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Post by jda on Apr 20, 2020 16:08:26 GMT
I am left assuming it was always meant to the result of Coyote excreting his dominance. Ewwww, I don't like the sound of that! (I think you have an auto-correct fail of exerting -> excreting there.... ) Well, in Coyote's case, I think that is exactly what happened: Coyote always treated Ysengrin like doo doo...
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Post by pinegreenjellybean on Apr 21, 2020 1:05:35 GMT
Aw man that was awesome. Really reminded me why I love the side stories so much. Also, can I just say that I love how, in both videos, Magnolia keeps poking at Tom like, "so, that SHIP is pretty neat, isn't it? Y'know, that totally ADORABLE teen romance and drama? Hmmmm?" and then Tom keeps being sort of awkwardly vague and non-committal about it. My impression is that Tom is aware of how his fans (specifically, that breed of fan known as the "shipper") can get very touchy about the teen romance plotlines in his comics, and he has to be very careful what he says or risk a huge controversy...but Magnolia is also one of those fans, and has been for a long time, so she can't help bringing it up and fangirling over it a little. I'm one of the fangirls too. :T Not much I can do about it. I kind of had an internal fangirl moment when Tom said that Annie was kinda flirting with Jack in Faraway Morning, and it *could* have gone in that direction (if I'm remembering the video right...) I'm not sure if the whole Jack thing is going to go anywhere or not. A lot of people wanna see Annie have some sort of relationship. While I agree that she has a lot more on her plate, I'd like to see something like that too. Knowing Tom, though, she might end up seeing some random new character near the end of the strip. (Not uncommon in the realm of dating to first start seeing someone you didn't know as a preteen, but not too satisfying for the fans.) Plus I like Jack and his connection with Annie. Oh well.
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Post by Jelly Jellybean on Apr 21, 2020 22:16:11 GMT
I am left assuming it was always meant to the result of Coyote excreting his dominance. Ewwww, I don't like the sound of that! (I think you have an auto-correct fail of exerting -> excreting there.... ) Doh! But that is much funnier.
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Post by wies on Apr 22, 2020 7:12:11 GMT
He is doing it all for shit and giggles.
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Post by madjack on May 3, 2020 0:37:56 GMT
Chapter 69 is up. If these are starting up again, this might be the last chapter in the book?
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Post by imaginaryfriend on May 3, 2020 13:05:08 GMT
I'd think the end of the book should be coming up pretty soon.
After that... Only one more book to go?
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Post by Druplesnubb on May 4, 2020 10:28:16 GMT
I don't know, I'm not willing to declare that we're in the endgame until we meet Brinnie again.
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Post by pyradonis on May 4, 2020 13:23:59 GMT
People have been asking "Is this the endgame?", ", "Is the comic nearing its end?" etc. for years now...
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Post by migrantworker on May 4, 2020 15:24:35 GMT
People have been asking "Is this the endgame?", ", "Is the comic nearing its end" etc. for years now... I'm not sure answering those questions is necessary to bring a proper closure to the story. I mean, the comic is about a girl going through her formative years while attending a boarding school. There is a lot of interesting stuff happening around her to be sure, but primarily it is about this particular life stage of the aforementioned girl. The questions may well be answered within her lifetime, but not necessarily during her remaining time in school. So I would look more for events which would bring this life stage to a close: graduation (3 years and a bit away still), expulsion (averted for the time being thanks to Tony's return), maybe being promoted into a job (not really on the horizon if it ever was a possibility in the first place), or leaving for the outside world (tricky), or getting pregnant/giving birth (but there are no prospective fathers). Or on a grander scale, the Court disbanding (but is a scientist's job ever done?) or being destroyed (but it currently holds the line). For the time being, we can always proclaim each new chapter to be The Last One. And we will be right eventually, goddammit...
