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Post by darklao on Nov 5, 2012 9:59:53 GMT
Either the creator knew humans were coming and she should look human, or her origin is actually post-everything we've seen so far.
Clearly she comes from the future.
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Post by dante on Nov 5, 2012 10:26:09 GMT
Yeah, I'm figuring time shenanigans at this point.
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gary
Full Member
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Post by gary on Nov 5, 2012 10:32:12 GMT
Either the creator knew humans were coming and she should look human. Or Jones created humans in her image the way humans created gods in theirs.
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Post by Quizzie on Nov 5, 2012 10:36:59 GMT
^Excepting viscosity Mr. Klemetti omits fluid dynamics from the situation completely. Which fluid dynamics do you mean? I thought about this for all morning, but I can see only one reason why Jones (or Gollum) would sink into the lava: if there was a strong current below the surface or a vortex of some sort. For a static lake of lava a less dense body (Jones, Gollum, ...) must float. Other things to consider: The velocity from falling and the evaporation of the water inside the body (which would have to happen before catching fire).
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hngg
New Member
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Post by hngg on Nov 5, 2012 11:15:29 GMT
Next page should be Jones saying "... and that's how I met your mother" to Annie.
Now, seriously, this is my take on all of this.
When it was explained to Annie what Jones was, they told him she has existed before humans. That's why she told Coyote that Jones goes against his theory. This would mean that Annie is not gaining a lot of new information through these pages, if they represent Jones explaining things. What matters to Annie is the final pages of this journey (showing Jones' creation) or whatever Jones will say after this exposition (or what she is saying and we're not reading!).
I think the way it will work out is that Jones was created by humans and the ether can work backwards in time, as that would also explain why Coyote could watch the moment of humanity's creation.
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Post by imaginaryfriend on Nov 5, 2012 11:22:20 GMT
^Excepting viscosity Mr. Klemetti omits fluid dynamics from the situation completely. Which fluid dynamics do you mean? I thought about this for all morning, but I can see only one reason why Jones (or Gollum) would sink into the lava: if there was a strong current below the surface or a vortex of some sort. For a static lake of lava a less dense body (Jones, Gollum, ...) must float. Other things to consider: The velocity from falling and the evaporation of the water inside the body (which would have to happen before catching fire). The strong current comes from natural convection, the powerful dynamic interaction of the hot molten rock and the cold (assuming it is cold) object. The object becomes warmer until it reaches equilibrium with its environment but the molten rock near it becomes cooler and contracts; these tiny changes may be invisible and seem meaningless but they can be felt, in this case as a downward pull. The molten rock near the object becomes slightly denser than the molten rock around it, etc. creating a current. The bigger the difference in temperatures the more powerful the effect is. So Jones herself may be invincible and standing on solid rock but I think for her hair to move as it does in the comic it must be about equal in temperature to the molten rock around it. I think water evaporation (re:steam explosion) would be an upward force but since Jones is not smoking or anything and she is already in the molten rock I don't think that or surface tension would apply. I am trying to think of a real-life example that people can relate to but so far haven't come up with anything. The problem is 1. that people just don't come into contact with temperature differences of this magnitude in day-to-day living and 2. we're talking about hypothetical situations with indestructible objects that can't really happen. The closest I can think of at this moment is how roiling air can form a mirage, or can make a road look like a mirror. But I will think about it more and possibly come up with something. I hate to just link you guys to Wiki and leave it at that.
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Post by Quizzie on Nov 5, 2012 11:46:09 GMT
The strong current comes from natural convection, the powerful dynamic interaction of the hot molten rock and the cold (assuming it is cold) object. The object becomes warmer until it reaches equilibrium with its environment but the molten rock near it becomes cooler and contracts; these tiny changes may be invisible and seem meaningless but they can be felt, in this case as a downward pull. The molten rock near the object becomes slightly denser than the molten rock around it, etc. creating a current. The bigger the difference in temperatures the more powerful the effect is. Interesting point.
