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Post by snipertom on Nov 29, 2013 22:21:26 GMT
After all those crazy threads, I think it's time for some good old fashioned platonic Tom-love and hero-worship! GKC is my favourite webcomic. I think Tom is an absolutely amazing writer & artist. He started this comic back in 2008 when there were far less popular high quality story-based webcomics (there were a lot even then, but since then it has ABSOLUTELY exploded). These are just a few of my many reasons: - The characters- and there is a huge list- are really great! Fantastic characterisation and complexity. The characters are consistent but show personal growth and development in a way that makes sense. This extends down to even the most "minor" characters; Tom has names for every single 'person' in the comic no matter how small, and this shows. He loves his world and his characters. And he manages to write and get into the heads of adolescent girls very well, which (as far as I know) is something he did not personally experience.
- The amazing depth and attention to detail in world creation. Just look at the symbolism that pervades the comic, and the multiple 'systems' he uses- etheric, robotic, scientific, mythological. Each one makes a presence, even subtly, many foreshadowing future plot, but some just there because in any world, there is always incidental detail. Just amazing!
- The writing. Oh. My. God. The writing is amazing. Each character's dialogue is so... them! Each character has their own voice.
- On the topic once again of the writing: the structure of the story is fantastic too. I have a soft spot especially for episodic stories (eg the chapters in GKC) that gradually advance a bigger plot. It's sort of how it happens in real life too- little stories happen in your life within the backdrop of a larger life story, and it means that the bigger story can take its own time to develop organically and keeps interest and suspense high.
- The art. Tom is a really great artist. He has a lovely style which he has intentionally used to portray the changes in the characters' world views. Annie as a younger girl experiences the world with a more cartoonish, blocky style, while now she experiences it in a more 'refined' way- perhaps analogous to what sorts of comics she would read if she reads comics. We even see the symbolic story-telling mythological art of history, and the odd perceptions of gods seeing things in the ether.
- And on another note about the art, he even manages to draw art that each character would have drawn themselves, in completely unique styles!! I love it! And their handwriting! Wow!
- The larger themes are big, big themes. Mythology, science, human society, conflict, history, how stories are told, how heroes come to be. And yet a very personal approach. He is capable of tackling both big broad issues and smaller local issues specific to the characters; he's not afraid of tackling things that others may find 'too difficult' or 'controversial' and most importantly he does it well.
- Consistency. Tom even when he had a full time job was bloody consistent. He's very professional and dedicated. I personally have no idea how he manages to be so consistent, he is probably the most consistent webcomic artist I've seen- he even updates over Xmas and New Years due to having a 3 month buffer at all times!
- The subject matter itself, naturally, is stuff that I'm interested in. I'm a huge fan of unconventional and high quality science fiction and fantasy. I was a Greco-Roman mythology buff and adore mythology and folk tales. I was once a teenage girl hah! And biological life-forms that are intelligent are totes an obsession of mine! And, and and and... I could keep going all day
- The positive and nuanced depiction of robots! AI is just a fact of life in this universe and robots aren't this life-destroying threat. They have their own little society. And as for their signs that say "not a secret base" and things like that- well, computers remember are incredibly literal. That is the sort of thing that would work for a computer. It would just go "oh, ok, that's not a secret base, I should look elsewhere", while a human would go "hang on a sec".
- City face <3
Tom you are the best, and an inspiration to all and I hero-worship you!!
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Post by Señor Goose on Nov 29, 2013 22:25:03 GMT
I have nothing to add, just +1
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Post by Gotolei on Nov 29, 2013 22:30:55 GMT
It has a plot that actually makes you think, and there's about a million places where you can plug in your own speculation. Yet the vast majority of the time it'll still shoot off in some other direction that just about nobody was expecting. Also liking the rock-solid update schedule - I've been following Homestuck for a few years and it's kind of sickening how often it's in megapause-this gigapause-that. It's nice to follow something that updates at the same time of day, every (scheduled) day, at most a half-hour late and even that's exceedingly rare (most I've seen was ~90 seconds). Also agreed on all those other points, but I'm not gonna bother personally running through them all when they're already explained well
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Post by Mezzaphor on Nov 29, 2013 23:16:11 GMT
I totally agree with what's been stated already. To add some points of my own:
The story has one of the hallmarks of solid characterization and plotting, namely that characters will make choices and do things that I absolutely did not expect—but when I look back at the chapters before, I realized that those surprising choices are totally consistent with the the character's prior actions.