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Post by pyradonis on May 4, 2020 21:14:08 GMT
People have been asking "Is this the endgame?", ", "Is the comic nearing its end" etc. for years now... I'm not sure answering those questions is necessary to bring a proper closure to the story. I mean, the comic is about a girl going through her formative years while attending a boarding school. There is a lot of interesting stuff happening around her to be sure, but primarily it is about this particular life stage of the aforementioned girl. The questions may well be answered within her lifetime, but not necessarily during her remaining time in school. So I would look more for events which would bring this life stage to a close: graduation (3 years and a bit away still), expulsion (averted for the time being thanks to Tony's return), maybe being promoted into a job (not really on the horizon if it ever was a possibility in the first place), or leaving for the outside world (tricky), or getting pregnant/giving birth (but there are no prospective fathers). Or on a grander scale, the Court disbanding (but is a scientist's job ever done?) or being destroyed (but it currently holds the line). For the time being, we can always proclaim each new chapter to be The Last One. And we will be right eventually, goddammit... According to the opening narration, the comic is about "the strange events that took place" while she attended this school. So I would expect most, if not all, of said strange events explained when the story ends. In any case, as you said, it is still several in-comic years before Annie could graduate and right now there is no reason why she would leave GKC before her graduation.
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Post by todd on May 5, 2020 0:24:58 GMT
Or on a grander scale, the Court disbanding (but is a scientist's job ever done?) or being destroyed (but it currently holds the line). It's possible that the price for solving the problem with Loup and the forest-folk could be the Court having to call off its experiments and redirect its scientific studies away from the ether to other areas that won't cause so much trouble.
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Post by imaginaryfriend on May 5, 2020 2:47:40 GMT
People have been asking "Is this the endgame?", ", "Is the comic nearing its end?" etc. for years now... Sadly, I think there's only three threads that need to be tied up for the comic to conclude. The main one is the Kat/Annie relationship, the most pressing one is the Coyote/Ys/Loup thread, and the last would be how the immediate crisis in the Court is resolved in the short term. In passing we'll probably get answers/conclusions to another three loose ends, but I think the bulk of them will remain wild and free and that's fine. Maybe the next comic will pick up some of them. For example: If I were Mr. Siddell I absolutely wouldn't resolve the issue of what the Court is/what they're working on/omega device in Gunnerkrigg Court; I'd carry that right on over to the next comic or whatever.
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Post by wies on May 5, 2020 11:11:59 GMT
People have been asking "Is this the endgame?", ", "Is the comic nearing its end?" etc. for years now... Sadly, I think there's only three threads that need to be tied up for the comic to conclude. The main one is the Kat/Annie relationship, the most pressing one is the Coyote/Ys/Loup thread, and the last would be how the immediate crisis in the Court is resolved in the short term. In passing we'll probably get answers/conclusions to another three loose ends, but I think the bulk of them will remain wild and free and that's fine. Maybe the next comic will pick up some of them. For example: If I were Mr. Siddell I absolutely wouldn't resolve the issue of what the Court is/what they're working on/omega device in Gunnerkrigg Court; I'd carry that right on over to the next comic or whatever. Why would you? I mean, if Tom raises explicitly the question of what the Court is at several points in this comic (and even a side-comic), wouldn't it be unsatisfying if he didn't resolve that in this comic?
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Post by migrantworker on May 5, 2020 11:52:52 GMT
Or on a grander scale, the Court disbanding (but is a scientist's job ever done?) or being destroyed (but it currently holds the line). It's possible that the price for solving the problem with Loup and the forest-folk could be the Court having to call off its experiments and redirect its scientific studies away from the ether to other areas that won't cause so much trouble. But would they? Panel 3 here shows that historically, they simply ignored the Forest. On the other hand, perhaps Loup has finally managed to capture their attention.
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Post by todd on May 5, 2020 12:52:03 GMT
But would they? Panel 3 here shows that historically, they simply ignored the Forest. On the other hand, perhaps Loup has finally managed to capture their attention. I was thinking more along the lines of the Court finally having an epiphany about their work, that it had been misguided, that it had brought about more harm than good, and calling it off in a "come to their senses" manner.
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Post by pyradonis on May 5, 2020 13:39:46 GMT
Sadly, I think there's only three threads that need to be tied up for the comic to conclude. The main one is the Kat/Annie relationship, the most pressing one is the Coyote/Ys/Loup thread, and the last would be how the immediate crisis in the Court is resolved in the short term. In passing we'll probably get answers/conclusions to another three loose ends, but I think the bulk of them will remain wild and free and that's fine. Maybe the next comic will pick up some of them. For example: If I were Mr. Siddell I absolutely wouldn't resolve the issue of what the Court is/what they're working on/omega device in Gunnerkrigg Court; I'd carry that right on over to the next comic or whatever. Why would you? I mean, if Tom raises explicitly the question of what the Court is at several points in this comic (and even a side-comic), wouldn't it be unsatisfying if he didn't resolve that in this comic? This. Also, how do you presume to know there will be another comic in the same universe?
