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Post by CoyoteReborn on May 16, 2016 7:04:10 GMT
The plot thickens, yes yes!I know all of the answers, of course. But I enjoy watching you struggle to comprehend the truth too much - I can't just give them to you, no! By struggle, you shall find enlightenment and truth. Please hand-deliver your thank-you cards to My private villa in the Forest. Ask anyone for directions  *giggles*
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Post by imaginaryfriend on May 16, 2016 7:05:09 GMT
Thread weaving. Not everyone can see them. Fairly straightforward. Some reach heaven through violence, others become suddenly aware. Still others just go to keggers. |
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Post by Daedalus on May 16, 2016 7:13:31 GMT
hand-deliver...in the Forest Or maybe Cabin in the Woods is a better reference, given who's saying it? Also, you messed up the BBCode  Link to "http://www.gunnerkrigg.com/?p=1671", not "www.gunnerkrigg.com", so the link is still accurate after Wednesday. |
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Post by tiberius on May 16, 2016 7:16:00 GMT
Buggsy is just jealous and angry that she can't use those threads for a new shiny sweater, I guess.
Otherwise, wouldn't it make sense this way? If anyone would be able to see those "strings of destiny", would they not be seriously confused? This makes me wonder, though, how on earth (or how on etheric not-earth) Annie is able to see them since she is not supposed to be in a state with her full abilities ... oh, this is going to be exciting!
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Post by CoyoteReborn on May 16, 2016 7:17:02 GMT
hand-deliver...in the Forest
Also, you messed up the BBCode Link to "http://www.gunnerkrigg.com/?p=1671", not "www.gunnerkrigg.com", so the link is still accurate after Wednesday. Blasphemy! The Great Lord Coyote does not make mistakes, no! |
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Post by bedinsis on May 16, 2016 7:17:27 GMT
I can't just give them to you, no! Wait a minute, I know what is going on here! Annie must have gone crazy and started seeing things that aren't even there. It must be due to too large exposure to ether than what a human can handle. And you're trying to cover your butt in not providing OSHA compliant safety gear. This would follow with Gillitie Woods inc. standard treatment of their personnel. And don't try to sneak your way out of this one, I've seen what happened to Ysengrin before he was fired, and how Rabbit Boy was killed when he tried to quit. I'm onto you! ... In all seriousness I don't think Annie has gone crazy. |
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Post by imaginaryfriend on May 16, 2016 7:21:59 GMT
Blasphemy! The Great Lord Coyote does not make mistakes, no! That one could be on Proboards. My links get truncated sometimes (as well as butchered in other ways) so "http://www.gunnerkrigg.com/?p=1671" somehow becoming just "http://www.gunnerkrigg.com/" between preview and post wouldn't shock me at all here. I've taken to just entering them manually, for some reason that seems to screw up less (or maybe I'm deluding myself). [edit] Actually I'm fed up enough with Proboards that the truth is I've mostly stopped bothering. [/edit] |
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Post by CoyoteReborn on May 16, 2016 7:25:58 GMT
You're trying to cover your butt in not providing OSHA compliant safety gear! I pay so very much attention to OSHA compliance! I'm hurt by your lack of trust, and you might have made Me cry!  In fact, all injuries I cause are OSHA-compliant, and that is a promise! OSHA does stand for Overly Serious but Highly Amusing, right? Just wanna check we're on the same page. |
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Post by Daedalus on May 16, 2016 7:32:43 GMT
Okay, everyone - Coyote hour is over now. Can we chat about the comic?  So his strings might not be properly etheric, or not visible to "normal" users of etheric vision. That's not surprising, since Zimmy's earlier vision of Kat wasn't entirely etheric, either. But why would Annie in particular be able to see it? And if she could manage to "move" Smitty's mind into the ether, would he see his own powers? |
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Post by bedinsis on May 16, 2016 7:33:53 GMT
OSHA does stand for Overly Serious but Highly Amusing, right? Just wanna check we're on the same page. I was referring to the Occupational Safety and Health Administration. Since you come from the New World I figured you might be more familiar with that acronym; the UK equivalent would be HSE(Health and Safety Executive). And I don't think seeing things that aren't there is highly amusing. --- On topic, I wonder if Andrew is holding "the strings of fate" so to speak and the beings of ether are unable to see it, either because they're to wild to control or because they're to chaotic to recognize that as a possible world view. |
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Post by CoyoteReborn on May 16, 2016 7:40:35 GMT
Okay, everyone - Coyote hour is over now. 
