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Post by imaginaryfriend on Sept 12, 2012 23:30:51 GMT
Welcome to the forum, all new people!
Semi-agree with OrzBrain's observation that Ys' reactions are a bit like a battered spouse. I think that on re-read what Coyote is doing becomes more clear...
Ys is powerful on his own, more so with Coyote's gift, and reacts to Coyote like an alpha wolf (his boss) because Coyote is more powerful. But Coyote isn't a wolf. Coyote cares nothing for pack-relationships and status as far as wolf society goes, except maybe momentarily if it's interesting. Coyote is willing to sacrifice the dignity that his superior power and position could grant him for a simple jest. Moreover, Ysengrin probably takes the form of a human(oid) as part of his role as the Wood's mediator, by which I mean he believes that humans who otherwise do not respect him should then recognize his power and submit to him, and also to Coyote. Apparently Ysengrin can't wrap his mind around Coyote or human ways of thinking. Probably that conflict is what has been driving him 'round the twist.
Is disagree with the idea that Coyote has a master plan. I think he was just planning on stripping Ys of his dignity and composure in entirety. With this page it is mission accomplished. This whole chapter Coyote has been yanking his chain hard-core and this is probably just the latest move in a long-running head-game. Antimony was an ideal detonator because she's mostly human (though the "boo" and successfully prodding her to tell him stories was icing on the cake). I doubt he would've been willing to sacrifice Antimony to this end, if Eggers would've been late on the save I figure Coyote would've intervened... not out of compassion, mind you, but to keep the fire-head girl around longer.
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Post by GK Sierra on Sept 12, 2012 23:54:17 GMT
If Coyote isn't the primary antagonist, then there is one hell of a twist coming up.
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Post by djublonskopf on Sept 13, 2012 0:23:35 GMT
Remember the last time Ysengrin lost his mind (in comic)? Spankies!He looked almost the same . . ..
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Post by sabriel on Sept 13, 2012 0:47:11 GMT
It seems like almost everything I wanted to say has been pretty much said already! Although, I think Coyote's 'ulterior motive' is just 'I thought it'd be funny,' and I don't think Ys was controlled by the trees so much as manipulated.
The most upsetting part about this page to me, though, is Ys's body language. I work in an animal clinic handling strange cats and dogs all the time, so I have to be able to read their languages quickly and accurately. And here, Ys's body language is so mournful. This is a dog in excruciating pain, emotional or physical. I can almost hear his crying.
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Post by blahzor on Sept 13, 2012 1:21:35 GMT
If Coyote isn't the primary antagonist, then there is one hell of a twist coming up. i still see the Court as the antagonist until we figure out what their idea's are as we really are only shown the forest (coyote and Y), the robots, and Annie/Kat/George/Smithy
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Post by TBeholder on Sept 13, 2012 2:07:13 GMT
What this scene reminds: "Ough, my head... what happened? Oh, right. There was that girl... then two fairies danced on a table. Oh, my head... what... then a stupid bird flew over and dropped a bug and they all threw sticks at it.. then... oh, Coyote, kill me now..."
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Post by MoonEcho on Sept 13, 2012 3:18:03 GMT
I just wanted to say I appreciate the striping of that lowermost root in the last panel, by Coyote's paw. Subtle and clever way to make a reference that the tree is linked to Coyote, as the root looks very much like Coyote's stripey leg. Y's getting a hug from both sides.
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Post by umwelt on Sept 13, 2012 3:32:15 GMT
tl;dr: I think we need to know more about Ys' past. I think most of the ideas above touch on the whole of it. I think Coyote's power, given to Ysengrin, has the instability to cause him to be this emotionally uncontrollable. There are no hints as to how Ys got his powers from Coyote, but Renard ASKED for his, and as I recall, Coyote's original suggestion to give Renard powers was rejected. So, if you need to acquiesce to a bequeathing of power, why did Ys agree to take this power that Coyote offered? Or did he outright ask for it, for some reason? We've all noted that Ys likes to maintain a man-like form with arms and legs, even going so far as to wear _clothing_, despite his hate for humans. Maybe the power he wanted was to be more like a human -- but still having control over something inhuman? Eggers' comment on how he has always been ready to snap only dates back as far as his own experience with him (I think). So what was Ys like before the current cast came into their roles in the Court? Whatever the case, I think Coyote's abusive-boyfriend relationship with Ys is pretty clear. He has always been more than willing to shame Ys in front of others, so why show all this affection now? There is no doubt Coyote is orchestrating _something_. I don't think I'm adding anything of value to the discussion. ;_;. Every voice has its place in a choir.
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Chrome
Full Member
The Shiny One
Posts: 232
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Post by Chrome on Sept 13, 2012 3:42:22 GMT
I haven't posted here in a while, due to issues with forgetting my password and all. But I have to add my two cents:
Is anybody else getting an Anakin Skywalker/Darth Vader vibe off Yssy here?
This scene here with Coyote reminds me creepily of the end of Episode III, when Palpatine puts his hand on Anakin's horribly burned forehead before having him hauled off to get his suit put on.
I don't think Coyote is going to kill him, but I think he IS going to manipulate him into something he's going to wish he'd had the stones to say "No way, Jose" to later. I can almost see a "Throw the Emperor down the chute" scene much later in the comic coming out of this... the way Annie said "He's not like that" in the earlier page echoes Luke saying "There IS good in him. I've felt it." to Leia in Return of the Jedi.