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Post by migrantworker on May 5, 2020 16:19:34 GMT
But would they? Panel 3 here shows that historically, they simply ignored the Forest. On the other hand, perhaps Loup has finally managed to capture their attention. I was thinking more along the lines of the Court finally having an epiphany about their work, that it had been misguided, that it had brought about more harm than good, and calling it off in a "come to their senses" manner. To be honest, I don't think it is realistic. Large organisations typically have so much inertia that questioning their modus operandi just doesn't tend to happen... unless perhaps when it is imposed on them from above by an even bigger organisation. And even then, resistance is fierce. And not necessarily for sinister reasons - simply put, too many people have their position, or indeed livelihood, depending on doing what they always have done.
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Post by MarineMonarch on May 5, 2020 17:17:29 GMT
Based on the vibe I've got from the comic, I wouldn't be totally surprised if we get more of a series of unfortunate events-esque "we will never get the full picture" story, although in this case I do suspect that we'll get a greater idea of what the court is up to. So more of a "we can never know all the lose ends" story. Primarily because that's more or less how real life works - you never really know all the surrounding circumstances to things, and sometimes stuff just drops out of your life without neat resolutions. It's not uncommon for this comic to use anti-climax to emphasise that in lieu of potentially more satisfying climaxes.
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Post by imaginaryfriend on May 5, 2020 21:23:38 GMT
Sadly, I think there's only three threads that need to be tied up for the comic to conclude. The main one is the Kat/Annie relationship, the most pressing one is the Coyote/Ys/Loup thread, and the last would be how the immediate crisis in the Court is resolved in the short term. In passing we'll probably get answers/conclusions to another three loose ends, but I think the bulk of them will remain wild and free and that's fine. Maybe the next comic will pick up some of them. For example: If I were Mr. Siddell I absolutely wouldn't resolve the issue of what the Court is/what they're working on/omega device in Gunnerkrigg Court; I'd carry that right on over to the next comic or whatever. Why would you? I mean, if Tom raises explicitly the question of what the Court is at several points in this comic (and even a side-comic), wouldn't it be unsatisfying if he didn't resolve that in this comic? Yes. But it isn't necessary to the narrative for all the mysteries to be resolved for Antimonies' story to wrap up and the reader not knowing the deep secret(s) of the Court would keep it a rich location for further stories.
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Post by pyradonis on May 5, 2020 23:01:29 GMT
Why would you? I mean, if Tom raises explicitly the question of what the Court is at several points in this comic (and even a side-comic), wouldn't it be unsatisfying if he didn't resolve that in this comic? Yes. But it isn't necessary to the narrative for all the mysteries to be resolved for Antimonies' story to wrap up and the reader not knowing the deep secret(s) of the Court would keep it a rich location for further stories. Regardless that not answering one of the story's central questions violates all rules of good writing I know about, finding out what Gunnerkrigg Court is is also one of Antimony's central goals since the early chapters. Coyote basically breaks the fourth wall saying she must find it out later. How could her story be wrapped up without an answer to this? Moreover, if the story would end without an answer to a question readers have been waiting for for over a decade now would leave lots of people feeling trolled and pretty pissed, and rightly so.
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Post by imaginaryfriend on May 6, 2020 0:51:32 GMT
Yes. But it isn't necessary to the narrative for all the mysteries to be resolved for Antimonies' story to wrap up and the reader not knowing the deep secret(s) of the Court would keep it a rich location for further stories. Regardless that not answering one of the story's central questions violates all rules of good writing I know about, finding out what Gunnerkrigg Court is is also one of Antimony's central goals since the early chapters. Coyote basically breaks the fourth wall saying she must find it out later. How could her story be wrapped up without an answer to this? Moreover, if the story would end without an answer to a question readers have been waiting for for over a decade now would leave lots of people feeling trolled and pretty pissed, and rightly so.
