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Post by zimmyhoo on Dec 1, 2013 1:46:29 GMT
So, assuming that Coyote is nefarious, Kat's gonna turn rather robotic, and Annie's gonna be manipulated along with tons of other stuff I *totally* just stole from the theory threads that seem to be popping up recently, how is he going down?
SPOILER: this is just something that popped into my head, it's not going to coherent and maybe even grammar bad!
The one consistent restriction that Coyote seems to have had to follow is that after he gives away a power, he cannot use it. At least, it's been this way with the tree power, bodysnatching, and possibly? his Tooth. It's his Achilles heel, and it's never been broken in the history of the comic. Kinda natural that he's so trickestery - it's his way of protecting himself from being manipulated into letting this fact be used against him.
So of course that's what going to happen. Irony? Check. Foreshadowing/set up beforehand? Check. The only possible way he could be defeated? Seems like it, so far. Ironic? Check again.
The trickster god is going to be tricked into defeating himself!
Maybe.
Probably.
I'm going to bed.
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Post by maxptc on Dec 1, 2013 2:10:08 GMT
I've always figured if Coyote "dies" it will be at the hands/paws/trees of Renard or Ysengrin. But I don't expect him to die honestly, I'm not even sure that is possible. I could see Coyote getting tricked into destroying himself, but to be honest that is a little storybook for my taste.
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Post by Intelligence on Dec 1, 2013 2:13:31 GMT
 Why would you want to kill/destroy Coyote???!!! 
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Post by maxptc on Dec 1, 2013 2:26:37 GMT
Why would you want to kill/destroy Coyote???!!! We don't? This is called theory, it is just talk about what we think will/might happen in the story, not what we want to happen. |
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Post by Gotolei on Dec 1, 2013 2:30:11 GMT
This kind of brings into question whether Coyote is supposed to be defeated or not. Not disagreeing, but what's the final objective of the comic?
Reunite the Court and Forest? Free Jeanne? Slay Jeanne? Kill Coyote? Follow Antimony up through adulthood and then to the next generation of Carver?
..Have a spot of tea with Jeanne and talk for a while just to figure out what the heck is going on?
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Post by zimmyhoo on Dec 1, 2013 3:22:16 GMT
Have a spot of tea with Jeanne and talk for a while just to figure out what the heck is going on? Going with this. |
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Post by philman on Dec 1, 2013 13:26:09 GMT
I don't think Coyote will be completely defeated, I think it more likely his plans for the forest/court be defeated, but Coyote himself lives to laugh another day.
Along the way we'll find out exactly how the court was founded, and exactly what the headmaster knows about it/is planning to do with the ether stations.
Kat will become the Robot God, although I am less sure about Annie being manipulated by Coyote, she has been more savvy recently since her meetings with Jones.
Personally it wouldn't surprise me if Coyote stealing memories backfires, Ysengrin get's his memories back and turns on his old master.
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Post by flowsthead on Dec 1, 2013 13:40:14 GMT
Since the Tic-Toc grew when it was buried, I assume the Tic-Tocs are related somehow to the seed Bismuth. And since Ysengrin buried that Tic-Toc early on, I imagine he did so under Coyote orders, who then removed his memory. So Coyote is trying to undermine the Court by revealing its dark past, but I think it won't necessarily work the way he wants. The new generation of kids doesn't seem as invested in the Court as the older generation, and so it wouldn't be unlikely for them to reject the moral and philosophical foundation of the old Court, while still keeping to the traditional divide of Court/Forest. So perhaps there is a revolution, but not a destruction. I'm not sure what Coyote hopes to gain from all this since he himself made the physical divide between Court and Forest, and presumably wasn't the one who built the bridge.
