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Post by Daedalus on Oct 26, 2016 7:00:25 GMT
Absolutely stunning, Tom.So many things to point out and so little time. The overall construction of the page reminds me of the School of Athens...somewhat. It's mostly in the clothing and architecture. I think Kat is wearing a chiton. I love the astrolabe around the sun at the top. Very Game of Thrones, heh. Coyote's being remarkably respectful there. Ysengrin's looking peaceful too. Coyote and Tony are aligned as if Annie has to choose one over the other, which is fitting. Jeanne is literally faceless, which is weird after we've learned that she can communicate. The geometric shape in the middle is a star tetrahedron. It's reminiscent of a Platonic Solid here. (The shape was of interest to the Greeks because it fits perfectly in both a cube and a sphere.) Is Red proposing to Blue?  If so, I expect to see an entire proposal constructed out of insults. Someone who knows more about alchemy than I can take a stab at the symbols here. Annie looks very distant and worried as she gazes on her father... I think that she's still very much emotionally compromised even if she's better at hiding it now. And finally, Paz playing with Rey's tail is the cutest thing.
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brokshi
Full Member
About as furious as my icon appears ecstatic.
Posts: 108
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Post by brokshi on Oct 26, 2016 7:03:59 GMT
There's almost too much to comment on, as with every Treatise. What's the symbol behind Kat's shoulder? Or that polyhedron in the middle? Fire!Annie glaring at her father is ominous, but fair. Red and Blue have a very serious pose! Paz in shadow seems sad, for some reason, it's probably fine though. Coyote and Anthony being on the same level almost makes sense, considering their relevance to Annie. Jeanne is literally faceless, which is weird after we've learned that she can communicate. Literally everyone is faceless, except for Kat, Annie, Fire!Annie, Robot, and Shadow. |
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Post by noone3 on Oct 26, 2016 7:10:02 GMT
Or that polyhedron in the middle? A stellated octahedron is what it is. No idea what it might signify, though. |
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Post by turniptree on Oct 26, 2016 7:15:11 GMT
Looks like Kat is Robot Jesus.
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Post by Daedalus on Oct 26, 2016 7:16:47 GMT
Or that polyhedron in the middle? A stellated octahedron is what it is. No idea what it might signify, though. The Greeks were interested in it, because is was a perfect shape by fitting perfectly within a cube (matching vertices) and a sphere (like the classical platonic solids). It's also made by fusing a bunch of regular tetrahedrons to a regular octahedron. Leonardo DaVinci also liked them, and was the first known person to calculate their volume. It's perfectly fitting for a classically-themed Treatise page, and looks like a star to match the astrological motifs here. But beyond that, the deeper significance eludes me. |
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Post by Daedalus on Oct 26, 2016 7:17:09 GMT
Looks like Kat is Robot Jesus. May I introduce you to my pet theory?  (check my signature for the link) |
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Post by calpal on Oct 26, 2016 7:18:52 GMT
Damn it, beat me by just the smallest of margins! And now for analysis off the top of my head... - The stars in the sky: looks like a constellation map of some sorts, but no particular pattern or constellation comes up (astrolab, thanks Daedalus!). That star in the middle, I find suspiciously similar, in design, to the ones Annie made before. And on that note, drawing from something I've mentioned before, the Stars in the Sky myth may suddenly have a lot more relevance in this coming chapter, with Kat playing some role in answering the robots the question of how they got there - a critical piece of information dealing with the creation of mythology. - Annie and Kat: Annie's attire seems modest, almost Medieval or Rennaissance in style, while Kat's outfit looks like a toga, referencing (I assume?) the Classical Greek era. If I were to interpret this through their current state of mind, it seems that, while Annie has "regressed" since the appearance of her father and struggles to maintain herself and return to her old composure, Kat is delving into the sciences and, through such complex science, effectively creating a myth out of it. In a way, she is a lively representation of all the accumulation of knowledge in one, an ideal, universal knowledge. In fact, her pose (and outfit, even) mirrors that of Socrates in The School of Athens, their hand extended to the heavens. EDIT: It also occurred to me that this is the first treatise we've seen where the position of the two girls have been flipped. Annie is now on the left, while Kat is on the right. Kat had always been on the left side, which was associated with the Court, while Annie stood on the right side, associated with the Forest. Now it seems Annie is further pulled towards the Court, while Kat has (somehow?) extended further out towards the Forest side. Thoughts? |
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Post by feraldog on Oct 26, 2016 7:19:31 GMT
The whole thing looks like a stage with Jeanne as the star/lead.
