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Post by Daedalus on Aug 24, 2015 7:00:32 GMT
More guilt revealed...
I feel ever worse for Tony, but I'm still waiting for the other shoe to drop... Any bets on what that "but" could be for? The Court showing up? Coyote taking an interest? Tony goes on a peyote trip culminating in his arrival at the Court's gate, covered in dust and gibbering about how the world is full of liars?
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Post by Angry Individual on Aug 24, 2015 7:02:29 GMT
Butt.
Also, Annie is taking this in strides it seems.
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Post by Chancellor on Aug 24, 2015 7:03:46 GMT
Siiiiiigh. I mean even I'm starting to feel sorry for the guy at this point.
Every single conclusion he's reached in this flashback has been so hideously, horrendously wrong, and the answers he sought could have been found so easily if he'd looked in the right places.
You stupid, stupid man.
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Post by Trillium on Aug 24, 2015 7:04:13 GMT
Ugh, something happened to get him up and going again.
After the entertainment the creatures tossed him out on his ass? That's cold.
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Post by mimhoff on Aug 24, 2015 7:05:39 GMT
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Post by turniptree on Aug 24, 2015 7:05:33 GMT
Yeah, he's in full-out self-loathing mode.
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Post by Chancellor on Aug 24, 2015 7:06:33 GMT
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Post by imaginaryfriend on Aug 24, 2015 7:07:38 GMT
Liking Antimony's do in panel 4. She should get some product (not what Red uses) and fix it that way from now on.
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Post by edzepp on Aug 24, 2015 7:07:55 GMT
Siiiiiigh. I mean even I'm starting to feel sorry for the guy at this point. Every single conclusion he's reached in this flashback has been so hideously, horrendously wrong, and the answers he sought could have been found so easily if he'd looked in the right places. You stupid, stupid man. I feel like the guy deserves one of those 'You tried' stickers. This is the shaggiest of dog stories. |
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Bill
Junior Member
Posts: 68 
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Post by Bill on Aug 24, 2015 7:09:09 GMT
So he also knows that Annie would have died.
Panel 4:
Did he disown himself on Annie's behalf? Does he consider himself not worthy to be her father? Is Tony agreeing with a large part of the forum regarding his parenting qualifications (for different reasons)?!?
Or does he simply believe that he is no longer the same person? Irrevocably changed?
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Post by Gotolei on Aug 24, 2015 7:10:15 GMT
Yeah, he's in full-out self-loathing mode. I wonder how hammered the guy is by this point. He's had at least what, three glasses? |
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Post by ctso74 on Aug 24, 2015 7:11:07 GMT
He survived off the fat stored there in. Sadly, after he recuperated at a Court healing center, "Tony's Got Back" didn't become the hit that he expected it to be. Thus, all the bitterness towards Annie. |
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Post by edzepp on Aug 24, 2015 7:11:09 GMT
And 'Her father died out there'?
I mean, maybe I'm missing something, but I'm still not entirely sure what kind of father he WAS, considering we've never really seen him parent her before all this.
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Post by smjjames on Aug 24, 2015 7:11:18 GMT
Isn't that the same rock outcropping that he was on during his not-Surma vision?
It almost sounds like he went on a mushroom induced bender or something.
