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Post by ctso74 on Nov 2, 2012 22:39:02 GMT
My two cents: we see her as a human because we choose to. Her real form is Too Much for Us to Comprehend (TM). Probably true, but there are no humans to observe her now except us, so if this is true, she's breaking the fourth wall. Maybe, it's Tom messing with the fourth wall, and the chapter ends with a fast forward of the flashbacks with Jones's different faces through time. That would be pretty cool.
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Post by monday on Nov 2, 2012 22:49:06 GMT
Somebody asked why she had her eyes closed. 2 things come to mind: 1) She was snoozing until she became unstuck. or 2) She was just coming to life. That was me, and I misspoke. We have seen her with eyes closed after her "quick match" with Eglamore, and those times were where she was meeting kids. And some other times.
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quoodle
Full Member
Just a man on a planet
Posts: 168
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Post by quoodle on Nov 2, 2012 23:26:08 GMT
Artistic note: Some of her hair is sticking up through the rock. Not sure what that means. How sure are you that it's rock? I took it to be seafloor sediment, but I guess that might be flatter... Yea, I thought sediment too - but on second look it's not flat. Volcanic rock pushed up from the seafloor is more likely. Then again, there's not a lot of erosion under water - so how is she going to free herself? She'll just bust rock I guess. So I'm still unsure what's happening here.
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Post by palevalkyrie on Nov 3, 2012 0:05:26 GMT
As a professional paleontologist (yes, seriously), I've got to say these last few pages have been an awesome surprise. Well, Tom changed epochs to eras, but otherwise I was right. Since we haven't seen Jones' creation yet (how did she get buried?), and for symmetry with the other period groupings, I'm calling it for Monday... "Many eras ago". Don't know where we go after that! Eons? Before the Paleozoic Era (which the strip is currently in), geologic time isn't divided up into Eras--only the Phanerozoic Eon is divided that way. Eon is really the only time division he has left to use. My money is on "the previous eon." The jump to the Proterozoic would be anywhere between ~540 and 2500 million years ago.
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Post by sapientcoffee on Nov 3, 2012 0:46:56 GMT
This has made me think of a line from one of the Dirk Gently books - "And time began seriously to pass."
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Post by SpitefulFox on Nov 3, 2012 1:45:18 GMT
Correct me if I've missed something, but why are we treating Coyote's story as fact? Seems like most of the forums are still trying to explain Jones through the lens of "supernatural things are only created by human belief" when we don't even know if Coyote is right or not.
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wlerin
Junior Member
Posts: 62
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Post by wlerin on Nov 3, 2012 3:09:47 GMT
Because it makes a lot of sense. But aye, it hasn't been confirmed yet.
Now, assuming Coyote's theory is true, and not just a cruel prank he plays on Ysengrin to advance the latter's madness, who envisioned Jones? If she is a creation of Tom's and not from any real world culture... and the only "culture" introduced in this comic is that of the Court... and the court is "man's attempt to become God"... hmmm....
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Post by imaginaryfriend on Nov 3, 2012 3:22:37 GMT
Correct me if I've missed something, but why are we treating Coyote's story as fact? Seems like most of the forums are still trying to explain Jones through the lens of "supernatural things are only created by human belief" when we don't even know if Coyote is right or not. I accept Coyote as an authority on the ether. He might be wrong about things he wasn't around for but as a being who swims in ether and manipulates it he's more qualified to guess about creations and origins than anyone else who has appeared in the comic so far [probably excepting Jones]. And yes, Coyote is a trickster. What he says must be parsed carefully but he isn't a liar. As everyone knows, Jones herself testifies to that.
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Post by SpitefulFox on Nov 3, 2012 3:57:06 GMT
Telling the truth and telling what you think is the truth are two different things, though.
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Post by warrl on Nov 3, 2012 4:27:04 GMT
Now, assuming Coyote's theory is true, and not just a cruel prank he plays on Ysengrin to advance the latter's madness, Third possibility, Coyote is telling the truth as he knows it - but he knows it poorly. Coyote, according to his own story, was created retroactively. No reason Jones couldn't be created retroactively too.
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Post by thesteve on Nov 3, 2012 7:29:42 GMT
This comic is no longer working. The jpg seems to be missing, and there is an error in the source: <span class="rss-id"><center><img src="http://www.gunnerkrigg.com//comics/00001112.jpg" alt="Chapter 40: Page 19" border="0" /></center></span> </span> has too many slashes in the image source line...
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kel
New Member
Posts: 6
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Post by kel on Nov 3, 2012 7:55:14 GMT
Yeah, it's not working for me either. And to be clear, it's not just that there's an extra slash, as trying to access www.gunnerkrigg.com/comics/00001112.jpg (with additional slash removed) doesn't work either.
