[1299] If we could just get to it

[Gotolei]

way to talk a bunch guys

[Señor Goose]

I was about to start a thread, but I decided to let someone else do it for a change.

[sapientcoffee]

Do go on, George.

[polioman]

They're totally gonna go down there!

oohohoohhhhhh shiiitttttt!

[Gotolei]

Yeah Smitty, I wonder where she might have gotten that luck?

Jan 8, 2014 8:01:59 GMT Señor Goose said:

I was about to start a thread, but I decided to let someone else do it for a change.

Heh well I'm not stopping anybody, this one actually took about twice as long as usual..

[Señor Goose]

I wonder if they'll construct a robotic arrow-retreiving device that will proide the device transit to out of the water.

[arf]

How are they getting down there?

Oh...bip!

Plus something to do with a thermos and coathangers.

[eyemyself]

Annie seems uncharacteristically hesitant. Parley, on the other hand, is determined. This will be interesting.

[yhbc]

So, this would be one of them exposition pages, then?

[crater]

these nerds and their hobby of undoing everything that separates them from the forest

smitty gives his expert opinion about luck

I have a better tablet than kat

[TBeholder]

Yup... It's never the easy way.

Jan 8, 2014 12:37:57 GMT eyemyself said:

Annie seems uncharacteristically hesitant. Parley, on the other hand, is determined. This will be interesting.

Maybe, Annie is shy about the fact she lost her blinker?

[ctso74]

Cue Dramatic Thunder!

I wonder if Rey is even aware of all this. His advise, though disapproving, could be very valuable. It's a pity Jeanne doesn't have "eyes", or he could be an effective weapon.

[eyemyself]

Jan 8, 2014 14:00:53 GMT TBeholder said:

Yup... It's never the easy way.

Jan 8, 2014 12:37:57 GMT eyemyself said:

Annie seems uncharacteristically hesitant. Parley, on the other hand, is determined. This will be interesting.

Maybe, Annie is shy about the fact she lost her blinker?

According to Anja you can never lose a blinker stone. Yes Annie has the ability to separate from hers now thanks to the fairies, but I am betting she still has it stashed away and has the ability to find and call it just as easily as before. 

[aaroncampbell]

Side note from Monday's discussion: that is decidedly not a bokken after all, but appears to be a wooden replica of Coyote's tooth in giggle-blade form, as some have surmised. (Yes, one could argue that that would classify it as a bokken, but you know what I'm saying.)

[eyemyself]

Jan 8, 2014 14:47:06 GMT aaroncampbell said:

Side note from Monday's discussion: that is decidedly not a bokken after all, but appears to be a wooden replica of Coyote's tooth in giggle-blade form, as some have surmised. (Yes, one could argue that that would classify it as a bokken, but you know what I'm saying.)

Hmmmm, that means that either one of our pals has some carving skills or someone else has been brought into the loop on the presence of Coyote's tooth. (Or perhaps a robot crafted it at Kat's behest?)

[alpacalypse]

I love that Kat is taking precautions to just jumping down there, but does she have any idea what that arrow does? Going down there is risky enough, but going in without knowing anything about what it is you are trying to examine isn't the best of ideas. Its not like Jeanne is going anywhere or wrecking havoc on people. I would at least try and spend some more time looking up information relating to then, examining historical documents around that time, even if just to find some clues. Perhaps this searching was all done off screen.

[aaroncampbell]

Jan 8, 2014 15:00:53 GMT alpacalypse said:

I love that Kat is taking precautions to just jumping down there, but does she have any idea what that arrow does? Going down there is risky enough, but going in without knowing anything about what it is you are trying to examine isn't the best of ideas. Its not like Jeanne is going anywhere or wrecking havoc on people. I would at least try and spend some more time looking up information relating to then, examining historical documents around that time, even if just to find some clues. Perhaps this searching was all done off screen.

