[1802] You figured you were getting a good deal...

[Nepycros]

Red's really tearing her a new one, and I like it. About time she faced emotional consequences rather than have physical consequences she can just brush off for "working out in the end."

[edzepp]

Man, I'm making the 'Oh' sounds you make when you're watching someone get decked hard in the face.

[artezzatrigger]

Reds getting very real right now and I love it

[edzepp]

Shit status: Getting Real.

[pasko]

Uncomfortable truth is uncomfortable.

[turion]

Oh, that guy. Yeahh right. The guy who nearly died. The same guy who I gave up my career plans for and became a psychopomp (of sorts)?

[Nepycros]

Mar 8, 2017 8:07:01 GMT artezzatrigger said:

Reds getting very real right now and I love it

She's very easily taking my spot as best girl for the webcomic. I mean goddamn, the art used to depict her is gorgeous on top of all the third degree smackdown she's giving the fire elemental. Nobody else has ever really reprimanded Annie and looked so good while doing so (Jones being expressionless ruins the vibe for me in the last talking to she got).

[arf]

Oho! Is *this* why Red gave her friend a rubbish name?

(Red's argument doesn't cover the commitment the others had to the project but, to the fairies, it's valid enough)

[rafk]

I kind of figured this would eventually come from Jones. Getting it from Red not only stuns Annie, but probably tells the audience we've been underestimating the character. I know I was. Comic relief is easy to pigeon hole, it's a sign of how good GC is that comic relief is not just comic relief.


Oh, and prediction: Annie will fire back (no pun intended) that she already did suffer a consequence out of this, and reveals whatever it is she gave up to the psychopomps.

[kayback]

Meh. Not feeling it. Red seems a little too pat.

[snowflake]

Red wound herself up from entirely deserved accusations to entirely unfair ones.

"You left him bleeding to death with a knife in his chest"

It... Sounds like Red did not see what Annie (and we) saw? We can argue about responsibility until we're blue in the face, but "leave him" is something Annie objectively did not do.

It's time for Annie to reveal the nature of her deal with Muut, I think.

Also, Ayilu has walked up to Red, and I don't think she's appreciating the framing that makes her not responsible for her actions.

[Lightice]

Wow, who would've believed that this comes from the same person who just gave us "big dumb ugly butt face"?

And even Ayilu's starting to listen. Wonder how she's going to react to what Red just had to say...

[youwiththeface]

It's kind of hard for me to take the whole Smitty thing seriously at this point, honestly, now that it's become clear the whole reason he got stabbed and Parley didn't BIP him off to a hospital the first chance she got was so Annie could get shackled to the psychopomps. It all just seems too contrived for me to blame anyone but Tom.

[aline]

Mar 8, 2017 8:15:35 GMT snowflake said:

Red wound herself up from entirely deserved accusations to entirely unfair ones.

yeah. Aside from anything else, Annie's friends all knew what they were getting into, and they were there for their own reasons. They put themselves in danger together (Annie could have been killed too). They weren't manipulated into doing it like Ayilu was.

[zbeeblebrox]

HA! Seems Red has taken just as much of a dim view of the whole Jeanne debacle as I did. Hear that, Annie? That's the sound of you gettin' TOLD

[speedwell]

I must be late to the party; I am horrified to realise that Annie promised Ayilu a name even though she wasn't supposed to have one yet, and as payment. That's not how it works. And given how important it is to the fairies, in their shoes I'd feel about the same as if my friend set me up with my crush in exchange for a favor and I found out the crush was just doing it out of obligation as well. That's not how it's supposed to work. That's crazy-making. I'd feel angry and cheated too (assuming that's how Ayilu actually does feel). I wonder why Red went along with it.

[youwiththeface]

Mar 8, 2017 9:10:09 GMT speedwell said:

I must be late to the party; I am horrified to realise that Annie promised Ayilu a name even though she wasn't supposed to have one yet, and as payment. That's not how it works. And given how important it is to the fairies, in their shoes I'd feel about the same as if my friend set me up with my crush in exchange for a favor and I found out the crush was just doing it out of obligation as well. That's not how it's supposed to work. That's crazy-making. I'd feel angry and cheated too (assuming that's how Ayilu actually does feel). I wonder why Red went along with it.