What I really like about the art is the color choices and deliberate simplicity. So many professional comic artists and widely-praised webcomickers think that more details are automatically better, so every page winds up looking like Photoshop exploded onto it. Tom has taken to heart what Mike Mignola showed us all, how a limited color palette can do wonders for mood and atmosphere. And as a side benefit, when Tom does go crazy with colors and details, those pages have that much more of an impact.
I like that Tom isn't settling. Tom's very hard on his work, and I actually disagree with him every time he talks about how terrible his art is, but I'm glad that he's constantly trying new techniques and working to improve.
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chaosvii
Junior Member
I absolutely did not expect this!
Posts: 84
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Post by chaosvii on Nov 30, 2013 0:02:50 GMT
I'd like to add that I've always been a fan of the nightmarish imagery that Tom employs.
So much so, that when my partner said that she couldn't read anymore of that webcomic I recommended to her because it gave her nightmares, I immediately identified correctly which one it was and replied "Ha, yeah, I guess that art is part of why I like the comic so much."
On a side note: I have never remembered a dream that I've had nor even that I have been dreaming since I was 14. There is every possibility that my subconscious hates this comic's art and subjects me to terror every time I slumber. Perhaps I will die in this place between the periods of wakefulness one day.
My partner & I are currently playing a game of D&D where her Wind-themed (Djinn heritage) Sorcerer character is subjected to nightmarish hallucinations from Vecna which provide clues about the terrible secrets of the Draconic Nobility that her party seeks to disrupt/reform/overthrow.
I love the way that the composition occasionally becomes not only fluid, but actually looks like the art is flowing like a flame or like Annie's hair. I also enjoy when the composition is jagged & sharp, like metal. It provides an additional aesthetic that most other comics don't employ. I can only list Ava's Demon and Unsounded as webcomics that still do this and which I still read, but I recall The Phoenix Requiem also evoking this visual sensation of texture through composition prior to its conclusion.
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Post by Covalent on Nov 30, 2013 0:03:32 GMT
Bud and Lindsey. And also all the other stuff you guys mentioned. I really needed a fandom to hang onto after being displaced from so many others.
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Post by philman on Nov 30, 2013 0:11:58 GMT
I agree with all those points (The robots taking everything literally was one of my favourite things at the start), and the great planning ahead and storytelling is also great. Lots of other webcomics I read seem to introduce new things out of nowhere just because the writer is getting bored, this is the most consistently reliably good of all of them.
But it's since I joined the forums and joined the darts players on here that it's become my favourite comic.
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Post by nero on Nov 30, 2013 0:17:09 GMT
I love the layout of the GK world. The color scheme for the forest and the court, the people from both sides. The way that Tom set it, is perfect. You can tell from each page that Tom takes great care of his comic.
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Post by GK Sierra on Nov 30, 2013 2:12:34 GMT
Honestly I cannot even name it. It's just that thing that inhabits good art, whether it's a painting or a book or a song or a movie or a video game or a webcomic. It lives and breathes like a real world, just like the best stories always do. It's been in my top 3 favorite webcomics since 2007. I used to forget about it for months and years at a time (before I thought to use RSS) and when I came back it was always awesome to be able to read 20 or 30 new pages in a row. It's a real beaut' Tom. You should be proud. I never knew so many shades of purple existed before I read this comic.
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Post by Corvo on Nov 30, 2013 2:42:49 GMT
I can only list Ava's Demon... WHY HAS NO ONE TOLD ME ABOUT THIS BEFORE?! WHY?! Also, I like Gunnerkrigg because of you guys, of course! Name one other webcomic forum this active and fun! I dare ya!
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Post by fwip on Nov 30, 2013 2:58:39 GMT
Snipergirl posted most of the major reasons, but here's my two cents: I really like the political side of the world Tom has created. Also, this comic is all around a lot more professional than the other webcomics in my (admittedly limited) experience.
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chaosvii
Junior Member
I absolutely did not expect this!