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Post by smjjames on Aug 24, 2015 7:12:30 GMT
And 'Her father died out there'? I mean, maybe I'm missing something, but I'm still not entirely sure what kind of father he WAS, considering we've never really seen him parent her before all this. Probably meant that he hasn't been the same since that experience. |
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Post by arf on Aug 24, 2015 7:13:12 GMT
This sort of thing is usually a job for Jones, but you have backing evidence. |
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Post by edzepp on Aug 24, 2015 7:15:59 GMT
And 'Her father died out there'? I mean, maybe I'm missing something, but I'm still not entirely sure what kind of father he WAS, considering we've never really seen him parent her before all this. Probably meant that he hasn't been the same since that experience. That goes without saying. The wording just caught my eye. The implication that Annie wouldn't recognize him as the person he was. I just wonder who that person was to her. |
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Post by Chancellor on Aug 24, 2015 7:16:49 GMT
Isn't that the same rock outcropping that he was on during his not-Surma vision? It almost sounds like he went on a mushroom induced bender or something. The things that taught him how to create the bone lasers don't exist in the physical realm. But it seems by some method or another (apparently bloody and painful) he could communicate with them. For all we know in order to do so he downed a sack of fungus and beat his face against a rock until he passed out. |
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Post by setrain on Aug 24, 2015 7:17:35 GMT
I'm not seeing a contradiction between the guilt and the cruelty. Guilt is a horrible feeling and it's tempting to make it go away any way you can. One very intuitive way to do that is to find a reason why your victim is less deserving. I'm not saying he actually thinks she deserves it for cheating, but it's a natural instinct to lash out at the source of ones pain, even if the pain is guilt. It's paradoxical, but humans are weird like that. And he does still resent her for taking Surma away, that is clear. He wouldn't choose to kill her, but he still resents her for "squandering" the gift of life. He may at some level expect her to be grateful to him for choosing not to sacrifice her, and resent her for making him care enough not to. All of these motives are very ugly and very human. And I'd believe all of it of him.
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Post by edzepp on Aug 24, 2015 7:19:46 GMT
I'm not seeing a contradiction between the guilt and the cruelty. Guilt is a horrible feeling and it's tempting to make it go away any way you can. One very intuitive way to do that is to find a reason why your victim is less deserving. I'm not saying he actually thinks she deserves it for cheating, but it's a natural instinct to lash out at the source of ones pain, even if the pain is guilt. It's paradoxical, but humans are weird like that. And he does still resent her for taking Surma away, that is clear. He wouldn't choose to kill her, but he still resents her for "squandering" the gift of life. He may at some level expect her to be grateful to him for choosing not to sacrifice her, and resent her for making him care enough not to. All of these motives are very ugly and very human. And I'd believe all of it of him. That's damn good reasoning. |
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Post by Chancellor on Aug 24, 2015 7:19:54 GMT
And 'Her father died out there'? I mean, maybe I'm missing something, but I'm still not entirely sure what kind of father he WAS, considering we've never really seen him parent her before all this. I mean I GUESS there's martial arts training that was a relatively fond memory of him she has? Plus it can be inferred he probably was at least interacting with her relatively frequently, but yeah, we just don't know what Hope-era father Anthony was like, not yet. |
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Post by TBeholder on Aug 24, 2015 7:25:16 GMT
But?.. Far from desert, there are trees. But... This is the shaggiest of dog stories. ...and as such it happened to attract the attention of Coyote. |
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Post by fish on Aug 24, 2015 7:26:28 GMT
Drama Queeen~
I bet Tony has always needed someone like Donny to 'put his foolish behaviour into perspective', just like Kat does for Annie.
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Post by speedwell on Aug 24, 2015 7:26:42 GMT
And 'Her father died out there'? I mean, maybe I'm missing something, but I'm still not entirely sure what kind of father he WAS, considering we've never really seen him parent her before all this. Probably meant that he hasn't been the same since that experience. In the context of the next few pages, it would mean that Tony actually died (instead of in the figurative way he evidently means) and his story went into the ether with him. |
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Post by imaginaryfriend on Aug 24, 2015 7:28:11 GMT
Isn't that the same rock outcropping that he was on during his not-Surma vision? It almost sounds like he went on a mushroom induced bender or something. The things that taught him how to create the bone lasers don't exist in the physical realm. But it seems by some method or another (apparently bloody and painful) he could communicate with them. For all we know in order to do so he downed a sack of fungus and beat his face against a rock until he passed out. Or licked a hoard of toads. I prefer the mental image of Anthony scurrying around in the desert chasing toads than collecting shrooms. |
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Post by edzepp on Aug 24, 2015 7:30:39 GMT
And 'Her father died out there'? I mean, maybe I'm missing something, but I'm still not entirely sure what kind of father he WAS, considering we've never really seen him parent her before all this. I mean I GUESS there's martial arts training that was a relatively fond memory of him she has? Plus it can be inferred he probably was at least interacting with her relatively frequently, but yeah, we just don't know what Hope-era father Anthony was like, not yet. Well, that flashback ended with Annie feeling part of his martial arts costume while he's facing away from her. It implies that there was always a bit of a distance between her and her father, and these tiny things are what she holds on to, because he gives away so little otherwise. This is probably one of the few times she really is seeing what's going on under that mask. |
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Bill
Junior Member
Posts: 68
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Post by Bill on Aug 24, 2015 7:42:52 GMT
Liking Antimony's do in panel 4. She should get some product (not what Red uses) and fix it that way from now on. Reminds me very much of Daedalus. In fact, that would probably make his avatar look even cooler. For that matter, both sides of panel 4 would make for good avatars. Please don't use panel 6. |
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madragoran
Full Member
"If he trully does hurt you, I will rend the flesh from his bones on your word"
Posts: 232
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Post by madragoran on Aug 24, 2015 7:44:46 GMT
"I do not deserve to see her again" Here we go again with the *I* thing. Oh well poor you. They dumped you out in the wilderness. and *you* decided never to return to your child. I can see how your little mind works and I can feel sad about any human being being hurt but I do not feel any forgivness or "Oh he had his reason, so it's ok" feelings sweeping over me.
