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Post by Daedalus on Dec 31, 2014 7:58:44 GMT
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Post by Gotolei on Dec 31, 2014 8:03:03 GMT
That cross in the background of the robots.. and have we seen the model slumped against the tree before? Also wondering what's with the flames behind Rey's head. early post again  E: Just noticed the emblem on Kat's clothes. That looks familiar. |
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Post by feraldog on Dec 31, 2014 8:04:08 GMT
Well, I'm pretty sure the central bit with the tree/triangles is a spin on the Tree of Life. When counted with Mort's helmet and the teeny robot, plus recent events... Well I'm not sure what it would predict, but Kat creating life and Annie being a psychopomp surely have something to do with it.
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Post by Bontage on Dec 31, 2014 8:05:47 GMT
That moment when you take a helmet straight to the Feels...
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Post by Fishy on Dec 31, 2014 8:09:38 GMT
The Court doesn't look all too safe anymore. Assuming that Kat's half symbolizes the Court in any way, that is. At the very least, not desirable compared to what's on the other side. It feels like things are about to get dark.
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Post by Nepycros on Dec 31, 2014 8:12:07 GMT
Well, once the link is fixed to actually show the page, I'll remark on its beauty. Very nice. |
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Post by glyphomatrix on Dec 31, 2014 8:12:48 GMT
Hi, lurker here.
Just want to speculate a few stuff. It's interesting that the upper triangle has the letters Gamma, Zeta, and...Iota. Who's Iota? Is it supposed to be 'J' because there's no letter J in Greek Alphabet? (Jones?)
At the lower triangle, the symbol of mercury, upward-pointing triangle (a common fire symbol), and SM. What is SM supposed to represent? If the triangle is fire since it points to Annie, is SM something related to Kat?
The second lower branch of the tree lie two symbols, the Antimony Symbol and the Creator symbol, the former of which could be interpreted as psychopomp symbol as the chapter on RotD indicates. On the upper branch, at the opposite of the crown (fire elemental) symbol we see an eye-like design. Perhaps something that indicates a second role for Kat aside from being the Creator? Or is it simply an alchemical symbol for gold/sun?
Also, the green fairy is looking up to Annie.
ETA: the treatise is freakin' gorgeous.
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Post by Max on Dec 31, 2014 8:13:12 GMT
Definitely 6th. The first volume has two treatises.
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Post by Chancellor on Dec 31, 2014 8:20:36 GMT
That cross in the background of the robots.. and have we seen the model slumped against the tree before? Also wondering what's with the flames behind Rey's head. early post again E: Just noticed the emblem on Kat's clothes. That looks familiar.It's not a cross. Looks like a figure. Maybe Robot. |
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Post by Epsilon Rose on Dec 31, 2014 8:22:27 GMT
Interesting. Lots of symbolism there, most of which I am woefully unqualified to comment on.
I will say that the robot heads look like a field of graves, which is a mite ominous.
Also, is it just me or does the moon look like the Eclipse logo?
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brokshi
Full Member
About as furious as my icon appears ecstatic.
Posts: 108
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Post by brokshi on Dec 31, 2014 8:27:32 GMT
It seems like the leaves are glowing on Kat's side. Maybe indicative of future advances in her bio-engineering.
Anyone have a clue about the eye icon across from Annie's crown though?
EDIT: Also, the ground beneath Annie's feet has no grass. It looks either like farmland or like burnt land, and I can't figure out which.
