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Post by jayne on Apr 8, 2011 2:25:12 GMT
How is it possible to have a pool in a tank like that without it flooding the dorms? p.s. this was meant as an actual question, not a "Hey! that doesn't make sense!" Its a moon pool. On the right side, it would be like picture D
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Post by smjjames on Apr 8, 2011 2:44:04 GMT
While there is the unanswered problem of the kids having to deal with the change in air pressure (the bends), the wiki page says that if the moon pool is less than 30m (around 98-100 feet, the bends shouldn't be too much of an issue.
It's hard to tell how deep the dorms actually are since the only lighting seems to be around the entrance of the dorm, light fixtures on the structure itself, and internal lighting.
Given that the whole tank is pretty dark, I wonder if Lindsey origionally lived in the depths of the sea most of the time, and so prefers it dark.
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Post by hal9000 on Apr 8, 2011 5:59:18 GMT
While there is the unanswered problem of the kids having to deal with the change in air pressure (the bends), the wiki page says that if the moon pool is less than 30m (around 98-100 feet, the bends shouldn't be too much of an issue. It's hard to tell how deep the dorms actually are since the only lighting seems to be around the entrance of the dorm, light fixtures on the structure itself, and internal lighting. Given that the whole tank is pretty dark, I wonder if Lindsey origionally lived in the depths of the sea most of the time, and so prefers it dark. Ah, 30 meters is pretty close to the limit of normal recreational diving, and decompression sickness probably would be a factor there if it weren't accounted for. That being said, depending on how long the elevator ride was, it could at least theoretically be an airlock with built-in decompression chamber functionality. I'd be more worried about living long-term in a compressed nitrogen-oxygen atmosphere, since nitrogen narcosis and oxygen toxicity are likely to be factors at 20-30m depths unless they're using trimix or heliox ($$$$, rare, makes your voice sound funny) or something.
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Post by TBeholder on Apr 8, 2011 14:20:46 GMT
Perhaps the terminal understands a variant of Markdown. (stares in awe) coming soon: the "textcontrol", a feature allowing to start application via text input and get answer in log format. Builder generation.... <sigh> How would Lindsey be able to help Kat with Robot? She's a structural engineer, buildings and the like, not a roboticist. I doubt fiddly wiring is her forté, not with those claws. two words: synchro devices. Remember chapter 39? Kat was fussing over the design of the arm and probably the whole rig. I'm not sure what structural requirements Kat intends to have for the new body, but Lindsey could certainly give Kat advice, some insight, maybe even ideas. Even though Lindsey seems to be a specialist in underwater structures and possibly submarines and boats. That, and a life in the exoskeleton. Also, the participation of Lindsey would ensure that the New Seraph model is waterproof. How is it possible to have a pool in a tank like that without it flooding the dorms? Short answer: airlock. Long answer: it's pressurized. Decompression issues are moot (as opposed to Muut) if at least extra nitrogen is replaced with argon. They had air pipes and valves all over the walls, remember?
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Post by hal9000 on Apr 8, 2011 20:53:19 GMT
Short answer: airlock. Long answer: it's pressurized. Decompression issues are moot (as opposed to Muut) if at least extra nitrogen is replaced with argon. They had air pipes and valves all over the walls, remember? The major problem is with the compressed gasses forming bubbles in the bloodstream when pressure is removed; switching to argon wouldn't actually solve that problem. Also argon is actually worse in terms of narcotic effect than nitrogen, so it's pretty likely to be helium or some fraction of it with nitrogen. Neon would also work, though it would be extremely expensive (not that the court necessarily would care about expense) and thus isn't used as a diving gas in real life.
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Post by jayne on Apr 8, 2011 21:24:00 GMT
I admit I am clueless about diving, but is it possible to be sort of an airbell? Is there a way to exchange fresh air at the same pressure if it is at say, a depth of 50 feet?
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Post by zylonbane on Apr 8, 2011 21:24:47 GMT
Perhaps the terminal understands a variant of Markdown. (stares in awe) coming soon: the "textcontrol", a feature allowing to start application via text input and get answer in log format. Builder generation.... <sigh> What.
