[1817] By the Court

[Corvo]

Career counseling time?

[agasa]

I love him more than ever. Such a sweet heart.

[snowflake]

Apr 12, 2017 7:32:33 GMT agasa said:

I love him more than ever. Such a sweet heart.

Wolfdad is great in this scene, but I hope he gets more information out of Annie.

[theonethatgotaway]

That's... that's fucking sweet... God, this comic just gave me diabetes.

[bedinsis]

"I hope their plans do not stop you from visiting me."

Two reactions:

1. Awww.
2. You want to be visited by someone who only appears at your death?

[pyradonis]

Apr 12, 2017 9:20:52 GMT bedinsis said:

2. You want to be visited by someone who only appears at your death?

Something has to die nearby, not necessarily yourself. If Annie were to become Psychopomp for all Gillitie Woods creatures, for example, she could say hi anytime Ysengrin goes fishing.

[saardvark]

Apr 12, 2017 10:18:20 GMT pyradonis said:

Apr 12, 2017 9:20:52 GMT bedinsis said:

2. You want to be visited by someone who only appears at your death?

Something has to die nearby, not necessarily yourself. If Annie were to become Psychopomp for all Gillitie Woods creatures, for example, she could say hi anytime Ysengrin goes fishing.

seems, though, so far at least, that the Pomps have been using Annie for the special "tough cases":

(1) her mom... when there was nothing left for them to do it; 

(2) Mort, by his special request (a confused ghost); and

(3) Jeanne, who was so dangerous, she'd taken out several career Pomps.  

So I think it's unlikely they will assign her to something so mundane as the forest animals.

[casualobserver]

Whatever she has to do with the Psychopomps wouldn't preclude her being around doing other things, would it? I would have suspected she could visit whomever, whenever.

[mu695]

Apr 12, 2017 11:51:47 GMT saardvark said:

So I think its unlikely they will assign her to something so mundane as the forest animals.

What's to say that they're mundane? They're certainly much weirder, and therefore potentially much more dangerous, than the stuff that we've seen in ordinary civilization.

[Daedalus]

Awwwww.

Wolfdad = best dad.

[ohthatone]

I had always assumed that whatever plans the pomps had for her would be after her death, then I remembered the whole soul passing on to the next generation thing.
So what happens to a fire elemental if they don't reproduce? Do they go into the ether like everyone else? This generational soul jumping thing makes me think they might not. Maybe that happens to preserve a soul and keep it from flickering out entirely? Obviously pulling thoughts from out my rear, especially since there is still the question of if there was no soul for Annie to take at her mom's death, then what was she doing?
Anyway, all that is so I can actually ask: is Annie actually beholden to the pomps during her lifetime because there would be nothing for them after she dies whether or not she has a kid?

[saardvark]

Apr 12, 2017 13:24:52 GMT mu695 said:

Apr 12, 2017 11:51:47 GMT saardvark said:

So I think its unlikely they will assign her to something so mundane as the forest animals.

What's to say that they're mundane? They're certainly much weirder, and therefore potentially much more dangerous, than the stuff that we've seen in ordinary civilization.

yeah, perhaps mundane is the wrong word.  Maybe "normal" or "routine" (for animals) is closer to what I meant.  Some of the animals of the forest are odd, to be sure, but they have always been like that, and there are many of them; there is probably a Pomp already in place taking care of them.  Annie so far seems to have been used selectively for difficult, non-standard cases that the Pomps themselves have problems doing.

[faiiry]

I'm not really a fan of the fourth panel. I couldn't tell you why, but I just don't like looking at it. Something really seems "off." Also the bottom panel seems to be missing a comma.

But I'm not entirely full of criticism. Overall I like this page. It's definitely a far cry from the events of chapter 39. And it raises a whole lot of questions for me. For example, has Annie's job started yet? If not, when? Will she get an official memo from that vampire guy?

And those are the absolute least of my questions. I also have a whole lot of queries about how you become a psychopomp. How did Surma, a regular (mostly) human, end up hanging out with several incarnations of the Grim Reaper? And how did that lead to her, just a regular human, becoming the Grim Reaper? And why are the guides so insistent that Antimony should follow that same path - is it a generational thing, or a genetic thing? Why are the psychopomps 99% gods and monsters of legend, and 1% random human beings? And when Annie becomes a psychopomp, how is it decided what souls are in her "jurisdiction"? Will she be the psychopomp for Gunnerkrigg Court, or for all the atheists of the area, or what??? I need an explanation of how all this works. The more questions I ask, the more pop into my head.

[philistine21]

Apr 12, 2017 13:37:21 GMT faiiry said:

Will she get an official memo from that vampire guy?

