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Post by Daedalus on Mar 15, 2017 7:00:25 GMT
..........watungrateful fairy jerk *mumble [various cursing] mumble*
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Post by erunion on Mar 15, 2017 7:01:48 GMT
What a happy, natural and carefree way to end this! Wonderful! Joyful! Super pleasant!
Bye now!
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Post by Daedalus on Mar 15, 2017 7:05:01 GMT
No but in all seriousness this makes no sense. Either Tom's going to go somewhere plot-relevant with this (like he did with the Tony chapters), or it's just sloppy storytelling.
And I know the fairies see the world differently than humans, and Red's always been a jerk (it's her defining character trait), but seriously! This is obnoxious in the flatness of the excuses that Red makes.
Perhaps the direction Tom's going is that Red is worried that Annie will take Ayilu's affections or something?
Just, for god's sake, please let there not be another year of Annie moping.
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Post by Zox Tomana on Mar 15, 2017 7:08:37 GMT
This whole chapter was quite frustrating. Period. So many possible objections to almost every statement Red made. I suppose this leaves the next chapter for those points to be addressed? But right now I'm just kinda pissed.
Annie needs to take others into account. This is evident. But Parley was personally insistent on doing this. Kat volunteered her time and the scene brought up where Annie was speaking was (in my memory) Annie encouraging Kat. And who here is gonna say Andrew would ever let Parley go down there without him and his ability to protect her? "Give others a choice." Bull. Shit. "Be more reflective about the fact that someone almost died." Absolutely.
The only people possibly lacking in full knowledge of the risks here are Ayilu and Red.
I think that, if anything, this chapter serves to showcase Annie's continued deep, personal insecurities. Because almost all of Red's arguments rang easily hollow to me.
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Post by Daedalus on Mar 15, 2017 7:10:22 GMT
This whole chapter was quite frustrating. Period. So many possible objections to almost every statement Red made. I suppose this leaves the next chapter for those points to be addressed? But right now I'm just kinda pissed. Annie needs to take others into account. This is evident. But Parley was personally insistent on doing this. Kat volunteered her time and the scene brought up where Annie was speaking was (in my memory) Annie encouraging Kat. And who here is gonna say Andrew would ever let Parley go down there without him and his ability to protect her? "Give others a choice." Bull. Shit. "Be more reflective about the fact that someone almost died." Absolutely. The only people possibly lacking in full knowledge of the risks here are Ayilu and Red. I think that, if anything, this chapter serves to showcase Annie's continued deep, personal insecurities. Because almost all of Red's arguments rang easily hollow to me. My thoughts exactly. I just hope that, with the benefit of hindsight, this shallowness reflects on Annie/Red's mental state, not Tom's capacity as a writer. This is similar to how I felt after the chapter with Hetty, and the chapter with Tony. The latter was justified (mostly). The former was not. So we're 1-and-1 so far...this is the tiebreaker! Heh. |
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Post by zbeeblebrox on Mar 15, 2017 7:11:39 GMT
Red's manifesto is pretty concise. I'll give her that The only people possibly lacking in full knowledge of the risks here are Ayilu and Red. And what do you think matters most to Ayilu and Red? Sure, Annie could have defended herself better, but tell me - why would it change a thing? Oh Kat had her own motives, Smitty was a willing participant? Funny, none of those people are Ayilu are they. The fact of the matter is, because Annie stayed quiet, Red walked away from this with a lot of unfired ammunition. A pretty amicable parting, given what could have gone down, honestly. |
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Post by youwiththeface on Mar 15, 2017 7:13:11 GMT
I mean, this is sort of an inverse of Red's saying Annie has an 'it's all about me' attitude. It assumes that Annie can control everyone around her and none of them have any autonomy at all. It assumes everything really is all about her and nobody else ever had any say.
Not to mention that all this still feels super contrived.