To be fair, it seems that the school just tells them that so they'll stay and work for them up to a certain point. Even Annie taking advantage of Ayilu still gives her a better deal than she would've gotten from the court. 

[saardvark]

Mar 8, 2017 8:31:11 GMT aline said:

Mar 8, 2017 8:15:35 GMT snowflake said:

Red wound herself up from entirely deserved accusations to entirely unfair ones.

yeah. Aside from anything else, Annie's friends all knew what they were getting into, and they were there for their own reasons. They put themselves in danger together (Annie could have been killed too). They weren't manipulated into doing it like Ayilu was.

unfair accusations, true.... but perhaps not unfair based on the limited knowledge Red has.  She doesn't know of Annie's pomp commitment ... may not have even seen the pomps.  Still, she is spot on in her accusation of Annie's taking advantage of "the Naming" factor to get Ayilu to help.  That should sting Annie a bit into some new self-awareness, and maybe self-improvement.

[imaginaryfriend]

Mar 8, 2017 9:10:09 GMT speedwell said:

I wonder why Red went along with it.

Youth? Impulsiveness? The lure of getting Blue Ayilu a name?

Though to be fair, as Red continues on it does sound like she's bordering on revisionist history.

Mar 8, 2017 9:10:09 GMT speedwell said:

I must be late to the party; I am horrified to realise that Annie promised Ayilu a name even though she wasn't supposed to have one yet, and as payment. That's not how it works. And given how important it is to the fairies, in their shoes I'd feel about the same as if my friend set me up with my crush in exchange for a favor and I found out the crush was just doing it out of obligation as well. That's not how it's supposed to work.

I can't tell if I agree with that or not because I can't come up with an analogy that I like. Partly that's because I don't know enough about fairy naming in the wild. Is [snuffle] typical or an exception? Who usually names them? Their peers? Friends? Their parent(s)? The age cohort above them, or elders (do they even have elders)? Is it based on a trait or event, or just a label that sounds good (like Bugsy)? And is the reason the Court doesn't give names to transfers right away because they don't want to attract faeries/other beings who're just in it to make a name for themselves?

Guessing that it's usually peers who name a wild fairy, and that it's like getting full membership in a group or gang when they get their names, I think what Red is accusing Antimony of is baiting them into her plans and into danger in a way that defeats the purpose of the name Ayilu got. Or in other words that Antimony by her actions showed that she wasn't acting like a friend/peer/team player and therefore the name is a fraud.

I'm also guessing Ayilu will rein in Red a bit, just going by the expression on her face. Red is being a little insulting to Ayilu in a passing sort of way as well as (perhaps) crapping all over her new name.

[ariestinak]

Wow, I really didn't expect Red to have this much insight into the whole matter. And it seems the others didn't see Annie's bargain with the psychopomps. Isn't it odd? I thought fairies should at least have been able to see them.

Well, at least Ayilu has stopped acting like she's possessed by a demon or something.

[bedinsis]

I am reminded of this page and quote:

You put many people in danger today. Not just your friends, but everyone at the court, because you let your emotions get the better of you.

Although... What should Annie have done? She knew it was dangerous, since she had first-hand experience of being struck by Jeanne. Yet of the people involved in getting Jeanne to her final rest, was anyone there not due to wanting to fulfil that task? Annie is empathetic enough that I believe Jeanne's fate was one she thought she should do something about(in fact she was angry with Muut once she found out that making Jeanne pass on was a task assigned to her, yet she still worked on it); Parley was quite committed to have the task performed once she had experienced Jeanne's memories. Kat and Andrew I don't know if they were as committed, but I assume they hung on due to Annie and Parley.

The only clear exceptions were the former fairies, already covered by Red on this page.

The best I can say is that they should've prepared better; imagine if Kat had not brought along that thing that allowed her to free the Green guy; then that would probably have meant the end of all the major characters.

That or outright refused some of her friends' participation/given them tasks that were less dangerous.

[imaginaryfriend]

Mar 8, 2017 10:30:02 GMT bedinsis said:

I am reminded of this page and quote:

You put many people in danger today. Not just your friends, but everyone at the court, because you let your emotions get the better of you.

Although... What should Annie have done?

