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Post by Per on Apr 5, 2017 7:12:32 GMT
LinkyI guess I'll create my first page thread if everyone else is going to take ten minutes doing it? Ysengrin loves that guy = Eglamore.
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Post by feraldog on Apr 5, 2017 7:21:54 GMT
So is the art change and word choice supposed to be Coyote's influence as in brainwashing, or something Coyote actually did to him? Both?
(because that last bit DEFINITELY sounds like something Coyote would say)
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Post by philman on Apr 5, 2017 7:30:09 GMT
So is the art change and word choice supposed to be Coyote's influence as in brainwashing, or something Coyote actually did to him? Both? (because that last bit DEFINITELY sounds like something Coyote would say) I was thinking Coyote's swirly eyes in the last panel look a bit like that which is commonly used to show hypnotism or brainwashing. |
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Post by puntino on Apr 5, 2017 7:44:42 GMT
I truly hope Ysengrin is not losing his sanity as the panel style degrades into abstract stuff.
It's been a while since we last saw his flaws, so that could always come back to (literally) bite Annie.
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Post by arf on Apr 5, 2017 8:07:15 GMT
So is the art change and word choice supposed to be Coyote's influence as in brainwashing, or something Coyote actually did to him? Both? (because that last bit DEFINITELY sounds like something Coyote would say) Tom uses style changes like this to indicate a different setting eg memories. Abstract styles usually mean a philosophy lesson. |
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Post by snipertom on Apr 5, 2017 9:51:02 GMT
Annie is fishing/talking with a point in mind about Ys relationship with Coy being NQR and Ys isn't biting
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Post by Jelly Jellybean on Apr 5, 2017 10:02:36 GMT
Annie is fishing/talking with a point in mind about Ys relationship with Coy being NQR and Ys isn't biting Just like Kat trying to talk to Annie about Annie's father. |
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Post by keef on Apr 5, 2017 11:21:42 GMT
So it's better to be Coyote's dog than a free wolf?
Also: chapter icon
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Post by theonethatgotaway on Apr 5, 2017 11:25:51 GMT
So, actually, his purpose in life, what he WANTS, his aspiration, is to be the very best right hand to Coyoto? Ok, cool, so that's settled, as long as it is what he wants, I guess he's happy. Bye! End chapter.
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Post by bedinsis on Apr 5, 2017 11:29:22 GMT
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Post by casualobserver on Apr 5, 2017 12:30:42 GMT
I'm not meaning to be snarky but this seems to me to have a lot of similarities to most any and all of the world's religions.
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Post by faiiry on Apr 5, 2017 13:19:06 GMT
"You're happy to live your life for someone else? Not yourself?"
This has all but confirmed to me that Annie is asking these questions because she's concerned about becoming a psychopomp. Delivering the deceased to the ether is doubtlessly a stressful and sometimes traumatic job that's performed for the benefit of the decedents rather than yourself. You'd have to be pretty selfless to take up the mantle - especially as just a regular (mostly) human, and especially especially as a teenager.
EDIT: Just realized the chapter icon is in this page. That's not really important, I'm just super proud of myself for finally noticing it after looking over the page a mere fifteen times.
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Post by ohthatone on Apr 5, 2017 13:42:53 GMT
Life before Coyote was a Disney princess "I want more" song waiting to happen.
