|
Post by atteSmythe on Jan 14, 2011 17:03:44 GMT
A reminder to keep secrets. That's a curious priority for Coyote. Well, she's done a good job so far this chapter of proving that she cannot keep secrets. Annie didn't honor the Court's wishes that a secret be kept, so he just upped the ante a bit.
|
|
|
Post by Aurelia Verity on Jan 14, 2011 17:19:07 GMT
Something i've wondered about ever since Coyote gave Annie the tooth:
Coyote is a powerful god, what if the sword that comes from his tooth is one of the few things that can actually harm him? If he has enemies in the forest, or at least beings who dislike him or plot against him, it makes sense that he is relieved at the fact that the tooth is back at the court. this would explain why he says "Even Ysengrin" (Ysengrin is devoted to Coyote, he wouldn't go against him, but Coyote wants to make sure that the the tooth/sword is never mentioned in the forest) and why he goes to such lengths to keep Annie from telling anyone about it.
|
|
|
Post by legion on Jan 14, 2011 17:28:47 GMT
What is Coyote up to? Why doesn't he want the forest to know about the tooth? Because they can't handle the tooth. Oh buuuuuuuuurn.
|
|
solus
New Member
Posts: 7
|
Post by solus on Jan 14, 2011 17:37:57 GMT
OK I have a slightly different take. Coyote said that he was going to help Annie learn to control her inner feelings. Maybe this is just lesson one, with some seriously powerful motivation.
|
|
aegis
New Member
Above and beyond
Posts: 30
|
Post by aegis on Jan 14, 2011 17:39:49 GMT
I wasn't expecting Coyote to be so obvious, but I had a feeling he'd pull something like this. Coyote is not a cuddly buddy to put your trust in, and certainly not someone to run to when you are confused and emotional (easy pickings that way).
Remember that Coyote has murdered, cheated, used women and fooled his way through every myth he appears in. He makes cosmic mistakes trivially and yet cannot be considered evil outright, and now has control over our heroine....
|
|
|
Post by remael on Jan 14, 2011 17:48:07 GMT
Okay, a few things I think we can safely assume from the update:
1.) It was imperative to Coyote that he told Annie this now. He could have waited until Jones left to pull this, but instead it seems that it was important enough for him to completely stop time instead. This runs the added risk of Jones noticing the bind once time resumes (given that it's not etheric or otherwise invisible to the casual observer), so we can assume Coyote has a reason that he needed to do this now.
2.) After Annie says she left the Tooth in her room, Coyote says "Good, good." This could have two potential meanings: it is good that she did not bring it with her, or it is good that it is in her room.
The former is further impressed upon in this update, because it would seem the Coyote does not want the forest creatures to know about the Tooth. The latter, on the other hand, could imply that he plans to use the Tooth for something in the Court, possibly something that required Annie to be absent? (The Tooth was still once part of Coyote's body, who's to say he still can't control it?)
3.) We saw that he does not wish the forest residents to know about the Tooth, and now we see some added incentive for Annie to keep quiet. Here, he tells Annie not to tell anyone in the forest, but does not specify the Court. This could be because, as Annie will be spending the summer in the forest, she will not be in contact with anyone from the Court. This could be evidence that Coyote plans to do something with the Tooth while Annie is in the forest.
Of course, the biggest question we face now is why Coyote wants to keep the Tooth a secret from anyone in the forest.
|
|
|
Post by zylonbane on Jan 14, 2011 18:01:10 GMT
Maybe the hand will fall off once she leaves the forest? Then that's technically not a lie. You monster.
|
|
|
Post by hifranc on Jan 14, 2011 18:08:26 GMT
[...] That might also explain why Coyote was desperate to give his powers to Ysengrin and Renard, and therefore why the Court had Surma trap Renard as a risk. Correction, it was only Reynard not Ysengrin.
|
|
|
Post by warrl on Jan 14, 2011 18:17:19 GMT
That makes sense, except that Coyote only forbade Annie from telling anybody in the forest. I don't think he has a problem with the Court knowing about it, else he would have said something when he first gave the tooth away. At the moment (an unusually long moment), Jones is in the forest.
|
|
|
Post by atteSmythe on Jan 14, 2011 18:34:57 GMT
OK I have a slightly different take. Coyote said that he was going to help Annie learn to control her inner feelings. Maybe this is just lesson one, with some seriously powerful motivation. This is an excellent take on the situation, IMO.
|
|
|
Post by Per on Jan 14, 2011 18:55:01 GMT
The general judgement on Coyote in the forum is less harsh than I expected. The word that seems to be bandied about the most is "creepy". I wouldn't say threatening a girl with mutilation is creepy, I'd say it's evil. What is Coyote up to? Why doesn't he want the forest to know about the tooth? Because they can't handle the tooth. *cookie*
|
|
|
Post by fronzel on Jan 14, 2011 19:01:16 GMT
No one in the Court ever threatened to cut part of Annie off. =P The general judgement on Coyote in the forum is less harsh than I expected. The word that seems to be bandied about the most is "creepy". I wouldn't say threatening a girl with mutilation is creepy, I'd say it's evil. This place seems biased towards Coyote and the forest. Haven't you read the horrible things people have written about Court because they don't make it a point to share all their secrets with a 13 year-old schoolgirl?
|
|
|
Post by bnpederson on Jan 14, 2011 19:36:47 GMT
I love this comic. Twisting and turning and never ending. At this point I don't even care if Annie does get her hand cut off because it'd be interesting as hell to watch what happens around it.
