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Post by OGRuddawg on Dec 2, 2015 12:03:05 GMT
This looks inspired by Lovecraft, Akira, and my brother (I'm kidding about my brother).
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Post by foresterr on Dec 2, 2015 12:45:05 GMT
Huh, interesting. So based on the idea that this is actually some primitive "map" of Robot's pre-brain (or brain?) of the biological body, maybe this will give us a few clues as to what the new body should look like once complete Those fingerprintey thingies are clearly pressure receptors. So yeah, touch
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Post by Jelly Jellybean on Dec 2, 2015 12:51:33 GMT
Until proven wrong on the nest page, I am going with the idea that the eyes represent an adaptation Kat did not anticipate. Robot is obsessed with watching Kat and all the eyes may be a manifestation of that obsession. I like this idea mostly because it makes this creepy page even creepier. The simpler explanation, that this represents Robot experiencing what a biological arm feels like for the first time, matches the first/left half of this centerfold. It is full of representations of the various senses of touch you would expect in an arm. But the second/right half seems to represent senses not usually associated with an arm. Like calpal , I see representations of sight, taste, and smell. The top of the page doesn't seem very ear-like to me and I don't see anything that represents hearing. Maybe Robot is trying to relate to touch, sight, taste, and smell because they are new sensations while the sense of hearing he already has as a robot is not that different than a human.
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Post by imaginaryfriend on Dec 2, 2015 13:21:29 GMT
(shrug) The baleen-like structures may represent hearing.
Also the blue "mouth" in the bottom left corner of today's page forms a progression with three from the previous page that appears to show that Robot is aware of the growth happening in the arm.
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Post by calpal on Dec 2, 2015 13:40:17 GMT
Huh, another curious thing I haven't thought about before: If Kat grows a body for Robot, and he's only just experiencing the sensation of taste for the first time ever, will he need to sustain himself on nutrients? Can he merely absorb them through contact, or will other processes need to be involved that effectively amount to a digestive system? what, if anything, is he going to eat? Will he be able to eat normal human foods, or because of his unnatural chemical composition, will he need to eat something completely different? Because I've been theorizing for a while now that those experiments that the robots have been planting may end up fertilizing the ground for some flora that may not be entirely biological... imagine an entire ecosystem based around Kat's biological creations! Robotic flora and fauna, with Robot being the first to consume the fruits of Her labour...
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Post by saardvark on Dec 2, 2015 13:59:11 GMT
Huh, another curious thing I haven't thought about before: If Kat grows a body for Robot, and he's only just experiencing the sensation of taste for the first time ever, will he need to sustain himself on nutrients? Can he merely absorb them through contact, or will other processes need to be involved that effectively amount to a digestive system? what, if anything, is he going to eat? Will he be able to eat normal human foods, or because of his unnatural chemical composition, will he need to eat something completely different? You're right, I think! The new bio-parts will need to be fed (and given oxygen - respirate) regularly, for energy, growth, and repair. Assuming Kat based the bio-ware on normal cells, it would need the same nutrients normal cells would. In higher organisms the blood system mediates most of this... maybe you could get around the mess of a digestive/respiratory system by "feeding" a robot-blood system with oxygen and pre-digested nutrients periodically. Would need filters to remove CO2 and waste generated...
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Post by imaginaryfriend on Dec 2, 2015 14:38:58 GMT
The organic parts would probably need the same stuff that was in the matrix they were grown in to continue to grow. Whatever that is. Silicon micro-xblocks and carbon nanotubes in some solution that lubricates*? Copper salts? Waste product, if any, might be spent etchant?
*transports and controls movement and regulates energy and heat, reduces friction, keeps out corrosive gasses (like oxygen, probably) and all that good stuff
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freeman
Full Member
That's what I said: blåkläder!
Posts: 240
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Post by freeman on Dec 2, 2015 16:09:56 GMT
I am an engineer specializing in robotics Do YOU get why singularities are such a big deal? Because I, honestly can't. There ought to be some workaround*... *Except placing axises offset with each another so the situation can never arise.
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Post by Gotolei on Dec 2, 2015 16:35:43 GMT
This would be an interesting first page for a newcomer to open the site to. And on an entirely unrelated note, yay for snowflake season. E: and I guess this can count in as a round-number reveal? seems planned ahead after all, at least a small amount. 1590's existence makes sense in light of this two-page spread.
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Post by The Anarch on Dec 2, 2015 16:55:18 GMT
Robot is seeing the world in a whole new way.