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Post by quinkgirl on Dec 1, 2013 15:59:06 GMT
I've always figured if Coyote "dies" it will be at the hands/paws/trees of Renard or Ysengrin. But I don't expect him to die honestly, I'm not even sure that is possible. I could see Coyote getting tricked into destroying himself, but to be honest that is a little storybook for my taste. Ugh... *shiver* I can just imagine that now, them killing Coyote. Him laughing his disturbing little laugh until the very end. It's giving me the creeps. |
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Post by warrl on Dec 1, 2013 19:54:30 GMT
I am reminded of a supernatural immortal being from another webcomic, who tries to manipulate people into creating situations where she can't predict what the outcome will be. For her own entertainment. In that story, most of these immortals periodically memory-wipe themselves so they won't go insane from boredom. Typically about every 200 years. It is estimated that this particular immortal hasn't done so for a minimum of about 400 years - almost certainly not since her half-human son was born, and his current age is plural centuries. I think Coyote is doing pretty much the same thing. |
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Post by fwip on Dec 1, 2013 23:09:54 GMT
This kind of brings into question whether Coyote is supposed to be defeated or not. Not disagreeing, but what's the final objective of the comic? Reunite the Court and Forest? Free Jeanne? Slay Jeanne? Kill Coyote? Follow Antimony up through adulthood and then to the next generation of Carver? ..Have a spot of tea with Jeanne and talk for a while just to figure out what the heck is going on? Freeing/slaying/drinking tea with Jeanne are all a means to an end, not an end in themselves. Doing nearly anything with Jeanne will result in too many interesting possibilities for the story to stop there. I'd guess that with the Annan Waters once more passable, the Court and the Forest will either be reunited or go to war. |
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Post by SilverbackRon on Dec 2, 2013 7:37:44 GMT
I don't see Coyote ever experiencing a "downfall" as such. Oh, it is entirely possible that he is setting up some giant plan/scheme/prank that will fail spectacularly. And if it does, he will find it completely hilarious and laugh like crazy.
Reynardine and Ys are both very powerful beings, but nowhere near the level of Coyote. And the gifts he has given them he can take back anytime he wants. They couldn't directly pose a threat to him.
Personally I expect whatever the ending of the Gunnerkrigg Court storyline is to be, Annie, Kat and Coyote will all still be standing in the end. Most likely Reynard as well. It would surprise me if something took out Jones (that would probably her first and last surprise too).
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Post by maxptc on Dec 3, 2013 4:32:59 GMT
And the gifts he has given them he can take back anytime he wants. They couldn't directly pose a threat to him. Are you sure? What makes you say that? I was under the impression that isn't how it works, that when he gave away a power he lost it for good. |
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Post by SilverbackRon on Dec 3, 2013 4:44:09 GMT
And the gifts he has given them he can take back anytime he wants. They couldn't directly pose a threat to him. Are you sure? What makes you say that? I was under the impression that isn't how it works, that when he gave away a power he lost it for good. From Word of Tom: If Coyote wanted to, could he take back the ‘gifts’ he’s given to Ysengrin and Reynardine?
Yup.
However, Tom has also made it clear that Coyote can't use the powers he has given while they are given away. EDIT TO ADD: Here are a couple more Word of Tom quotes on the subject. So wait, does that mean that when Coyote gives someone an ability, he can no longer use it? He’s actually GIVING it away?Yes. If Coyote gives a gift away (like body-taking), can he still use it himself?No, but he might have different abilities that do something similar.
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Post by maxptc on Dec 3, 2013 4:52:45 GMT
Are you sure? What makes you say that? I was under the impression that isn't how it works, that when he gave away a power he lost it for good. From Word of Tom: If Coyote wanted to, could he take back the ‘gifts’ he’s given to Ysengrin and Reynardine?
Yup.
However, Tom has also made it clear that Coyote can't use the powers he has given while they are given away. Oh neat. In that case I don't see Coyote going down. |
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Post by SilverbackRon on Dec 3, 2013 5:03:46 GMT
I added a couple more Tom quotes about the same time you were posting. Also, I seem to recall someone asking if Reynard could use his body-snatching power against Coyote, and Tom answered something to the effect of "No, well he could if Coyote thought it would be funny". I just can't find that particular quote at the moment. However, that makes me think Coyote wouldn't really be in danger since he could just take the power away whenever he thought it wasn't funny anymore.