Are the deep mysteries of the Court central to the story of Antimony Carver(s)? Gunnerkrigg Court is the story of her coming-of-age (more or less) and the strange events that Antimony encounters. [edit2] The former can sometimes be included in the latter. [/edit2] What's central to the story is Antimony(s) relationship to Kat, the Wood, and the Court [edit] and her dad, though that one's either concluded and in epilogue phase or about to be. She's already made her decision with the 'pomps unless something happens to change things, but that won't necessarily resolve for a good while.[/edit] I agree that some people are going to be frustrated with the end of this comic but there may be another comic in the same universe, if not right away perhaps eventually.
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Post by wies on May 6, 2020 7:12:58 GMT
I agree (like you and MarineMonarch said) that likely not all questions will be answered at the end of Gunnerkrigg Court. I think that is good! But what the court is one of the most central question, if not *the* most, and how Annie's environment gets more complex and confusing as she grows up and wants to discover and explore is a coming-of-age tale in itself. It is a neat metaphor for how it feels like to grow up in this world imo. That said, it is Tom's comic, it is of course in his rights to not answer that question if he thinks that is good for the story.
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Post by pyradonis on May 6, 2020 11:24:50 GMT
Regardless that not answering one of the story's central questions violates all rules of good writing I know about, finding out what Gunnerkrigg Court is is also one of Antimony's central goals since the early chapters. Coyote basically breaks the fourth wall saying she must find it out later. How could her story be wrapped up without an answer to this? Moreover, if the story would end without an answer to a question readers have been waiting for for over a decade now would leave lots of people feeling trolled and pretty pissed, and rightly so.
Are the deep mysteries of the Court central to the story of Antimony Carver(s)? Gunnerkrigg Court is the story of her coming-of-age (more or less) and the strange events that Antimony encounters. [edit2] The former can sometimes be included in the latter. [/edit2] What's central to the story is Antimony(s) relationship to Kat, the Wood, and the Court [edit] and her dad, though that one's either concluded and in epilogue phase or about to be. She's already made her decision with the 'pomps unless something happens to change things, but that won't necessarily resolve for a good while.[/edit] I agree that some people are going to be frustrated with the end of this comic but there may be another comic in the same universe, if not right away perhaps eventually. I am sorry, but I cannot follow you. While Annie is the main character, she does not even appear in every chapter. Only the court and its machinations are omnipresent. What the Court is, and what it wants, are central questions of the story. Whole chapters have been devoted to this mystery. The protagonist wants to solve it. Everything that happens in the story, and everything important that happened before the story's present, is influenced by it, which might even include the protagonist's conception. The story is named after the Court, not after Annie. If this does not get answered in the comic, if we get a guy wish a mushroom cap instead who tells us that "Your princess is in another castle", then Tom would only make sure that nobody would want to read the next comic.
Also, what makes you think the sideplot with Annie and her dad is concluded? It was just brought up again that he is still acting differently with the two Annies. Not to mention that he has yet to actually tell her why he abandoned her. Or, you know, apologize.
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Post by imaginaryfriend on May 7, 2020 2:59:13 GMT
Are the deep mysteries of the Court central to the story of Antimony Carver(s)? Gunnerkrigg Court is the story of her coming-of-age (more or less) and the strange events that Antimony encounters. [edit2] The former can sometimes be included in the latter. [/edit2] What's central to the story is Antimony(s) relationship to Kat, the Wood, and the Court [edit] and her dad, though that one's either concluded and in epilogue phase or about to be. She's already made her decision with the 'pomps unless something happens to change things, but that won't necessarily resolve for a good while.[/edit] I agree that some people are going to be frustrated with the end of this comic but there may be another comic in the same universe, if not right away perhaps eventually. I am sorry, but I cannot follow you. While Annie is the main character, she does not even appear in every chapter. Only the court and its machinations are omnipresent. What the Court is, and what it wants, are central questions of the story. Whole chapters have been devoted to this mystery. The protagonist wants to solve it. Everything that happens in the story, and everything important that happened before the story's present, is influenced by it, which might even include the protagonist's conception. The story is named after the Court, not after Annie. If this does not get answered in the comic, if we get a guy wish a mushroom cap instead who tells us that "Your princess is in another castle", then Tom would only make sure that nobody would want to read the next comic. Also, what makes you think the sideplot with Annie and her dad is concluded? It was just brought up again that he is still acting differently with the two Annies. Not to mention that he has yet to actually tell her why he abandoned her. Or, you know, apologize. I think we're going to have to agree to disagree but I would like to add two thoughts. I think that the Court is near-omnipresent because it's the location that the story and backstory largely happens in. We'll see Antimony(s) relationship with the Court decided in the comic and where she winds up but I wouldn't count on much else. With regard to Anthony Carver, he's achieved a happy-ish dysfunction with Antimony(s) and I don't expect to see drastic improvement beyond what they've got now. Don't get me wrong, Antimony(s) have learned something about themself from the experience of being duplicated and Antimony(s) may improve how she interacts with Anthony a little... but Anthony will remain Anthony.