THE PARTY NEVER STOPS!
TIME IS DEAD, AND MEANING HAS NO MEANING! |
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Post by foresterr on May 16, 2016 7:59:41 GMT
So his strings might not be properly etheric, or not visible to "normal" users of etheric vision. That's not surprising, since Zimmy's earlier vision of Kat wasn't entirely etheric, either. But why would Annie in particular be able to see it? Well, either Annie is special somehow (maybe as a result of her extended interactions with Zimmy, even), or Bugsy IS LYING :V Or maybe not lying lying. The strings might be taboo for some reason. EDIT: Oh, right. Smit's powers are taboo because those are the powers to make things boring. It's all so clear now ...and then the universe will collapse in a self referential destiny string infinite loop. Maybe that's why Smitty ain't all colourful to start with ^^ |
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Post by imaginaryfriend on May 16, 2016 8:00:47 GMT
So his strings might not be properly etheric, or not visible to "normal" users of etheric vision. That's not surprising, since Zimmy's earlier vision of Kat wasn't entirely etheric, either. But why would Annie in particular be able to see it? And if she could manage to "move" Smitty's mind into the ether, would he see his own powers? The more etheric the thing is the less objective it is, so why would it be odd at all that some people can see something like this and some can't? Maybe we can draw something meaningful/predictive from this eventually about categories of etheric vision or different powers but at the moment we don't have enough information. Sure, it could be that Bugsy hasn't been on the receiving end of Andrew's powers, or that she just doesn't know him well enough, or because she's from the Wood... but until more data appears I'm content with a wizard did it it's magic. [edit] I guess the strongest theory I'm not bothering to wildly speculate is that Antimony's a guide so she deals with the ether whereas Bugsy doesn't. [/edit] [edit2] Maybe the most interesting aspect of this comic is that I'm now wondering if it's possible that some people can see Bugsy as she floats about but not see the clothes she made for herself. Probably none of the kids in her class could do that, though. It'd have been obvious by now. [/edit2] |
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Post by Daedalus on May 16, 2016 8:10:41 GMT
So his strings might not be properly etheric, or not visible to "normal" users of etheric vision. That's not surprising, since Zimmy's earlier vision of Kat wasn't entirely etheric, either. But why would Annie in particular be able to see it? And if she could manage to "move" Smitty's mind into the ether, would he see his own powers? The more etheric the thing is the less objective it is, so why would it be odd at all that some people can see something like this and some can't? Maybe we can draw something meaningful/predictive from this eventually about categories of etheric vision or different powers but at the moment we don't have enough information. Sure, it could be that Bugsy hasn't been on the receiving end of Andrew's powers, or that she just doesn't know him well enough, or because she's from the Wood... but until more data appears I'm content with a wizard did it it's magic. [edit] I guess the strongest theory I'm not bothering to wildly speculate is that Antimony's a guide so she deals with the ether whereas Bugsy doesn't. [/edit] [edit2] Maybe the most interesting aspect of this comic is that I'm now wondering if it's possible that some people can see Bugsy as she floats about but not see the clothes she made for herself. Probably none of the kids in her class could do that, though. It'd have been obvious by now. [/edit2] Coyote once said that He, Renard, and Ysengrin are creatures that live in the etheric world and can touch the physical world, whereas (it's implied) Annie and corporeal beings are the reverse. I always assumed the same divide held true for the fairies: they're living in the ether, so obviously they can see etheric things easily. To me, it seems natural that if something can't be seen in the ether, it's not purely etheric (for example, Jones appears normal in the ether but she's clearly not normal). |
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zirka
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Post by zirka on May 16, 2016 8:31:39 GMT
I'm not sure why Annie looks surprised. Those strings are clearly the etheric manifestation of Smitty's awesomeness. I wish she would bring him into the ether with her to watch this presentation that's coming up. I think she must be able to do it, she just needs to TRY.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 16, 2016 8:52:35 GMT
Perhaps Annie can spot the strings precisely because she operates under the assumption that Smitty can manipulate luck, and the Ether reacts to that belief by making it manifest to her. In fact, how does the Ether cope with mythologies that contradict each other, such as Coyote's myth about how he hung the stars in the sky vs. Jones' myth that "they have always been there", as she observed it? We just don't know(Etheric Studies is taught to Queslett and Thornhill students mostly via almost-educational TV, I imagine: "An experiment was carried out to determine the effects of Etheric mafipulation upon a Besselheim plate. Do you recognize the triple helix?") |
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Post by aline on May 16, 2016 9:31:19 GMT
Perhaps Annie can spot the strings precisely because she operates under the assumption that Smitty can manipulate luck, and the Ether reacts to that belief by making it manifest to her. In fact, how does the Ether cope with mythologies that contradict each other, such as Coyote's myth about how he hung the stars in the sky vs. Jones' myth that "they have always been there", as she observed it? We just don't knowThe Ether being a place where belief takes shape, I don't think it really needs such a thing as inner consistency. It's a place where several 'truths' can coexist.