What's really blowing my mind is that Kat's going to be reverse-engineering the arrow, from a programming/analytical perspective. And yet, we know from her last attempts at doing that on Diego's designs that that doesn't really work, so I'm kinda worried. Granted, she understands the paradigm of the systems much better now, but even so -- what exactly was going on in Diego's head? How did he think about these systems when he made them? Not as a programmer, I'm sure. An engineer, maybe? A doctor? Perhaps a magician? Clearly he was genius, and also more than a little crazy, and also lovestruck over someone who did not return his affections (now that I think about it, that could describe Dr. Disaster just as well, hehe) but whatever his state of mind, it surely was quite a bit different from Kat's. How is she going to "get into his head" as she attempts to unravel his design?

Disclaimer: I've worked in the anti-spyware industry and done lots of reverse-engineering of viruses and other malware, so this process is familiar to me. It's as much psychological as technical, and it's an absolute blast. (And an incredible frustration, too. Truly a battle of wits.)

[eyemyself]

Jan 8, 2014 15:15:25 GMT aaroncampbell said:

Jan 8, 2014 15:00:53 GMT alpacalypse said:

I love that Kat is taking precautions to just jumping down there, but does she have any idea what that arrow does? Going down there is risky enough, but going in without knowing anything about what it is you are trying to examine isn't the best of ideas. Its not like Jeanne is going anywhere or wrecking havoc on people. I would at least try and spend some more time looking up information relating to then, examining historical documents around that time, even if just to find some clues. Perhaps this searching was all done off screen.

What's really blowing my mind is that Kat's going to be reverse-engineering the arrow, from a programming/analytical perspective. And yet, we know from her last attempts at doing that on Diego's designs that that doesn't really work, so I'm kinda worried. Granted, she understands the paradigm of the systems much better now, but even so -- what exactly was going on in Diego's head? How did he think about these systems when he made them? Not as a programmer, I'm sure. An engineer, maybe? A doctor? Perhaps a magician? Clearly he was genius, and also more than a little crazy, and also lovestruck over someone who did not return his affections (now that I think about it, that could describe Dr. Disaster just as well, hehe) but whatever his state of mind, it surely was quite a bit different from Kat's. How is she going to "get into his head" as she attempts to unravel his design?

Disclaimer: I've worked in the anti-spyware industry and done lots of reverse-engineering of viruses and other malware, so this process is familiar to me. It's as much psychological as technical, and it's an absolute blast. (And an incredible frustration, too. Truly a battle of wits.)

You ask some great questions. We (and presumably our heros) still don't know exactly how the device works. We know Diego said his plan required Jeanne... presumably because of her strong emotional connection to forest dude. (I support the theory that a vindictive Diego hurt by rejection found a way to turn the woman who spurned him's love for another into a trap that would hold her spirit forever... thus weaponizing her anger at the death of her lover.) We know forest dude was killed by the arrow and that Jeanne survived to waste away at the water's edge after having her hope of freedom and love destroyed before her eyes. We know she was a skilled fighter in life, and that her ghost and/or the sword it carries are powerful enough to impress Coyote. We know that because of her presence the Annan Water's are impassable except by the court controlled bridge. Whether she attacks anything that tries to cross the waters by choice or is compelled to do so because of some power in Diego's device is unclear. Whether her power is in part tied to the device is also unclear. 

[smjjames]

Now they just have to convince Jeanne that they are trying to help free her.

[esc7]

Jan 8, 2014 15:00:53 GMT alpacalypse said:

I love that Kat is taking precautions to just jumping down there, but does she have any idea what that arrow does? Going down there is risky enough, but going in without knowing anything about what it is you are trying to examine isn't the best of ideas. Its not like Jeanne is going anywhere or wrecking havoc on people. I would at least try and spend some more time looking up information relating to then, examining historical documents around that time, even if just to find some clues. Perhaps this searching was all done off screen.

I'd actually put chances high that the arrow is keeping Jeanne bound to that area for the Court's benefit.

Coyote wants the arrow removed so he can invade the court. The kids are unwittingly helping him. The tooth was given with this application in mind.

[nero]

Assuming holding the arrow is safe for them, I think Kat will find that destroying the arrow will be difficult. I guess we'll see if Jeanne is in control of all her actions or if she is forced to attack them.

[freeman]

Jan 8, 2014 8:05:01 GMT polioman said:

They're totally gonna go down there!

oohohoohhhhhh shiiitttttt!