AND DON'T CALL HIM SHIRLEY
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Post by Trillium on Apr 5, 2017 14:33:48 GMT
I'm not meaning to be snarky but this seems to me to have a lot of similarities to most any and all of the world's religions. You are not being snarky. Coyote is a god. Following and serving a God is the hallmark of religion. But Coyote is not a kind or loving god. He is self centered, capricious and does not play well with others. It has amused Coyote to give Ysengrin a gift that is slowly crippling the old wolf behind the facade of immence strength speed and flexibility. Coyote enjoys your attention when he wants it and to be amused more that mindless obedience and worship. He doesn't really care about Ysengrin. He wants Reynard back probably because he is not a sycophant. Also The Court has cut off Coyote's access to Reynard. Nothing is so alluring as that which you cannot have. |
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Post by davidm on Apr 5, 2017 15:05:46 GMT
I'm not meaning to be snarky but this seems to me to have a lot of similarities to most any and all of the world's religions. It also has lots in common with some people who fall in love with their mates, parents with their children, etc. (Easy for example to find songs on radio dedicated to lover or children with similar words) With atheists can sometimes flip other way with "survival of fittest", selfish gene, rape being good way to perpetuate your genetics, etc. Or it can flip to "a star trek like brotherhood of man" which can sometimes end badly eg Pot Pot, Mao, Stalin, Lenin. Every side can see their side as better, eg 2 beatles songs "Imagine" (atheists), and "Let it be" (catholics). Loving everyone around you or someone specific like a mate or kids or king or queen can be seen as "unselfish good". Chivalry had the "good white knight in shining armor" who was sometimes devoted to a maiden who may be someone elses wife/never marry, such as a queen, which was promoted as good thing. One thing I just noticed... coyote is seen as bad because of his brainwashing to get this result, while at same time many atheists make claim that can't be an "all powerful" god because evil exists in world and god could make that impossible (which likely would require similar type of brainwashing). |
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Post by Zox Tomana on Apr 5, 2017 15:11:21 GMT
I'm not meaning to be snarky but this seems to me to have a lot of similarities to most any and all of the world's religions. Yup. It's very familiar, though in this case it's a lot more sinister. At least with most religions you're supposed to enter with an informed willingness. With this there's a big degree of "ummmmm" because we happen to know Coyote is manipulating Papa Ys. There's also an element of weirdness for me because, while Coyote is a greatly powerful being, he isn't the kind of being I would recognize as being a god. I do note that this is not the first time the comic has touched on the idea of someone serving someone other than themselves. And here you might draw a line between this chapter and the last. In the last chapter, Red's ultimate point was that Annie is ultimately, only self-serving. Here, and in with the resurrected Robot, we have examples of beings that instead devote their lives to someone other than themselves. Although, with both there's a bit of programming. The robots were literally created to serve humans. Ysengrin is having his mind manipulated by having memories taken away from him. Not a great sales pitch for a lifestyle that has long been held up and the ideal (that is, the other-centered lifestyle). |
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Post by davidm on Apr 5, 2017 15:24:07 GMT
"My fellow Americans, ask not what your country can do for you, ask what you can do for your country.' - John F. Kennedy
You can find similar calls for devotion in many national anthems, eg "God save the queen", about devotion to a figurehead who today doesn't need to do more than Paris Hilton or Kim Kardashian... (tabloid news famous for being famous or born in a position)
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Post by ctso74 on Apr 5, 2017 16:40:04 GMT
I'm guessing this is more about her deal with the psychopomps, and less to do with Coyote/Ysengrin.
It will be nice to hear more about the deal between Coyote and Ysengrin, though. Is there a "good?" reason for Coyote's manipulation of Y? When Y got his new power, what price did he pay? I don't think it was physical weakness and devotion. I'm betting the devotion was already there, and the weakness came after. Maybe, Coyote tricked Ysengrin into eating a forest god. Two personalities struggling could seem like madness, from the outside.
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Post by warrl on Apr 5, 2017 17:54:26 GMT
Coyote is a god. Following and serving a God is the hallmark of religion. MOST religions. Like quite a lot of (but not all) organized-religion leaders. And the more organized a religion is, the more likely it is to have been taken over (or originally founded) by such leaders and to present a very-similar god. That's not exactly unheard-of in organized religions either, although usually it only cripples the followers' ability to resist the demands of the leadership. |
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Post by fia on Apr 5, 2017 21:17:25 GMT
what? I don't see it? Halp |
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Post by keef on Apr 5, 2017 22:50:34 GMT
What Ysengrin isn't mentioning is that he is not your everyday run-of-the-mill wolf. He has been around for centuries, being a medieval myth about a proud, stupid, violent and cruel creature. And in most stories he is nothing more than Renard's punching bag. So to become a "real" god's punching bag is a promotion of sorts. I assume (hope) this part of the story will be dealt with later. what? I don't see it? Halp Between Hunted and Slept  |
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Post by csj on Apr 6, 2017 2:32:02 GMT
meanwhile coyote be like
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Post by snipertom on Apr 6, 2017 12:24:47 GMT
Wow I suddenly notice in panel 4 that Frankenbot is faaaaaabulous  |
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Post by phantaskippy on Apr 6, 2017 16:01:45 GMT
We have to remember that Ysengrin is a wolf. A pack animal. He may have been an Alpha at some point but he certainly isn't now. Coyote is his Alpha and the whole forest is his pack.