I think that's unlikely, the vampire guy seemed unconnected to the guides
See: www.gunnerkrigg.com/?p=1339

[saardvark]

Apr 12, 2017 13:37:21 GMT faiiry said:

I'm not really a fan of the fourth panel. I couldn't tell you why, but I just don't like looking at it. Something really seems "off." Also the bottom panel seems to be missing a comma.

But I'm not entirely full of criticism. Overall I like this page. It's definitely a far cry from the events of chapter 39. And it raises a whole lot of questions for me. For example, has Annie's job started yet? If not, when? Will she get an official memo from that vampire guy?

And those are the absolute least of my questions. I also have a whole lot of queries about how you become a psychopomp. How did Surma, a regular (mostly) human, end up hanging out with several incarnations of the Grim Reaper? And how did that lead to her, just a regular human, becoming the Grim Reaper? And why are the guides so insistent that Antimony should follow that same path - is it a generational thing, or a genetic thing? Why are the psychopomps 99% gods and monsters of legend, and 1% random human beings? And when Annie becomes a psychopomp, how is it decided what souls are in her "jurisdiction"? Will she be the psychopomp for Gunnerkrigg Court, or for all the atheists of the area, or what??? I need an explanation of how all this works. The more questions I ask, the more pop into my head.

Except for Surma and Annie, all the Pomps seem to be legendary-demigod sorts.  In a sense, Surma and Annie are too, at least thru their fire elemental natures.  But Annie & her mum are unusual in being half human as well; they seem special cases.  So far, Annie has done "special case" pomping... I wonder what sorts of cases Surma had jurisdiction over?

[warrl]

Apr 12, 2017 11:51:47 GMT saardvark said:

(3) Jeanne, who was so dangerous, she'd taken out several career Pomps.

Creating vacancies that they need to find someone to fill.

Apr 12, 2017 14:21:03 GMT saardvark said:

Except for Surma and Annie, all the Pomps seem to be legendary-demigod sorts.

But it could be that they became legendary-demigod sorts because they were psychopomps. Rather than the other way around. As for their forms, probably most of the people who see them and survive the experience are losing someone loved, so aren't in the best emotional state to make good witnesses - and human belief shapes ethereal beings.

[luxanima]

Apr 12, 2017 9:20:52 GMT bedinsis said:

"I hope their plans do not stop you from visiting me."

Two reactions:

1. Awww.
2. You want to be visited by someone who only appears at your death?

Four (or three?) reactions:

1. Awww.
2. You want to be visited by someone who only appears at your death?
3. He loves her more than life itself.
4. Back 1., but up to 11.

[zaferion]

Papa Ys getting ready to cut a bitch in panel 3

Apr 12, 2017 13:37:21 GMT faiiry said:

I'm not really a fan of the fourth panel. I couldn't tell you why, but I just don't like looking at it. Something really seems "off." Also the bottom panel seems to be missing a comma.

But I'm not entirely full of criticism. Overall I like this page. It's definitely a far cry from the events of chapter 39. And it raises a whole lot of questions for me. For example, has Annie's job started yet? If not, when? Will she get an official memo from that vampire guy?

And those are the absolute least of my questions. I also have a whole lot of queries about how you become a psychopomp. How did Surma, a regular (mostly) human, end up hanging out with several incarnations of the Grim Reaper? And how did that lead to her, just a regular human, becoming the Grim Reaper? And why are the guides so insistent that Antimony should follow that same path - is it a generational thing, or a genetic thing? Why are the psychopomps 99% gods and monsters of legend, and 1% random human beings? And when Annie becomes a psychopomp, how is it decided what souls are in her "jurisdiction"? Will she be the psychopomp for Gunnerkrigg Court, or for all the atheists of the area, or what??? I need an explanation of how all this works. The more questions I ask, the more pop into my head.

I think Surma and Annie would be used for cases that require a more meddlesome human element. The psychopomps can't directly interfere in the world of the living, but Surma and Annie (definitely Annie) can. Like with Jeanne. Psychopomps that tried to collect her died immediately, so they needed Annie to drum up a plan and work it out. Or the boy in the hospital. The pomps were all too freaky looking to calm the child down, so they needed Surma (but got Annie) to go in there and talk him down. The pomps seem kind of passive by their very nature, but a human/half-human can be more proactive about it. Like, the actual capital P Psychopomps will still handle the brunt of the work, but Annie will be their special trump card.

[fia]

I admire that Tom managed to pull this loveable teddy-wolf out of the traditional Renard and Ysengrim stories. He is so earnest! Still very square, naturally, and with an odd rationalization about things, but so pure of heart. Weird to think he has that deranged barking mad fool in there somewhere.

