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Post by Nnelg on Jan 14, 2014 7:21:32 GMT
I came up with this theoretical chain of events as an idle musing, and thought I'd share it. It accounts a potential war which could take place between the Court and the Forest in the near future, in what might be the absolute worst-case scenario of the fallout from attempting to free Jeanne. - The device tethering Jeanne to the Annan Waters is destroyed.
- Built-up energy is suddenly released, unmaking the Annan Waters itself. The bridge crumbles like so much plaster as the gorge seals itself up.
- Seismic waves combined with etheric backlash and the wrath of Jeanne cause devastating amounts of destruction and loss of life on both sides of the former gorge.
- Many people in both the Court and the Forest blame each other for the disaster, but not officially.
- The creatures of "Ysengrin's Army" vent their aggression with lightning raids on Court facilities and personnel, mainly at night.
- A few of the more militaristic members of high-level court staff respond, without official sanction, by setting out in force with many heavy-duty robots. Armed with chainsaws and flamethrowers, they indiscriminately ravage a large swath of woodland. The political fallout is tremendous.
- Ysengrin finally snaps for good. He forcibly mobilizes the Forest for total war. The raids are ramped up in scale, frequency, and organization. Largely Human-hating demographics such as Shadowmen are the first to flock to Ys' cause, but even members of more peaceful races like Faries and the Anwyn join up eventually.
- Coyote sits back with popcorn. The Headmaster finally gives a ****.
- Lacking any sort of stockpile of military hardware, members of the Court have to make do with what they've got. The few assault rifles are in the hands of the militarist faction, whom are supported by reprogrammed robots modified into armored death machines. The Etheric Extraction Plant is modified to literally sap the strength of the opposition, which is then used to power research equipment turned experimental weapons.
- Non-combatants still make up a majority on both sides, but still suffer greatly from the conflict. The fighters make little to no distinction between enemy soldier and civilian - sometimes not even their own.
- Days of fighting pass, and both the Court and the Forest suffer great casualties.
NOTE: The preceding could be seen as the best-case scenario for open war in Gunnerkrigg. The following is entirely speculative, and rapidly reaches ludicrous (if still plausible) levels of carnage.- Coyote, his plans having played out satisfactory, finally intervenes.
- Desperate, the Court deploys their last resort: Zeta, and other weaponized Chester students.
- R̺̗̣̖̖͡i̛̯͈͖͎͙̞͕͔p̷̳̺̞̦̥ͅs̟͕̲̣̖̤̹̬̺͞ ̷҉̙f̝̹̖̺̮̭̭̗ͅo҉̕͏͍̝̝̻͔r̯͎̼̩͡m̹͓̺̩͇̻̀ ҉̡҉͓̘͕̬̼͉̤i̷̶͏͖͔͎̭̜ͅṉ̡̛͓͎̗͝ ҉̲̱̘̩̪̣̗͉t̘͇̕h́͜͏͓̗͎̠e̟̤̩̞͓̲͟͡ ̹̰͓̝̦͔̣͟f̩̼̳̖̱͞a̸̠̼͎̰̫͉͕̰̮b̶͎̦͖͔̘̰̪̬͘͠r̵͓̤͖͓i̩̯̮̖̮̩͇̕͞c̵̙̳͙̜̙̙̬̭͘̕ͅ ̨҉͈̤͉̩̯o͍͠f͢҉̘̬̬̥̮̫͡ ̴̯͈͓̥͢r̥̹̟͓̗̺͖ḛ͓̝̟̹̥̹̻̣͢͝a̝̩̟̖̕l҉̖̬̬̗į̲̟͟͞t͏̥̟̲͓͠y̨̱̗̙͍̮̘̫.͉̭̳̺̥̜̩͉.̵̰̫̹̬̠̱͕͟ͅͅ.̱̻͙̘
- The Forest escalates to Eschatological Warfare.
- The Court detonates a Quasi-Nuclear device.
- As a result of the destruction of Jones, the Seed Bismuth, and/or the Ether itself, the world ceases to exist.