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Post by sapientcoffee on Nov 3, 2012 9:16:42 GMT
Page also no longer has comments! (Double slash is correct - if you look at older pages (they seem fine) they've got the same path and those work.)
(And welcome, kel!)
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wlerin
Junior Member
Posts: 62
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Post by wlerin on Nov 3, 2012 9:18:09 GMT
Coyote, according to his own story, was created retroactively. No reason Jones couldn't be created retroactively too. Right. I think you misunderstood my query, probably because I did not include retroactive creation as one of the assumptions. If etheric beings are created by belief, and if pre-existence is a component of that belief, they can exist prior to those who believed in them, of whose belief is Jones a result? The only source of belief introduced so far separate from the real world is the Court, which would lead me to believe that, given the truth of Coyote's theory, and that Jones is Tom's own creation and not derived from an outside source, she is the result of the Court's (or members of the Court's) belief in or desire for ... something. An impartial observer? I don't know.
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kel
New Member
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Post by kel on Nov 3, 2012 12:42:27 GMT
It's working now! (Also, it doesn't seem to matter whether there's a double slash or not.)
Thanks for the welcome sapientcoffee!
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Nov 3, 2012 15:19:25 GMT
...oh. I suppose I'm just wrong, then. Right. I think you misunderstood my query, probably because I did not include retroactive creation as one of the assumptions. If etheric beings are created by belief, and if pre-existence is a component of that belief, they can exist prior to those who believed in them, of whose belief is Jones a result? The only source of belief introduced so far separate from the real world is the Court, which would lead me to believe that, given the truth of Coyote's theory, and that Jones is Tom's own creation and not derived from an outside source, she is the result of the Court's (or members of the Court's) belief in or desire for ... something. An impartial observer? I don't know. Now this could be veeeery interesting. What if one of the Court's previous, current, or future experiments is to seed the belief of an immortal observer that's existed from the dawn of time, so that it can be created?
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percival
Full Member
there's a storm a-brewin'
Posts: 119
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Post by percival on Nov 3, 2012 17:47:56 GMT
How sure are you that it's rock? I took it to be seafloor sediment, but I guess that might be flatter... Yea, I thought sediment too - but on second look it's not flat. Volcanic rock pushed up from the seafloor is more likely. Then again, there's not a lot of erosion under water - so how is she going to free herself? She'll just bust rock I guess. So I'm still unsure what's happening here. I was thinking about this also. It seems like she's embedded in rock that's very slowly eroding to expose her. In which case she's probably been embedded in that rock for an awfully long time... perhaps since the forming of the earth itself?
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quoodle
Full Member
Just a man on a planet
Posts: 168
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Post by quoodle on Nov 3, 2012 18:50:58 GMT
In which case she's probably been embedded in that rock for an awfully long time... perhaps since the forming of the earth itself? Which brings us back to la goon's comment: Perhaps she was orbiting the Sun, and then her body mass began attracting particles from her surroundings, so that Earth gradually formed around her. Eventually magma streams, tectonic movements and erosion brought her up to the ocean floor. Just "being there" is not going to answer the ultimate question of her origins. Unless Tom wants it to be a mystery - making "forever" good enough for all but the philosophers among us.
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Post by wynne on Nov 3, 2012 18:52:15 GMT
As a professional paleontologist (yes, seriously), I've got to say these last few pages have been an awesome surprise. Well, Tom changed epochs to eras, but otherwise I was right. Since we haven't seen Jones' creation yet (how did she get buried?), and for symmetry with the other period groupings, I'm calling it for Monday... "Many eras ago". Don't know where we go after that! Eons? Before the Paleozoic Era (which the strip is currently in), geologic time isn't divided up into Eras--only the Phanerozoic Eon is divided that way. Eon is really the only time division he has left to use. My money is on "the previous eon." The jump to the Proterozoic would be anywhere between ~540 and 2500 million years ago. I am glad that you are taking this calmly. My archaeological instincts are very confused right now. ETA: Also, there goes the golem theory (sorry, I've been away for a week). Someone threw out that she might be the Seed Bismuth, no? Now the main question in my mind is if Coyote's going to show up. Because that would make the last chapter very sinister indeed.
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Rafael
Full Member
Cute and spunky
Posts: 202
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Post by Rafael on Nov 3, 2012 20:35:06 GMT
Goddamn sea scorpions. Used to be terrified of the things, them being extinct millions of years ago notwithstanding.
Ok, so... does Monday take us back to when she closed her eyes? Don't know why, but I think it'll take us back to her office instead.