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Post by sleepcircle on Dec 2, 2015 18:41:29 GMT
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Post by ctso74 on Dec 2, 2015 18:52:36 GMT
Real question though. Why are there eyeballs...on an arm? Looking back at page 1598, it's not attached to his optical apparatus in any noticeable way. Could Kat's designs be evolving past their intended functions, or is Robot seeing a more complete future version of her work? Or is it just an aesthetic choice on Tom's part? It seems a little too much like the cortical homunculus to be a coincidence, but my first thought was of stem cells. They not only have the genes for muscles, eyes and tendons, but they have the ability to finally become them. If Kay was trying to design for future adaptability, she might want something similar for Robot. That's assuming it wasn't in Diego's original code(we still don't know its origin). Huh, another curious thing I haven't thought about before: If Kat grows a body for Robot, and he's only just experiencing the sensation of taste for the first time ever, will he need to sustain himself on nutrients? Can he merely absorb them through contact, or will other processes need to be involved that effectively amount to a digestive system? what, if anything, is he going to eat? Will he be able to eat normal human foods, or because of his unnatural chemical composition, will he need to eat something completely different? You're right, I think! The new bio-parts will need to be fed (and given oxygen - respirate) regularly, for energy, growth, and repair. Assuming Kat based the bio-ware on normal cells, it would need the same nutrients normal cells would. In higher organisms the blood system mediates most of this... maybe you could get around the mess of a digestive/respiratory system by "feeding" a robot-blood system with oxygen and pre-digested nutrients periodically. Would need filters to remove CO2 and waste generated... There are bacteria that add electrons to their ATP directly from environmental ions and electricity. Not too efficient, but this removes the need for food and respiration. To paraphrase, perhaps "synthetic life finds a synthetic way."
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Post by ctso74 on Dec 2, 2015 18:57:25 GMT
Oops. Forgot to say, ph’nglui mglw’nafh Cthulhu R’lyeh wgah’nagl fhtagn.
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Grabix
Junior Member
Posts: 76
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Post by Grabix on Dec 2, 2015 19:04:22 GMT
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Post by nightwind on Dec 2, 2015 19:34:03 GMT
Robot is growing into a real beauty.
Anyone else thinking about how Renard can possess anything with eyes?
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Post by birdwhisperer on Dec 2, 2015 19:51:29 GMT
The simpler explanation, that this represents Robot experiencing what a biological arm feels like for the first time, matches the first/left half of this centerfold. It is full of representations of the various senses of touch you would expect in an arm. But the second/right half seems to represent senses not usually associated with an arm. Like calpal , I see representations of sight, taste, and smell. The top of the page doesn't seem very ear-like to me and I don't see anything that represents hearing. Maybe Robot is trying to relate to touch, sight, taste, and smell because they are new sensations while the sense of hearing he already has as a robot is not that different than a human. This was the interpretation I came to myself. I imagine robots only have sight, hearing, and some basic sense of touch, but other than that I doubt their senses are very well developed. Sense of sight is probably the strongest, so it seems to me that Robot is trying to comprehend these new sensations by comparing them with the sense he already knows best - sight. "It's like I can see through my arm, dude..." But, as other forum users have pointed, there is a LOT more going on in this image! Which is why I love Gunnerkrigg and its fans. <3
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Post by warrl on Dec 2, 2015 21:51:01 GMT
I think you could dig up all the five senses out from this picture. That can be metaphorical. On the other hand, that would be boring Five senses? Which five did you have in mind?(All those eyes reminds me of Coyote...)
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Post by Daedalus on Dec 2, 2015 21:56:18 GMT
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Post by imaginaryfriend on Dec 3, 2015 2:50:48 GMT
Another possible interpretation of the limb-inappropriate [as far as we know no optics are installed] sense(s) is that Robot is seeing this newtech trip as the realization of his dream/plan/fantasy/programming for robots in the future. If so, maybe he will comment on that but his description will probably be minimalist.
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Post by saardvark on Dec 3, 2015 3:40:15 GMT
There are bacteria that add electrons to their ATP directly from environmental ions and electricity. Not too efficient, but this removes the need for food and respiration. To paraphrase, perhaps "synthetic life finds a synthetic way." Interesting idea... but Im not sure that could power/run/feed a macro-scale complex multicellular structure like the arm that way. Life does "find a way" but that takes millions of years of evolutionary trial and error... Kat has to have it work right now! (Or on a much faster timescale at least... )
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Post by Sauzels on Dec 3, 2015 7:26:38 GMT
Everyone's pointing out how these things do not belong on an arm, but remember that this isn't Robot's reaction to the arm; it's his reaction to the new code that Kat gave him "to emulate how humans control their limbs". Since, as Kat said, humans control limbs by learning as they go, this code is probably very complex (and that probably isn't helped by the fact that it has to mesh with Diego's code) and has to imitate a lot of how the human minds processes information. Kat would also have already put in a bunch of neat sections of code where things besides arms could plop into the interface. That's where the cortical homunculus and all this extra sensory overload would come in.