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Post by Daedalus on Dec 31, 2014 8:34:18 GMT
Well, once the link is fixed to actually show the page, I'll remark on its beauty. Very nice. (wince) sorry, my mistake. I screwed up the BBCode. It seems like the leaves are glowing on Kat's side. Maybe indicative of future advances in her bio-engineering. Anyone have a clue about the eye icon across from Annie's crown though? Either a symbol of some all-knowing aspect of the Angel, or the symbol of divinity and the sun? The circumpunct also represents gold, the goal of the artificer's craft - that she achieves her goal, maybe? Or is that wildspec going to far? I like the glowing leaves idea, but it could just show moonlight reflecting. Especially since Kat's never seemed interested in plants at all (plus plants are more of a Forest motif). Here's everything I've got:
Right hand side: There's Green on the right hand side, with Mort's helmet. Coyote is the sun, which is funny because he previously stole the moon. Ysengrin's body looks stronger, and he's more of a natural-looking wolf. Perhaps he does become more mentally and physically stable after Chapter 44. Left hand side: significant religious overtones, with a figure (of Robot S13 perhaps?) with outspread arms suggesting the image of a cross in the distance. The moon is always on the Court side, as it has always been. Vines are encroaching on the stone wall - more interference from the Forest? Overall, very dingy. I expect to see darker plots. Annie and Kat are separated entirely, but they seem friendly enough. Good omen for the two of them? Simpler alchemic diagrams than usual this time - all English-seeming letters on the Court side, I think, while the Forest has Greek letters Gamma and Delta. The Forest is more traditionalist? I can't divine the significance of the alchemy, really. The top is Zeta or Z so either Greek or Latin (probably the former). I'm curious about "SM". I feel I should know the symbol on the bottom of the tree, but I can't place it. It resembles Bismuth, but it's different. Overall less symbols than usual, actually. Still absolutely gorgeous art, Tom! Some of this was ninja'd while I was writing, sorry. |
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Post by zarathustra30 on Dec 31, 2014 8:50:25 GMT
Is the doll Hetty? The tree is growing from the dead. The world continues to spin.
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Post by alliek on Dec 31, 2014 8:51:48 GMT
Had to come out of lurking for this new treatise! Looking up SM, the best I got was the chemical element Samarium, which goes with the Mercury symbol also being featured in the lower triangle. Not sure what it could mean. After searching on google, I found out that the circle with the dot in its center on the highest branch is a common symbol for the Sun solarsystem.nasa.gov/multimedia/gallery/all_symbols.jpg |
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brokshi
Full Member
About as furious as my icon appears ecstatic.
Posts: 108
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Post by brokshi on Dec 31, 2014 8:55:40 GMT
I like the glowing leaves idea, but it could just show moonlight reflecting. Especially since Kat's never seemed interested in plants at all (plus plants are more of a Forest motif). You can see the leaves are brightened and there's light on the branches around the leaves though. That, and there's actual moonlight on the tree (you can see it well on the trunk, just below the branches). |
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Sadie
Full Member
I eat food and sleep in a horizontal position.
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Post by Sadie on Dec 31, 2014 8:56:46 GMT
The symbol of the circle with the dot first showed up here: www.gunnerkrigg.com/?p=642 on the King Robot's sign. So it's definitely robot related. |
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Post by Daedalus on Dec 31, 2014 8:57:17 GMT
Had to come out of lurking for this new treatise! Looking up SM, the best I got was the chemical element Samarium, which goes with the Mercury symbol also being featured in the lower triangle. Not sure what it could mean. After searching on google, I found out that the circle with the dot in its center on the highest branch is a common symbol for the Sun solarsystem.nasa.gov/multimedia/gallery/all_symbols.jpgHm. Tom's always drawn Mercury like this (first panel). The symbol on the bottom of the tree looks like a fusion of Bismuth and Mercury or Antimony. The dotted circle can also represent Gold in alchemy. And, as pointed out above, the Robot King invokes it. EDIT: Also, the ground beneath Annie's feet has no grass. It looks either like farmland or like burnt land, and I can't figure out which. My bet is on burnt. That would make sense. Plus farming doesn't seem the Forest's style, heh. Just noticing the ornate border. That's new, and actually reminds me of the Foglios' style. |
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Post by Ashley Y on Dec 31, 2014 8:57:53 GMT
Just want to speculate a few stuff. It's interesting that the upper triangle has the letters Gamma, Zeta, and...Iota. Who's Iota? Is it supposed to be 'J' because there's no letter J in Greek Alphabet? (Jones?) I would guess Jack. |