[mturtle7]

Apr 12, 2017 11:51:47 GMT saardvark said:

seems, though, so far at least, that the Pomps have been using Annie for the special "tough cases":

(1) her mom... when there was nothing left for them to do it; 

(2) Mort, by his special request (a confused ghost); and

(3) Jeanne, who was so dangerous, she'd taken out several career Pomps. 

You're forgetting Martin; when there was a dispute over who should get to claim him, and they couldn't him to come out and choose. Apparently there's something about Surma and Annie's bloodline which naturally helps with these sort of disputes - which fits in with this "special empathy with etheric beings" Jones was talking about.

Of these four cases, it seems like the Pomps only really needed her for Martin and Jeanne - her mom was simply because none of them could be bothered to do it themselves, and like you said, Mort was a special request. Maybe it's something specific about ghosts not willing to come along with any of the Pomps? I'm still not sure how that connects to the fire elemental bloodline, though.

[OGRuddawg]

With Annie and Ysengrin's bond, I wonder what kind of relationship Surma had with the old wolf. I'm assuming this was before Coyote gave old Ys the power of gardening based on the reactions of the Court in Chapter 13.

Is there any WildSpec over Ysengrin's past position/positions in this whole game of chess???

Also, I love it when Ysengrin shows his softer side.  It just seems so much more meaningful when affection comes from a grouchy old wolf.

[saardvark]

Apr 12, 2017 17:57:55 GMT luxanima said:

Apr 12, 2017 9:20:52 GMT bedinsis said:

"I hope their plans do not stop you from visiting me."

Two reactions:

1. Awww.
2. You want to be visited by someone who only appears at your death?

Four (or three?) reactions:

1. Awww.
2. You want to be visited by someone who only appears at your death?
3. He loves her more than life itself.
4. Back 1., but up to 11.

as for (2), Im sure Ys and Annie both hope she will have  life outside of her pomping work, so that her visits don't have to be ill omens.  Surma certainly seemed  to have an outside life; perhaps half-human Pomps only work part-time?  Special union rules for non-legendary Pomps?

[saardvark]

Apr 12, 2017 20:26:48 GMT mturtle7 said:

Apr 12, 2017 11:51:47 GMT saardvark said:

seems, though, so far at least, that the Pomps have been using Annie for the special "tough cases":

(1) her mom... when there was nothing left for them to do it; 

(2) Mort, by his special request (a confused ghost); and

(3) Jeanne, who was so dangerous, she'd taken out several career Pomps. 

You're forgetting Martin; when there was a dispute over who should get to claim him, and they couldn't him to come out and choose. Apparently there's something about Surma and Annie's bloodline which naturally helps with these sort of disputes - which fits in with this "special empathy with etheric beings" Jones was talking about.

Of these four cases, it seems like the Pomps only really needed her for Martin and Jeanne - her mom was simply because none of them could be bothered to do it themselves, and like you said, Mort was a special request. Maybe it's something specific about ghosts not willing to come along with any of the Pomps? I'm still not sure how that connects to the fire elemental bloodline, though.

You're right, I did forget Martin, but then in that case, Annie just resolved the dispute; one of the full-blood Pomps still eventually "took him over".
But yeah, that *was* another "tough case" she helped resolve... 

[Igniz]

1. The way I see it, Annie has agreed to become an agent of Psychopomp Co., doing their bidding as she previously has done a few times in the past, the difference being that, now, she will do so whenever and wherever they want her to, without questioning and without arguing on Annie's part - she's not turning into a psychopomp herself.

2. More than with Surma and Annie's bloodline, I think it has to do with a couple of things:

1. Their "hybrid" nature. Fire elementals are etheric beings, so being half-breed / having one inside would make these individuals naturally attuned with etheric, paranormal and supernatural matters, thus rendering them ideal candidates for certain tasks and jobs such as medium or psychopomp avatar, given their "in-betweener" status as mortal + etheric. In other words:

   Apr 12, 2017 18:45:50 GMT zaferion said:

   The pomps seem kind of passive by their very nature, but a living being can be more proactive about it.

2. The psychopomps know Annie since she was very little and, given their previous "work" association with Surma (whom they most probably met during her tenure as Court Medium), as well as their "Uatu the Watcher" nature, it's only logical that they chose her to fulfill the role they signed her with.

Of course, given that there are several things that Tom has left unexplained as of yet and that the plot is still ongoing (I feel that, definitely, there's something dark and sinister about the death and return of Superman Surma), one can suppose things such as, for example, the Shinigami Club having different plans from those Annie (and us) is expecting, and Annie's pledge is in reality part of a plan to save her from a terrible fate.