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Post by philman on Nov 5, 2012 11:49:16 GMT
The closest I can think of at this moment is how roiling air can form a mirage, or can make a road look like a mirror. But I will think about it more and possibly come up with something. I hate to just link you guys to Wiki and leave it at that. Of course, this is all assuming Jones' surface temperature is the same as that of a human. If she is sitting in a world full of molton lava it may be safe to assume her body has heated up to a similar temperature
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Post by stormy on Nov 5, 2012 12:03:10 GMT
Yeah, about a couple of posts ago, my frustration at the lack of (forward) progress finally overpowered my love of the art, and I'm itchy to get back to present-day and see Annie's question responded to.
But for some reason, I keep imagining Jones turning around, flexing a bicep, and declaring "I yam what I yam!"
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Post by legion on Nov 5, 2012 12:03:59 GMT
"molten"
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Post by imaginaryfriend on Nov 5, 2012 12:06:49 GMT
The closest I can think of at this moment is how roiling air can form a mirage, or can make a road look like a mirror. But I will think about it more and possibly come up with something. I hate to just link you guys to Wiki and leave it at that. Of course, this is all assuming Jones' surface temperature is the same as that of a human. If she is sitting in a world full of molton lava it may be safe to assume her body has heated up to a similar temperature Indeed! If Jones' hair was normal temperature via magic it shouldn't be acting as it is in the molten rock. Therefore it appears that Jones' hair, and likely Jones herself, is simply enduring the extreme temperature with ease.
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Post by wynne on Nov 5, 2012 12:26:35 GMT
Seriously, Tom? Seriously?
*sigh*
It is pretty, though.
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krael
Junior Member
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Post by krael on Nov 5, 2012 12:34:01 GMT
Would't that be kind of an obvious expectation anyway? she's touching a very large and very well conduction heat reservoir. if she doesn't have the temperature now, she will within a second. Further, she's Jones and, by now, thinking about how her lungs should have burned away from the heat or thinking about the regular density of hair seems rather moot in her case.
on the topic of jones: I'm expecting a more elegant explaination than time shenanigans or aliens. Earth being the ether-product of Jones thought do it except she didn't die yet, Jones being retroactively edited into time by man's believe in immortality could work but seems convuluted. I wonder if coyote will show up, or that the moment in time that she was called wandering eye lies much closer to the present and we passed it allready, so to speak. This chapter is cool but it hasn't really given us that much more information (other than that jones is pretty old).
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faek
New Member
14
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Post by faek on Nov 5, 2012 12:35:01 GMT
Dont listen to them Tom, i love the artwork and the story. I mean look at the discussion it,s spawned!
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unrequited
Junior Member
Tormentor of the Heart, close friend of the Spleen
Posts: 74
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Post by unrequited on Nov 5, 2012 12:40:16 GMT
Sierra, You realize she throws the "first life" arrow all out of kilter. This seems to be post Theia impact. Jones could have something to do with life on proto-Earth or Theia. I'm still leaning toward time travel or retrograde creation, though. What if...what if she IS the Theia impact?
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Post by skythorn on Nov 5, 2012 12:45:56 GMT
Thought : Jones is a Ceramic Robot Golem ... y'know - kind heat proof & better than one o' them mud ones?
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Post by atteSmythe on Nov 5, 2012 12:47:07 GMT
Jones exists.
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Post by imaginaryfriend on Nov 5, 2012 13:10:59 GMT
Would't that be kind of an obvious expectation anyway? she's touching a very large and very well conduction heat reservoir. if she doesn't have the temperature now, she will within a second. Further, she's Jones and, by now, thinking about how her lungs should have burned away from the heat or thinking about the regular density of hair seems rather moot in her case. on the topic of jones: I'm expecting a more elegant explaination than time shenanigans or aliens. Earth being the ether-product of Jones thought do it except she didn't die yet, Jones being retroactively edited into time by man's believe in immortality could work but seems convuluted. I wonder if coyote will show up, or that the moment in time that she was called wandering eye lies much closer to the present and we passed it allready, so to speak. This chapter is cool but it hasn't really given us that much more information (other than that jones is pretty old). For me, a guy who believes Jones is an animated statue (stone), Jones assuming lava-temperature is no problem whatsoever. Other people's theories (aliens, time-travelers) might encounter problems with that. ;D I see two possibilities to explain what we have been seeing with my theory. One possibility is that this image we (the readers) have of Jones is being "edited" in over the stone from which she is made. She's been immobile in two of the last three comics, yes? Rocks do move out of glaciers though I have some trouble with the fact that she's on top of the glacier and she seems to be digging a trail as if she's going under her own power. I have seen wind-blown rocks make trails like that in the desert so I can't say it's impossible but I'd feel more comfortable if she were shown to be eroding out of the face of the glacier into some nice terminal moraine or something. The second possibility I mentioned in an earlier thread is that she has been created retroactively because of either human belief or an etherial flow into an accidentally-created human form. I think this is more likely but I don't really care either way.