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Post by calpal on Oct 26, 2016 7:21:43 GMT
The whole thing looks like a stage with Jeanne as the star/lead. I see it more as Jeanne taking the stage and dividing the cast up on their respective sides. |
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Post by feraldog on Oct 26, 2016 7:25:48 GMT
The whole thing looks like a stage with Jeanne as the star/lead. I see it more as Jeanne taking the stage and dividing the cast up on their respective sides. Yeah that's probably going to be the fallout from this arc... (also: Annie, the Fire, and Ysengrin all look like they're watching Tony. I'm not sure what Coyote's looking at, but I suspect he's doing the same.) |
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Post by CoyoteReborn on Oct 26, 2016 7:29:13 GMT
I'm not sure what Coyote's looking at
Everyone knows I'm the protagonist, after all, yes yes! |
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pasko
Full Member
Objection!
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Post by pasko on Oct 26, 2016 7:31:48 GMT
Ysengrin and Coyote == Romeo and Juliet?
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Post by rafk on Oct 26, 2016 7:38:51 GMT
EDIT: It also occurred to me that this is the first treatise we've seen where the position of the two girls have been flipped. Â Annie is now on the left, while Kat is on the right. Â Kat had always been on the left side, which was associated with the Court, while Annie stood on the right side, associated with the Forest. Â Now it seems Annie is further pulled towards the Court, while Kat has (somehow?) extended further out towards the Forest side. Â Thoughts? That was the first thing that struck me, it's such a departure from previous Treatises. Actually, stylistically it feels generally different. Less intricate, and looking more like an illustration of where all the major characters are at than the cryptic prophecy feel of earlier treatises. |
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Post by zaferion on Oct 26, 2016 7:39:10 GMT
Oh man there's so much and I'm just talking about Kat and Annie.
Annie's on the Court side of the treatise this time.
Annie is closer to the Court than Kat.
Annie is fixated on her father.
In the circle behind them there's Annie's symbol and Kat's symbol, but what could the third symbol be? It's hidden way too intentionally to be nothing. Theorymongers go!!
Most importantly (to me anyway) is that Kat is gesturing at the forest and pulling Annie toward it. She doesn't give a damn about the divide between the Court and the forest; she knows the forest makes Annie happy and she wants Annie to be happy so to the forest with her. There's also something about Kat's pose that I can't quite put my finger on. It's a pose commonly used in classical plays so I kind of have an idea of what it's supposed to represent, but I can't put it into words. It's really clever--Tom's got Kat in this classical-looking pose obviously hinting at something, but it's also just a friend helping a friend.
Kinda disappointed at the lack of Zimmy and Gamma, but I guess they haven't been in the comic a lot lately so I understand.
Why are Parley and Smitty on the forest side?? And why is Smitty's back to us??? You're fine Smitts don't leave us pls what did we do wrong
Kat is the main point of this treatise (she's almost dead center and she's wearing the most powerful, attention grabbing color in the picture), almost like she's becoming the main character and Annie's taking a back seat.
