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Post by Daedalus on Nov 18, 2015 8:00:49 GMT
Infodump!  I become ever more impressed with Kat's control over synthetic biology. So she's deciphered the etheric code to have more control than Diego did?
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Post by Gotolei on Nov 18, 2015 8:06:27 GMT
Re: same body or not, that detaching face panel is new. Separate guinea pig body seems quite likely, especially after those words actually being used.
I wonder if the robots would be able to consciously disable the limiters to an extent, to get ye olde super strength?
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Post by Bontage on Nov 18, 2015 8:22:16 GMT
The haunting nature of panel four...and all those little mounds of dirt...
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Post by Elysium on Nov 18, 2015 8:23:04 GMT
jargon jargon babble babble strange words
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Post by aline on Nov 18, 2015 8:39:34 GMT
I wonder if the robots would be able to consciously disable the limiters to an extent, to get ye olde super strength? Those limiters are not there to make them weaker, but to prevent a too strong voltage from causing spontaneous combustion. So hopefully no one will try.
The new limbs require less electricity to control than the mechanical ones, it doesn't mean they are less strong.
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Post by keef on Nov 18, 2015 9:31:32 GMT
jargon jargon babble babble strange words Hey, that's exactly what I'm reading! |
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Post by Gotolei on Nov 18, 2015 9:38:34 GMT
I wonder if the robots would be able to consciously disable the limiters to an extent, to get ye olde super strength? Those limiters are not there to make them weaker, but to prevent a too strong voltage from causing spontaneous combustion. So hopefully no one will try.
The new limbs require less electricity to control than the mechanical ones, it doesn't mean they are less strong.
It's court/diego science, it's robots. All we know at this point is a rough description and that it's loosely based on how actual muscles work. it's also wildspec flung around to get a dead-on-arrival thread moving, but fat lot of good that did |
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freeman
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That's what I said: blåkläder!
Posts: 238
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Post by freeman on Nov 18, 2015 10:13:24 GMT
jargon jargon babble babble strange words Specially if you are an electical engineer! This jargon jargon babble babble stanger words gets only 2 boxbots out of 5. That said, modifying the existing software to fit the new parameters, to write a new device driver essentially; well done Kat! I mean the botching-prototyping sort of way would have been to just add something current limiting in series with the new limbs, which would imply that because she didn't do that in the first place, she didn't estimate the real life impedance behaviour of her artificial muscles right. |
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Post by Toloc on Nov 18, 2015 11:34:57 GMT
The robot religion has a graveyard full of martyrs. The robots treat the destroyed limbs as whole individuals.( p.1293) Is there resentment that the Angel is too careless with those she sacrifices? This will end well... Nothing to worry about... Nothing at all. |
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Post by keef on Nov 18, 2015 11:37:42 GMT
This will end well... Nothing to worry about... Nothing at all. Yeah, they don't have tears... yet. |
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loner
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Post by loner on Nov 18, 2015 11:52:17 GMT
Kat is such a genius. I can't even.
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Post by Jelly Jellybean on Nov 18, 2015 11:54:58 GMT
The haunting nature of panel four...and all those little mounds of dirt... Those observant bots look like the Court skyline. I suppose Kat could make Building Bots. Imagine living inside robots. |
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Post by aline on Nov 18, 2015 12:06:53 GMT
Those limiters are not there to make them weaker, but to prevent a too strong voltage from causing spontaneous combustion. So hopefully no one will try.
The new limbs require less electricity to control than the mechanical ones, it doesn't mean they are less strong.
It's court/diego science, it's robots. All we know at this point is a rough description and that it's loosely based on how actual muscles work. And that it fries quite easily. Kat just explained why those limiters are there, namely to keep those limbs from frying, not to limit their strength (what would she do that for anyway?). I'm just stating what's written in the comic. You're the one who is making assumptions.
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yhbc
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Post by yhbc on Nov 18, 2015 14:25:08 GMT
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Post by calpal on Nov 18, 2015 14:38:32 GMT
The haunting nature of panel four...and all those little mounds of dirt... Those observant bots look like the Court skyline. I suppose Kat could make Building Bots. Imagine living inside robots. You mean, like living inside an AI? Yeah, that would be something to see, all right... |
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Post by kalechibki on Nov 18, 2015 15:21:03 GMT
there is just something about that last panel that I find very endearing. It is time to figure out how to crop and make new thumbnails in my new tablet only existence.
That said, I also wonder if Kat's statement can be taken more literally - will Robot be able to grow bigger? Or just in more knowledge.
Edit: on second thought, it has been a little time since I last posted. I still like my old avatar.
