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Post by Daedalus on Nov 21, 2016 8:01:28 GMT
Well. Let's do this scene again.My pet theory right now is that Annie strikes out against Kat (maybe she remembers how she was deceived by the Seed Beesmuth?) and attacks at Kat's face. Kat currently lacks the crack from Zimmy's vision...
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Post by gpvos on Nov 21, 2016 8:04:53 GMT
You gotta be careful when you're a god.
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Post by fish on Nov 21, 2016 8:05:16 GMT
Wow, Kat's nonsense-filter is really powerful.
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Post by Sky Schemer on Nov 21, 2016 8:06:45 GMT
Well. The Kat's out of the bag now, huh?
*rimshot*
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Post by arf on Nov 21, 2016 8:07:04 GMT
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Post by Daedalus on Nov 21, 2016 8:14:35 GMT
Well. The Kat's out of the bag now, huh? *rimshot* Wow, Kat's nonsense-filter is really powerful. I think that what she sees is as valid as Annie's perceptions, just more straightforward. As in, she sees something closer to what's actually happening without the obfuscation of the ether's metaphors. Remember, her clear-eyed nature let her operate the "Final Record Player" without any difficulty, and it's revealed by the vampire in See Ya that their etheric illusions really are smoke and mirrors. Also. I just realized, holy crap. Has Kat ever seen Coyote in person?? What would her no-nonsense-filter see when she looks at the Trickster God?? |
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Post by erunion on Nov 21, 2016 8:28:30 GMT
...... Crazy theory time - Kat sees the Ether so simply because she is incredibly, incredibly powerful in it.
She sees always to the truth of things. Always to the core, cutting through all the nonsense. She does not see what seems, she sees what IS, and what is relevant to her.
This gives me two theories. 1, Kat is awesomely powerful.
2, every deity level being can see the ether the way Kat does (or in a similar manner can cut through illusion to see reality).
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Post by atteSmythe on Nov 21, 2016 8:34:42 GMT
Huh. I didn't really expect the ROTD rules to apply, or not so completely. I guess that's what happens if you somehow transport something that usually shows up as 'grey' in the ether...into the ether. It just remains mundane.
Yet, Kat is somehow 'really' here. Annie's been in the ether in Kat's presence before, and hasn't ever seen anything out of the ordinary. The only thing I can think of that has any sort of equivalent is Robert Jordan's Wheel of Time series. The dream world, Tel'aran'rhiod, is usually visited in spirit. It's possible to transport yourself there in the flesh, but to do so is considered an evil thing. I wonder if there's a common mythology that each of these stories draws from.
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Post by arf on Nov 21, 2016 8:35:19 GMT
Also. I just realized, holy crap. Has Kat ever seen Coyote in person?? What would her no-nonsense-filter see when she looks at the Trickster God??She would see nothing, because Coyote does not exist. |
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Post by CoyoteReborn on Nov 21, 2016 8:37:29 GMT
1, Kat is awesomely powerful. Yes. ...though not as much as I. I'm still the top dog, so to speak, hehe. 2, every deity level being can see the ether the way Kat does No. It depends on the perspective and outlook of the diety in question. Although we have a similar kind of deep understanding, I see the Ether similarly to how My Fire-Head Girl does (it's part of the reason we get along so famously!). It's a realm of whimsy where metaphor controls reality: perfect for Me, yes yes! The Angel lives in a coldly mechanical, clockwork world - of course she sees the Ether in a no-nonsense, straightforward sense. I think she's missing out, to be honest. Her Ether doesn't sound very interesting at all, no no!  |
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Post by bedinsis on Nov 21, 2016 8:40:18 GMT
Also. I just realized, holy crap. Has Kat ever seen Coyote in person?? What would her no-nonsense-filter see when she looks at the Trickster God??I always figured she'd see Coyote as we see him in the comic. There was no indication that she saw Muut or Ketrak any differently than Annie. |
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Post by Daedalus on Nov 21, 2016 8:43:23 GMT
Also. I just realized, holy crap. Has Kat ever seen Coyote in person?? What would her no-nonsense-filter see when she looks at the Trickster God??She would see nothing, because Coyote does not exist. Definitely a possibility, to be honest. But I'm hoping for something much trippier. Also. I just realized, holy crap. Has Kat ever seen Coyote in person?? What would her no-nonsense-filter see when she looks at the Trickster God??I always figured she'd see Coyote as we see him in the comic. There was no indication that she saw Muut or Ketrak any differently than Annie. Remember, though, both of their powers have evolved as the comic has progressed. Annie's now capable of perceiving more than before (for example, Smitty's strings) and the same may apply for Kat. |
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CGAdam
Junior Member
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Post by CGAdam on Nov 21, 2016 8:43:40 GMT
I'm reminded of a part from an old movie about the mothman. The exact words escape me, but someone points to a man cleaning windows on a skyscraper. "From up there, he can see an accident three blocks away. He can give directions to someone walking the streets, steering them around danger. He's not an all-seeing god, he just has a different perspective."