Infallible logic there: "the rage ghost destroyed all our devices and we do not want to  risk a mechanical sentience; better go down there by ourselves."

ps. Completely disregarding the innuendo. You know,"go down, thehee."

[Daedalus]

Jan 8, 2014 15:00:53 GMT alpacalypse said:

I love that Kat is taking precautions to just jumping down there, but does she have any idea what that arrow does? Going down there is risky enough, but going in without knowing anything about what it is you are trying to examine isn't the best of ideas. Its not like Jeanne is going anywhere or wrecking havoc on people. I would at least try and spend some more time looking up information relating to then, examining historical documents around that time, even if just to find some clues. Perhaps this searching was all done off screen.

It's also been a very long time since this plotline began: the idea of Jeanne being freed/dealt with has been in the air for 28 chapters - almost two years of in-comic time. Perhaps they are now going to do this because there is simply no research to be done: all the records of that time have been 'lost' or destroyed, as Sir Young planned.

Jan 8, 2014 16:47:11 GMT esc7 said:

I'd actually put chances high that the arrow is keeping Jeanne bound to that area for the Court's benefit.

Coyote wants the arrow removed so he can invade the court. The kids are unwittingly helping him. The tooth was given with this application in mind.

Do these ends justify the means?

Also, what reason does Coyote have to do so? I mean, what additional benefit is there to having the ravine traversable? As far as we know, he could cross the bridge with an army and they couldn't stop him. Not to mention that if he really wanted to do so, he could always send down forest creatures armed with many Giggleblades (he has an infinite supply), until she was killed, or the arrow removed. Furthermore, Tom has said that Coyote's not sure what's living in the ravine. That implies that he's never particularly looked: he could find out if he wanted to.

Of course, that's assuming he thinks logically or even has a particular goal in mind. Which is questionable. Very questionable.

[Gotolei]

Jan 8, 2014 14:00:53 GMT TBeholder said:

Jan 8, 2014 12:37:57 GMT eyemyself said:

Annie seems uncharacteristically hesitant. Parley, on the other hand, is determined. This will be interesting.

Maybe, Annie is shy about the fact she lost her blinker?

Just a wild guess, but maybe it has to do with the fact that both times she's met Jeanne she was slashed across the face and almost killed (not to mention possible emotional impact) respectively?

[yla]

Jan 8, 2014 17:12:28 GMT Daedalus said:

Jan 8, 2014 16:47:11 GMT esc7 said:

I'd actually put chances high that the arrow is keeping Jeanne bound to that area for the Court's benefit.

Coyote wants the arrow removed so he can invade the court. The kids are unwittingly helping him. The tooth was given with this application in mind.

Do these ends justify the means?

Also, what reason does Coyote have to do so? I mean, what additional benefit is there to having the ravine traversable? As far as we know, he could cross the bridge with an army and they couldn't stop him. Not to mention that if he really wanted to do so, he could always send down forest creatures armed with many Giggleblades (he has an infinite supply), until she was killed, or the arrow removed. Furthermore, Tom has said that Coyote's not sure what's living in the ravine. That implies that he's never particularly looked: he could find out if he wanted to.

Of course, that's assuming he thinks logically or even has a particular goal in mind. Which is questionable. Very questionable.

Coyote is a trickster; his main/only motivation is the lulz.

It could very well be that Coyote wants Jeanne gone, because she restricts his potential for amusement.
But just as he will not go all EvilOverlord and invade the Court with some sort of army (or at least he will only do it until he has seen the Court's faces), he will not remove Jeanne by brute force either, because then it wouldn't be funny.

[goldenknots]

Jan 8, 2014 16:51:40 GMT nero said:

Assuming holding the arrow is safe for them, I think Kat will find that destroying the arrow will be difficult. I guess we'll see if Jeanne is in control of all her actions or if she is forced to attack them.

I bet the tooth would cut it.

[esc7]

Jan 8, 2014 17:12:28 GMT Daedalus said:

Jan 8, 2014 15:00:53 GMT alpacalypse said:

I love that Kat is taking precautions to just jumping down there, but does she have any idea what that arrow does? Going down there is risky enough, but going in without knowing anything about what it is you are trying to examine isn't the best of ideas. Its not like Jeanne is going anywhere or wrecking havoc on people. I would at least try and spend some more time looking up information relating to then, examining historical documents around that time, even if just to find some clues. Perhaps this searching was all done off screen.