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Post by ctso74 on Nov 18, 2015 16:25:23 GMT
For some reason, my thoughts were less 'Love Boat' and more 'we serve our robo-host as gut fauna'. I imagine everyone would keep their place tidy, or else the building's 'antibodies' would be summoned. "Okay! Okay! I'm vacuuming. I'm vacuuming. No need to call the T-Cell Enforcers." |
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madragoran
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"If he trully does hurt you, I will rend the flesh from his bones on your word"
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Post by madragoran on Nov 18, 2015 16:26:43 GMT
I really like how Tom had Kat explain why the previous artificial muscle experiments failed. I am not very convinced it is a valid reason, but since this is neither a Materials Science or an Electrical/ Electronic Engineering forum, any technical discussion would look out of place. From Kat's description I would guess the muscle is made of electroactive polymers, i.e. polymers that change shape when voltage is applied to them or vice versa, that is, they can produce electrical voltage when deformed. These materials are already used as sensors, actuators and for energy harvesting applications. Anyone interested in more detail might want a look at this page . It is an old Armwrestling match of EAP robotic arm against human experiment but it looks eerily like what Kat is talking about. Also have a look here[Yes I am more Kat than Annie in real life] Kat rocks. |
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Post by OGRuddawg on Nov 18, 2015 19:17:44 GMT
I know this is completely off-topic, but we have not seen Eglamore in forever. I doubt he will show up in this chapter, but I really want him to weigh in on recent developments.
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Post by aline on Nov 18, 2015 20:20:26 GMT
I really like how Tom had Kat explain why the previous artificial muscle experiments failed. I am not very convinced it is a valid reason, but since this is neither a Materials Science or an Electrical/ Electronic Engineering forum, any technical discussion would look out of place. Yeah, I won't take too much issue on the details, but one thing bothers me: why did Kat need so long to manage not to burn her own work? 4th panel suggests quite a lot of try and error and to me I doesn't make much sense. Well, I know why: plot. But it itches somehow, to see so many painfully crafted prototypes destroyed. It don't see why someone clever and methodical as her couldn't find the proper range of electrical stimuli with more efficiency.
Ah, well. I know. Plot.
The robot religion has a graveyard full of martyrs. The robots treat the destroyed limbs as whole individuals.( p.1293) Is there resentment that the Angel is too careless with those she sacrifices? You know what, I'd be less worried if they *did* resent her, at least a little. That'd be a sign of a relationship somehow approaching the neighbourhood of sanity. But I'm afraid they don't, at all. |
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freeman
Full Member
That's what I said: blåkläder!
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Post by freeman on Nov 18, 2015 21:12:57 GMT
I really like how Tom had Kat explain why the previous artificial muscle experiments failed. I am not very convinced it is a valid reason, but since this is neither a Materials Science or an Electrical/ Electronic Engineering forum, any technical discussion would look out of place. From Kat's description I would guess the muscle is made of electroactive polymers, i.e. polymers that change shape when voltage is applied to them or vice versa, that is, they can produce electrical voltage when deformed. These materials are already used as sensors, actuators and for energy harvesting applications. Anyone interested in more detail might want a look at this page . It is an old Armwrestling match of EAP robotic arm against human experiment but it looks eerily like what Kat is talking about. Also have a look here[Yes I am more Kat than Annie in real life] Kat rocks. I was wondering, if you tried to connect an advanced version of such a muscle to your typical industrial servo controller, how would it do? For starters, it would need an encoder of sorts to tell the servo controller about it's progress, so called "closed feedback". No feedback or insufficient feedback compared to the parameters set in the controller of what the properties of the motors should be, the controller could conclude "MORE DAGGA" and fry the muscle, as described. That said, not that a normal humanoid movements resemble an industrial servo very much, as they usually just get, now digitally through field bus, information of where the wider automation system wants to park the servo axis, maybe also some info about allowable maximum speed, acceleration and deceleration, and off it goes. The speed/time plot usually looks like a trapezoid, very boring. Usually the busses the commands come from are quite boring, normal fieldbuses that arent very fast or give terribly good real-time (essentially low latency) guarantees. A modern industrial robot on the other hand can do much more vivid movements, to a degree. More importantly, there ara axis dangling from axis 4-7 times (usually 6) and how fast they all need to move to achieve desired tool tip trajectory is calculated on the fly as the movement progresses. The ones I've worked with don't have a separate servo controller per axis, instead the motor (always a stepped motor, although the final movement granularity is achieved by very precise braking) power cables and the encoder cables will all go to this one servo control unit, though there exist some buses for servo control applications, where the feedback itself is over that said bus. Any how, should the Court robots use something like that, it woudln't speak CANopen, so the end result for kat is the same: some inpenetrable magic box. Hence, why Kat went to the source spring of the problem, modify the software that controls the motors instead of trying to hack around it. Good thing a girl who made an antigravitation device at year 7 surely doesn't have problems with DH-transformations, instead she can dedicate all her power on undestanding how that's done in the aetheric D-code runes. Then scribling the equivalent of "Magic A is a magic A, DWIM please" to her techno muscles. I really like how Tom had Kat explain why the previous artificial muscle experiments failed. I am not very convinced it is a valid reason, but since this is neither a Materials Science or an Electrical/ Electronic Engineering forum, any technical discussion would look out of place. Yeah, I won't take too much issue on the details, but one thing bothers me: why did Kat need so long to manage not to burn her own work? 4th panel suggests quite a lot of try and error and to me I doesn't make much sense. Well, I know why: plot. But it itches somehow.