Will she stay in the forest all summer? How will Kat take it? What's so important about the tooth? How is Annie endangering the whole of the court? I'm not even interested in speculation, because my own answers aren't half as interesting as the story's own.
|
|
|
Post by TBeholder on Jan 14, 2011 19:57:40 GMT
TBeholder, I agree except... shouldn't Coyote's guarantee of safety include not getting her hand snipped off? Yes, until it was shifted into grey area. Basic safety rules are a reasonable boundary if he ensured they are known to his little guest and (theoretically) entirely in her power to follow, right?.. Now this means she will be fine as long as she doesn't jump into Annan Waters, doesn't step on tails of large vipers she can clearly see and... doesn't blab one little secret Coyote specifically told her not to blab or else. Threatening to chop somebody's hand off if they reveal a secret is the exact opposite of testing their character. A reminder to keep secrets. That's a curious priority for Coyote. It's a good lesson, though, and Coyote vaguely promised to teach her some self control... which - given her abilities - would be high priority even if she'd never know a single thing he wants to keep quiet. Harsh, but understandable. After all, he saw this very day that once Annie starts a hissyfit, anything less direct than a visible reminder of inescapable bodily harm simply doesn't connect. What else he could do? "It will zap you"? A little pain she can handle and go on, and would simply disregard in a condition when she's already hurt - it's not half a threat enraged Jones would be, and did this stop her? "Coyote is very fond of you." [...]This has to be some kind of learning experience for Annie. Chances are it won't actually cut off her hand but really sting if she mentions the tooth. I highly doubt he would be lenient at this. One, he promised; two, her ability of understanding this stuff should not be underestimated; three, she got a lot of "not as bad as could be" already. But if Annie thinks clear again now, a good idea would be to ask him to make this bracelet emit some alarm or mild reminder the moment she feels even mild anger (heat sensation probably is not an option, but almost anything else would do). For people carried away less easily and less far this would be more than enough, but i don't see how adding it to other measures could hurt. Okay, a few things I think we can safely assume from the update: 1.) It was imperative to Coyote that he told Annie this now. He could have waited until Jones left to pull this, but instead it seems that it was important enough for him to completely stop time instead. This runs the added risk of Jones noticing the bind Maybe it's not a risk, but the whole point: he knows Jones will notice and wants Annie to weasel out of this as a "good start"? Part-truth seems to be the best option. No one in the Court ever threatened to cut part of Annie off. =P Yes, but today Annie discovered that "good friends" kept from her information of life-and-death importance, without any visible reason better than awkwardness of the issue. Coyote gives a serious threat, but is clear about its nature and limits. Right now she's rather shocked, but probably still prefers this approach. How is Annie endangering the whole of the court? What would happen if Coyote did not divert Ol' Grin's rage to himself?.. So yeah, a case of "Loose Lips Sink Ships".
|
|
|
Post by davidm on Jan 14, 2011 20:08:56 GMT
A normal sword can not hurt Jones, who seems to need to be touching the earth at all times. (Jones can't fly or swim)
|
|
|
Post by Tenjen on Jan 14, 2011 20:25:44 GMT
owww SNAP
|
|
|
Post by fuzzyone on Jan 14, 2011 20:50:52 GMT
Look at this self-portrait Tom drew. What was on his mind that day, I wonder. Look at the date and consider the fact that he is some weeks ahead in the comic. Does he know something we don't? Tom never draws himself with hands. Also, his self-portraits always look like he's come from Zimmy's version of Sunny Birmingham.
|
|
|
Post by zylonbane on Jan 14, 2011 21:13:43 GMT
(Jones can't fly or swim) Because her weight and density are far in excess of a normal human.
|
|
Sadie
Full Member
I eat food and sleep in a horizontal position.