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Post by freedomgeek on Oct 26, 2016 7:59:15 GMT
I don't think the fact that Kat is closer to the forest signifies anything about Kat. It's all about how Annie has been physically reeled back into the court. But note the fire spirit in the top right. She's still, in part, aligned with the forest. She's split between two loyalties and this is going to come to a head. Edit: Wait, maybe Kat is gesturing towards the fire spirit rather than, as some have speculated, the forest. Kat is the main point of this treatise (she's almost dead center and she's wearing the most powerful, attention grabbing color in the picture), almost like she's becoming the main character and Annie's taking a back seat. Ok with me! |
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Post by CoyoteReborn on Oct 26, 2016 8:00:12 GMT
Ysengrin and Coyote == Romeo and Juliet? “Oh, I shall teach you how you may forget to think. I shall steal away your memories most dark, and give to you the deep sweet sleep of dreams. And when you should die, I will take you, my dearest wolf and cut you in little stars, and place your face in the sky, and you will make the face of heaven so fine that all the world will be in love with night..." |
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cb3
New Member
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Post by cb3 on Oct 26, 2016 8:02:51 GMT
Most importantly (to me anyway) is that Kat is gesturing at the forest and pulling Annie toward it. She doesn't give a damn about the divide between the Court and the forest; she knows the forest makes Annie happy and she wants Annie to be happy so to the forest with her. There's also something about Kat's pose that I can't quite put my finger on. It's a pose commonly used in classical plays so I kind of have an idea of what it's supposed to represent, but I can't put it into words. It's really clever--Tom's got Kat in this classical-looking pose obviously hinting at something, but it's also just a friend helping a friend. I agree that Kat looks like she is trying to pull Annie back to the Forest, but Kat could also be explaining, or about to turn that golden mechanism on the Forset side. I can see Coyote and Ysengrim watching to see what Kat is doing. As for Annie, she is on the wrong side of the treatise and looks anchored to her Father, IMHO her expression screams defiance (I also have a 14 year old red headed daughter, I know that expression well). |
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Post by KMar on Oct 26, 2016 8:33:50 GMT
Greek? Looks like Kat is wearing a Roman toga (which is, by the way, traditionally male clothing) or something similar. I'm not good enough at fashion history to place the time period of Annie's dress, could be inspired by medieval / renaissance or maybe not, but it's certainly feminine. The red cloth around her neck reminds me of liturgical stole.
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Post by snowflake on Oct 26, 2016 8:41:35 GMT
(also: Annie, the Fire, and Ysengrin all look like they're watching Tony. I'm not sure what Coyote's looking at, but I suspect he's doing the same.) I'm guessing this means that his fade into the background is very temporary, and that he (by himself or along with the Omega device) is about to make a comeback. |
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Post by speedwell on Oct 26, 2016 9:14:26 GMT
Most of the elements are arranged loosely in an arguably correct Luriatic Kabbalistic "Tree of Life" arrangement:
Light at the top arch: Keter/Ein Sof'
Jones as Wandering Eye: Binah (Understanding) Perfected experience now processing what has been learned
Antimony's fire elemental: Chokhmah (Wisdom) Animating force and attempt to master the emotions
Kat: Da'at (Knowledge) Demonstrating the essential principles of order in the Universe
Coyote: Chesed (Kindness) Special benevolence and grace of (a) god
Anthony: Gevurah (Severity) Judgmental, withholding figure of fear
Antimony: Tiferet (Beauty) Mediating between Chesed and Gevurah, creating balance
Ysengrin/Rabbit/Red and Blue: Netzach (Victory) Transforming their outward form to match their inward reality
Robot and Shadow/Paz/Reynard: Hod (Glory) Letting truth lead them to their higher selves
Court/Forest/chasm: Yesod (Foundation): Context of learning and self-assigned (spiritual) tasks
Jeanne: Malkuth (Kingship): Female vessel for the accomplishment of the plans and goals of the higher sephiroth
The story as a whole (that is, the story of Jeanne and the separation of the Court and Forest) would thus represent the journey from Shattering (Shevirat HaKeilim) to Reunification (Tikkun).
Edit: Since someone brought them up, I didn't see George and Andrew as being assigned to any one of the sephiroth, but I do admit that they fit an interpretation of Da'at in Yesod, as a force of order and a student of enforcement of order in the Gunnerkrigg context. This matches their placement; they are standing directly between one of the two spheres I have thought of as Da'at and the ground of the Forest, an element I have identified as Yesod.
