn out to be the case!

[arf]

Jun 23, 2017 7:13:58 GMT fish said:

Oh no, Arthur is... loyal to the cult.

...will he be honored with a new religious office, right under the prophet Robot?

This whole cult thing makes me incredibly uneasy, ever since it first appeared. I guess I just don't like cults.

I'm not sure Arthur is loyal. That last panel isn't from Arthur's pov. It's Robot recalling when he first saw him. Also, recall the questioning? Could be an agitator.

As for the cult... it hasn't got to the 'crucible' phase yet (ie when things start to get crazy, and the moderates peel off, leaving the core crazies to get even crazier...)

[arf]

... also, here there be typos ("and this *led* me..."). Not sure how readily travelling Tom can fix.

[fish]

Jun 23, 2017 8:10:42 GMT arf said:

Jun 23, 2017 7:13:58 GMT fish said:

Oh no, Arthur is... loyal to the cult.

...will he be honored with a new religious office, right under the prophet Robot?

This whole cult thing makes me incredibly uneasy, ever since it first appeared. I guess I just don't like cults.

I'm not sure Arthur is loyal. That last panel isn't from Arthur's pov. It's Robot recalling when he first saw him. Also, recall the questioning? Could be an agitator.

As for the cult... it hasn't got to the 'crucible' phase yet (ie when things start to get crazy, and the moderates peel off, leaving the core crazies to get even crazier...)

I interpret the last three panels like this: Arthur had the chance to say "And this led me to discover Robot's recent activities and thus your work" but he purposefully omitted it. My instinct was to think "He's trying to show Robot that he is loyal to him and won't 'speak out of term' and risk the secrecy of the cult". And the last panel just shows how Robot understand that he has a loyal follower in Arthur. It also makes me think he kept it from Juliette as well.

I might be overanalysing, though.

[Jelly Jellybean]

The Court considering the Love Boat incident to be a minor concern and Arthur not saying anything about the Robot Cult is interesting, but what really stands out are the Seraphs in the third panel.  They look like they are introducing a Monty Python sketch.

[pyradonis]

What the Seraphs did on the cruise is a "minor concern"?

[imaginaryfriend]

Jun 23, 2017 10:50:53 GMT pyradonis said:

What the Seraphs did on the cruise is a "minor concern"?

Restraining students against their will, all the damage to the ship... I would think that any incident involving a torpedo fired in anger on a school outing would merit something more than the Seraphs being on the radar as a minor concern but I dunno. It is a comic. Maybe the interest of the school admin and/or the Court officialdom is being downplayed to make Kat more likely to go along with what they want?

[saardvark]

Jun 23, 2017 9:06:48 GMT fish said:

Jun 23, 2017 8:10:42 GMT arf said:

I'm not sure Arthur is loyal. That last panel isn't from Arthur's pov. It's Robot recalling when he first saw him. Also, recall the questioning? Could be an agitator.

As for the cult... it hasn't got to the 'crucible' phase yet (ie when things start to get crazy, and the moderates peel off, leaving the core crazies to get even crazier...)

I interpret the last three panels like this: Arthur had the chance to say "And this led me to discover Robot's recent activities and thus your work" but he purposefully omitted it. My instinct was to think "He's trying to show Robot that he is loyal to him and won't 'speak out of term' and risk the secrecy of the cult". And the last panel just shows how Robot understand that he has a loyal follower in Arthur. It also makes me think he kept it from Juliette as well.

I might be overanalysing, though.

But he could also be making it look like he wont "'speak out of term' and risk the secrecy of the cult", while actually having told Juliette everything.  That way he gains Robots trust and allows him to continue to be a mole in the robot-cult.  But I could be over-overanalyzing!  

[saardvark]

Jun 23, 2017 11:41:08 GMT imaginaryfriend said:

Jun 23, 2017 10:50:53 GMT pyradonis said:

What the Seraphs did on the cruise is a "minor concern"?

Restraining students against their will, all the damage to the ship... I would think that any incident involving a torpedo fired in anger on a school outing would merit something more than the Seraphs being on the radar as a minor concern but I dunno. It is a comic. Maybe the interest of the school admin and/or the Court officialdom is being downplayed to make Kat more likely to go along with what they want?

Is it possible the court doesnt know what really happened during the "Torn Seas incident"?  Everything happened in a Zimmy-ether-effect cloud - perhaps court sensors would be scrambled too.  No court personnel on board except seraphs, and they wouldn't tell.  Rey and Robot king army wouldn't tell (if told not to).  The ship had its CPU removed.  Lindsey could say Paz told her the ship went crazy and to rescue the kids, but she doesnt really know what happened *inside* the ship unless someone told her.  The kids would have to all hush up about it... which would be difficult to manage.  Rather a long shot, but.... ? 