Posts: 84
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Post by chaosvii on Nov 30, 2013 3:12:37 GMT
I can only list Ava's Demon... WHY HAS NO ONE TOLD ME ABOUT THIS BEFORE?! WHY?! Also, I like Gunnerkrigg because of you guys, of course! Name one other webcomic forum this active and fun! I dare ya! Yeah, I don't even know how I found Ava's Demon except that it was mentioned somewhere... on the internet, back in the dark ages when I hadn't read that comic yet. I hesitate to compare the Order of the Stick forums to this one in terms of fun, but I would tentatively claim that it happens to be just about as active & crazy-go-nuts as far as speculation about story & discussion about all sorts of minutiae only vaguely related to the story is concerned.
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Post by Intelligence on Nov 30, 2013 3:20:37 GMT
It is my type of comedy and it mixes fantasy/sci-fi with reality!
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Post by Covalent on Nov 30, 2013 3:30:48 GMT
Homestuck and Ava's Demon... I don't talk about those anymore. There's a reason I left those fandoms.
I'm content with just sticking to GC.
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Post by Corvo on Nov 30, 2013 3:38:17 GMT
Homestuck and Ava's Demon... I don't talk about those anymore. There's a reason I left those fandoms. I'm content with just sticking to GC. Duuuude, I JUST started reading it! Don't destroy it for me, please!
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Post by Covalent on Nov 30, 2013 3:47:03 GMT
@corvo
Nah, don't worry man, I won't. You wouldn't understand my reasons for refusing to read it any longer. No one really does but me. You'll love it, no worries.
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Post by sapientcoffee on Nov 30, 2013 5:10:35 GMT
Homestuck and Ava's Demon... I don't talk about those anymore. There's a reason I left those fandoms. I'm content with just sticking to GC. Duuuude, I JUST started reading it! Don't destroy it for me, please! Just don't get involved with the fandoms. A comic can still be good even when the fans drive you crazy. (I read Ava's Demon and know nothing about its fandom - maybe that's a good thing? I don't even check out the author's site. I'm a terribly non-fanatic fan.) (Also, just in case you haven't heard of it, check out Digger.)
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Post by Señor Goose on Nov 30, 2013 5:43:26 GMT
The best I can figure, I started reading GKC around this time last year. This was about when I finished playing Assassin's Creed Brotherhood, AKA the best one of the series. I think the fandom shock of finishing the game made me highly susceptible to this comic. The comic was great anyway, but I needed something to fill the hole in my heart.
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Post by Corvo on Nov 30, 2013 5:53:35 GMT
Duuuude, I JUST started reading it! Don't destroy it for me, please! Just don't get involved with the fandoms. A comic can still be good even when the fans drive you crazy. (I read Ava's Demon and know nothing about its fandom - maybe that's a good thing? I don't even check out the author's site. I'm a terribly non-fanatic fan.) (Also, just in case you haven't heard of it, check out Digger. Never heard of it until now. Got me at " I'm going right back down this hole. We find a lot of those underground, too". This was a great day for my list of webcomics. By the way, I recommend: Rice Boy (and all other works from Evan Dahm), Fox Sister, Abominable Charles Christopher and Unsounded. (Needed to get this out of my system, haha!)
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Post by imaginaryfriend on Nov 30, 2013 5:53:38 GMT
I love the layout of the GK world. The color scheme for the forest and the court, the people from both sides. The way that Tom set it, is perfect. You can tell from each page that Tom takes great care of his comic. Agree, the GC color scheme is very distinctive, nearly signature. In general, the amount of time and effort comes through every page both art and story. Keeping the updates coming must be brutal. I can't prove it but I'd guess most starting webcomic artists quit after about six months of one full color page per week or something equal to that.
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chaosvii
Junior Member
I absolutely did not expect this!
Posts: 84
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Post by chaosvii on Nov 30, 2013 6:17:25 GMT
Duuuude, I JUST started reading it! Don't destroy it for me, please! Just don't get involved with the fandoms. This is undiluted life advise. Every fandom requires some sort of lion-tamer or something in order for it to not turn into a terrible monstrosity a curious entity as zealot-filled as religions or people that write OTP fanfics with complete sincerity. *runs for the hills*
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Post by GK Sierra on Nov 30, 2013 6:31:56 GMT
Homestuck is now so meta that it's a joke about a joke about a joke.
Predictably, the community is pretty insane.
Haven't seen Ava's Demon community so I can't comment.
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Post by Covalent on Nov 30, 2013 7:29:33 GMT
Actually, there is one webcomic I've read to the very end. Anyone ever heard of Starslip?