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Post by keef on Jan 14, 2014 13:28:55 GMT
Could be worse could be raining... As long as the weather is fine I'll join Coyote with more popcorn and a few bottles of beer.
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Post by Daedalus on Jan 14, 2014 15:20:30 GMT
- Coyote sits back with popcorn.
He knows what's up. I'm hanging out with this guy. The first four bullet points aren't too far from possible. And Coyote watching whatever happens and laughing is very likely as well. |
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Post by GK Sierra on Jan 14, 2014 17:19:30 GMT
The creatures of "Ysengrin's Army" vent their aggression with lightning raids on Court facilities and personnel, mainly at night. They would be uncommonly good at this, no doubt. I've always thought that the first few hours of the war would go to the Forest, simply because of the fact that the Forest has shadow people on the Court side, and the Court has no such assets in the Forest. The Court would be a much less hostile operating environment for Coyote's people then vice versa. I'd always imagined it as an official response, with only a few teachers and perhaps Jones dissenting. I guess it all depends- Llyanwellyn might be the highest figure in the Court, but I doubt it. Still, his attitude is probably a good indicator of how other Court functionaries view the Forest. I think you're spot on about the experimental weapons, but I think the Court has a conventional armory somewhere as well. At the very least, they've got a huge untapped industrial capability, plus infinite free labor. It takes days to re-set a factory line, but once it's running you could have a rifle turned out every few seconds. We're also not taking into account a bunch of other nasty cards the Court could play to turn things in it's favor- chemical and biological agents. In addition, the Anwyn don't seem to have made use of gunpowder (heck, they don't seem to have made it past the Iron Age- tree-bending magic has made them complacent), as Coyote already has an absolute monopoly on force and life is pretty stable and unchanging there, politically and economically. No need to learn how to fight beyond hunting, so they wouldn't have the proper tactics, techniques and procedures to engage enemies using gunpowder- let alone the equipment. It seems to me that Coyote would have to take a much more active role if he expected victory. Given what he did to the moon, he could probably make them vanish in an instant. Perhaps that's why they're pumping the ether out of the air- to try to protect themselves. |
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Post by keef on Jan 14, 2014 17:52:36 GMT
I guess it all depends- Llyanwellyn might be the highest figure in the Court, but I doubt it. It's odd, I feel the same about our headmaster, and I noticed several others making remarks in that respect. Formspring confirms |
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Post by eyemyself on Jan 14, 2014 18:39:38 GMT
The creatures of "Ysengrin's Army" vent their aggression with lightning raids on Court facilities and personnel, mainly at night. They would be uncommonly good at this, no doubt. I've always thought that the first few hours of the war would go to the Forest, simply because of the fact that the Forest has shadow people on the Court side, and the Court has no such assets in the Forest. The Court would be a much less hostile operating environment for Coyote's people then vice versa. I've always been under the impression that Shadow was the only shadow person at the court. |
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Post by GK Sierra on Jan 14, 2014 19:20:41 GMT
They would be uncommonly good at this, no doubt. I've always thought that the first few hours of the war would go to the Forest, simply because of the fact that the Forest has shadow people on the Court side, and the Court has no such assets in the Forest. The Court would be a much less hostile operating environment for Coyote's people then vice versa. I've always been under the impression that Shadow was the only shadow person at the court. Well we did see several flee when that tree/dog thing ventured into the Court and was cut down by the games teacher. We have to assume this has happened more than once. I find it interesting that even after all that Jeanne drama, even after all the trouble the went through, things are still getting across the divide. |
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Post by keef on Jan 14, 2014 20:36:48 GMT
I've always been under the impression that Shadow was the only shadow person at the court. We don't know how many other shadow-people live at the court. Possibly his parents, and the other(s) arriving at the same time. |
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Post by Nnelg on Jan 14, 2014 20:46:22 GMT