Also I don't thing we can place beings like the fairies or Annie on a scale of abilities. There are things the fairies can do that Annie can't, but the reverse has always been true as well. Annie is able to move things in the real world from the Ether, that really amazed the fairies last time she visited. She's part human and part etheric, maybe that enhances the broadness of what she has access to, especially things that are somehwere between both worlds...
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Post by philman on May 16, 2016 9:53:39 GMT
I wonder if it is similar to how Annie and Kat saw things in completely different ways in the Realm Of The Dead. annie saw magnificent and terrifying beings who controlled access to the dead, Kat saw a bureaucracy trying to make itself look scary.
Annie might see Smitty as she sees his powers: he has etheric strings on his hand, acting like a puppeteer pulling on the strings of fate, while Bugsy might see Smitty as she sees his power, Smitty looks boring to her as his power is to make everything boring
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Post by Jelly Jellybean on May 16, 2016 10:41:09 GMT
Annie is a psychopomp, Bugsy is not.
Clearly the strings are the entangled souls snared by Smitty's ability. Annie needs some kind of really damn sharp slicing thing to do her job properly. If someone were to give her a really damn sharp slicing thing, then she could release the souls trapped by the forces of order. Who would have a really damn sharp slicing thing and an interest in souls passing into the ether? Even if those are just boring old strings of fate, who would have an interest in seeing the strings of fate cut loose from the hand of order?
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Post by imaginaryfriend on May 16, 2016 10:49:37 GMT
Clearly the strings are the entangled souls snared by Smitty's ability. Annie needs some kind of really damn sharp slicing thing to do her job properly. If someone were to give her a really damn sharp slicing thing, then she could release the souls trapped by the forces of order. Who would have a really damn sharp slicing thing and an interest in souls passing into the ether? Even if those are just boring old strings of fate, who would have an interest in seeing the strings of fate cut loose from the hand of order? The way people tend to end up in the ether makes me think that there isn't a soul (as such) in the Gunnerverse but that aside I agree that there is a lot of potential to take The Tooth and screw with Smitface's strings. Like, for example, what would happen if Antimony cut two threads away and tied them together? Or cut away two threads from Smitty and then reconnected them to him in opposite positions? Since his power works on more than just people, you could have all sorts of interesting mis-sorted things happen. I'm not even sure where to start, the mind so boggles with possibilities. Perhaps Annie can spot the strings precisely because she operates under the assumption that Smitty can manipulate luck, and the Ether reacts to that belief by making it manifest to her. In fact, how does the Ether cope with mythologies that contradict each other, such as Coyote's myth about how he hung the stars in the sky vs. Jones' myth that "they have always been there", as she observed it? We just don't knowNot being material the ether doesn't need to cope with conflicting or directly contradictory mythologies. btw YouTube is nifty. I had some free time recently so I've been watching Korean people react to things and Irish people try things there. Coyote once said that He, Renard, and Ysengrin are creatures that live in the etheric world and can touch the physical world, whereas (it's implied) Annie and corporeal beings are the reverse. I always assumed the same divide held true for the fairies: they're living in the ether, so obviously they can see etheric things easily. To me, it seems natural that if something can't be seen in the ether, it's not purely etheric (for example, Jones appears normal in the ether but she's clearly not normal). Maybe it's too etheric for Bugsy. If those are actual strands of fate that's a distortion in the pure ether (why? -because it would have to transcend time). I don't know if Bugsy can even see a ghost that isn't RotD approved. Sure, Antimony can be grouped in with generic corporal beings just because she has a physical body but I'm not ready to use our protagonist as an example of what can be typical for those with a corpus. She's a special case. She may even have another body in her fire. I don't question the divide exists* I just question if it's a function of belief (philosophy? dogma?) therefore it doesn't have to exist at any given point if it's not an element in a story, therefore it isn't "real" in the same sense as the ether is real (and possibly material things, though as far as I'm concerned the jury is still deliberating on that one). If I lived in the Gunnerverse I'd be very interested in what places where on the (likely) continuum between ether and matter, and how much energy and time is required to do how much work shifting something from another part of the spectrum... Even though I was never great at calc it should describe some interesting relationships. *3 cheers for Aristotle and his definitions |
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Post by csj on May 16, 2016 11:50:50 GMT
strings or a web?