Even if Antimony didn't trust the Court or her father to help Jeanne, as opposed to covering things up or using Jeanne for experiments or destroying her, there were Jones and the Donlans. Jones would have made an excellent distraction.  There were probably other people in the Wood and the Court she could have asked for help. She could have sought out people with resources and possibly more experience with hostile ghosts. Maybe she could even have used diplomatic channels to insist that the Court do something. She could have anonymously spread the info about Jeanne to make sure the Court couldn't cover things up and create sympathy for future action.  And probably other stuff that I haven't thought of.  

But...

Doing that, particularly asking an adult for help, would have meant giving up some or all control over the situation. They might have told her to wait, or done things in a way she didn't like. As long as Antimony and her crew kept the info tight they ran the show. And she probably believed they had it in the bag when Ayilu's power was able to hold Jeanne.

[Jelly Jellybean]

Mar 8, 2017 8:12:06 GMT rafk said:

I kind of figured this would eventually come from Jones. Getting it from Red not only stuns Annie, but probably tells the audience we've been underestimating the character. I know I was. Comic relief is easy to pigeon hole, it's a sign of how good GC is that comic relief is not just comic relief.


Oh, and prediction: Annie will fire back (no pun intended) that she already did suffer a consequence out of this, and reveals whatever it is she gave up to the psychopomps.

I would like to see Annie explain the price she paid to save Smitty, but I don't think Annie is going to open up to Red even to defend herself. Annie may even pull a full Anthony.

Mar 8, 2017 9:52:35 GMT imaginaryfriend said:

...
I'm also guessing Ayilu will rein in Red a bit, just going by the expression on her face. Red is being a little insulting to Ayilu in a passing sort of way as well as (perhaps) crapping all over her new name.

In Red's defense, she didn't stop Ayilu from helping Annie. Red said that she went along so she could be there when Ayilu got her name, but it makes more sense that Red went along to watch Ayilu's back.

[aline]

Mar 8, 2017 10:30:02 GMT bedinsis said:

I am reminded of this page and quote:

You put many people in danger today. Not just your friends, but everyone at the court, because you let your emotions get the better of you.

Yeah, that one always had me confused to be honest. Did Annie in fact endangered "everyone at the Court" by running into the forest? Or did all those maybe-well-meaning adults endanger Annie by not telling her about a fundamental part of her identity that might also kill her? What a responsible attitude to let her discover that by accident and then complain that she was emotional and reckless.

I know at that point Tom was trying to underline the impulsive parts of Annie's personality, but that line never felt right to me.

[saardvark]

Mar 8, 2017 12:18:03 GMT aline said:

Mar 8, 2017 10:30:02 GMT bedinsis said:

I am reminded of this page and quote:

You put many people in danger today. Not just your friends, but everyone at the court, because you let your emotions get the better of you.

Yeah, that one always had me confused to be honest. Did Annie in fact endangered "everyone at the Court" by running into the forest? Or did all those maybe-well-meaning adults endanger Annie by not telling her about a fundamental part of her identity that might also kill her? What a responsible attitude to let her discover that by accident and then complain that she was emotional and reckless.

I know at that point Tom was trying to underline the impulsive parts of Annie's personality, but that line never felt right to me.

was Jones suggesting that Coyote might have viewed Annie's sudden arrival as an unwanted invasion, and possibly used it to retaliate against the Court? ...and been within his rights to do so?  Jones perhaps did not realize the extent of Coyote's fondness for our fire-head, making it unlikely that he take offense at her sudden uninvited appearance...

[Earin]

Mar 8, 2017 9:52:35 GMT imaginaryfriend said:

Mar 8, 2017 9:10:09 GMT speedwell said:

I wonder why Red went along with it.

Youth? Impulsiveness? The lure of getting Blue Ayilu a name?

Though to be fair, as Red continues on it does sound like she's bordering on revisionist history.

Mar 8, 2017 9:10:09 GMT speedwell said:

I must be late to the party; I am horrified to realise that Annie promised Ayilu a name even though she wasn't supposed to have one yet, and as payment. That's not how it works. And given how important it is to the fairies, in their shoes I'd feel about the same as if my friend set me up with my crush in exchange for a favor and I found out the crush was just doing it out of obligation as well. That's not how it's supposed to work.