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Post by lavkian on Nov 3, 2012 23:09:05 GMT
-Jones is four dimensional, and as such, exists in all points of time simultaneously; I really like this idea solely because its one of the ideas of the Aboriginal Dreamtime. (Or, more accurately, the version I know is that the Dreamtime contains 4 periods that encompass all of past, present and future, but because the Dreamtime is strong that time and space all of time exists at once) I'm hoping Tom can equate still Jones back to some existing myth - like the Dreamtime - because so much of the etheric we've seen so far is old myths been given a new perspective or twist. But then how would you explain Jones talking to Annie and saying she believed that "much about the history of the Court has been deliberately hidden/erased," and wanting to know more about Jeanne? Wouldn't Jones already know everything there is to know if that were true? Unless you're going to say that Jones DOES know and is just leading Annie on or something, then ehhhh Also, I don't think anyone else has noted that the sunbeams extend beyond the first panel? Not sure what the significance of that would be...
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Post by seaofalchemy on Nov 3, 2012 23:33:55 GMT
I think the answer is obvious; Jones is one of those characters, like Merlin in T.H. White's The Once and Future King, who was born in the remote future and is living life backwards through time. A.V. Suvoroff (First post) If Jones really is living life backwards through time, she wouldn't be having these flashbacks (assuming they are flashbacks) since she hasn't experienced them yet. Right? If she really is living life backwards through time, any memories she has would be of the future and not of any memories from "several centuries ago" or "many millennia ago," etc. I just copied and pasted my post from here.
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Post by smjjames on Nov 4, 2012 1:25:09 GMT
As I've said before, since this one far predates humans, how would she be sure to not leave traces of herself such as footprints? Since said homonid footprints shouldn't exist until a few million years ago.
I know it's a comic, but I find issue with her leaving footprints or otherwise of her existence that far in the past.
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Post by Per on Nov 4, 2012 1:40:52 GMT
I know it's a comic, but I find issue with her leaving footprints or otherwise of her existence that far in the past. The fossil record actually records only a tiny winy bit of all the stuff. She could have been drawing webcomics on mudflats all through the Devonian and we're still not going to find it.
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Post by smjjames on Nov 4, 2012 2:45:14 GMT
I know it's a comic, but I find issue with her leaving footprints or otherwise of her existence that far in the past. The fossil record actually records only a tiny winy bit of all the stuff. She could have been drawing webcomics on mudflats all through the Devonian and we're still not going to find it. I know, but still.
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Post by dailenna on Nov 4, 2012 11:37:28 GMT
I've had so many moments where I think, "We're definitely going to find out this week. Without a doubt, there's not much to go before we'll see what she is." I'm trying to prepare myself by thinking about all the things Tom could possibly show us before we get a definite answer, so that I don't get start getting impatient. At the moment I can only think of a few:
Jones before she was uncovered by the rock. How she got in there. Formation of the world (may be the same as the above point) Formation of the universe. Jones in nothingness. And potentially nothingness without Jones.
I figure I'll re-evalute at the end of this week, but my current estimate is we have one or two more weeks of flashbacks. I'm now prepared to enjoy the journey, but also willing to be proven wrong by this week's updates. Woo!
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 4, 2012 15:10:24 GMT
Also, I don't think anyone else has noted that the sunbeams extend beyond the first panel? Not sure what the significance of that would be... Oh, missed that. Looks more like a layering issue Tom didn't notice.
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Post by TBeholder on Nov 4, 2012 15:56:58 GMT
At the moment I can only think of a few: Jones before she was uncovered by the rock. How she got in there. Formation of the world (may be the same as the above point) Formation of the universe. Jones in nothingness. And potentially nothingness without Jones. Hello? ;D
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Post by davidm on Nov 4, 2012 20:49:50 GMT
Don't trust Jones!
Jones is an illegal warmongering alien who crash landed on earth long ago. She keeps trying to get earth involved in her intergalactic war and each time civilization on earth gets wiped out. (The only dinosaurs that survived Jones are refugees on other planets)
She is also an evil seductress, and involved in lots of abductions and probings of unsuspecting humans.
In the future she wears a mask to hide her identity and she is known as Zee Captain. (Google if you want more info)
Do not believe just this sanitized version of Jones, learn the truth, read the Weekly World News.
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Post by bluevitriol on Nov 4, 2012 22:36:18 GMT
I love the artwork so far in this Chapter, but Tom does have a few Bits more time to go if he chooses...
Days, Months, Years, Centuries, Millenia, Epoch , Periods.
Era is just a timeline of something specific, such as the Era of Jones- which crosses several periods apparently. What I'm waiting to see if Jones was around for the ELE that Caused the extinction of 60%+ of all life and started the Silurian Period. That would mean she has lived through TWO ELE's and Gunnerkrigg may well be her end-game creation as a means for Mankind to survive the next ELE.
I think Jones is Basically the Earths spirit and the seed Bismuth is her "Child." I'm probably wrong but I will thoroughly enjoy this story to whatever conclusion, even if we don't REALLY find out what Jones is.
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