What itches me the most is the first bird-wing burned. It would mean she didn't quite understand its electrical properties! Now, accidents happen to everyone, but if most of the muscles weren't burned while attached to Robot's control system, the I don't know. Manufactoring quality control issues? Could happen to anyone. Also, trying to combat interoperativity with a third party system without any specs, definitely could happen to anyone! Still, my peevee here is that the technobable, honestly, wasn't very strong with this one. We've seen it before, Tom drew an earth conductor to a desklamp; he doesn't know everything! |
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corvis
Junior Member
"I like this place and could gladly waste my time in it."
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Post by corvis on Nov 18, 2015 21:22:36 GMT
I really like how Tom had Kat explain why the previous artificial muscle experiments failed. I am not very convinced it is a valid reason, but since this is neither a Materials Science or an Electrical/ Electronic Engineering forum, any technical discussion would look out of place. Yeah, I won't take too much issue on the details, but one thing bothers me: why did Kat need so long to manage not to burn her own work? 4th panel suggests quite a lot of try and error and to me I doesn't make much sense. Well, I know why: plot. But it itches somehow, to see so many painfully crafted prototypes destroyed. It don't see why someone clever and methodical as her couldn't find the proper range of electrical stimuli with more efficiency.
Ah, well. I know. Plot.
The robot religion has a graveyard full of martyrs. The robots treat the destroyed limbs as whole individuals.( p.1293) Is there resentment that the Angel is too careless with those she sacrifices? You know what, I'd be less worried if they *did* resent her, at least a little. That'd be a sign of a relationship somehow approaching the neighbourhood of sanity. But I'm afraid they don't, at all. I'm with you, there. *shiver* But it's really nice to finally see where Kat's research is going and what ramifications it'll have. I'm also happy to see Robot and Paz again. Can't wait to see what Shadow thinks of Robot's new arm! ^^ This is another chapter that'll take us in unexpected directions, if I know how Tom does things here at Gunnerkrigg.... |
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Post by nero on Nov 18, 2015 21:47:53 GMT
I wonder if this means we'll see Robot taking his first steps with his new limbs in the same way Shadow did.
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Post by Daedalus on Nov 18, 2015 22:05:27 GMT
I wonder if this means we'll see Robot taking his first steps with his new limbs in the same way Shadow did. Or Shadow guiding him through it, since Shadow had to learn recently? With all of the focus on robot cults and dysfunctional families, we haven't seen that adorable relationship for a while. It would be nice to visit them |
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Post by Jelly Jellybean on Nov 19, 2015 0:42:30 GMT
For some reason, my thoughts were less 'Love Boat' and more 'we serve our robo-host as gut fauna'. I imagine everyone would keep their place tidy, or else the building's 'antibodies' would be summoned. "Okay! Okay! I'm vacuuming. I'm vacuuming. No need to call the T-Cell Enforcers." A Robot Doctor making a Robot House call: "B113, it appears that you are infested with humans. It is easy to treat, but everyone else in the vicinity will also need to be treated." there is just something about that last panel that I find very endearing... Kat does seem quite pleased with her little pun in that panel. |
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Post by TBeholder on Nov 19, 2015 6:49:05 GMT
Figures. Re: same body or not, that detaching face panel is new. Separate guinea pig body seems quite likely, especially after those words actually being used. See also in Chapter 29. What itches me the most is the first bird-wing burned. It would mean she didn't quite understand its electrical properties! Now, accidents happen to everyone, but if most of the muscles weren't burned while attached to Robot's control system, the I don't know. Manufactoring quality control issues? Could happen to anyone. If only electrical, that would be nice. Electrochemical things are kind of infamous for this. You'd give it one pulse, two pulses, ten pulses, every measurement is as it's supposed to be. You'd test it for half a second, turn off and poke with a finger - it doesn't heat up much. You mean business and plug it in for good, about 10 seconds later it suddenly bursts at seams and fills the room with most evil smoke. Whether gases from electrolysis or short circuit from dendrites, it'll still end in stench. Perhaps the perfect area for those who don't get enough of FUN from Dwarf Fortress anymore.  |
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Post by Druplesnubb on Nov 19, 2015 9:42:39 GMT
I'm predicting a final battle against Robot where Annie etherically turns off his limiters, causing his body to explode.
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Post by OGRuddawg on Nov 19, 2015 18:37:27 GMT
The muscle fibers have those runes/symbols on their purple sheaths!! Didn't notice that at first..
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