I see minor similarities between smitty and zimmy insofar as how 'mechanical' their abilities are at a certain level. Though they are almost certainly representative of some measure of control; something it would make sense for only annie to see. Human constructs and all that. Puppets strings of probability.
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Post by TBeholder on May 16, 2016 11:54:56 GMT
how does the Ether cope with mythologies that contradict each other, such as Coyote's myth about how he hung the stars in the sky vs. Jones' myth that "they have always been there", as she observed it? The Ether being a place where belief takes shape, I don't think it really needs such a thing as inner consistency. It's a place where several 'truths' can coexist. We know there are different layers - which Annie experienced first-hand, what's with her (mis)adventures as a Psychopomp and being invited to the one where Coyote looked like Cosmic Band Saw. I wonder if it is similar to how Annie and Kat saw things in completely different ways in the Realm Of The Dead. annie saw magnificent and terrifying beings who controlled access to the dead, Kat saw a bureaucracy trying to make itself look scary. Annie might see Smitty as she sees his powers: he has etheric strings on his hand, acting like a puppeteer pulling on the strings of fate, while Bugsy might see Smitty as she sees his power, Smitty looks boring to her as his power is to make everything boring Also good point. |
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Earin
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Post by Earin on May 16, 2016 12:33:50 GMT
Clearly the strings are the entangled souls snared by Smitty's ability. Annie needs some kind of really damn sharp slicing thing to do her job properly. If someone were to give her a really damn sharp slicing thing, then she could release the souls trapped by the forces of order. Who would have a really damn sharp slicing thing and an interest in souls passing into the ether? Even if those are just boring old strings of fate, who would have an interest in seeing the strings of fate cut loose from the hand of order? The way people tend to end up in the ether makes me think that there isn't a soul (as such) in the Gunnerverse but that aside I agree that there is a lot of potential to take The Tooth and screw with Smitface's strings. Like, for example, what would happen if Antimony cut two threads away and tied them together? Or cut away two threads from Smitty and then reconnected them to him in opposite positions? Since his power works on more than just people, you could have all sorts of interesting mis-sorted things happen. I'm not even sure where to start, the mind so boggles with possibilities. Just please be careful not to cut the red string that leads to Parley. |
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Post by ctso74 on May 16, 2016 13:21:41 GMT
Okay, everyone - Coyote hour is over now. Can we chat about the comic? So his strings might not be properly etheric, or not visible to "normal" users of etheric vision. That's not surprising, since Zimmy's earlier vision of Kat wasn't entirely etheric, either. But why would Annie in particular be able to see it? And if she could manage to "move" Smitty's mind into the ether, would he see his own powers? As others have mentioned, it could be the 'perceptual fog' of the Ether. Annie knows about Smitty's abilities, so she can more easily see them. It could also be that the fairies see too much. It's hard to see glowing threads on a glowing background. Annie could not be seeing parts of the Ether, that are camouflaging the strings. |
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Post by keef on May 16, 2016 13:34:16 GMT
In fact, how does the Ether cope with mythologies that contradict each other,) You made probably all Pratchett fans think of Pyramids, where the various sun gods at some point play a kind of heavenly rugby with the sun. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 16, 2016 13:53:36 GMT