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Post by snowflake on Mar 15, 2017 7:15:35 GMT
I'm just going to quote this, from last page's thread, because it was somewhat overlooked, despite being a powerful source of context: If I may...   The Chinese Red Guards. They had a reputation for publicly humiliating their victims by means of (far fetched) criticism. Must be a coincidence. Thank you, arkadi and keef! |
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Post by gpvos on Mar 15, 2017 7:17:23 GMT
Also, why did Ayilu suddenly become so calm? This has been a very confusing chapter.
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Post by snipertom on Mar 15, 2017 7:19:28 GMT
I'm just going to quote this, from last page's thread, because it was somewhat overlooked, despite being a powerful source of context: The Chinese Red Guards. They had a reputation for publicly humiliating their victims by means of (far fetched) criticism. Must be a coincidence. Thank you, arkadi and keef! A very good pick. Also Red talking about other people being selfish after the way she treats everyone around her is just hypocritical. But this does remind me of the behaviour of high school girls quite a lot. Extremely bitchy and judgemental. |
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Cori
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Post by Cori on Mar 15, 2017 7:20:24 GMT
Honestly, I hope we never see Red again. She was always annoying. This chapter has been nothing but frustrating.
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Post by Nepycros on Mar 15, 2017 7:21:17 GMT
It really kinda went off the rails about halfway through, and wasn't organic. I agree.
But regardless, Annie will be crushed emotionally. Contrived or not, a character as socially dependent as Annie will turn to self-loathing.
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Post by avurai on Mar 15, 2017 7:22:30 GMT
I was a little on the fence before, but believe it or not, based on Ayilu's doting on Red in the final panel, it's become very clear to me that Ayilu definitely would not have done this without the name-offer and is very happy that Red stood up for her. I know it's the common viewpoint that Red is out of line here, but I do believe that there are many sides to leadership. Annie is an effective leader; she's great at convincing people to do what she wants. That doesn't mean she's not being manipulative in order to do so. This sense of (dare I say) entitlement, the idea that other people should bend to her wishes or needs, is a flaw she's displayed for a long time, and just because she smiles more often and acts far more amicably doesn't mean this pattern has stopped.
There are many different perspectives on this, I understand. From many a viewpoint, Ayilu knew exactly what she was getting into in exchange for a name... But the fact that Annie decided to use that as leverage in the first place is incredibly sketchy and I do think it was necessary to call her on it. Especially when it was to get a friend into a life-or-death situation. Also understand, Annie and Smitty are mediums, Parley is an apprentice to Eglamore, and Kat has been on Annie's missions since day one. Ayilu is just a transfer student with an inherent magical ability Annie found useful. In terms of all her arguments, Red might be out of line. In terms of emotional backlash, I don't think she is at all.
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Post by snowflake on Mar 15, 2017 7:28:06 GMT
I actually would have enjoyed it if Annie had pulled a fire spike and spilled the truth to Ayilu about her name just like she spilled the truth to Renard about Surma when cornered by criticism. Not sure if not doing so means she's more mature now, or just more sedate and beaten down.  |
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Post by youwiththeface on Mar 15, 2017 7:30:00 GMT
Red's manifesto is pretty concise. I'll give her that The only people possibly lacking in full knowledge of the risks here are Ayilu and Red. And what do you think matters most to Ayilu and Red? Sure, Annie could have defended herself better, but tell me - why would it change a thing? Oh Kat had her own motives, Smitty was a willing participant? Funny, none of those people are Ayilu are they. The fact of the matter is, because Annie stayed quiet, Red walked away from this with a lot of unfired ammunition. A pretty amicable parting, given what could have gone down, honestly. Actually, the faeries probably had more of an idea of what was waiting for them than Smitty did. They were there, after all, when Annie first met Jeanne and received her ethereal cut. Observe. |
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Post by aline on Mar 15, 2017 7:32:12 GMT
Am I the only one who thinks the Court symbol on Red's cap is suspicious?
Someone said earlier that the Court may be somehow influencing her. I didn't think it was likely at the time, but now I'm not so sure.