ADD: The alternative is that the court is willing to take rather enormous risks with its students... for what?  Kat's new organ-robo-technology?  More understanding of ether powers? That is worth the lives of some hundred students? Including Kat, Annie, and the headmaster's own daughter?  Seems pretty ruthless and evil....

[todd]

Jun 23, 2017 12:15:35 GMT saardvark said:

Is it possible the court doesnt know what really happened during the "Torn Seas incident"?  Everything happened in a Zimmy-ether-effect cloud - perhaps court sensors would be scrambled too.  No court personnel on board except seraphs, and they wouldn't tell.  Rey and Robot king army wouldn't tell (if told not to).  The ship had its CPU removed.  Lindsey could say Paz told her the ship went crazy and to rescue the kids, but she doesnt really know what happened *inside* the ship unless someone told her.  The kids would have to all hush up about it... which would be difficult to manage.  Rather a long shot, but.... ? 

ADD: The alternative is that the court is willing to take rather enormous risks with its students... for what?  Kat's new organ-robo-technology?  More understanding of ether powers? That is worth the lives of some hundred students? Including Kat, Annie, and the headmaster's own daughter?  Seems pretty ruthless and evil....

Given how easily (many people here brought up that it felt like an anticlimax) the kids turned the tables on the Seraphs and the ship once the robot rescue party arrived, perhaps the Court leadership (if it was indeed aware of the incident) felt that the kids were in no danger and could get out of it with just the robots' help - that it might even strengthen them for their adult responsibilities as the next generation running the Court.

And many of the things that the Court leadership *has* done (murdering Jeanne, ensnaring Reynardine, etc.) are certainly just as bad. (Man trying to become God never seems to bring out the best in man.)

[ctso74]

I'm sticking with this being arranged by Robot, similar to the Love Boat incident. This, of course, may have a far better outcome.
Juliette and Arthur will get a body for him (Robot's prototype replacement), Kat will learn from mistakes and grow, then Robot will get a more advanced/perfect replacement body. Mind you, happy ending can make for boring stories. Who knows what errors Kat may make...

[pyradonis]

Jun 23, 2017 12:15:35 GMT saardvark said:

Jun 23, 2017 11:41:08 GMT imaginaryfriend said:

Restraining students against their will, all the damage to the ship... I would think that any incident involving a torpedo fired in anger on a school outing would merit something more than the Seraphs being on the radar as a minor concern but I dunno. It is a comic. Maybe the interest of the school admin and/or the Court officialdom is being downplayed to make Kat more likely to go along with what they want?

Is it possible the court doesnt know what really happened during the "Torn Seas incident"?  Everything happened in a Zimmy-ether-effect cloud - perhaps court sensors would be scrambled too.  No court personnel on board except seraphs, and they wouldn't tell.  Rey and Robot king army wouldn't tell (if told not to).  The ship had its CPU removed.  Lindsey could say Paz told her the ship went crazy and to rescue the kids, but she doesnt really know what happened *inside* the ship unless someone told her.  The kids would have to all hush up about it... which would be difficult to manage.  Rather a long shot, but.... ?

I can neither imagine that the Court does not have surveillance technology on board of its own cruise ship, nor that they did not wonder how in the world that half-formed whale body got into the ship.

[saardvark]

Jun 23, 2017 14:23:21 GMT pyradonis said:

Jun 23, 2017 12:15:35 GMT saardvark said:

Is it possible the court doesnt know what really happened during the "Torn Seas incident"?  Everything happened in a Zimmy-ether-effect cloud - perhaps court sensors would be scrambled too.  No court personnel on board except seraphs, and they wouldn't tell.  Rey and Robot king army wouldn't tell (if told not to).  The ship had its CPU removed.  Lindsey could say Paz told her the ship went crazy and to rescue the kids, but she doesnt really know what happened *inside* the ship unless someone told her.  The kids would have to all hush up about it... which would be difficult to manage.  Rather a long shot, but.... ?

I can neither imagine that the Court does not have surveillance technology on board of its own cruise ship, nor that they did not wonder how in the world that half-formed whale body got into the ship.

Oh, Im sure the court did have surveillance tech on board the ship, but I was positing that the "ether vortex" the seraphs cooked up scrambled the sensors.  
Alternately, the ship itself may have disabled the surveillance tech, so it could have Kat perform the conversion in secret.

As for the half-formed whale body, yes, that would be tough to explain! But the court would have known about the ether buoys and Zimmy's presence and surmised that some Zimmo-etheric madness had taken place(??)  The seraphs wouldn't want to say otherwise as it would incriminate them, and beyond them, only Kat and Paz really know what happened.
But it is a bit of wild speculation, I admit!