The Ether being a place where belief takes shape, I don't think it really needs such a thing as inner consistency. It's a place where several 'truths' can coexist. I'm unsure if we agree, so I will elaborate. Individual belief, at least, requires the utmost care towards consistency. An undecidable property does not lack a truth value -- it is merely impossible to deduce it, e.g. because no complete algorithm terminates within finite time, or because every assumption as to said value results in a paradoxon. By contrast, from accepting contradictory premises I can derive arbitrary judgments, but the path away from arbitrary behaviour leads to the heart of religion. Yet the Ether itself seems chaotic in comparison, spontaneously changing at the touch of will (so to speak). Somehow, the Ether must accommodate for contradictory beliefs across perceiving minds, as all perceiving minds are distinct. One may propose that the stars that were always in the night sky are contained in a wholly different thread of reality from those stars that Coyote hung there. Their material counterparts overlap, due to different beliefs finding their expression in the same materia secunda (hint), to which thinking minds are "more accustomed" (trick of speech); but in truth (singular), these beliefs form the perceptible hull of a dormant monad within "the stars" of legend, flashing in convenient shapes. Thus a contradiction arises only momentarily; it is reflected in the Ether precisely because it alludes to how a false knot, suddenly fastened, will dissolve. What the comic depicts as Annie delving into the Ether must amount to the pelagic zone at most; her encountering "different beings" and "environments", which appear to remain consistent and separate across a range of observers, points to the harmony of the spheres perceptive and appetitive monads through whose partially identical (but never entangled) sequences of perception this illusion of interactivity is created. The Ether may nonetheless reflect truth rather clearly or rather darkly according to its observer (and those that cannot access it may even influence it strongly by their natures, e.g. Kat, Jones and Andrew). All-piercing clarity remains an exclusive property of the authoring monad. Incidentally, the author of the theory inferred above could not solve the Basel problem, and his name was posthumously married to a buttery biscuit's mass-produced body in another inscrutable turn of the big wheel. My point here rests on the presumption that Tom has derived the term "Ether" and the associated philosophy from said mathematician's writings and worked from there. In fact, how does the Ether cope with mythologies that contradict each other,) You made probably all Pratchett fans think of Pyramids, where the various sun gods at some point play a kind of heavenly rugby with the sun. Alas I cannot draw up something pterrifically hilarious from Pratchett that would fit as a response, but have this instead: pbfcomics.com/271/(I find PBF often too cruel to be funny, but I like this one) (edit: and this one and this one too, for instance) |
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Post by noone3 on May 16, 2016 13:57:56 GMT
This makes me wonder, though, how on earth (or how on etheric not-earth) Annie is able to see them since she is not supposed to be in a state with her full abilities. I guess there is seeing, and then... there is seeeeing. <makes sage-like face> |
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Post by TBeholder on May 16, 2016 14:09:52 GMT
Buggsy is just jealous and angry that she can't use those threads for a new shiny sweater, I guess. ...or it just upsets her... Well, either Annie is special somehow (maybe as a result of her extended interactions with Zimmy, even), or Bugsy IS LYING :V Or maybe not lying lying. The strings might be taboo for some reason. Or she couldn't figure out what the chickcharney those things are about, so she chose to simply shrug and dismiss them. Which may be a sensible attitude for her: there's a lot of weird dung in the Ether, you cannot sit and ponder every time, just move on. In which case, does she pretend, or does this work as "out of mind, out of sight"? |
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Post by youwiththeface on May 16, 2016 14:25:24 GMT
...You know, there were theories that Zimmy's abilities came about because of experiments done on her that made her that way. What if Smitty or someone in his family was a much more stable and successful example of the same, and that's why etheric beings can't see his abilities?
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Post by Señor Goose on May 16, 2016 15:56:55 GMT
Annie needs some kind of really damn sharp slicing thing to do her job properly. She'll need two slicing things, because she has to cut the thread from both sides so they don't regenerate, right? |
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