the Forest has shadow people on the Court side, and the Court has no such assets in the Forest. As far as we know... The Court would be a much less hostile operating environment for Coyote's people then vice versa. I disagree. Urban terrain would be like an alien planet to most Forest-dwellers; the sights and smells are all wrong, and their instincts would oft lead them awry. On the other hand, the Court undoubtedly has extensive topographical maps of Gillite Wood, and their pioneer division should be the envy of many nations' armies. On a related note, I just thought of another weapon the Court would deploy in this conflict: sensory-overloading devices like those used in riot control (but slightly tailored for Forest creatures). In fact, I can imagine that the Court already has robots armed with such systems, like they mantain chainsawbots to deal with treedogtaxis. I'd always imagined it as an official response, with only a few teachers and perhaps Jones dissenting. I guess it all depends- Llyanwellyn might be the highest figure in the Court, but I doubt it. Still, his attitude is probably a good indicator of how other Court functionaries view the Forest. I deliberately chose the words I did to emphisize that the Court isn't a singular entity. And I believe that while the Headmaster's attitude is representative of the uncaring nature of the Court's collective decisions, the majority of individuals are just trying to get along the best they can. I think you're spot on about the experimental weapons, but I think the Court has a conventional armory somewhere as well. Well, I assume the Court has to keep their internal police stocked - although I'd heard that British cops don't carry guns. Perhaps whatever the UK equivelent of SWAT is? (Actually, that's probably Eglamore's job.) So, basically I don't see any Court-funded modern armories lying around; maybe a scattering of personal firearms (including scratch-built laser rifles). There might be some old equipment lying around from past conflicts with the Forest, though. At the very least, they've got a huge untapped industrial capability, plus infinite free labor. It takes days to re-set a factory line, but once it's running you could have a rifle turned out every few seconds. They might not have days; and even that's assuming they have any sort of assembly line set up - the Court is a research facility, not a factory. They're more geared for small custom orders. But even using just rapid prototyping, they could give every inhabitant of the Court a rifle within a week. No, it's ammunition that is the limiting factor. Overall, I judged that such mobilization would simply not be cost-effective given the nature of this conflict. We're also not taking into account a bunch of other nasty cards the Court could play to turn things in it's favor- chemical and biological agents. Not to mention paranormal. (See my point regarding Zimmy.) No need to learn how to fight beyond hunting, so they wouldn't have the proper tactics, techniques and procedures to engage enemies using gunpowder- let alone the equipment. Never underestimate 'primitive' technology. Wounds from arrows and spears are often more severe than bullet wounds, and hunting/ambush tactics are exactly what they'd need to neutralize an AR's range and firepower advantages. (Although I doubt they lack a martial traditionnof some sort.) It seems to me that Coyote would have to take a much more active role if he expected victory. Given what he did to the moon, he could probably make them vanish in an instant. Perhaps that's why they're pumping the ether out of the air- to try to protect themselves. Indeed, Coyote is a total game-changer. He's the Forest's equivelent to a nuke. But I'm confident that the Court could put up a fight against him if they were forced to. |
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Post by eyemyself on Jan 14, 2014 20:55:10 GMT
I've always been under the impression that Shadow was the only shadow person at the court. We don't know how many other shadow-people live at the court. Possibly his parents, and the other(s) arriving at the same time. Ahha, my mistake. I had forgotten about that. |
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Post by GK Sierra on Jan 14, 2014 21:10:59 GMT