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Post by Mitth'raw'nuruodo on Sept 13, 2012 4:07:32 GMT
I haven't posted here in a while, due to issues with forgetting my password and all. But I have to add my two cents: Is anybody else getting an Anakin Skywalker/Darth Vader vibe off Yssy here? This scene here with Coyote reminds me creepily of the end of Episode III, when Palpatine puts his hand on Anakin's horribly burned forehead before having him hauled off to get his suit put on. I don't think Coyote is going to kill him, but I think he IS going to manipulate him into something he's going to wish he'd had the stones to say "No way, Jose" to later. I can almost see a "Throw the Emperor down the chute" scene much later in the comic coming out of this... the way Annie said "He's not like that" in the earlier page echoes Luke saying "There IS good in him. I've felt it." to Leia in Return of the Jedi. Coming from personal experience, the Lord Vader has very little to do with Ysengrin. Lord Vader was unabashedly working towards a broadcast goal. Ysengrin is much more into politics and subtle manipulation. Vader was into Force Strangulation. Further, the Emperor had no desire for the Lord Vader to be reduced to a Cyborg; he simply wanted him malleable. Here, Coyote wants Ysengrin in this situation. While there are levels of similarities, comparing Coyote to the Emperor Palpatine is unfair to both of them. Palpaltine was never in it for the fun, and Coyote is not nearly pragmatic enough.
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Post by GK Sierra on Sept 13, 2012 5:06:13 GMT
I haven't posted here in a while, due to issues with forgetting my password and all. But I have to add my two cents: Is anybody else getting an Anakin Skywalker/Darth Vader vibe off Yssy here? This scene here with Coyote reminds me creepily of the end of Episode III, when Palpatine puts his hand on Anakin's horribly burned forehead before having him hauled off to get his suit put on. I don't think Coyote is going to kill him, but I think he IS going to manipulate him into something he's going to wish he'd had the stones to say "No way, Jose" to later. I can almost see a "Throw the Emperor down the chute" scene much later in the comic coming out of this... the way Annie said "He's not like that" in the earlier page echoes Luke saying "There IS good in him. I've felt it." to Leia in Return of the Jedi. Coming from personal experience, the Lord Vader has very little to do with Ysengrin. Lord Vader was unabashedly working towards a broadcast goal. Ysengrin is much more into politics and subtle manipulation. Vader was into Force Strangulation. Further, the Emperor had no desire for the Lord Vader to be reduced to a Cyborg; he simply wanted him malleable. Here, Coyote wants Ysengrin in this situation. While there are levels of similarities, comparing Coyote to the Emperor Palpatine is unfair to both of them. Palpaltine was never in it for the fun, and Coyote is not nearly pragmatic enough. Yo, friendly heads up Thrawn, if you ever run into a guy named Rukh, don't trust him. The Nohgri still aren't over the whole slavery thing.
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Post by dante on Sept 13, 2012 7:04:37 GMT
Palemates 4 LYFE?
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leah
New Member
Posts: 17
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Post by leah on Sept 13, 2012 7:51:42 GMT
Semi-agree with OrzBrain's observation that Ys' reactions are a bit like a battered spouse. That's not actually what OrzBrain was talking about. They said that what Ysengrin did to Annie was really bad, even if he was manipulated by Coyote, and that rushing to make excuses for him and feel sorry for him because he feels bad about it now is exactly what batterers train their victims to do. They also said that it will be really messed up in the same vein if we get a scene where Ysengrin tells Annie she should be more careful not to make him so angry, or where Annie apologizes to Ysengrin for making him attack her.
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Post by Synesthetic Soul on Sept 13, 2012 10:50:24 GMT
This page broke my heart. Me too. Seeing Ys like that is just so... sad. It seems that once his adrenalin wore off he realized what he was doing. I don't trust Coyote on this page. I'm getting real creepy vibes off him right now. =/
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Post by imaginaryfriend on Sept 13, 2012 12:30:49 GMT
Semi-agree with OrzBrain's observation that Ys' reactions are a bit like a battered spouse. That's not actually what OrzBrain was talking about. They said that what Ysengrin did to Annie was really bad, even if he was manipulated by Coyote, and that rushing to make excuses for him and feel sorry for him because he feels bad about it now is exactly what batterers train their victims to do. They also said that it will be really messed up in the same vein if we get a scene where Ysengrin tells Annie she should be more careful not to make him so angry, or where Annie apologizes to Ysengrin for making him attack her. I think OrzBrain was onto something with the comparison and he does continue the same line of reasoning to Antimony and Ys at the end of his post. Perhaps I shouldn't have said "battered spouse" but I was hoping to haul the same train of thought to Ys and Coyote. So I guess I semi-agree with your correction. How about this: The situation is similar to an abuse cycle with humans. He can't turn on his tormentor so when he was worked up enough he vented on Antimony when she gave him an excuse. Where a human might have yelled at her or said something mean, or hit her if he was abusive, Ysengrin tried to attack Antimony with tooth and (wooden) claw because he's a wolf. And because he's a wolf I doubt he will apologize or equivocate like a human abuser would. Antimony is less powerful than Ys after all, so why should he? But I do predict awkward interactions between Ys and Antimony in the future. That sort of thing is one of the main thrusts of this comic. And there will probably be more incidents as Coyote continues to flex Ys' inflexible mind until it breaks (or possibly Ys figures out how to change his thinking).
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Post by Mitth'raw'nuruodo on Sept 13, 2012 21:01:33 GMT
Yo, friendly heads up Thrawn, if you ever run into a guy named Rukh, don't trust him. The Nohgri still aren't over the whole slavery thing. I was honestly beginning to worry no one knew who I was.
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Post by Serenissima on Sept 14, 2012 5:02:32 GMT
Yo, friendly heads up Thrawn, if you ever run into a guy named Rukh, don't trust him. The Nohgri still aren't over the whole slavery thing. I was honestly beginning to worry no one knew who I was. I'm English. If a gentleman wants to go about having blue skin and red eyes while attempting to conquer the galaxy through tactical genius, then that's none of my business to comment and single him out about it.
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