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Post by Daedalus on Dec 31, 2014 9:05:49 GMT
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Post by farstrider on Dec 31, 2014 9:22:41 GMT
Just want to speculate a few stuff. It's interesting that the upper triangle has the letters Gamma, Zeta, and...Iota. Who's Iota? Is it supposed to be 'J' because there's no letter J in Greek Alphabet? (Jones?) I would guess Jack. I was just going to say that the Iota probably symbolizes Jack, considering his connection to Zimmy and Gamma. ~FS |
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Post by matoyak on Dec 31, 2014 10:19:49 GMT
That cross in the background of the robots.. and have we seen the model slumped against the tree before? E: Just noticed the emblem on Kat's clothes. That looks familiar.I don't believe it's a cross. Looks like a figure...Robot/S13 I presume? I do believe we've seen that model before... not certain where though. Looks like an artist's pose-able figure drawing thing. And good catch about the emblem on Kat's clothes. Who's Iota? Is it supposed to be 'J' because there's no letter J in Greek Alphabet? (Jones?) If the triangle is fire since it points to Annie, is SM something related to Kat? I like the idea others have proposed that it relates to Jack in some way. Also possible that it is a new character, I suppose. SM... Science Machine? I will say that the robot heads look like a field of graves, which is a mite ominous. Also, is it just me or does the moon look like the Eclipse logo? Yeah, I thought it was a bunch of graves as well. Didn't see the robot eyes until the second time I looked at it. (Also, you're totally right - it does look like the Eclipse logo). Right hand side: <snip> Coyote is the sun, which is funny because he previously stole the moon. <snip> It's interesting that this is the first time in any of the Treatise that we have a moon symbol (I assume it is a moon symbol, behind Ysengrin there?) on the Forest side, and a direct representation of Coyote as the sun at the same time. Left hand side: significant religious overtones, with a figure (of Robot S13 perhaps?) with outspread arms suggesting the image of a cross in the distance. The moon is always on the Court side, as it has always been. Vines are encroaching on the stone wall - more interference from the Forest? Overall, very dingy. I expect to see darker plots. I think it's Robot/S13 as the religious cross figure as well. Interesting that he is BEHIND the robots. Implications of puppet master status? Normally one "Leads the flock" from the front of the congregation, not the back. And while we do have the moon on the court side as usual, we seem to ALSO have a potential couple of symbols of the sun: the upper-left symbol on the tree, and the symbol behind Renard (a parallel/counterpoint to the moon symbol behind Ysengrin). I take the sun/moon symbolism being on both sides as evidence of a mixing going on - be it a dust-up or just general cultural exchange due to there now being mediums on each side. I suspect the vines to be showing a crumbling down of the strong stone, more than encroachment from the forest. I agree about the general dingy-ness of the piece...doesn't imply too much happiness is on the way, especially on the Court side of things. |
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Post by keef on Dec 31, 2014 10:29:58 GMT
Kat is wearing Diego's apron.
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Post by Chancellor on Dec 31, 2014 10:30:29 GMT
Has anyone else noticed that Annie's Etheric Scar only appears in the most recent two Treatises? Is it becoming more significant as time bears on?
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Kuraru
Junior Member
The mind is just a plaything of the body, is it not?
Posts: 75
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Post by Kuraru on Dec 31, 2014 10:30:54 GMT
I think "SM" might represent Smitty. Note that it's on the Court's side, and that the alchemical symbol for fire - possibly representing Antimony - is on the Forest's side, due to their roles as the Court and Forest's mediums. I'm not 100% sure what the Mercury represents, but it could be Parley? The element is named after the Roman god, who was known for his speed and mobility, so it could represent her powers of teleportation. Kat is wearing Diego's apron. Ah, you're right. She seems to be dressed exactly like Diego, possibly due to her new status as the Creator. |
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Post by Ophel on Dec 31, 2014 10:50:11 GMT
My thoughts (Wall of Text Warning) --- On the triangles:
They represent fire (upwards) and water (downwards), which makes sense for Annie having a up-triangle on her corner of the bottom (water) triangle.
But also, fire is represented by the wand, and water by cup.
According to the Wiki (2014), wands (fire) is peasantry class and have creativity and will as its faculty. While cups (water) is clergy class and have emotions and love as its faculty.
Also top triangle - isosceles, bottom triangle - equilateral. What do these mean?
--- On the Greek letters:
It's clear the letters Zeta and Gamma refer to the people they are named with. However, the letter Iota appears a mystery.