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Post by Tacdud2 on Dec 3, 2013 5:29:59 GMT
I don't see Coyote ever experiencing a "downfall" as such. Oh, it is entirely possible that he is setting up some giant plan/scheme/prank that will fail spectacularly. And if it does, he will find it completely hilarious and laugh like crazy. Reynardine and Ys are both very powerful beings, but nowhere near the level of Coyote. And the gifts he has given them he can take back anytime he wants. They couldn't directly pose a threat to him. Personally I expect whatever the ending of the Gunnerkrigg Court storyline is to be, Annie, Kat and Coyote will all still be standing in the end. Most likely Reynard as well. It would surprise me if something took out Jones (that would probably her first and last surprise too). You know out of all the characters I fell Jones to be one of the ones to go down. |
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Post by flowsthead on Dec 3, 2013 6:15:16 GMT
I added a couple more Tom quotes about the same time you were posting. Also, I seem to recall someone asking if Reynard could use his body-snatching power against Coyote, and Tom answered something to the effect of "No, well he could if Coyote thought it would be funny". I just can't find that particular quote at the moment. However, that makes me think Coyote wouldn't really be in danger since he could just take the power away whenever he thought it wasn't funny anymore. I find it difficult to imagine an entity that can miniaturize the moon to be in much danger in near any situation... |
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Post by The Anarch on Dec 3, 2013 6:45:40 GMT
I find it difficult to imagine an entity that can miniaturize the moon to be in much danger in near any situation... Ah, but perhaps he didn't really miniaturize the moon! . . . maybe he made everything but the moon bigger! |
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Post by SilverbackRon on Dec 3, 2013 7:43:38 GMT
I added a couple more Tom quotes about the same time you were posting. Also, I seem to recall someone asking if Reynard could use his body-snatching power against Coyote, and Tom answered something to the effect of "No, well he could if Coyote thought it would be funny". I just can't find that particular quote at the moment. However, that makes me think Coyote wouldn't really be in danger since he could just take the power away whenever he thought it wasn't funny anymore. I find it difficult to imagine an entity that can miniaturize the moon to be in much danger in near any situation... I dunno... have you seen the movie Despicable Me? It didn't work out so well... Oh ok. In that case I am sure we are all perfectly safe!  |
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Post by zimmyzims on Dec 3, 2013 12:11:15 GMT
Why would you want to kill/destroy Coyote???!!! Because... COYOTE MUST DIE!!!Insert angry face here. I'm crap at this. There's also no reason, really. I think 'hoo is a bit in the moods of our prophecy of Katmageddon, I already mentionned that Kat would destroy the court, so maybe it would be fitting for Annie to kill Coyote. Rey and Ys are the more probable source, of course, but it seems like there are two powers set in motion, Annie and Kat, and in the end they will only be stopped by each other and will cause a lot of causalities on the way, Coyote could be one of them. But first, I envision CoyotexAnnie  This kind of brings into question whether Coyote is supposed to be defeated or not. Not disagreeing, but what's the final objective of the comic? Reunite the Court and Forest? Free Jeanne? Slay Jeanne? Kill Coyote? Follow Antimony up through adulthood and then to the next generation of Carver? ..Have a spot of tea with Jeanne and talk for a while just to figure out what the heck is going on? Oh oh oh... I know: Jeanne will kill Coyote!? Anyway, I think this is a touching story of two little girls who grow up as friends, but are then pulled apart because they just happen to grow into godlike figures that clash with each other and destroy a whole world around them while they're at it. |
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Post by zimmyhoo on Dec 3, 2013 12:38:09 GMT
Why would you want to kill/destroy Coyote???!!! Because... COYOTE MUST DIE!!!Insert angry face here. I'm crap at this. There's also no reason, really. I think 'hoo is a bit in the moods of our prophecy of Katmageddon, I already mentionned that Kat would destroy the court, so maybe it would be fitting for Annie to kill Coyote. Rey and Ys are the more probable source, of course, but it seems like there are two powers set in motion, Annie and Kat, and in the end they will only be stopped by each other and will cause a lot of causalities on the way, Coyote could be one of them. But first, I envision CoyotexAnnie This kind of brings into question whether Coyote is supposed to be defeated or not. Not disagreeing, but what's the final objective of the comic? Reunite the Court and Forest? Free Jeanne? Slay Jeanne? Kill Coyote? Follow Antimony up through adulthood and then to the next