Posts: 146
|
Post by Sadie on Jan 14, 2011 21:32:52 GMT
A reminder to keep secrets. That's a curious priority for Coyote. Well, she's done a good job so far this chapter of proving that she cannot keep secrets. Annie didn't honor the Court's wishes that a secret be kept, so he just upped the ante a bit. Putting aside the question of what and how Coyote knows and/or doesn't know what the Court asks Annie to do --- So hey, any of you guys remember that time long ago at the beginning of the chapter when Anja told Annie an awful secret about someone very close to her that was yet another example of the Court liking to control those around them? And then a bunch of people got on the forums and some advocated her sharing that secret for good reasons -- the Court was untrustworthy, Reynardine was more her ally, Surma tricking him was wrong in the first place -- and some advocated her not sharing that secret for good reasons --- Reynardine isn't fully trustworthy, Annie doesn't have all the information, Anja may be right about the danger -- and every opinion in-between? While maybe no one reached a consensus over which was the best or more 'right' choice in the context, there was enough doubt over the nature of the secret itself that any answer required considerable deliberation and a paragraph-long justification to fly. So then Annie chose the answer "to tell" with the justification of "because I was mad and hurt", which pretty much even the people said "okay, Reynardine started it" agreed was the 'wrong' reason to have revealed the secret. And now it's turned into "Annie needs to learn keep secrets better". You mean the secret that a bunch of people had to justify being worth keeping in the first place? I guess what I'm getting at here is that the lesson of "you should keep secrets, even potentially unsafe and dangerous ones, because someone told you to and you won't like the consequences" is really awful lesson.
|
|
|
Post by jayne on Jan 14, 2011 21:37:02 GMT
(Jones can't fly or swim) Because her weight and density are far in excess of a normal human. AND even normal humans can't fly!
|
|
|
Post by hargharg on Jan 14, 2011 21:43:47 GMT
A normal sword can not hurt Jones, who seems to need to be touching the earth at all times. (Jones can't fly or swim) Jones on a boat.Not touching the earth.
|
|
|
Post by paxjax123 on Jan 14, 2011 21:53:34 GMT
Suddenly, I am thinking it's a trick from Coyote to test if she's trustworthy. I mean, "snip off your hand" could mean that it snips apart and falls off her hand, which my sister suggested. It wouldn't neccesarily be lying.
Although this isn't very likely.
|
|
|
Post by fronzel on Jan 14, 2011 21:54:42 GMT
This place seems biased towards Coyote and the forest. Coyote gives a serious threat, but is clear about its nature and limits. Right now she's rather shocked, but probably still prefers this approach.
|
|
Sadie
Full Member
I eat food and sleep in a horizontal position.
Posts: 146
|
Post by Sadie on Jan 14, 2011 22:15:29 GMT
Suddenly, I am thinking it's a trick from Coyote to test if she's trustworthy. But see, this turns a "test of trust" backwards. It's not "can I trust you not to do something that would result in your grievous bodily harm?" It's "can I trust you not to do something that would hurt me, even though it might benefit yourself?" A real test of trust is giving someone $10,000 and asking them to deposit in your bank account for you. It is not a test of trust to give them $10,000 to deposit in your bank account while threatening to beat them in the head with a baseball bat if it comes up a penny short. This is, in fact, the exact opposite of trust. What I see happening is that Coyote is doing something that benefits him (in one way or another) and in doing so, is reminding Annie that he has power and yes, he will use it against her if it's to his benefit. Not because he doesn't adore her, you see, not because he doesn't want her happy and safe, you see, but because it's to his benefit. And if she's really smart and clever and tricky, it'll benefit her too. Sure, Coyote would be sad if it ended up being awful for her instead. But he is Coyote, and it's not his responsibility if others are not clever enough to look after themselves. Don't worry, Annie, he'll sing a lovely song in your honor.
|
|
|
Post by zolotoi on Jan 14, 2011 22:24:38 GMT
owww SNIP ... I'm sorry, I couldn't resist.
|
|
|
Post by jayne on Jan 14, 2011 22:25:29 GMT
That would be...
SNIP OWWWWWWWWWWWWW!
|
|
|
Post by 5lizak on Jan 14, 2011 23:00:56 GMT
Coyote's tooth may be one of the only things that can harm Coyote.
|
|
|
Post by todd on Jan 14, 2011 23:31:57 GMT
It isn't just that the Court kept secrets from Annie, but also that its leaders have engaged in murder and dishonesty.
|
|
troll
Junior Member
Posts: 53
|
Post by troll on Jan 14, 2011 23:42:38 GMT
Suddenly, I am thinking it's a trick from Coyote to test if she's trustworthy. But see, this turns a "test of trust" backwards. It's not "can I trust you not to do something that would result in your grievous bodily harm?" Funny thing being, it's probably worthwhile for Coyote to conduct that exact test.
|
|
Sadie
Full Member
I eat food and sleep in a horizontal position.
Posts: 146
|
Post by Sadie on Jan 14, 2011 23:51:33 GMT
But see, this turns a "test of trust" backwards. It's not "can I trust you not to do something that would result in your grievous bodily harm?" Funny thing being, it's probably worthwhile for Coyote to conduct that exact test. Oh totally. It'd teach him a lot about Annie's limits and how far she can be controlled.
|
|