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Post by tullus on Nov 5, 2012 13:21:34 GMT
I see this a lot, but people complaining about the "lack of forward progress" are ignorant of how a story-as-art functions.
If the only purpose of a story was revealing a plot, all stories would be told in a few dry sentences. The purpose of telling a story is to explore and share meanings, even if that meaning is simply one perspective of a series of sequential events. Artistic stories (novels, film, webcomics, etc.) do more than this, exploring many complex meanings in an attempt to make sense out of life by reflecting it.
In fantastic fiction like Gunnerkrigg Court, this reflection is often accomplished through allegorical representation and the reframing of the setting and/or rules of "real life" to other settings and/or rules, in order to emphasize characters and ideas. By taking these characters (reflections of humans) and ideas out of the familiar "real life" setting, they are contrasted and viewed from a different perspective, allowing the author to highlight and explore facets of humans and ideas which may be harder to see from the perspective of "real life."
The ideas and experiences being explored are often, as in this case, ephemeral and hard to pin down. This is the whole point of stories in the first place -- to make sense out of things, if only a little, by showing them from a point of view (even if that point of view is a disembodied narrator).
This Jones sequence is doing a lot of things besides just explaining what Jones is ("what a person is" is an extremely complex question science has barely begun to explain -- just take what you know about yourself physically, psychologically, socially, and historically, and try to hold it all in your head at once. Then think about all the things you don't know about yourself). This sequence is also reframing (just a little) Gunnerkrigg's fictional world from Jones's perspective, and from the narrator/camera/our perspective. The author is showing us moments from Jones's history and from the history of his world, presumably significant ones.
Finally, many who have commented on their impatience with this sequence have also commented upon its beauty. Aesthetics are one of the primary ways stories function as art, and a big part of how readers enjoy them. This is a beautiful, informative sequence. Enjoy it!
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elco
New Member
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Post by elco on Nov 5, 2012 13:44:59 GMT
This seems to be post Theia impact. Jones could have something to do with life on proto-Earth or Theia. I'm still leaning toward time travel or retrograde creation, though. What if...what if she IS the Theia impact? Long before there could be any life on a very young Earth, the very first word was heard by only the one who uttered it: CANNONBAAALL !!! Also: Our Story in 1 minute
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myzelf
Junior Member
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Post by myzelf on Nov 5, 2012 14:19:41 GMT
Since Jones appears to be absolutely indestructible, it's probable that she has no temperature whatsoever, and cannot conduct heat. I'd guess she's not made of atomic matter at all, but some form of etheric matter. I think she's been described as cold, though, which would throw a hole in this idea.
Thinking about this gave me another idea, though, albeit one that probably has been brought up before. Coyote said his knife/tooth can cut the very earth. At this point, it looks like Jones may be the very Earth.
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Post by tustin2121 on Nov 5, 2012 14:21:46 GMT
Jones decided to sleep of the first few eons, when she wakes up next she's under the ocean. Her first thought: "Huh, I am buried in rock again. This always seems to happen when I go to sleep."