Edit II: The merkabah (the sacred geometry figure below the light, the stellated octahedron) is thought of in Kabbalah as a "chariot" or vehicle between the sephiroth.
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Post by bedinsis on Oct 26, 2016 10:01:48 GMT
Well, looks like most things I could bring up has already been brought up here. Some notes of mine:
Lots of people holding hands. Shadow+Robot, Annie+Kat, Red+Red's friend.
The columns along both sides are decorated with carvings. One side with robots, hands in their pockets, other side with an animal... is it a cow? Doesn't sound thematic.
Not directly related to this picture, but I only now realized: in the beginning of the comic Annie built Robot's body and he was eventually given a biological arm(made of wood). After his body was destroyed Kat built him a new body and he was eventually given a biological arm(made of...purple flesh).
Jones is opposite fire elemental Annie, Mr. Carver is opposite Coyote. Might not be significant of anything but one interpretation could be "stoic mentor of Annie opposed to wild mentor/side of Annie".
Smith's pose seems to not be significant of anything, leading me to believe that his and Parley's presence is a mere acknowledgement of, yeah, they appeared in this book.
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Post by saardvark on Oct 26, 2016 11:32:26 GMT
Most of the elements are arranged loosely in an arguably correct Luriatic Kabbalistic "Tree of Life" arrangement: Light at the top arch: Keter/Ein Sof' Jones as Wandering Eye: Binah (Understanding) Perfected experience now processing what has been learnedAntimony's fire elemental: Chokhmah (Wisdom) Animating force and attempt to master the emotionsKat: Da'at (Knowledge) Demonstrating the essential principles of order in the UniverseCoyote: Chesed (Kindness) Special benevolence and grace of (a) godAnthony: Gevurah (Severity) Judgmental, withholding figure of fear
Antimony: Tiferet (Beauty) Mediating between Chesed and Gevurah, creating balance
Ysengrin/Rabbit/Red and Blue: Netzach (Victory) Transforming their outward form to match their inward reality
Robot and Shadow/Paz/Reynard: Hod (Glory) Letting truth lead them to their higher selvesCourt/Forest/chasm: Yesod (Foundation): Context of learning and self-assigned (spiritual) tasksJeanne: Malkuth (Kingship): Female vessel for the accomplishment of the plans and goals of the higher sephirothThe story as a whole would thus represent the journey from Shattering ( Shevirat HaKeilim) to Reunification ( Tikkun). wow, some stunning parallels there... Shattering to Reunification? Rejoining/reconnecting Forest and the Court? I was also struck by: eternals looking on (Jones and fire-spirit) robot back together! has his organic bits back, and has he put on weight? Looks like he has a bit of a paunch.... multiplicity of pairs (red-blue, rabbit boy-fairy, Parley-Smitts, robot-shadow, Coyote-Ysengrin[? maybe not a pairing], Paz-Rey [not a true pair, excepting Paz' love of animals - perhaps each waits for their true other: Rey-Annie and Paz-Kat], and of course, Annie-Kat [friendship]) [bedinsis kinda covered this] Jeanne still present! Has not yet passed on... what does this mean for the current drama? ... further, no Green-guy pair for her. symbols are ambiguous, either alchemical or astrological. Silver=moon, copper=venus, mercury=mercury, lead=saturn[possibly?] ... can't figure the "T" and backward "S", among others Parley watches Jeanne, as court protector, [or does she watch Kat?], while Smitts looks to the forest, as the new medium. |
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Post by Jelly Jellybean on Oct 26, 2016 11:43:15 GMT
Not much to add that hasn't already been said... - Annie is wearing the same dress she had on inside Blue's illusion. - I think The Fire Elemental, Coyote, and Ysengrin are looking at Annie, maybe Kat, and probably not Anthony. - Anthony doesn't seem to be looking at Annie. Maybe Coyote, but to me he seems to looking off into the distance. Not seeing Annie for who she is. - I thought the carving on the columns on the Forest side were effigies of Coyote. EDIT: Oh! I just saw the two people hiding in the shadows behind Robot (searching for cats hidden in comics has served me well today). The Court's secret police/agents? SUPER LATE EDIT: Red and Blue are also wearing the same clothing they wore in Blue's illusion. |
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Post by arf on Oct 26, 2016 12:31:10 GMT
I note that Shadow is leading Robot out of the Court by his organic hand. Steadying influence on the robot religion? (which Shadow has never been keen on.)