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Post by foresterr on Dec 3, 2015 8:29:38 GMT
I think you could dig up all the five senses out from this picture. That can be metaphorical. On the other hand, that would be boring Five senses? Which five did you have in mind?(All those eyes reminds me of Coyote...) Classical ones: sight, hearing, smell, touch and smision. Duh!
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Post by gwydion on Dec 3, 2015 9:45:36 GMT
Does anyone else see a aether sephirath head in that tentacle?
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Post by Refugee on Dec 3, 2015 11:12:28 GMT
...this isn't Robot's reaction to the arm; it's his reaction to the new code that Kat gave him.... Kat would also have already put in a bunch of neat sections of code where things besides arms could plop into the interface. That's where the cortical homunculus and all this extra sensory overload would come in. "Robomunculus". Just throwing that out there. But yes, pretty much my exact thinking, except there probably is a whole flood of new sensory data coming in, which the new code hasn't yet learned to process. Robot is experiencing a kind of kinesthetic synesthesia. === I too am waiting for the full two page spread by Tom. For those wondering what the problem is, you can't join the two pages together because there's a strip missing down the middle, so the two sides don't match up.
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Post by zbeeblebrox on Dec 3, 2015 11:16:57 GMT
oh my god Robot, we don't need a doctoral thesis on the subject.
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Post by TBeholder on Dec 3, 2015 17:38:09 GMT
Yeah, I'm pretty sure Kat created an eldritch abomination. I don't see sharp ears. Do we know what the source of the genetic material was? Does it have 47 eyes and 15 not-eyes?
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Post by OrzBrain on Dec 3, 2015 20:08:23 GMT
I am an engineer specializing in robotics*, and I somewhat disagree with this part of message, heh. Especially in the fields of prosthetics, good robot arms are rather hard to make, because there are a bunch of complex feedback loops and degrees of freedom to keep in mind - our arms, which evolution designed for us, work REALLY well compared to most of what we create. We do tend to use a lot of sensors for feedback when designing prosthetics. And it's pretty hard on a small processor. Heh, don't misunderstand me. A robot arm, or any robot part, can be, and often is, a marvel of engineering. Precisely because it's designed. And simplicity in this case is something to be striven for, as much as possible. Biological parts, on the other hand, are not designed at all, as evolution can't design anything (but I understand you used the word figuratively ). They are something that grew up from a bunch of amoebas that decided to gang up on some other amoebas. It's a massively redundant pile of crap that works only well enough not to fall apart (and maybe eat the versions more prone to falling apart). Evolution is a bloody moron. It just had a lot of time on it's hands. (not sure if my being a biologist by education has anything to do with my views on the matter ) I think you could dig up all the five senses out from this picture. That can be metaphorical. On the other hand, that would be boring Ahem. Evolution IS a bloody moron, but you seem to be underestimating just how much a weak optimization process has been able to do with enough time and scope. Just try building a camera out of dirty water and carbon. Or anything with the processing power of the human brain that runs on as little energy and is as small. Oh, and once again made only out of carbon and water. Or something with as many moving tiny parts as a human being that will still sometimes last for 100 years and can self replicate. Go on. Try. I'll wait. Well, actually I'll die waiting because evolution is a moron. But still a very, very big, very, very OLD moron with incredibly streamlined "designs" .
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Post by foresterr on Dec 3, 2015 22:54:21 GMT
Ahem. Evolution IS a bloody moron, but you seem to be underestimating just how much a weak optimization process has been able to do with enough time and scope. Sure, but one other thing it can do very well is to build itself into a corner. And I've read too much Watts not to consider the idea that maybe we are just there I'm not saying we shouldn't crib and upgrade those "designs" achieved by billions of years of a random walk when they work for us (which is just what Kat is doing, I guess), and I'm not saying we're at the point in time when we can one-up evolution on everything. But we will, eventually, and any form of reverence is plain silly. To me at least, of course
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Post by imaginaryfriend on Dec 4, 2015 2:11:44 GMT
In the Gunnerverse evolution may well be a story but self-selection and design are inarguable.
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corvis
Junior Member
"I like this place and could gladly waste my time in it."
Posts: 56
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Post by corvis on Dec 4, 2015 21:14:28 GMT
So, I think this will eventually become a two page spread in the physical book.
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