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Post by rafk on Mar 15, 2017 7:32:56 GMT
During the aftermath of the Jeanne battle I thought the community was pretty united on how reckless the kids were and how Annie acted in the immediate aftermath, surprised how many people here are upset at Red for putting this all in Annie's face.
She might not be expressing it perfectly, and Parley and Smitty also deserve this bollocking (Kat too, but Kat is kind of a doormat for Annie quite a lot and that would be mean), but that's not to say Annie doesn't need to have all this raised to her, including her use of the name to manipulate the faeries. It doesn't matter that they have some responsibility too.
Somehow I suspect Annie will see Red and Ayilu again, though.
As for people complaining about this coming from Red:
1) The reason for her epiphany is both well explained and believable.
2) You're as guilty as Annie of thinking of Red as a 2 dimensional comic relief character there to suit Annie, rather than a being capable of deeper thoughts.
Great chapter.
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Post by Chancellor on Mar 15, 2017 7:34:09 GMT
I haven't been this miffed since Anthony first came back.
Granted, I'm not nearly as upset as back then, but in this case I have more of a desire to reach through my computer screen and wring Red's communist little neck while educating her on all the reasons this entire exchange has been bullshit
Feeling is mutual, never talk to Annie again
And your little Blue haired floozy too
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Cori
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Post by Cori on Mar 15, 2017 7:36:48 GMT
2) You're as guilty as Annie of thinking of Red as a 2 dimensional comic relief character there to suit Annie, rather than a being capable of deeper thoughts. We've never been given any reason to see Red as anything less than an annoying, selfish jerk. Every time she's shown up in this comic that's what she's been. |
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Post by ih8pkmn on Mar 15, 2017 7:36:57 GMT
We get it, Tom, Annie is a fuck-up. You don't have to reinforce that point for NINE CHAPTERS STRAIGHT. (I'm not counting Chapter 55 because that was literally two pages.) The entirety of Volume 6 is literally nothing but filler and angst for Annie.
This has turned into "The Continuing Adventures of Annie's Future Therapy Bills". I'm actually starting to really doubt Tom's quality as a writer; since Tony came back, the assumption seems to be "constantly beating down on a character and stripping them down to nothing without any recovery or redemption in sight is good writing".
We want to root for Annie, and seeing shit like this happen to her chapter after chapter has just. Gotten. Old.
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Post by Chancellor on Mar 15, 2017 7:38:50 GMT
During the aftermath of the Jeanne battle I thought the community was pretty united on how reckless the kids were and how Annie acted in the immediate aftermath, surprised how many people here are upset at Red for putting this all in Annie's face. She might not be expressing it perfectly, and Parley and Smitty also deserve this bollocking (Kat too, but Kat is kind of a doormat for Annie quite a lot and that would be mean), but that's not to say Annie doesn't need to have all this raised to her, including her use of the name to manipulate the faeries. It doesn't matter that they have some responsibility too. Somehow I suspect Annie will see Red and Ayilu again, though. As for people complaining about this coming from Red: 1) The reason for her epiphany is both well explained and believable. 2) You're as guilty as Annie of thinking of Red as a 2 dimensional comic relief character there to suit Annie, rather than a being capable of deeper thoughts. Great chapter. Now the situation was imperfect, rushed, and in many ways very poorly handled, but here and now that's overshadowed by the extremely flawed and short sighted criticisms Red is giving to Annie while also completely dodging any personal responsibility for going with them and allowing her waifu to come with. Deeper thoughts are not evidenced by thoughtless finger pointing, and so far that's all Ref has done. |
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Post by Zox Tomana on Mar 15, 2017 7:40:03 GMT