Kat may be extremely powerful, or she just might be able to see from a different point of view. Either way, I'm really liking this storyline.
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Post by atteSmythe on Nov 21, 2016 8:43:52 GMT
Also. I just realized, holy crap. Has Kat ever seen Coyote in person?? What would her no-nonsense-filter see when she looks at the Trickster God??I always figured she'd see Coyote as we see him in the comic. There was no indication that she saw Muut or Ketrak any differently than Annie. And Ankou - and I find that most interesting, because Ankou was in the ROTD, and yet still looked like himself. So, some fantastical things are smoke and mirrors, and others are true. ETA: I just realized that Annie falls back almost exactly as Zimmy did. Poor Kat (though she may not actually remember the Zimmy incident) EATA: I'm really trying to imagine this dialog from Annie's point of view. Absolutely hilarious. This must be how the Wizard of Oz felt. |
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Post by Gulby on Nov 21, 2016 8:59:47 GMT
Or Kat shared common ground faith and knowledge about the Ankou that allowed her to see him the same. Because, childhood, myths, you know.
Wow. This point of view from Kat will definitely help with green Elf Guy freedom...
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Post by philman on Nov 21, 2016 9:03:18 GMT
And as predicted, Kat doesn't see the maze or etheric powers, she just sees Annie, and the green guy in some kind of manacles. I wonder if Kat's robotic genius correponds to being able to pick locks created by Diego, or if we will have to get Renard in there too... |
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madragoran
Full Member
"If he trully does hurt you, I will rend the flesh from his bones on your word"
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Post by madragoran on Nov 21, 2016 9:07:38 GMT
Huh. I didn't really expect the ROTD rules to apply, or not so completely. I guess that's what happens if you somehow transport something that usually shows up as 'grey' in the ether...into the ether. It just remains mundane. Yet, Kat is somehow 'really' here. Annie's been in the ether in Kat's presence before, and hasn't ever seen anything out of the ordinary. The only thing I can think of that has any sort of equivalent is Robert Jordan's Wheel of Time series. The dream world, Tel'aran'rhiod, is usually visited in spirit. It's possible to transport yourself there in the flesh, but to do so is considered an evil thing. I wonder if there's a common mythology that each of these stories draws from. Have a cookie for the WoT reference. This is the second time in this chapter Kat does the Deus ex machina thingy (in the original ancient greek meaning no less where the god was lowered to the stage via a machine of some kind). I find the transition somewhat abrupt and it implies Kat is amazingly powerfull in the ether. As far as I understand she doesn't project herself or astral travel or however you call it. She just goes in bodily and hey presto the green man/ elf is in chains. Why is Annie so scqred of Kat though? She has seen a lot of weird stuff in the ether. Unless Kat projects this aura of awesome, like a divine light and it's a mixture of fear and awe. Kat is my favourite character in the comic. I really can't wait to see how this revelation is going to affect her. |
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Post by zbeeblebrox on Nov 21, 2016 9:17:47 GMT
So Kat just has full etheric immunity then, huh.
I wonder if this is a natural talent or what
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Post by Timberwere on Nov 21, 2016 9:23:43 GMT
Why is Annie so scqred of Kat though? She has seen a lot of weird stuff in the ether. Unless Kat projects this aura of awesome, like a divine light and it's a mixture of fear and awe. I'd say Annie is still seeing insect-robot Kat instead of the friend she is used to, and she has never shared Zimmy's vision. So there's this terrifying monster coming at her, and she only realizes it might not be out to kill her when it actually talks to her. |
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madragoran
Full Member
"If he trully does hurt you, I will rend the flesh from his bones on your word"
Posts: 232
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Post by madragoran on Nov 21, 2016 9:33:50 GMT
Why is Annie so scqred of Kat though? She has seen a lot of weird stuff in the ether. Unless Kat projects this aura of awesome, like a divine light and it's a mixture of fear and awe. I'd say Annie is still seeing insect-robot Kat instead of the friend she is used to, and she has never shared Zimmy's vision. So there's this terrifying monster coming at her, and she only realizes it might not be out to kill her when it actually talks to her. But Annie is not afraid of monsters is my point. Even back at the very beginning with Basil the minotaur. Looks for her are irrelevant re the evilness of the person. Or so I understood |
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brokshi
Full Member
About as furious as my icon appears ecstatic.