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Post by legion on Apr 8, 2011 21:45:01 GMT
I admit I am clueless about diving, but is it possible to be sort of an airbell? Is there a way to exchange fresh air at the same pressure if it is at say, a depth of 50 feet? I think that would theorically be possible in a closed space, but here there is a moon pool: the air must be at greater pressure to compensate for the water pushing in (if the air was as atmospheric pressure, it would be compressed by the water which would rise into the habitat, until the pressure difference evens).
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Post by hal9000 on Apr 8, 2011 21:54:37 GMT
I admit I am clueless about diving, but is it possible to be sort of an airbell? Is there a way to exchange fresh air at the same pressure if it is at say, a depth of 50 feet? I think that would theorically be possible in a closed space, but here there is a moon pool: the air must be at greater pressure to compensate for the water pushing in (if the air was as atmospheric pressure, it would be compressed by the water which would rise into the habitat, until the pressure difference evens). Yeah, they run most submersibles and submarines I'm aware of at atmospheric pressure, relying on the strength of the pressure hull to resist the water pressure, so it's perfectly possible. Like you said, though, a moon pool doesn't work unless it's either (A) above the waterline or (B) pressurized to some extent.
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Post by smjjames on Apr 8, 2011 22:18:25 GMT
I admit I am clueless about diving, but is it possible to be sort of an airbell? Is there a way to exchange fresh air at the same pressure if it is at say, a depth of 50 feet? I think that would theorically be possible in a closed space, but here there is a moon pool: the air must be at greater pressure to compensate for the water pushing in (if the air was as atmospheric pressure, it would be compressed by the water which would rise into the habitat, until the pressure difference evens). I'm clueless about diving too, but I do know some things. Also, one option that could work that nobody has brought up (at least I don't think it has) is some kind of double airlock deal. Even in that case, they would still have to deal with changes in air pressure. Edit: Wait, I think the airlock has been staring at us in the face the whole time. Take a look at 851, 852, and 863-866. Look closely at the layout, the moon pool is right down the hallway from the dorms, which makes sense to have it at the lowest point. Both times, the elevator opens right into the moon pool (whether its the only stop remains to be seen), so therefore the airlock system is built into the elevator system, somehow.
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Post by TBeholder on Apr 9, 2011 1:33:43 GMT
That. Programmers unaware of the existence of command line were first noticed more than 10 years ago. I didn't think about it much, but yeah, if this ran this farther, it will get only worse. So, the next week let's search for sites dedicated to the newest invention: the Greencar, a new two-wheeled vehicle powered entirely by rotating pedals! Though honestly it's not necessary: for people who didn't yet discover this "search engines" thingy it will be summarily immortalized (well, until the next editor, anyway) in w...dia. Yay! ;D Both times, the elevator opens right into the moon pool (whether its the only stop remains to be seen), so therefore the airlock system is built into the elevator system, somehow. Why not? After all, combining relatively (i doubt they're very deep) long drain and long ride only makes sense.
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Post by warrl on Apr 9, 2011 4:38:22 GMT
I don't think the moon-pool surface is anywhere near 30 meters down. Probably more like ten, or a bit less.
(So why is it so dark in the tank at such shallow depths? The tank is covered.)
That said, the presence of a moon pool - even as little as six inches below normal water level - proves pressurization and therefore an airlock. The elevators would be a sensible place for the airlocks, since they would mask a couple of annoying features of airlocks: the one-door-at-a-time rule and the waiting period for pressure adjustment.
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Post by hal9000 on Apr 9, 2011 5:48:29 GMT
Here is a rather funny illustration of what someone in a heliox atmosphere sounds like: Imagining Kat & Annie speaking like that whenever they're in the dorms is pretty hilarious .
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Post by zylonbane on Apr 9, 2011 14:15:30 GMT
That. Programmers unaware of the existence of command line were first noticed more than 10 years ago. I didn't think about it much, but yeah, if this ran this farther, it will get only worse. I first learned how to program on 8K Atari BASIC. I know very well what a command line is. But your attempted description of one was incomprehensible to me. I still can't figure out what "Builder generation" is supposed to mean.