It's also been a very long time since this plotline began: the idea of Jeanne being freed/dealt with has been in the air for 28 chapters - almost two years of in-comic time. Perhaps they are now going to do this because there is simply no research to be done: all the records of that time have been 'lost' or destroyed, as Sir Young planned.

Jan 8, 2014 16:47:11 GMT esc7 said:

I'd actually put chances high that the arrow is keeping Jeanne bound to that area for the Court's benefit.

Coyote wants the arrow removed so he can invade the court. The kids are unwittingly helping him. The tooth was given with this application in mind.

Do these ends justify the means?

Also, what reason does Coyote have to do so? I mean, what additional benefit is there to having the ravine traversable? As far as we know, he could cross the bridge with an army and they couldn't stop him. Not to mention that if he really wanted to do so, he could always send down forest creatures armed with many Giggleblades (he has an infinite supply), until she was killed, or the arrow removed. Furthermore, Tom has said that Coyote's not sure what's living in the ravine. That implies that he's never particularly looked: he could find out if he wanted to.

Of course, that's assuming he thinks logically or even has a particular goal in mind. Which is questionable. Very questionable.

If you remember Coyote is forbidden by his own promise to interfere with the court directly. www.gunnerkrigg.com/?p=792

Coyote and the court have an antagonist relationship for some reason. I don't know what Coyote wants or is planning but he does not seem benevolent.

I wouldn't be surprised if one of his goals was the destruction of the court or gathering more etheric power. Or just to laugh in their faces.

[eyemyself]

Jan 8, 2014 18:19:56 GMT esc7 said:

Jan 8, 2014 17:12:28 GMT Daedalus said:

It's also been a very long time since this plotline began: the idea of Jeanne being freed/dealt with has been in the air for 28 chapters - almost two years of in-comic time. Perhaps they are now going to do this because there is simply no research to be done: all the records of that time have been 'lost' or destroyed, as Sir Young planned.

Do these ends justify the means?

Also, what reason does Coyote have to do so? I mean, what additional benefit is there to having the ravine traversable? As far as we know, he could cross the bridge with an army and they couldn't stop him. Not to mention that if he really wanted to do so, he could always send down forest creatures armed with many Giggleblades (he has an infinite supply), until she was killed, or the arrow removed. Furthermore, Tom has said that Coyote's not sure what's living in the ravine. That implies that he's never particularly looked: he could find out if he wanted to.

Of course, that's assuming he thinks logically or even has a particular goal in mind. Which is questionable. Very questionable.

If you remember Coyote is forbidden by his own promise to interfere with the court directly. www.gunnerkrigg.com/?p=792

Coyote and the court have an antagonist relationship for some reason. I don't know what Coyote wants or is planning but he does not seem benevolent.

I wouldn't be surprised if one of his goals was the destruction of the court or gathering more etheric power. Or just to laugh in their faces.

As Annie noted after the first meeting between the forest and the court neither side has a very high opinion of the other. I don't think Coyote is benevolent... but I don't think he is motivated by sheer desire to take over, either. I think Coyote is playing a long, deep game with the court... and that the Headmaster is also playing a long game with the forest... although probably not as sophisticated as Coyote's. (He is not, after all, and immortal god. Although Coyote seems to think the court is man's attempt to become god.) I think, in many ways, Coyote has taken Annie under his wing to groom her for a role similar to the one he had in mind for Reynard before the later was tricked and trapped by the court. 

[GK Sierra]

Jan 8, 2014 8:40:03 GMT arf said:

Plus something to do with a thermos and coathangers.

The ingredients are a red herring. It's the little drawing of cat face on the side that actually makes it go.

[Daedalus]

Jan 8, 2014 18:45:47 GMT eyemyself said:

Coyote and the court have an antagonist relationship for some reason. I don't know what Coyote wants or is planning but he does not seem benevolent.

Agreed. Whatever Coyote's goal is, he does not care who gets hurt in the doing of it (poor Ysengrin...)

I read his characterization as a sociopath - he has no empathy (or morals, for that matter) whatsoever.