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Post by brokshi on Nov 21, 2016 9:56:33 GMT
I'd say Annie is still seeing insect-robot Kat instead of the friend she is used to, and she has never shared Zimmy's vision. So there's this terrifying monster coming at her, and she only realizes it might not be out to kill her when it actually talks to her. But Annie is not afraid of monsters is my point. Even back at the very beginning with Basil the minotaur. Looks for her are irrelevant re the evilness of the person. Or so I understood There's monsters, and then there's eldritch metallic humanoid insect things that distort everything and seem to go on forever. |
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fanofts
Junior Member
Watching gunnerkrigg.fandom.com
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Post by fanofts on Nov 21, 2016 10:18:28 GMT
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Post by foresterr on Nov 21, 2016 10:20:17 GMT
I always figured she'd see Coyote as we see him in the comic. There was no indication that she saw Muut or Ketrak any differently than Annie. Remember, though, both of their powers have evolved as the comic has progressed. Annie's now capable of perceiving more than before (for example, Smitty's strings) and the same may apply for Kat. I agree that if, for example, Coyote came with a visit to the Court, Kat would see him just as he usually looks like. What would she see instead of that, though, is still a valid question. It's interesting. On one hand we have the ether, which seems to be very malleable and observer dependant. On the other, we have the physical reality, which seems to have at least some kind of objectivity to it. But the gap between the two can be breached (Zimmy's reality distortion is the most obvious example, but probably all kinds of magetheric science work along these lines). I wonder under what rules it works. Seems like after reality is already distorted, you can't just wave it away no matter how powerful you are (Kat's "filter" didn't do anything during the situation on the ship). You can of course try to distort it in your own way, but that's something fundamentally different. |
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Post by agasa on Nov 21, 2016 10:40:04 GMT
On one hand we have the ether, which seems to be very malleable and observer dependant. On the other, we have the physical reality, which seems to have at least some kind of objectivity to it. But the gap between the two can be breached (Zimmy's reality distortion is the most obvious example, but probably all kinds of magetheric science work along these lines). I wonder under what rules it works. Seems like after reality is already distorted, you can't just wave it away no matter how powerful you are (Kat's "filter" didn't do anything during the situation on the ship). You can of course try to distort it in your own way, but that's something fundamentally different. You win cake. But as we're in the ether, the cake is a lie. |
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Post by Jelly Jellybean on Nov 21, 2016 12:17:48 GMT
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Post by youwiththeface on Nov 21, 2016 12:23:50 GMT
Also. I just realized, holy crap. Has Kat ever seen Coyote in person?? What would her no-nonsense-filter see when she looks at the Trickster God??I don't care what the result would be, I want to see this now. And holy crap, they should've done this from the start. This is gonna make things a lot simpler. |
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Post by freedomgeek on Nov 21, 2016 12:28:33 GMT
Maybe this quality of seeing the ether as mundane and seeing the component parts rather than the decoration isn't unique to Kat. Maybe its something a number of Court aligned people possess. That when you're sufficiently aligned with Court philosophy, with the desire to break everything down and understand it, everything in the Ether starts to look like this.
Feels like it would also mesh with making mankind into gods. After all, when you're a god there are no grand unsolvable mysteries.
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Post by todd on Nov 21, 2016 12:39:30 GMT
But Annie is not afraid of monsters is my point. Even back at the very beginning with Basil the minotaur. Looks for her are irrelevant re the evilness of the person. Or so I understood When Annie met Basil, all of her encunters with mythical or etheric beings (such as the Guides and Shadow2) had been peaceful. Since then, however, she's had many dangerous encounters with them (such as an enraged Ysengrin). Her matter-of-fact approach towards etheric beings in the early days of the webcomic might have been founded more on naivete than on a natural fearlessness. |
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Post by Trillium on Nov 21, 2016 13:51:06 GMT
Now that we have seen Annie and Kat's view of the situation I wonder what Jeanne's lover sees. His situation looks horrible, like his spirit is in perpetual servitude to the Court. Both he and Jeanne have been like this for what; years, decades or centuries? This must end.
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Post by fish on Nov 21, 2016 14:48:35 GMT
[...] Also. I just realized, holy crap. Has Kat ever seen Coyote in person?? What would her no-nonsense-filter see when she looks at the Trickster God??Maybe she'd see him as just a coyote. His original form. Kat is truly a goddess of reductionism. [...] Luckily Kat has a girlfriend who can see the beauty in things even when they are alien, and has seen her Mecha Angel form without cowering in fear. [...] To be fair, she didn't see Kat as fifty times her usual size coming towards her with razorsharp tentacles of rusted metal or whatever Annie is seeing. I'd be plenty scared. ó_ò On another note, did Kat just literally hack the ether with that green glowing stick? She's never entered the ether on her own, I think. Once with Mort in the RotD and once with the "help" of Zimmy on the Love Boat. But now she managed to force her own way through. Impressive. Also, here's a small "power stats" speculation: From a certain point of view one could now say: Annie < Kat < Zimmy. Because Annie is easily fooled by the ether, Kat doesn't even perceive whatever is supposed to fool you, but Zimmy can enforce etheric distortions onto Kat. From another point of view it would of course be Zimmy < Kat < Annie. Because Zimmy has little control over the ether and creates eldritch horrors left and right, Kat can only see the ether through her nonsense filter, but Annie can bend it to her will, with enough training that is. Or, wait, this could also be Zimmy < Annie < Kat, because Kat can actually manipulate the ether a lot more efficiently with a lot less effort. "Here, I have a hairpin." *unlocks etheric shackles binding the elf for centuries* |
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