generation of Carver? ..Have a spot of tea with Jeanne and talk for a while just to figure out what the heck is going on? Oh oh oh... I know: Jeanne will kill Coyote!? Anyway, I think this is a touching story of two little girls who grow up as friends, but are then pulled apart because they just happen to grow into godlike figures that clash with each other and destroy a whole world around them while they're at it. Either great minds think alike, or zims and I are circlejerking, because you seem spot on. Maybe Coyote won't be 'defeated', but the story seems setting up for a showdown of epic scale. I don't know that he'll be actually *killed*, but I predict that he will be tricked into giving his powers away - and, if his secret is true, that means he'll cease to exist. Hmm. If he gives a power away, but then regains it, will it still be only mostly functional? Like if he got bodysnatching back from Rey, would he kill everybody he enters? |
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Post by zimmyzims on Dec 3, 2013 12:59:18 GMT
Because... COYOTE MUST DIE!!!Insert angry face here. I'm crap at this. There's also no reason, really. I think 'hoo is a bit in the moods of our prophecy of Katmageddon, I already mentionned that Kat would destroy the court, so maybe it would be fitting for Annie to kill Coyote. Rey and Ys are the more probable source, of course, but it seems like there are two powers set in motion, Annie and Kat, and in the end they will only be stopped by each other and will cause a lot of causalities on the way, Coyote could be one of them. But first, I envision CoyotexAnnie Oh oh oh... I know: Jeanne will kill Coyote!? Anyway, I think this is a touching story of two little girls who grow up as friends, but are then pulled apart because they just happen to grow into godlike figures that clash with each other and destroy a whole world around them while they're at it. Either great minds think alike, or zims and I are circlejerking, because you seem spot on. Like-minded minds, great or not, probably will think the same. May be circlejerking minds as well Maybe Coyote won't be 'defeated', but the story seems setting up for a showdown of epic scale. I don't know that he'll be actually *killed*, but I predict that he's going to be tricked into giving his powers away, and if his secret is true, then he'll cease to exist. Hmm. If he gives a power away, but then regains it, will it still be only mostly functional? Like if he got bodysnatching back from Rey, would he kill everybody he enters? This is so hot I'm almost sure it must go that way: Coyote is tricked either to cease existing or just become powerless as Annie rises in power on the forest side of the waters. |
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Post by quinkgirl on Dec 3, 2013 16:15:06 GMT
Well if there's going to be a battle, the updates are going to be excruciating to wait for.
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Post by zimmyhoo on Dec 3, 2013 16:42:22 GMT
Well if there's going to be a battle, the updates are going to be excruciating to wait for. I wonder if Tom will do something Gigapause like and temporarily deserialize the comic it so we can read through it in one go. |
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Post by quinkgirl on Dec 3, 2013 16:43:42 GMT
Well if there's going to be a battle, the updates are going to be excruciating to wait for. I wonder if Tom will do something Gigapause like and temporarily deserialize the comic it so we can read through it in one go. That would be nice. Disregarding the with drawl symptoms. |
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Post by GK Sierra on Dec 3, 2013 18:41:10 GMT
I wonder if Tom will do something Gigapause like and temporarily deserialize the comic it so we can read through it in one go. That would be nice. Disregarding the with drawl symptoms. Whut the sam heck are you talkin' about, yankee?  |
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Post by Señor Goose on Dec 3, 2013 18:59:55 GMT
Well if there's going to be a battle, the updates are going to be excruciating to wait for. I wonder if Tom will do something Gigapause like and temporarily deserialize the comic it so we can read through it in one go. I read the whole damn thing in less than two days. I don't need no bleedin' Gigapause. |
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Post by zimmyzims on Dec 3, 2013 19:32:56 GMT
I wonder if Tom will do something Gigapause like and temporarily deserialize the comic it so we can read through it in one go. I read the whole damn thing in less than two days. I don't need no bleedin' Gigapause. Tom might need it. However, I would much appreciate if he continued in his old way. An epic battle, updated three times per week, one page at time. |
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Post by quinkgirl on Dec 3, 2013 20:01:21 GMT
That would be nice. Disregarding the with drawl symptoms. Whut the sam heck are you talkin' about, yankee? ...I don't understand. D: |
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Why would you want to kill/destroy Coyote???!!! 