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Post by Gotolei on Nov 30, 2013 7:37:08 GMT
I've only been lurking/active here since Annie's City Face masterpiece, but I don't recall seeing much of said insanity coming from this fandom. I mean, if you set our physical incapability to stay on topic for more than a few pages at a time aside it's generally a rather intelligent place.
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Post by GK Sierra on Nov 30, 2013 7:44:40 GMT
I've only been lurking/active here since Annie's City Face masterpiece, but I don't recall seeing much of said insanity coming from this fandom. I mean, if you set our physical incapability to stay on topic for more than a few pages at a time aside it's generally a rather intelligent place. Oh no, we're very tame, and that's the way I like it. Some people might decry it as a "hugbox", but I much prefer reasoned discussion over unregulated flaming and name-calling. It's pretty remarkable, Tom hasn't had to ban a single person in almost two and a half years.
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Post by Covalent on Nov 30, 2013 7:48:50 GMT
To be fair, I don't think Tom's been online for a while, either...
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Post by SilverbackRon on Nov 30, 2013 7:50:20 GMT
Wow, what a great thread. There are just far too many reasons to love GC to possibly list (although snipergirl did a great job in the OP)! I'll give a few of my favorites though. Obviously the story itself, Tom's writing, is what makes Gunnerkrigg work. It is a fascinating fantasy/sci-fi world he has created with an amazing blend of so many different cultures and themes. So much so that over five (eight!?) years into it he can still keep the growing audience anticipating each new update. Even with rampant speculation going on, he continually surprises us and exceeds our expectations. The evolution of the artwork has been a lot of fun to see. With so many pages to pick from, I'll snatch up one to look at. This page is just cool to look at. Check out the central panel. Annie skooched up onto Kat's bed, kicking off her shoe with her toes. Her holding Kat's crossed feet in her lap. So damn adorable! And it ends on a comical note. This is only three pages after she sets her hair on fire in front of the Court assembly while accepting the position of Forest Medium. I picked that one as a simple indoor scene because I love how the colors really set the mood. I won't start linking all the great pages because that would go on forever. There are loads of great outdoor pages too, forest and cityscape of the court, that just blow me away! We also seem to have a pretty awesome fanbase here. It's nice to find a reasonably civil forum.
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Post by Gotolei on Nov 30, 2013 8:16:01 GMT
And it ends on a comical note. This is only three pages after she sets her hair on fire in front of the Court assembly while accepting the position of Forest Medium. Yeah, it's kinda funny how quickly the mood can whiplash sometimes. Ysengrin goes insane and attacks Annie, Eggers epic-zams in to save the day, next is Coyote confiscating the "nasty little memory" while Ys protested and then WHEEEEE MORT FUN TIME To be fair, I don't think Tom's been online for a while, either... Pretty sure it's possible to mask parts of your activity on this forum. For example, note GK Sierra's "last online" time in the profile. Just a wild guess, but I think he just might have posted once or twice since June But yeah, neither he nor my2k have posted for almost a year/two years respectively. Guess it goes to show what kind of a community this is, seeing that it hasn't completely fallen apart in the time since
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Post by Mezzaphor on Nov 30, 2013 9:08:39 GMT
Actually, there is one webcomic I've read to the very end. Anyone ever heard of Starslip? Yes, I used to really like that one. Never finished it. The various retools made my interest wane; the killing blow came when I fell behind a few months and, upon returning, realized the archives were badly-arranged and that there was consequently no easy way to navigate back to the point I left off. I realized that the work to find where I left off was much greater than I was interested in expending, so I left and didn't look back.
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Post by SilverbackRon on Nov 30, 2013 9:14:56 GMT
Actually, there is one webcomic I've read to the very end. Anyone ever heard of Starslip? Yes, I used to really like that one. Never finished it. The various retools made my interest wane; the killing blow came when I fell behind a few months and, upon returning, realized the archives were badly-arranged and that there was consequently no easy way to navigate back to the point I left off. I realized that the work to find where I left off was much greater than I was interested in expending, so I left and didn't look back. Ok, that is another thing I like about Gunnerkrigg Court. The Archive system makes it very easy to navigate. I have had the exact same experience you describe with a few other webcomics (The Intrepid Girlbot, for example) where it is very hard to find your place from four or five months back. GC has things nicely divided by chapters and you can jump pages easily by simply changing the page number in the URL. Compared to many other webcomics, that is a huge plus.
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