[arf]

Apr 12, 2017 13:37:21 GMT faiiry said:

I'm not really a fan of the fourth panel. I couldn't tell you why, but I just don't like looking at it. Something really seems "off." Also the bottom panel seems to be missing a comma.

Might it be the shadowing around Annie's nose?

Last panel: I think we've seen that lake before.

[saardvark]

Apr 12, 2017 16:32:55 GMT warrl said:

Apr 12, 2017 14:21:03 GMT saardvark said:

Except for Surma and Annie, all the Pomps seem to be legendary-demigod sorts.

But it could be that they became legendary-demigod sorts because they were psychopomps. Rather than the other way around. As for their forms, probably most of the people who see them and survive the experience are losing someone loved, so aren't in the best emotional state to make good witnesses - and human belief shapes ethereal beings.

It's not a lot to go on, but Mort, at least, doesnt see Annie as anything other than herself when being led into the ether.  It seems unlikely that Dhoo (or Ketrak), for example, is actually human, or that Annie will evolve towards something like them.  Unless Dhoo maybe was once a dog, and Ketrak a normal bug, and they've sort of "legend-ized" into their current form after millennia of Pomping(?)  Interesting idea... not sure I'm entirely sold tho....

[OGRuddawg]

Apr 13, 2017 4:44:33 GMT arf said:

Apr 12, 2017 13:37:21 GMT faiiry said:

I'm not really a fan of the fourth panel. I couldn't tell you why, but I just don't like looking at it. Something really seems "off." Also the bottom panel seems to be missing a comma.

Might it be the shadowing around Annie's nose?

Last panel: I think we've seen that lake before.

I don't think this pond has enough sheer cliff face to be Jumper's Pool. There are several lakes and ponds in the forest, but I don't think there have been a return to any of them in comic. I would love to have a map of known areas in both the Court and Forest. Both would be enthralling to study

[speedwell]

The common thread between the three people Annie has "taken over" seems to be that they were all stuck between a dead and living state. Surma didn't die so much as she passed her essence along; what was there to take over? Maybe nothing; maybe Annie needed to visualise her mother going over to find the way herself, and to feel like she could be a separate being from her mother. Mort was dead but lived as a ghost. Jeanne was dead but lived as an artificially trapped spirit. Perhaps the fact that Annie herself is part human and part etheric being gives her the necessary foothold in both realms that other psychopomps don't and can't have, as well as giving her her medium skills.

[faiiry]

While we're on the subject of Annie and Surma's "situation" as fire elemental descendants, I have a sort of interesting theory on it. I don't think that Surma's literal soul was passed on to Annie, because if that were so, Annie would be the same person as Surma, while she is clearly more like her father. I think it's more like, the fire elemental spirit and the human have a symbiotic relationship, wherein the human body hosts the fire elemental and the fire elemental gives the human life; when the child is born, the fire elemental slowly transfers to the younger, stronger host. I don't know if that's accurate and it doesn't completely fit, but it's something to think about.

[fia]

Apr 13, 2017 14:58:30 GMT faiiry said:

While we're on the subject of Annie and Surma's "situation" as fire elemental descendants, I have a sort of interesting theory on it. I don't think that Surma's literal soul was passed on to Annie, because if that were so, Annie would be the same person as Surma, while she is clearly more like her father. I think it's more like, the fire elemental spirit and the human have a symbiotic relationship, wherein the human body hosts the fire elemental and the fire elemental gives the human life; when the child is born, the fire elemental slowly transfers to the younger, stronger host. I don't know if that's accurate and it doesn't completely fit, but it's something to think about.

Well, it really depends on Tom's metaphysical commitments. I teach some of this in my philosophy class.

If we take a literal Cartesian theory of identity, or one in a Christian or even possibly Buddhist or Hindu tradition (take with grain of salt I am no expert on these), then possibly you are right.

According to John Locke, however, personal identity is irrespective of soul and body. If we were to believe in immortal souls and reincarnation, Locke says, we can't say the soul is the marker of personal identity. Otherwise we and our past selves would all be the "same person", but we, he thinks, would not be the same person just because we share a soul. So Locke concludes that the marker of personal identity is in fact our conscious experience, and the thing that joins us to ourselves through time is our memories of past experiences.

Thus: even if Annie and Surma do share a soul, or a life-force, or a whatever the fire elemental is, on a Lockean theory, because they do not share memories or conscious experience, they are different people. I suspect this is probably the view the comic has portrayed or assumed, as indeed part of Annie's struggle is how to distinguish herself from or understand her relationship to each of her parents and their preferences and character traits. And it fits in with that nice thing Donnie says to Annie at the end of Microsat 5.