The three symbols Kat in the inverted triangle is gesturing to. Moon, Venus, Saturn? Star? That'SM' from the last treatise?
Parley and Smitty: the Guardian with Court Medium, prepared to communicate with the Forest.
Paz: finally! I note that there's no one in the lower right corner, unless Rey has come over to the Court.
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Post by nirgal on Oct 26, 2016 13:05:44 GMT
I had to register to comment this: The stances of Shadow and Robot are quite similar to Kat and Annie, like they're doing the same.
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Post by saardvark on Oct 26, 2016 13:14:38 GMT
hmm, the pairings are all a swirling mix/joining of court & forest, continuing the theme of the two meeting, mixing, coming together:
Parley - court protector =with= Smitts - medium to the forest
bunny boy - from the forest, now at court =with= fairy, still forest
Red =with= blue - both forest originally, now court
Robot - court machine, but has visited forest and is now getting organic (more forest-like?) =with= Shadow, from forest, now at court
Paz - court, but loves and is attuned to natural forests things =with= Rey, demigod of the forest, now "stuck" at court thru his love of Annie
[both of these actually paired with...]
Kat - mech-angel goddess-in-training of the court, but here perhaps convincing Annie to rejoin with her true self (forest, fire-spirit) =with=
Annie - court, but happiest in the forest, tho torn by court-side presence of Anthony
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Post by saardvark on Oct 26, 2016 13:17:35 GMT
I had to register to comment this: The stances of Shadow and Robot are quite similar to Kat and Annie, like they're doing the same. ooh, like it! EDIT: but to go a bit further, if Kat is coaxing Annie to rejoin more fully to forest/fire-spirit, what is Shadow doing? Arguing for Robot to go more organic? Or the reverse, go back to his "true" fully-Robot self? (Maybe this over interprets....) welcome to the discussion, btw! |
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Post by Trillium on Oct 26, 2016 14:15:44 GMT
Wow, this is just stunning.
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Post by mordekai on Oct 26, 2016 14:42:49 GMT
Is Kat taking the role of God as Architect of the Universe? (https://scalambra.files.wordpress.com/2012/12/god-as-architect-of-the-universe-bible-moralisc3a9e-france-1250.jpg?w=497)
Or maybe she is taking that of Science? (https://legionofhonor.famsf.org/files/lahyre_snap_0.jpg)(http://www.artkarma.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/02/Allegory-of-Knowledge2-199x300.jpg)
Or perhaps just of Dante as Dante's guide? (http://www.artwarefineart.com/sites/default/files/portraits/dante%26virgil.jpg)
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Post by Daedalus on Oct 26, 2016 14:48:54 GMT
Is Kat taking the role of God as Architect of the Universe? (https://scalambra.files.wordpress.com/2012/12/god-as-architect-of-the-universe-bible-moralisc3a9e-france-1250.jpg?w=497) Or maybe she is taking that of Science? (https://legionofhonor.famsf.org/files/lahyre_snap_0.jpg)(http://www.artkarma.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/02/Allegory-of-Knowledge2-199x300.jpg) Or perhaps just of Dante as Dante's guide? (http://www.artwarefineart.com/sites/default/files/portraits/dante%26virgil.jpg) *cough* hyperlinks are our friends *cough* |
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If so, I expect to see an entire proposal constructed out of insults.