I can't tell if I agree with that or not because I can't come up with an analogy that I like. Partly that's because I don't know enough about fairy naming in the wild. Is [snuffle] typical or an exception? Who usually names them? Their peers? Friends? Their parent(s)? The age cohort above them, or elders (do they even have elders)? Is it based on a trait or event, or just a label that sounds good (like Bugsy)? And is the reason the Court doesn't give names to transfers right away because they don't want to attract faeries/other beings who're just in it to make a name for themselves?

Guessing that it's usually peers who name a wild fairy, and that it's like getting full membership in a group or gang when they get their names, I think what Red is accusing Antimony of is baiting them into her plans and into danger in a way that defeats the purpose of the name Ayilu got. Or in other words that Antimony by her actions showed that she wasn't acting like a friend/peer/team player and therefore the name is a fraud.

I'm also guessing Ayilu will rein in Red a bit, just going by the expression on her face. Red is being a little insulting to Ayilu in a passing sort of way as well as (perhaps) crapping all over her new name.

IAWTC: there's just too much we don't know about both the cultural and etheric limitations of fairy naming.

In the Ars Magica setting, for example, fairies are literally incapable of certain kinds of creativity: they can't even give birth without human aid.

Whereas here, Red seems to have named Ayilu herself. Is that legit? Are there going to be consequences if people find out fairies can name other fairies?

[aline]

Mar 8, 2017 12:32:19 GMT Earin said:

Whereas here, Red seems to have named Ayilu herself. Is that legit? Are there going to be consequences if people find out fairies can name other fairies?

You know I'd really like it if Red took her reflections further and apply her logic to the way the Court treats them. When it comes to the hollow fairies, the Court seems to be making a lot of the rules...
gunnerkrigg.com/?p=1472

Why do they need the fairies? In their classroom they seem to be working rather than learning. They're computing data every day, without break, and their main reward is a name. Something valuable to them but worthless to humans, as Red said. And something they even take away if they already have it. gunnerkrigg.com/?p=1377

I'd like to see a Red who thinks about all these things in the same way she thinks about Annie's actions.

[Per]

I'm just going to read a few more pages before declaring that Red is a poopyhead shifting the thematic goalposts for a moral superiority goal.

[todd]

Mar 8, 2017 8:25:07 GMT youwiththeface said:

It's kind of hard for me to take the whole Smitty thing seriously at this point, honestly, now that it's become clear the whole reason he got stabbed and Parley didn't BIP him off to a hospital the first chance she got was so Annie could get shackled to the psychopomps. It all just seems too contrived for me to blame anyone but Tom.

As I recall, the theory was that Parley was in too shocked a state to teleport. Granted, Tom should have probably made that clearer in the text. (Perhaps a beta-reader could have pointed that out to him; remember, he's writing this entirely on his own.)

[Zox Tomana]

"Left him bleeding to death with a knife in his chest!" <-- gotta say, I do think this is the line that leads us into what Annie has agreed to with the 'pomps. And while Red's point about Annie getting a good deal on paying with a name is more or less valid depending on how much they stressed the danger beforehand, this bit about Andrew and the others is not. They volunteered a long time ago, and Parley had first hand experience with just how dangerous Jeanne is. I hope Tom has Annie explain both of those points: the others' volunteering with full knowledge of the danger, and that she did not "leave Andrew."

Mar 8, 2017 12:29:48 GMT saardvark said:

Mar 8, 2017 12:18:03 GMT aline said:

Yeah, that one always had me confused to be honest. Did Annie in fact endangered "everyone at the Court" by running into the forest? Or did all those maybe-well-meaning adults endanger Annie by not telling her about a fundamental part of her identity that might also kill her? What a responsible attitude to let her discover that by accident and then complain that she was emotional and reckless.

I know at that point Tom was trying to underline the impulsive parts of Annie's personality, but that line never felt right to me.

was Jones suggesting that Coyote might have viewed Annie's sudden arrival as an unwanted invasion, and possibly used it to retaliate against the Court? ...and been within his rights to do so?  Jones perhaps did not realize the extent of Coyote's fondness for our fire-head, making it unlikely that he take offense at her sudden uninvited appearance...

Not Coyote.... But perhaps Ysengrin?