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Post by chendzeea on Nov 5, 2012 14:45:14 GMT
I agree there is a story here that doesn't need words to tell. This really lets me look at Jones in a new light. She is so incredibly old. Seriously ponder what her mind must be like. At first you would think she'd be completely arrogant. The classic. "You dare question / challenge/ deny/ ME! I'm as old as creation! But then again, being so old. A whimsical moment of drama compared to the tiny span of a persons life taken into context with a being such as her wouldn't even be worth noting. Honestly, compared to the things she's seen. What could faze her. She's seen us at our worst and at our best. That doesn't just go for us, but for all life. Very much explains why she seems unfazed. She can be compassionate sure, just because you're immortal doesn't mean you're a jerk. On a side note. What if humans are her etheric creation. She traveled the world looking for answers about her self and humans sprung up in her image and altered by her perceptions of the world. That would explain the form. Or she simply is a "adam/eve" type figure. The eye of the creator made in it's image to watch over it's creation. Given that form because mankind would share a similar form eventually. But all of these seem too simple. Tom never does simple
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Post by noone3 on Nov 5, 2012 14:51:38 GMT
Thinking about this gave me another idea, though, albeit one that probably has been brought up before. Coyote said his knife/tooth can cut the very earth. At this point, it looks like Jones may be the very Earth. Well, connecting this with my previous mentioning of Superman's beard I can see you found the instrument Jones might need to shave her legs... if it comes her fancy. Also, Jones has just proved Darth Vader being a wuss.
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Post by smjjames on Nov 5, 2012 15:07:04 GMT
You know, I wonder how she dealt with predators over the eons. Not that we're likely to find out anyway.
Anyways, it's clear that for a VERY long time, she was nameless (although maybe Gaia would fit nicely, given what we've seen), until humans encountered her and named her, possibly wandering eye since that's what Coyote calls her and she was present in North America at this time, so whether she met Coyote there or much further into the past is unknown.
Also, it would be cute to see an image of coyote as a puppy (yes I know he is practically ageless, but he would be young when the myths and stories of him were first starting to be told) walking up to jones and saying "HI! My name is coyote, whats yours?".
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elco
New Member
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Post by elco on Nov 5, 2012 15:20:28 GMT
You know, I wonder how she dealt with predators over the eons. Not that we're likely to find out anyway. "Suddenly, I am being chewed on by a crocodile. I'll need new clothes. Yes, it will make a fine purse."
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Post by bruzer79 on Nov 5, 2012 15:40:25 GMT
This update and the last update lead me to assume that Jones is in the same spot in both updates (lava cooled into rock, ocean formed around her), and had been for a very long time, but makes me question what caused her to awaken suddenly in 1112??
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Post by iondream on Nov 5, 2012 15:43:46 GMT
I was just starting to waste the next 30 mins of my morning calculating relative densities of hair and molton rocks (molton lava is around 2.5-3.0 g/cm^3 depending on the type of rock, human hair has a density of 1.32 g/cm^3.) Then I came across this article by an actual geologist so I gave up trying to amateur my way through it! Basically, humans float on lava (while suffering extreme burns) www.wired.com/wiredscience/2011/12/the-right-and-wrong-way-to-die-when-you-fall-into-lava/(edit: typo) ^Excepting viscosity Mr. Klemetti omits fluid dynamics from the situation completely. I think its safe to say that Jones is exceptionally dense. I have noted that her hair has not changed in length for over 4 billion years, suggesting that it has the same unnatural density as her body. From the way the lava is flowing around her, and how she is standing upright, probably on some denser heat resistant ground(what are the bottom of lava flows made from anyway?) I would suggest that she has around the same or higher density as lava, making her density at least 3 times that of a human. What does a 5 foot 4 woman of her build weigh you think? She might even be more dense than that. Look at how she is not pushed by the lava flow, she stands bolt upright as it just goes around her. Rocks and landscape resist the flow by being strongly attached to much larger objects, but unless she is attached the the ground beneath some way, she has to be heavier than my 300 lb estimate. What is the relationship between the horizontal force of a flowing fluid and its density? I guess she might not have much of surface area to push against, since she has such a small profile. Maybe 350 to 400 pounds? Hmmm, if Jones could read this post, I am pretty sure my life would be in danger...
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Post by tullus on Nov 5, 2012 15:46:35 GMT
This update and the last update lead me to assume that Jones is in the same spot in both updates (lava cooled into rock, ocean formed around her).... Nice catch! I didn't notice that before, but looking at the last panels of both updates, I bet you're right.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Nov 5, 2012 15:49:47 GMT
I would just like to say that something interesting has happened in this page. This is the first time that she's done absolutely nothing since (until?) we last saw her. She's been sleeping in that bed of rock for who-knows-how-many millions/billions of years. I won't say this is the last one because honestly I have no idea, but this page is at least meaningfully different from every one that's come before it. Edit: drat, Bruzer beat me! XD
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