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Post by Nnelg on Feb 12, 2013 5:11:53 GMT
It clicked. The pieces are finally falling together. I know what Coyote's up to. He's after Renard. All this time, he's been pushing Annie away from the Court, towards the Forest. Staging the "Great Secret Incident" to ensure that Annie does not get the Medium position is no different. After all, what exactly does Coyote gain from a Forest-friendly Medium? Not much, really, since the Medium doesn't get to make decisions. But Renardine's loyalties are tied to Antimony's. And Rey made it clear he won't come back to the Forest on his own. So he needs a little push... And seeing the Court mistreat Annie, and the Forest treat her well, will certainly provide that push. But it's deeper than that, I see now. Much deeper... Everyone can see now how manipulative Coyote can be. But they miss the subtle methods for the obvious ones. Renardine has spent the last several years painfully imprisoned by the Court. Those he knew, and in one case loved, among the humans have all abandoned or turned against him; among them he is now called a "demon". He has nothing left in the world of men, save for Antimony Carver. I doubt Coyote could have more thoroughly alienated Renard against the Court... Up to this point, at least. How long did Coyote know of Surma's deception? Did he know of it when he gave Renard his powers? Did he encourage it along the way, knowing what the inevitable result would be? Did Coyote arrange Surma's ascension to the Medium position in hopes that Renard would fall in love with her?And now... To what extent will Coyote go to ensure Renardine comes back to him? ...Would he be willing to frame the Court for Antimony's death?  |
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baf
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Post by baf on Feb 12, 2013 5:37:40 GMT
I'm not really buying it. Coyote is clever and manipulative, but not terribly subtle. In particular, I really don't think he knew about Surma's deception until Annie told him, because he seemed to be genuinely taken by surprise, and I don't think he's that good of an actor.
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Post by Nnelg on Feb 12, 2013 5:51:23 GMT
I'm not really buying it. Coyote is clever and manipulative, but not terribly subtle. In particular, I really don't think he knew about Surma's deception until Annie told him, because he seemed to be genuinely taken by surprise, and I don't think he's that good of an actor. You think this looks like he's surprised? Or that he isn't being subtle here? (panel 5) |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 12, 2013 5:58:58 GMT
Hmmm....I think I'd have to think 'bout this one a little more. One the one hand, it mostly makes sense, on the other....it doesn't seem nearly silly/entertaining/awkward/crazy enough for, well, Coyote.
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tpman
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Post by tpman on Feb 12, 2013 6:46:06 GMT
I can see where you're going with most of this. The idea that he arranged for Surma to become medium, so that Rey could fall in love with her, so that he would commit murder, so that he would be imprisoned by the Court, all so he can that Coyote could ensure that his bestest bud Rey wouldn't want to abandon him though? I can't buy that.
I think that Rey falling in love with Surma took everyone by surprise. It's possible that Coyote may have nudged Rey towards abuse of his power, but I'm pretty sure he didn't mean for Rey to become imprisoned. Coyote's always up for putting someone in an embarrassing situation, but he didn't gain anything by leaving himslef nobody to play with except for boring old Ysey.
Plotting to get Rey back sounds like something Coyote would do though, and I do agree that he has a capacity for schemes that go beyond the obvious. Subtlety might be pushing it though. Coyote might construct a devious, intricate plan behind your back, but he's rarely subtle.
Now Jones? That girl's subtle like a knife. (Obscure reference bonus).
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Post by GK Sierra on Feb 12, 2013 8:39:59 GMT
It clicked. The pieces are finally falling together. I know what Coyote's up to. He's after Renard. Thank god we are making progress.  (So I'm assuming he wants Renard back to snatch his memories and learn everything about the Court?) |
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heranje
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Post by heranje on Feb 12, 2013 10:05:36 GMT
I disagree with the "coyote isn't subtle" comments. Coyote is plenty subtle - and the way he occasionally appears to show his cards to the entire table while grinning from ear to ear is part of his poker face. He knows exactly the effect that has - it makes people underestimate him, think they have him figured out, and thus feel safer ("Oh, Coyote is a trickster, but I KNOW he's trying to trick me and he's so obvious about it, also he's a crazy doof"). Not having people take you seriously can be a terribly effective weapon when you're trying to fool them.
Your theory is really interesting. I'm definitely willing to believe this is at least part of the game Coyote is playing.