Also, while pondering about the comic I realised the whole "Your dad loves you but we need to carry out this complicated thing so that you can see it" thing bothers me in terms of literary device whatchmacallit. It's like divine intervention (Deus ex machina). Plus if you look at it from Anthony's side, Donald is betraying his trust as a friend. Donald is doing this with the best intentions and we as omnicient readers are all for those intentions but you know what hell is paved with, no?
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Post by aline on Aug 24, 2015 8:11:40 GMT
Time for the Court to enter the scene again. Did he disown himself on Annie's behalf? Does he consider himself not worthy to be her father? Is Tony agreeing with a large part of the forum regarding his parenting qualifications (for different reasons)?!? Or does he simply believe that he is no longer the same person? Irrevocably changed? It's not about analysis of parenting qualification at this stage. He's at the bottom end of depression and he thinks the world would be a better place without him in it, in particular for his daughter. That thought is irrational, but the guy stopped being rational a long time ago. I'm not seeing a contradiction between the guilt and the cruelty. Guilt is a horrible feeling and it's tempting to make it go away any way you can. One very intuitive way to do that is to find a reason why your victim is less deserving. I'm not saying he actually thinks she deserves it for cheating, but it's a natural instinct to lash out at the source of ones pain, even if the pain is guilt. It's paradoxical, but humans are weird like that. And he does still resent her for taking Surma away, that is clear. He wouldn't choose to kill her, but he still resents her for "squandering" the gift of life. He may at some level expect her to be grateful to him for choosing not to sacrifice her, and resent her for making him care enough not to. All of these motives are very ugly and very human. And I'd believe all of it of him. I didn't see any hint of resentment of any kind towards Annie in his story up till now. While all you say are possibilities, I don't think any of those are his motivations for his current behavior. Again, we're still missing an important part of the story. He was forced to go back to the Court and his daughter when he clearly didn't want to. I'm guessing some other actions of his are not his own decision or are the result of manipulation. The overall coldness probably does stem from his guilt, though. No longer thinking of himself as Annie's father, he is unable to give back any of her affection for him. He sees himself as a damaging existence to Annie. He's still forced to be in her life, so he's trying to do that while keeping his distance as much as humanly possible while still being in the same room, because that's the only coping mechanism he's found. I don't think he really understands how deeply he's hurting her by doing that. The world from where he stands is a completely different thing than what we're seeing. And the worst is, even when he finds out, I doubt it can crush him more than he already is. There's not much left to break down. |
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Post by justcurious on Aug 24, 2015 8:16:03 GMT
Well it's looking more and more like those who suggested that he is trying to make Annie hate him are right.
His problem is seeing faults in himself where they are not and this reinforcing a tendency to not see his actual faults.
He overestimates his capabilities and expects everyone else to as well. He over emphasizes his husband and father's role as provider, protector and rescuer. He expects perfection of himself and regards failure as a moral fault. He under emphasizes his role as nurturer and guide. Because he fails his exaggerated expectations as a protector an rescuer he thinks he is worthless and doesn't try to fulfill his role as nurturer. He would rather see himself as bad than as incapable. His difficulty understanding others aggravates all this.
Waiting to find out how much of this is right,
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