Looking at their names, this can refer to either or both Jack and Jenny. Jack is a diminutive of John and Jenny is a diminutive of Jane in medieval times. In Biblical Greek, they are Ionnes and Ionna respectively. (behindthename.com, 2014)
This may be a hint that now, Jack and Jenny should be considered together, especially in light of what dynamic these two have going in the chapter we just finished.
And of course, that means these four characters probably have some great role involving each other with regards to the story, and not just between themselves if we the position of this relationship (the big up [fire] triangle) into account too. Maybe.
--- Just on the Mercury symbol: Taken from the reference in Wiki for the Mercury symbol - (wall of text warning) The crescent above symbolizes receptivity to perceptions from the superconscious, linked through whole-spirited involvement at the conscious level, and grounded in the material realities as perceived through the collective unconscious. Mercury is gives us the elementary functions of the intellect, and allows us the means to communicate our ideas with one another, bridging the superconscious, the conscious, and the unconscious as we interrelate with one another. If the crescent, receptive upward to the superconscious, is overaccentuated, we can be too idealistic. If the circle is overstressed, we can be intellectually arrogant. An overemphasized cross may indicate calculating or manipulative communications motivated by primal crass materialism, driven from the subconscious. Awareness of universal laws of cause and effect, and how we are all stewards of energies larger than ourselves, maximizes Mercury to function as precise and accurate communication and conveyance of ideas. reference Also, Daedalus, the symbol you linked (soul Rey symbol), isn't exactly Mercury. Well, I tried to find some relations but the symbol doesn't appear to represent Mercury, at all. However, it does represent Quick Lime. ( PDF ref) Link to me the relation of that symbol to Mercury if you have it. --- The tree itself: I counted, and the leaves on both sides are of equal numbers (15), so that's something. There's also just too much info about the "Tree of Life" to post it among this one. Also, "Tree of Knowledge". It also only vaguely resembles the Sephirot, imo. It has the top symbol the the 3 pairs of symbols at the edge, but no symbols in the middle of the tree. --- Lastly, the doll: I agree with zarathustra30 that the doll represents Hetty. It's a bit blurry but I think the symbol on the doll head is Hetty's symbol. Well, that's my opinion. |
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Post by dinmaker on Dec 31, 2014 11:16:39 GMT
Has anyone else noticed that the grass that Annie is standing on is dead/dying? possible significance behind that? It could be that she is a corrupting influence on the forest or it could just be that her Fire Elemental side is getting stronger (strong enough to burn/wilt the grass around her)
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Post by glyphomatrix on Dec 31, 2014 11:23:38 GMT
I was just going to say that the Iota probably symbolizes Jack, considering his connection to Zimmy and Gamma. ~FS Ahh I didn't remember him! It's very likely yeah. Jack, or Jenny. My take is that it's probably the former since he's also the only one who has gained the ability for zimmy-gamma style telepathy. Also, someone in Somethingawful pointed out the long humanoid shadow behind Annie, possibly representing her father. Kat has Court staff badge on her Diego apron. Edit: the brick wall on the Court foreground also has some vines creeping on it. Possibly some Forest presence/influence? |
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Post by TBeholder on Dec 31, 2014 12:12:00 GMT
Also, the Moon is still furrowed.  That cross in the background of the robots.. and have we seen the model slumped against the tree before? Also wondering what's with the flames behind Rey's head. 1) Yes. Though either with more clothes, or charred. 2) see (1) Also, the ground beneath Annie's feet has no grass. It looks either like farmland or like burnt land, and I can't figure out which. One doesn't really exclude the other... |
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Post by foresterr on Dec 31, 2014 12:21:23 GMT
The "S?" type of alchemical symbols seem to typically mean "spiritus ?", or "spirit of something", that is, essence of something.
I think SM in this Treatise stands for "spiritus movens", that is, the essence of movement. Or life itself, if you will.
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Post by arf on Dec 31, 2014 12:29:37 GMT
I agree that the'I' is for Iack.
'SM' may be 'Spiritus Mundi' (World Spirit), and could refer to Paz. (she really ought to be in there somewhere, don't you think!?)
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