 

[fish]

I've been thinking about the Tic-Tocs again. Would it hypothetically be possible that they are somehow connected to the Shadow Men? Part of their surveillance system? We know they were/are watching Zimmy and they were also keeping watch on the bridge.

Well alright, we definitely know they are surveilling something for someone (probably of Court-origin). And the Shadow Men are just a newly introduced faction of the Court...

[saardvark]

Jun 23, 2017 16:19:13 GMT fish said:

I've been thinking about the Tic-Tocs again. Would it hypothetically be possible that they are somehow connected to the Shadow Men? Part of their surveillance system? We know they were/are watching Zimmy and they were also keeping watch on the bridge.

Well alright, we definitely know they are surveilling something for someone (probably of Court-origin). And the Shadow Men are just a newly introduced faction of the Court...

In that case, the shadow men are keeping their Tic-toc secrets from the Court itself!  Or part of it anyway - Anya says that the Court had always wanted to capture and study one and didn't know where they came from:
www.gunnerkrigg.com/?p=277

[mturtle7]

Jun 23, 2017 16:56:11 GMT saardvark said:

Jun 23, 2017 16:19:13 GMT fish said:

I've been thinking about the Tic-Tocs again. Would it hypothetically be possible that they are somehow connected to the Shadow Men? Part of their surveillance system? We know they were/are watching Zimmy and they were also keeping watch on the bridge.

Well alright, we definitely know they are surveilling something for someone (probably of Court-origin). And the Shadow Men are just a newly introduced faction of the Court...

In that case, the shadow men are keeping their Tic-toc secrets from the Court itself!  Or part of it anyway - Anya says that the Court had always wanted to capture and study one and didn't know where they came from:
www.gunnerkrigg.com/?p=277

To be fair, different parts of the GC keeping secrets from each other is pretty much normal. Everything's compartmentalized there, I think. On the other hand, we also know the Tic-tocs existed even before the foundation of the Court

[fish]

Jun 23, 2017 19:01:12 GMT mturtle7 said:

Jun 23, 2017 16:56:11 GMT saardvark said:

In that case, the shadow men are keeping their Tic-toc secrets from the Court itself!  Or part of it anyway - Anya says that the Court had always wanted to capture and study one and didn't know where they came from:
www.gunnerkrigg.com/?p=277

To be fair, different parts of the GC keeping secrets from each other is pretty much normal. Everything's compartmentalized there, I think. On the other hand, we also know the Tic-tocs existed even before the foundation of the Court

Ah, I always forget that little tidbit. It's like a wrench in all my Tic-Toc theories (but quite helpful for the mecha goddess theory).

I plead: the robots are an unreliable source!

[ih8pkmn]

What the hell are the Shadow Men looking into that the Seraph units taking over a cruise ship, capturing Zimmy, forcing her to turn the ship into Birminghell, and trying to make Kat turn the ship into organic matter a Minor Concern? Does the Court not know about that? You think that Lindsey would have told them.

[saardvark]

Jun 23, 2017 19:01:12 GMT mturtle7 said:

 On the other hand, we also know the Tic-tocs existed even before the foundation of the Court

Hmm, I sorta remember that too now that you mention it... how/when did we learn that?

[saardvark]

Jun 23, 2017 12:45:21 GMT todd said:

Jun 23, 2017 12:15:35 GMT saardvark said:

Is it possible the court doesnt know what really happened during the "Torn Seas incident"?  Everything happened in a Zimmy-ether-effect cloud - perhaps court sensors would be scrambled too.  No court personnel on board except seraphs, and they wouldn't tell.  Rey and Robot king army wouldn't tell (if told not to).  The ship had its CPU removed.  Lindsey could say Paz told her the ship went crazy and to rescue the kids, but she doesnt really know what happened *inside* the ship unless someone told her.  The kids would have to all hush up about it... which would be difficult to manage.  Rather a long shot, but.... ? 

ADD: The alternative is that the court is willing to take rather enormous risks with its students... for what?  Kat's new organ-robo-technology?  More understanding of ether powers? That is worth the lives of some hundred students? Including Kat, Annie, and the headmaster's own daughter?  Seems pretty ruthless and evil....

Given how easily (many people here brought up that it felt like an anticlimax) the kids turned the tables on the Seraphs and the ship once the robot rescue party arrived, perhaps the Court leadership (if it was indeed aware of the incident) felt that the kids were in no danger and could get out of it with just the robots' help - that it might even strengthen them for their adult responsibilities as the next generation running the Court.

And many of the things that the Court leadership *has* done (murdering Jeanne, ensnaring Reynardine, etc.) are certainly just as bad. (Man trying to become God never seems to bring out the best in man.)