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Post by Nnelg on Feb 12, 2013 13:13:23 GMT
Hmmm....I think I'd have to think 'bout this one a little more. One the one hand, it mostly makes sense, on the other....it doesn't seem nearly silly/entertaining/awkward/crazy enough for, well, Coyote. As heranje pointed out, the worst fiends are the ones that lull you into a false sense of security. Coyote's always up for putting someone in an embarrassing situation, but he didn't gain anything by leaving himslef nobody to play with except for boring old Ysey. The thing which got in Coyote's way before was Renard's good relationship with humans: Rey didn't want to accept any powers for fear of hurting it. Now, Rey no longer has a good relationship left to lose. (So I'm assuming he wants Renard back to snatch his memories and learn everything about the Court?) No, I don't think so. Most of those memories are of the inside of a jail cell, after all. He wants Renard back so that he can continue with his master plan... Whatever that may be. Regardless, Rey is a being of great power and having him on your side is generally a good idea. |
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Post by Per on Feb 12, 2013 14:05:49 GMT
This theory completely fails to account for Paper Moo.
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Post by foxurus on Feb 13, 2013 8:24:16 GMT
But Renardine's loyalties are tied to Antimony's. And Rey made it clear he won't come back to the Forest on his own. So he needs a little push... And seeing the Court mistreat Annie, and the Forest treat her well, will certainly provide that push. Where does making Ysengrin attack Annie factor into getting her to trust the Forest? |
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Post by Nnelg on Feb 13, 2013 13:31:02 GMT
Where does making Ysengrin attack Annie factor into getting her to trust the Forest? It's a direct consequence of Coyote telling Annie his Great Secret, which sheds a negative light on the Court. It might have been the tipping point in the Court's decision for Medium, in which case it's a net gain for Coyote. Or, if Ysengrin attacking Annie at one point was inevitable (due to Coyote's plans for him, which seem to include driving him insane) then springing this so soon before a major event that deepens the rift between Annie and the Court (as in, the Medium announcement) makes it seem less bad by comparison. Essentially, if my theory is right, then Coyote must have decided that the net gain for his schemes was greater than the net loss. |
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Post by Lightice on Feb 13, 2013 21:16:30 GMT
Essentially, if my theory is right, then Coyote must have decided that the net gain for his schemes was greater than the net loss. I suspect that you are applying too human motivations for Coyote. Early on it would have seemed right to assume that he wants to sway Annie's opinion from the Court to the Forest and make her into an ally, either to retrieve Renard or just for her own sake. However, he has done too much to the contrary. He put a binding on Annie's arm during her stay in the Forest. Later he made mockery of her, presenting himself in a very poor light, and rather than warning her about Ysengrin's inevitable(?) breakdown, he simply made it clear that he knew it was going to happen, but in a way that would only make sense afterwards. Overall, I don't think that Coyote has a plan, as such, either for Annie or Ysengrin, especially if he really believes his own theory. He's chaos incarnate and politics and leadership only seem to be meaningful to him as means of messing the very concepts up for others. Coyote started by giving Annie reasons to be suspicious and uncertain about the Court and making the Forest seem welcoming and benign by comparison. But as soon as she started to feel at home in the Forest, he started to make her uncomfortable and suspicious there, as well. The only goal that I can see is to keep Annie uncertain and off-balance simply to see what she will do as a result. I don't think that there's any clear ends that he's aiming at with this, the element of chaos that he introduces to a stable system, be it the Court politics or Annie's emotions, seems to be the ends in itself for him. |
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Post by warrl on Feb 14, 2013 0:45:33 GMT
Regardless, Rey is a being of great power and having him on your side is generally a good idea. Rey said he can possess anything with eyes. Coyote has lots of eyes. ... |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 14, 2013 2:10:59 GMT
Rey said he can possess anything with eyes. Coyote has lots of eyes. ... I do think Coyote would be able to negate his own powers. If not, killing Coyote could have some very unfortunate consequences. |
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Post by Nnelg on Feb 14, 2013 4:05:06 GMT
Early on it would have seemed right to assume that he wants to sway Annie's opinion from the Court to the Forest and make her into an ally, either to retrieve Renard or just for her own sake. However, he has done too much to the contrary. You make a valid point. I would say though that it is still evident that Coyote has some sort of long-term goal involving Renard not being friends with the Court. It could be that he wants Annie (and therefore Rey) as a free agent, aligned with neither the Court nor the Forest per se... The existence of such a wild card within the Court's walls, and therefore posing an unrecognized threat to it, might advance Coyote's plans better than having them join his side officially. |
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