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Post by jayne on Apr 9, 2011 21:43:01 GMT
That. Programmers unaware of the existence of command line were first noticed more than 10 years ago. I didn't think about it much, but yeah, if this ran this farther, it will get only worse. I first learned how to program on 8K Atari BASIC. I know very well what a command line is. But your attempted description of one was incomprehensible to me. I still can't figure out what "Builder generation" is supposed to mean. I think "builder generation" is a dig at coders who can't code a gui without a drag and drop interface. Think BASIC vs Visual Basic My first code was QBASIC and I think windows 3.11 had just come out. Yours probably predates that by 5 or 10 years.
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Post by TBeholder on Apr 10, 2011 11:23:27 GMT
How would Lindsey be able to help Kat with Robot? She's a structural engineer, buildings and the like, not a roboticist. I doubt fiddly wiring is her forté, not with those claws. Also: not much better or worse than fine welding (if any), and either way in the Court foremanning robots around is a viable option. I first learned how to program on 8K Atari BASIC. Then you will experience the fine meld of Déjà Vu and Schadenfreude. Only a matter of time. ;D I know very well what a command line is. But your attempted description of one was incomprehensible to me. Good, because i was too lazy to tongue-tie bicycles. I think "builder generation" is a dig at coders who can't code a gui without a drag and drop interface. Well, specifically for GUI, VYSIWYG is the right way to do things, but... This created a style. Even aside of tendency to skip preliminary research (it's either standard library or reinvention of bicycles) or think stuff through, it leaves a trace - and not a pretty one. As in "Enough rope to shoot yourself in the foot". Hence the habitual eye-rolling. But at least we get funny anecdotes.
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Post by Per on Apr 10, 2011 17:37:50 GMT
Cookies for whoever guessed that she might be a girl. XD When the crab first appeared I was going to post, "It's a female crab, from the forest", to account for the chapter title, but then someone else had already posted that it was from the forest, so I didn't post anything. I! Would! Have! Had! Cookies! Ogee!
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Post by jayne on Apr 11, 2011 0:00:45 GMT
Too often coders don't take GUIs seriously enough. A well designed GUI lets the user concentrate on the job their doing, not on the software they're using to do the job. A coder can write the most efficient software, but then throw it on a sloppy, overcrowded interface because that's not important to them.
Worst case to date: a gui had a text box marked 'inhibitor' with a value 48 in it. I asked what that was for, and they said, "The data is feeding in too fast. That number slows it down."
What was the 48? Seconds, milliseconds? If you want it to slow down, you have to increase that number? You expect the user to remember that? What if they enter a negative number?
WHY not use a SLIDER (Slow <---> Fast) Why make the user enter anything?
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Post by jasmijn on Apr 11, 2011 8:24:31 GMT
Too often coders don't take GUIs seriously enough. Well, if you let coders design GUIs you're doing something wrong. Not to say one person can't be both a coder and a GUI designer, though. But a GUI designer will take the designing of the GUI seriously enough.
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Post by hal9000 on Apr 11, 2011 12:32:10 GMT
Too often coders don't take GUIs seriously enough. Well, if you let coders design GUIs you're doing something wrong. Not to say one person can't be both a coder and a GUI designer, though. But a GUI designer will take the designing of the GUI seriously enough. It's all about separation of concerns, really. Ideally you'll have one team of people writing the backend and another team (hopefully with some industrial design people on staff) to do the GUI.
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Post by jayne on Apr 11, 2011 13:38:53 GMT
Well, if you let coders design GUIs you're doing something wrong. Not to say one person can't be both a coder and a GUI designer, though. But a GUI designer will take the designing of the GUI seriously enough. It's all about separation of concerns, really. Ideally you'll have one team of people writing the backend and another team (hopefully with some industrial design people on staff) to do the GUI. Ideally, management also understands the value of the GUI and ideally the customer doesn't hand you their idea of a design. "Who designed this layout? It takes 13 steps to enter a username? This is horrible!!" "The customer asked for it" *whimper*
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Post by hal9000 on Apr 12, 2011 4:54:10 GMT
It's all about separation of concerns, really. Ideally you'll have one team of people writing the backend and another team (hopefully with some industrial design people on staff) to do the GUI. Ideally, management also understands the value of the GUI and ideally the customer doesn't hand you their idea of a design. "Who designed this layout? It takes 13 steps to enter a username? This is horrible!!" "The customer asked for it" *whimper* Yeah, this can be averted in the V&V / customer testing phase (assuming the customer just didn't realize what a mess they were speccing), but it's definitely best to just design it right to begin with.
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