Red's manifesto is pretty concise. I'll give her that The only people possibly lacking in full knowledge of the risks here are Ayilu and Red. And what do you think matters most to Ayilu and Red? Sure, Annie could have defended herself better, but tell me - why would it change a thing? Oh Kat had her own motives, Smitty was a willing participant? Funny, none of those people are Ayilu are they. The fact of the matter is, because Annie stayed quiet, Red walked away from this with a lot of unfired ammunition. A pretty amicable parting, given what could have gone down, honestly. Yes, but instead of saying "You did not properly inform us of the extent of the danger and we feel used, what the hell you p.o.s.?" Red has said "You are a horrible human being, you used all your friends for selfish purposes, you sorry p.o.s." My frustration is this: Red has a very valid point when it comes to the fact that everyone's life was in danger and Annie is rather blasé about that; Red is totally right that Annie traded something she felt was of little value for something of far greater value than Ayilu or Red would likely have been willing to pay; but Red touches on that and moves on to fire off a half dozen, half-baked shots that serve only to denigrate Annie while Annie just stands there feeling bad about herself. As others have said: this feels contrived. For me, mainly because most of Red's points ring hollow. Red only cares about herself and Ayilu. That's fine. That is acceptable. Zox Tomana is totally fine with this situation. Red not focusing on that immediate context and instead deciding to imply that Annie took away any and all autonomy from everyone around her as regards Jeanne? That Annie is so callous that she just "stood around and talked" while Andrew bled out? No. This is not okay. Everyone had some reason they were there, some level of pre-involvement *except* the fairies. And Annie didn't just stand there shooting the breeze with Muut, she bargained for Andrew's life. Purposeful ignorance of these facts is frustrating. She wants Annie out of her life? Alright. Just say "I feel used and that my friend was used, and I think you put my life and the life of the woman I love in danger without properly telling us just how much danger we were in. I don't care about anything else. You should reflect on how you treated us, and I want you to stay away from us." If Red is gonna suddenly be all serious and reflective, I don't think it is too much to ask that she also be reasonable about it. Tom has shown himself to be a capable writer. There is a purpose here. I don't doubt that, and I understand the in-universe motivations. I'm just frustrated. |
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Post by zbeeblebrox on Mar 15, 2017 7:40:55 GMT
^^^^ Zox, is this really a criticism of Red you're making, or a criticism of Tom? Red's manifesto is pretty concise. I'll give her that And what do you think matters most to Ayilu and Red? Sure, Annie could have defended herself better, but tell me - why would it change a thing? Oh Kat had her own motives, Smitty was a willing participant? Funny, none of those people are Ayilu are they. The fact of the matter is, because Annie stayed quiet, Red walked away from this with a lot of unfired ammunition. A pretty amicable parting, given what could have gone down, honestly. Actually, the faeries probably had more of an idea of what was waiting for them than Smitty did. They were there, after all, when Annie first met Jeanne and received her ethereal cut. Observe. Uh yeah, so? That doesn't mean she's their problem. OR that they had a clue how powerful she was, just that she had etheric abilities. |
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Post by bedinsis on Mar 15, 2017 7:41:19 GMT
Did I call it? Although, with fairy logic what did Annie do for them? In their first encounter she refused to perform one task simple to her yet highly meaningful for the fairies(killing them) and in this chapter she only did one task simple to her yet highly meaningful for the fairies(naming one of them) after they had helped in a highly dangerous task, and even then, RED was the person that actually did the naming. I mean, that's something Red must be able to do seven days a week to her classmates without them risking their lives against vengeful rage ghosts. EDIT: Oh, right, she did help find a hair salon. |
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Post by avurai on Mar 15, 2017 7:46:22 GMT
To be honest, I think this is the moment I've been waiting for. Annie's never been great at self-improvement. Every time she's been dealt a blow, she falls into a self-loathing spiral. I think Tom is being very intentional with this. Annie seems far more put together here than in the past. This might be the first time she hears criticism and actually confronts it head on instead of running from it or going catatonic.
Looking back on the trajectory the comic has taken recently, we might be seeing Annie finally take the next step in her life. From fire-elemental losing it back with Renard, to going emotionally-blank again with Anthony, to hopefully something much more productive with Red and Ayilu. Rule of threes.