I don't know... still seems awful risky... recall that they almost couldn't get a message out to reach Rey and call for rescue. Lots of things could have gone wrong... what if Jenny hadn't come?  what if the rescue didn't come armed with torpedoes(!)?  what if the seraphs found Gamma first?  what if Kat finished the Whale-conversion first?  The Court would have to be really ruthless to risk an entire year of students like that.

Unless there never was any risk?  The whole of Torn Sea seems to have been a plan of Robot's to get Kat interested in "robot evolution" once again:  

www.gunnerkrigg.com/?p=1451

Its unlikely Robot would ever have risked Kat or Annie (or by extension, any of the others), so maybe the whole scenario was somewhat "rigged to fail" before anyone got hurt.  No matter what the students did, somehow they would eventually be successful and escape harm (perhaps with some help from behind the scenes).  The ship was maybe acting, or maybe the seraphs were just using its (real) obsession for their own ends.   Maybe the Court had nothing to do with it...?  (this might have been speculated on before...if so, sorry for repeat...)

[Jelly Jellybean]

Jun 23, 2017 20:54:56 GMT saardvark said:

Jun 23, 2017 19:01:12 GMT mturtle7 said:

 On the other hand, we also know the Tic-tocs existed even before the foundation of the Court

Hmm, I sorta remember that too now that you mention it... how/when did we learn that?

Annie asked the Bots about the tic-toc symbol on their banner and they said the tic-tocs are said to be older than the Court itself.

[todd]

Jun 23, 2017 21:20:10 GMT saardvark said:

I don't know... still seems awful risky... recall that they almost couldn't get a message out to reach Rey and call for rescue. Lots of things could have gone wrong... what if Jenny hadn't come?  what if the rescue didn't come armed with torpedoes(!)?  what if the seraphs found Gamma first?  what if Kat finished the Whale-conversion first?  The Court would have to be really ruthless to risk an entire year of students like that.

Unless there never was any risk?  The whole of Torn Sea seems to have been a plan of Robot's to get Kat interested in "robot evolution" once again:  

www.gunnerkrigg.com/?p=1451

Its unlikely Robot would ever have risked Kat or Annie (or by extension, any of the others), so maybe the whole scenario was somewhat "rigged to fail" before anyone got hurt.  No matter what the students did, somehow they would eventually be successful and escape harm (perhaps with some help from behind the scenes).  The ship was maybe acting, or maybe the seraphs were just using its (real) obsession for their own ends.   Maybe the Court had nothing to do with it...?  (this might have been speculated on before...if so, sorry for repeat...)

That's a good point about Robot - though, of course, it could be a case of "the trouble with artificial intelligence is it's artificial". (Certainly a much simpler solution would have been to try talkig to Kat, rather than come up with sme complex and potentially dangerous scheme.) Robot and the Seraphs might genuinely have failed to realize the potential dangers involved.

Of course, the whole thing being an act would explain the whole "it was way too easy once the robot expedition arrived" business.

As for whether the Court would risk a year's worth of students - it is possible that the higher-ups would see it as necessary to get the information and knowledge that they wanted, that they're so obsessed with their quest for knowledge that everything else, even human life, is of lesser importance in their eyes. (I just had a vision of them drawing up an "If something goes wrong" plan of holding an impressive memorial service, compensation for the grieving parents and assurances that "Your children gave their lives for the sake of humanity's progress to greatness, the grand march into the beyond" - or even "We secretly took genetic samples from them before they boarded the ship, and can simply grow clones of them to replace them".)

Incidentally, one thought on the last panel. At first I thought that Arthur was projecting an image of Robot saying "It was worth it" for Kat to see. On a rereading, I realized that he was remembering that scene instead. Almost a pity; for a moment, it looked as if Kat was about to find out about the consequences of those careless words around the robots. But she may still discover that....

[mordekai]

Robot is going to have Arthur and Juliette murdered so they don't tell Kat about the cult, isn't he?

But on the other hand, if he does so, the next Shadow Man tasked with spying on Kat may tell the ruling body of the Court about her experiments...

Quite the dilemma...

[pyradonis]

Jun 23, 2017 14:46:05 GMT saardvark said:

Jun 23, 2017 14:23:21 GMT pyradonis said:

I can neither imagine that the Court does not have surveillance technology on board of its own cruise ship, nor that they did not wonder how in the world that half-formed whale body got into the ship.

Oh, Im sure the court did have surveillance tech on board the ship, but I was positing that the "ether vortex" the seraphs cooked up scrambled the sensors.  
Alternately, the ship itself may have disabled the surveillance tech, so it could have Kat perform the conversion in secret.

Oh, sorry, I totally missed that sentence of your post. Valid theory!