Well, I assume the Court has to keep their internal police stocked - although I'd heard that British cops don't carry guns. Perhaps whatever the UK equivelent of SWAT is? (Actually, that's probably Eglamore's job.) So, basically I don't see any Court-funded modern armories lying around; maybe a scattering of personal firearms (including scratch-built laser rifles). There might be some old equipment lying around from past conflicts with the Forest, though. Beat cops don't, no, but there are are armed bobbies- they call them "firearms units". Diplomatic protection teams and security for Downing Street and Buckingham Palace etc., are also armed. I suppose since the last real conflict they would have had was back when bows and arrows were the ranged weapon of choice, they wouldn't have need of stockpiling more modern equipment. The reason I think such a thing might exist is because WoT has said that other places like Gunnerkrigg Court exist in the world, and that Her Majesties Government is well aware of the Court. I doubt they would leave such an important place unprotected, unless there is some kind of explicit non-interference agreement. and even that's assuming they have any sort of assembly line set up - the Court is a research facility, not a factory. They're more geared for small custom orders. But even using just rapid prototyping, they could give every inhabitant of the Court a rifle within a week. No, it's ammunition that is the limiting factor. Overall, I judged that such mobilization would simply not be cost-effective given the nature of this conflict. They have a massive amount of warehouse space plus raw materials and tools (Kat has managed to get hold of everything from a lathe to a bio-reactor, so they definitely have the stuff around), that's all you really need to start a production line. Ammunition isn't any harder than the device that uses it- gunpowder is a simple recipe, all you need is saltpeter, sulfur and charcoal, three things that are easy to come by. Get an overhead press to stamp in the round, a filler and a conveyor belt and bang- you've got a box o' bullets. The gunsmiths in the tribal areas of Pakistan like Peshawar do it with hand-crank lathes and shoe polish, and they turn out some of the finest stuff on earth. |
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Post by keef on Jan 14, 2014 22:08:44 GMT
I suppose since the last real conflict they would have had was back when bows and arrows were the ranged weapon of choice Thought about that. Coyote arrived when the conflict had already started. Coyote decided to come to Europe when he heard about Renard. He heard a story about him swept across the ocean on the wind.. I think that story came with ships full of people including one "wandering eye", who eventually told Coyote about Renard. So after Columbus. So after the invention of firearms. Much simpler: Why is it called Gunnerkrigg, and one of the founders the artilleryman? (I really like nitpicking) |
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Post by todd on Jan 14, 2014 23:33:01 GMT
In addition, the Anwyn don't seem to have made use of gunpowder (heck, they don't seem to have made it past the Iron Age Given that the faerie-folk of mythology (which Tom probably based the Anwyn on; I'm certain that he derived their name from Annwn, the Otherworld of Welsh legend) shunned iron, I'd be surprised if the Anwyn made it to the Iron Age at all. I had a crazy little vision once of the Court and the Forest going to war with each other at last, and all of Annie's attempts to make peace have failed - until Kat invents a time machine that can send Annie back to the foundation of the Court. Annie goes back in time with it; just moments after Kat sent her back, the Court and the Forest use their most powerful weapons, which combine to reduce the entire region (the Court, Gilltie Wood, and the Annan Waters) into a smoldering crater. The only thing left alive is Coyote, who looks at the remains, shrugs, and says that he was starting to get bored with it anyway, and he'll just head back to the southwestern U.S. to see if anything exciting's going on there. He passes the Guides (who've shown up, naturally, with so many lives lost in the final battle that need guiding) with a casual greeting; Muut says with a sigh that he and his fellow guides will be in for a lot of extra work. In the past, Annie meets with the Founders, tells them her story (with it revealed that they're the ones whom she was addressing back when she was the narrator), and somehow convinces them to change things so that the Court and the Wood never develop hostilities towards each other - then fades away as the timeline she was part of is replaced with something else, meaning that the events in the webcomic never happened (a bit of a cop-out ending, admittedly). |
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Post by GK Sierra on Jan 14, 2014 23:39:36 GMT
(a bit of a cop-out ending, admittedly). I ended my first sci-fi novel with a time paradox. Took me a hell of a long time for me to wrestle it into making sense. The first few tries it always came off as Deus Ex Machina, and not the good kind. That's probably why I have a filing cabinet full of rejection letters.  |
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Post by Nnelg on Jan 15, 2014 0:10:45 GMT