Because of that social structure he can move freely and not fear or fight for his own space. He is loyal to Coyote because Coyote is his Alpha, and Coyote's strength is the strength of the pack, and his strength.
He gets angry when Coyote says things that make Coyote seem weak. Because for canine packs the strength of the Alpha is everything. I think we are seeing the dog side of Ysengrin, the side that is strong only because of the Alpha.
We also look down on Coyote a lot, but Coyote cares for Ysengrin, he has elevated him from what looks to be an old and feeble dog that was losing its mind to what we know and love as Ysengrin. But Coyote clearly doesn't share Ysengrin's view of Coyote, he will not fully accept the position Ysengrin assigns him. This, to me, looks like a complex relationship where one willingly subverts himself to the other, but in doing so creates a prison for both. Coyote cares for Ysengrin, but he will not be caged, not even as a god.
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Post by mturtle7 on Apr 6, 2017 23:25:21 GMT
We have to remember that Ysengrin is a wolf. A pack animal. He may have been an Alpha at some point but he certainly isn't now. Coyote is his Alpha and the whole forest is his pack. Because of that social structure he can move freely and not fear or fight for his own space. He is loyal to Coyote because Coyote is his Alpha, and Coyote's strength is the strength of the pack, and his strength. He gets angry when Coyote says things that make Coyote seem weak. Because for canine packs the strength of the Alpha is everything. I think we are seeing the dog side of Ysengrin, the side that is strong only because of the Alpha. A pretty good point, but one thing I couldn't help thinking about was that Ysengrin was never just a wolf - he's also a medieval legend. From what I know, he was always the big, nasty, authority figure to Renard's trickster. And after he came to the Forest, he became the proud general of an army of monsters. It takes more than pack instinct to change the great Ysengrin into a mere servant of Coyote. |
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Post by Zox Tomana on Apr 7, 2017 0:48:59 GMT
We also look down on Coyote a lot, but Coyote cares for Ysengrin, he has elevated him from what looks to be an old and feeble dog that was losing its mind to what we know and love as Ysengrin. But Coyote clearly doesn't share Ysengrin's view of Coyote, he will not fully accept the position Ysengrin assigns him. This, to me, looks like a complex relationship where one willingly subverts himself to the other, but in doing so creates a prison for both. Coyote cares for Ysengrin, but he will not be caged, not even as a god. Mmm, did he really change hi from an old and feeble dog? Old, sure, but apparently immortal. Feeble? I should hardly think so. Everything we know thus far would indicate that the withering of Ysengrin's body has to do with his tree-body, not his age. Coyote has given him power, but that power has come at a price. Coyote also eats Ysengrin's memories..... and does so against Ysengrin's will.... so... I feel perfectly justified in looking down on Coyote =P |
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Post by youwiththeface on Apr 7, 2017 3:27:39 GMT
Oh my God, it's the fairies. I hadn't realized it because I hadn't re-read this story in a while but....the robot's ideas about work ties into a theme that comes up over and over again, but most recently with the fairies, the work they do for the court, and their names. |
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Post by CoyoteReborn on Apr 7, 2017 7:21:17 GMT
Coyote has given him power, but that power has come at a price. Coyote also eats Ysengrin's memories..... and does so against Ysengrin's will.... so... I feel perfectly justified in looking down on Coyote =P I'm kinda an asshole. I admit it, yes yes! ...Though a bit more amoral and inhuman than truly "evil"  But don't you dare look down on Me. |
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Post by crater on Apr 7, 2017 7:55:05 GMT
So is the art change and word choice supposed to be Coyote's influence as in brainwashing, or something Coyote actually did to him? Both? (because that last bit DEFINITELY sounds like something Coyote would say) hmmm maybe its like the last time we saw all the ysrs, the real him is not important and changing |
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