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Post by pyradonis on May 7, 2020 10:54:58 GMT
I am sorry, but I cannot follow you. While Annie is the main character, she does not even appear in every chapter. Only the court and its machinations are omnipresent. What the Court is, and what it wants, are central questions of the story. Whole chapters have been devoted to this mystery. The protagonist wants to solve it. Everything that happens in the story, and everything important that happened before the story's present, is influenced by it, which might even include the protagonist's conception. The story is named after the Court, not after Annie. If this does not get answered in the comic, if we get a guy wish a mushroom cap instead who tells us that "Your princess is in another castle", then Tom would only make sure that nobody would want to read the next comic. Also, what makes you think the sideplot with Annie and her dad is concluded? It was just brought up again that he is still acting differently with the two Annies. Not to mention that he has yet to actually tell her why he abandoned her. Or, you know, apologize. I think we're going to have to agree to disagree but I would like to add two thoughts. I think that the Court is near-omnipresent because it's the location that the story and backstory largely happens in. We'll see Antimony(s) relationship with the Court decided in the comic and where she winds up but I wouldn't count on much else. With regard to Anthony Carver, he's achieved a happy-ish dysfunction with Antimony(s) and I don't expect to see drastic improvement beyond what they've got now. Don't get me wrong, Antimony(s) have learned something about themself from the experience of being duplicated and Antimony(s) may improve how she interacts with Anthony a little... but Anthony will remain Anthony. You're not curious about why Anthony gets along differently with the Annies?
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heranje
Full Member
Oh super wow!
Posts: 175
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Post by heranje on May 7, 2020 11:44:34 GMT
I think that some of the 'background' mysteries of the Court are probably going to be left unanswered, going into the general air of mystery that the Court has. But I think that over the many years he's been doing this story, Tom has shown himself to be a far more competent storyteller than one who would throw out a bunch of central plot points and just leave them unresolved. The nature of the Court and its goals, the Seed Bismuth, Kat's ascension to robo-godhood, why Anthony acts differently around certain people and what causes him to treat the two Annies so differently - all of these are such central points and have been getting so much attention even in recent chapters* that it would honestly be pretty sloppy storytelling to just leave them hanging. And - I still have enough faith in Tom that I think we can expect to see /most/ of the unanswered questions, even beyond these ones, getting some kind of resolution before the story ends. I'd say that's just me being optimistic, but I don't think Tom has given us any reason to doubt that he'd make sure the story arrived at a satisfying conclusion before ending it. Given that Gunnerkrigg Court appears to be his main livelihood, I also can't imagine he'd be in any rush to end it unless he had a plan for a new comic to take its place more or less immediately - whether that's set in the Court or not.
* besides the Seed Bismuth? I think it's a while since we've heard anything about that
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Post by todd on May 7, 2020 12:47:46 GMT
Tom might leave many of the mysteries about the Court forever unanswered on the grounds of "By this time, the revelation could never live up to the audience's expectations".