The reason I think such a thing might exist is because WoT has said that other places like Gunnerkrigg Court exist in the world, and that Her Majesties Government is well aware of the Court. I doubt they would leave such an important place unprotected, unless there is some kind of explicit non-interference agreement. I think the existence of such an agreement is implied by Word of Tom, since he said the Court and Parliament "pretty much leave each other alone". The only recent exception I could think of would be WWII. But even then, the Court most likely raised its own militia and/or armed robots. They have a massive amount of warehouse space plus raw materials and tools (Kat has managed to get hold of everything from a lathe to a bio-reactor, so they definitely have the stuff around), that's all you really need to start a production line. Ammunition isn't any harder than the device that uses it- gunpowder is a simple recipe, all you need is saltpeter, sulfur and charcoal, three things that are easy to come by. Get an overhead press to stamp in the round, a filler and a conveyor belt and bang- you've got a box o' bullets. Black powder hasn't been used in firearms since the late 1800's; although I'm sure the Court would make do. But you're forgetting an important part of a cartridge: the primer. I'm no expert, but encapsulating a shock-sensitive explosive inside a metal casing seems like something that would require specialized equipment. Of course the Court could doubtlessly overcome all these hurdles - even as a rush job - but given that bullets aren't very efficient at fighting trees, the effort required to do so would be utilized on more cost-effective projects instead. |
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Post by Daedalus on Jan 15, 2014 3:15:25 GMT
but given that bullets aren't very efficient at fighting trees... Incendiary bullets are. Just sayin'. |
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Post by Nnelg on Jan 15, 2014 3:32:20 GMT
but given that bullets aren't very efficient at fighting trees... Incendiary bullets are. Just sayin'. Dense wood is actually pretty difficult to ignite, even when dry and dead instead of magically animated. |
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Post by Daedalus on Jan 15, 2014 4:59:36 GMT
Ah, but we have etheric incendiary bullets, made by our resident fire elemental. It will burn just fine.
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Post by Señor Goose on Jan 15, 2014 5:49:43 GMT
Ah, but we have etheric incendiary bullets, made by our resident fire elemental. It will burn just fine. At that rate she may as well just set the trees on fire on her own. |
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Post by GK Sierra on Jan 15, 2014 7:40:52 GMT
Ah, but we have etheric incendiary bullets, made by our resident fire elemental. It will burn just fine. At that rate she may as well just set the trees on fire on her own. I think that's what he was implying. Although, I think Antimony will be on the Forest side of any conflagration, at least at first, until she realizes that Coyote has a darkness in him just as deep as the Court. Has anyone else noticed that in each successive treatise, Annie and Kat move farther away from each other? |
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Post by Lightice on Jan 15, 2014 8:09:27 GMT
Has anyone else noticed that in each successive treatise, Annie and Kat move farther away from each other? I don't think that's the case. In early treatises they were standing apart. In the latest they are close and holding hands. To me it seems more that they are bridging the gap between the Court and the Forest. |
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Post by Nnelg on Jan 15, 2014 21:10:57 GMT
If Annie would be inclined to side with the Forest, Kat would no doubt lean more towards the Court. Now, I expect the girls to adopt a more neutral anti-war stance, but I can imagine Kat helping her parents and Eglamore with the defend against Ys's army, and Annie joining an Anwyn raiding party aimed at weapons depots, etc. Ah, but we have etheric incendiary bullets, made by our resident fire elemental. It will burn just fine. Than that is what the Court would deploy, instead of firearms. Oh, and just because I'm pedantic... Dense wood needs a great deal of time to burn as well. In the short run, you've only made your opponent deadlier.  |
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Post by Daedalus on Jan 15, 2014 21:11:55 GMT
If Annie would be inclined to side with the Forest, Kat would no doubt lean more towards the Court. Now, I expect the girls to adopt a more neutral anti-war stance, but I can imagine Kat helping her parents and Eglamore with the defend against Ys's army, and Annie joining an Anwyn raiding party aimed at weapons depots, etc. Ah, but we have etheric incendiary bullets, made by our resident fire elemental. It will burn just fine. Than that is what the Court would deploy, instead of firearms. Oh, and just because I'm pedantic... Dense wood needs a great deal of time to burn as well. In the short run, you've only made your opponent deadlier. As Ysengrin quickly figured out. |
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