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Post by imaginaryfriend on Mar 15, 2017 7:49:08 GMT
Genteel forum-goers, Ayilu's reaction on this page makes perfect sense if you view Antimony as a potential rival for Red's attention. Remember Ayilu's facial expressions on this page and the following page? Red brings it up herself in this very chapter. In retrospect I think that (plus the verbal abuse Red was flinging at her) conflicting with the aborted confession is why she went nutz after seeing Red hanging off Antimony here. Sure, Red's reasoning doesn't track completely but the chapter seems consistent to me. I was expecting this end result, or even this plus a punch in the face. I was wrong about Ayilu's reaction. I figured she'd rein Red in a bit but considering how they like a good fight I should have known better. |
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Post by Chancellor on Mar 15, 2017 7:49:30 GMT
I don't get why people think she's being completely negative. Red doesn't seem to consider the events that caused her to realize how much she cared about Ayilu trrribly negative. Like, she was super scared... but she doesn't look like she's angry about it. She doesn't seem too positive on it, either, but she isn't making a mad or sad face at Annie. She's probably going to thank her and tell her to never do something like that again. Red has always been concerned with the end result more than the process, so it doesn't make too much sense that she'd get mad at Annie over this. Any more than usual anyway. Abooooooout that... |
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Post by KMar on Mar 15, 2017 7:50:20 GMT
You are all missing the important bit.
Uniform with a cap is evidently even better than a hair that goes up.
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Post by edzepp on Mar 15, 2017 7:55:16 GMT
Woof, not many good feelings around here huh.
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Post by antiyonder on Mar 15, 2017 8:00:02 GMT
Red's manifesto is pretty concise. I'll give her that And what do you think matters most to Ayilu and Red? Sure, Annie could have defended herself better, but tell me - why would it change a thing? Oh Kat had her own motives, Smitty was a willing participant? Funny, none of those people are Ayilu are they. The fact of the matter is, because Annie stayed quiet, Red walked away from this with a lot of unfired ammunition. A pretty amicable parting, given what could have gone down, honestly. Yes, but instead of saying "You did not properly inform us of the extent of the danger and we feel used, what the hell you p.o.s.?" Red has said "You are a horrible human being, you used all your friends for selfish purposes, you sorry p.o.s." My frustration is this: Red has a very valid point when it comes to the fact that everyone's life was in danger and Annie is rather blasé about that; Red is totally right that Annie traded something she felt was of little value for something of far greater value than Ayilu or Red would likely have been willing to pay; but Red touches on that and moves on to fire off a half dozen, half-baked shots that serve only to denigrate Annie while Annie just stands there feeling bad about herself. As others have said: this feels contrived. For me, mainly because most of Red's points ring hollow. Red only cares about herself and Ayilu. That's fine. That is acceptable. Zox Tomana is totally fine with this situation. Red not focusing on that immediate context and instead deciding to imply that Annie took away any and all autonomy from everyone around her as regards Jeanne? That Annie is so callous that she just "stood around and talked" while Andrew bled out? No. This is not okay. Everyone had some reason they were there, some level of pre-involvement *except* the fairies. And Annie didn't just stand there shooting the breeze with Muut, she bargained for Andrew's life. Purposeful ignorance of these facts is frustrating. She wants Annie out of her life? Alright. Just say "I feel used and that my friend was used, and I think you put my life and the life of the woman I love in danger without properly telling us just how much danger we were in. I don't care about anything else. You should reflect on how you treated us, and I want you to stay away from us." If Red is gonna suddenly be all serious and reflective, I don't think it is too much to ask that she also be reasonable about it. Exactly. Even if one has a valid point, omitting or (conveniently) overlooking certain facts is something one does when they know that they aren't entirely right, but want to act as if they are. If you have confidence in your stance, you shouldn't have to fear the truth (finding or acknowledging it), even if some of the truth means that your stance isn't 100 percent correct. |
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