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Post by imaginaryfriend on May 7, 2020 21:52:25 GMT
You're not curious about why Anthony gets along differently with the Annies? I think I already know why. Fannie wasn't a "witch." She's his daughter from before his daughter said some stuff to him that hurt his feelings. Courtnie said back in ch. 70 that she had been able to reconnect with her father but that they aren't talking and then demonstrates why on the following page. Courtnie uses Surma's memory as a bludgeon to get her way with things there and again on the next page. Anthony likely concedes in silence but Fannie challenges the tactic and later, when Fannie breaks down in tears, Courtnie realizes that she's been being a "witch." Hopefully this means that Fannie has already noticed that she's being a "witch" to her father also and will reconsider how she interacts with Anthony even if we don't see it in the comic but maybe there will be a scene where Fannie says something to her about it. It will take a while but Anthony will eventually get over the things Courtnie has said to him but he will still be Anthony. He'll probably treat them slightly differently even after he warms up to Courtnie. I suppose that isn't fair, since Fannie would have fallen into the same pattern of behavior if she'd been the one who'd returned from the forest but he's only human. I think that some of the 'background' mysteries of the Court are probably going to be left unanswered, going into the general air of mystery that the Court has. But I think that over the many years he's been doing this story, Tom has shown himself to be a far more competent storyteller than one who would throw out a bunch of central plot points and just leave them unresolved. The nature of the Court and its goals, the Seed Bismuth, Kat's ascension to robo-godhood, why Anthony acts differently around certain people and what causes him to treat the two Annies so differently - all of these are such central points and have been getting so much attention even in recent chapters* that it would honestly be pretty sloppy storytelling to just leave them hanging. And - I still have enough faith in Tom that I think we can expect to see /most/ of the unanswered questions, even beyond these ones, getting some kind of resolution before the story ends. I think we'll see enough progress on those unsolved mysteries that the three key issues can resolve, maybe learn a few more factoids in passing. For example, for Antimony(s) ultimate disposition to the Court to be resolved she'll have to learn at least something about their intermediate plans for her and the Wood and maybe maybe maybe a little more about what they do or who the decision-makers are. And if there's still two of her she can choose two different paths if they want. Likewise with Kat we'll have to see how the Court reacts to the robot revolution (assuming they find out) and if she becomes beatified or whatever to find out where Kat winds up so that we'll know Antimony(s)' disposition relative to Kat, at least in the short term. I'd say that's just me being optimistic, but I don't think Tom has given us any reason to doubt that he'd make sure the story arrived at a satisfying conclusion before ending it. Given that Gunnerkrigg Court appears to be his main livelihood, I also can't imagine he'd be in any rush to end it unless he had a plan for a new comic to take its place more or less immediately - whether that's set in the Court or not. I dunno. I think it would be understandable if, after working on this comic for so long, he was itching to move on to a completely different project or even get a normie job for a while just for a change. In closing I would like to add that Proboards made this post take a lot longer to write as it keeps deleting the text in the links. Luckily it showed in previews this time... though it keeps changing back the corrections over and over so I guess I'll have to post it and then edit it.
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heranje
Full Member
Oh super wow!
Posts: 175
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Post by heranje on May 7, 2020 22:44:29 GMT
imaginaryfriendYou make good points, and you're certainly right that those plot threads don't /have/ to be fully resolved for the story to reach a semi-satisfying conclusion. I just think it'll be a better story if at least most of them are more or less fully resolved, and I'd like to believe my favourite webcomic will end in the best way possible - and not before its time, so to speak. Time and Tom will tell. When it comes to Tony, the part of your explanation I struggle with is that I've always assumed there is something etheric about his situational social anxiety, and the fact that Annie seemed to be the one exception to the alone-with-one-person rule. Was child!Annie in the hospital a witch as well? I guess we don't know, to be fair, but I do find it difficult to believe that the difference is just down to the difference in the ways the Annies act(ed - they seem to be becoming more similar as time goes on).
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Post by IvDead on May 8, 2020 1:21:41 GMT
When it comes to Tony, the part of your explanation I struggle with is that I've always assumed there is something etheric about his situational social anxiety, and the fact that Annie seemed to be the one exception to the alone-with-one-person rule. Was child!Annie in the hospital a witch as well? I guess we don't know, to be fair, but I do find it difficult to believe that the difference is just down to the difference in the ways the Annies act(ed - they seem to be becoming more similar as time goes on). My take on this is that after six months Tony's mental image of Annie, of his daughter, is that of Courtnie, not of Fannie. Which I don't find so surprising, human memory is quick to reassociate and overwrite things/concepts with the help of extensive sensory exposure*, and in six months the new associations would have easily preference over the old ones. Which is kind of sad because it means that, while Tony intellectually acknowledges that Fannie is (technically) his daughter too, she has lost much of the emotional baggage that Tony's subconscious associates with his concept of "my daughter". * which Courtnie would probably go out of her way to provide, since she wants him to know that she is no longer as she was before.
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