pasko
Full Member
Objection!
Posts: 224
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Post by pasko on Dec 29, 2010 14:34:11 GMT
Hello everybody, first post here.
Just wanted to share my opinion: Coyote did not know the ruse came from Surma. He knew (and we know it) that Rey was tricked, but he did not understand that Surma was involved.
He is now reacting out of pride, not to admit that he didn't know this detail. (he is clearly angry and pretending to be as jolly as usual).
My 2cp, Pasko
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Post by aaroncampbell on Dec 29, 2010 14:48:31 GMT
Hello everybody, first post here. Just wanted to share my opinion: Coyote did not know the ruse came from Surma. He knew (and we know it) that Rey was tricked, but he did not understand that Surma was involved. He is now reacting out of pride, not to admit that he didn't know this detail. (he is clearly angry and pretending to be as jolly as usual). My 2cp, Pasko Agreed -- I was just coming to post this idea as well. Coyote says, "Of course I knew Renard was tricked!" but does not say he knew who did it, or any of the details. And yes, he's clearly reacting out of pride. I find his eyes in panel 1 and teeth in panel 3 particularly creepy -- not at all Coyote-like.
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Post by khelek on Dec 29, 2010 14:51:17 GMT
For some reason this comic made me think that Coyote is even more involved with Surma's death...
total speculation, but what if Surma was barren and Coyote gave her the gift of having a child, but only one.... as per normal coyote's gifts has tragic consequences limitations: Surma would die if she had a child.
This would be the kind of long game Coyote would play... Surma has a child and dies, Rey returns heart broken, vengeance for stealing Rey. new exciting times ahead.
total speculation.
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Post by Per on Dec 29, 2010 14:52:17 GMT
He is now reacting out of pride, not to admit that he didn't know this detail. (he is clearly angry and pretending to be as jolly as usual). That's roughly how I read the thing as well. I don't know if I noted before that in 491, some of the Court buildings are depicted on the forest side of the gorge. It would be awesome to see some overgrown, dilapidated structures.
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Post by Fhqwhgads on Dec 29, 2010 14:59:28 GMT
For some reason this comic made me think that Coyote is even more involved with Surma's death... total speculation, but what if Surma was barren and Coyote gave her the gift of having a child, but only one.... as per normal coyote's gifts has tragic consequences limitations: Surma would die if she had a child. This would be the kind of long game Coyote would play... Surma has a child and dies, Rey returns heart broken, vengeance for stealing Rey. new exciting times ahead. total speculation. THIS. Oh I could totally see this go down like that.
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Post by jayne on Dec 29, 2010 15:00:12 GMT
For some reason this comic made me think that Coyote is even more involved with Surma's death... total speculation, but what if Surma was barren and Coyote gave her the gift of having a child, but only one.... as per normal coyote's gifts has tragic consequences limitations: Surma would die if she had a child. This would be the kind of long game Coyote would play... Surma has a child and dies, Rey returns heart broken, vengeance for stealing Rey. new exciting times ahead. total speculation. I asked Tom outright if Surma's condition had anything to do with Coyote and he said "No" Surma's condition couldn't be a fouled up Coyote gift because everyone knew what would happen if she had a child. No one knows how a Coyote gift will foul up until it does.
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Post by paxjax123 on Dec 29, 2010 15:21:42 GMT
AND THEN THE TREES OF GILLITE FOREST BENT AT GREAT COYOTE'S COMMANDS! AWOOOO-
EEhem. I'm glad Coyote didn't go berserk and destroy everyone.
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Post by Fhqwhgads on Dec 29, 2010 15:41:35 GMT
I asked Tom outright if Surma's condition had anything to do with Coyote and he said "No" Surma's condition couldn't be a fouled up Coyote gift because everyone knew what would happen if she had a child. No one knows how a Coyote gift will foul up until it does. Aw crackers. Thought I had that one all psyched out too. Also, and I know I should've said this like months ago but, Hi Jayne, good to see you again! (I remember you from (I think) the Wapsi pub and also Seq. Art (obv).)
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Post by jayne on Dec 29, 2010 15:44:39 GMT
I asked Tom outright if Surma's condition had anything to do with Coyote and he said "No" Surma's condition couldn't be a fouled up Coyote gift because everyone knew what would happen if she had a child. No one knows how a Coyote gift will foul up until it does. Aw crackers. Thought I had that one all psyched out too. Also, and I know I should've said this like months ago but, Hi Jayne, good to see you again! (I remember you from (I think) the Wapsi pub and also Seq. Art (obv).) I thought that was you! Did you follow "It's Walkie" too? Good to see you again!
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Post by TBeholder on Dec 29, 2010 15:58:38 GMT
Well.... I bet Annie feels pretty darn stupid right about now. If anything, the face in the last panel helps solidify that theory >> Outderailed! ;D Poor Ys, left out of the loop Yes... also? KINDRED SPIRIT!For me, the most interesting thing in this page is that Ysengrin is outraged. He's a wolf. The whole pack is more important than its internal relations. Also, yes, the first time he disagrees with Coyote onscreen. Note the last panel with Coyote. From his wording, it sounds as if he doesn't know about Surma's condition. Really. Now it's our turn to reread everything in the context of these new revelations. If it is true, how does Jones know that Annie found out? Either from Renard or guessed from the power of this freakout and Annie's face. And why try to keep it from Coyote? Thousand and one reason. For one, Coyote may immediately propose Annie to break the chain - either via the Test or through one of his gift aimed at fixing this problem. Which smells of an even worse disaster. And right now Annie doesn't seem to be in her best form to think it over. BTW, Jayne, from which page this avatar is? I failed to find it.
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Post by trailmix on Dec 29, 2010 16:00:59 GMT
Long-time reader and first-time poster; just had to register to share my initial sense of dread:
"It's not the middling laws of man that keep him there, but his love for you! ...and now I have you here."
Remember, she's not GOING anywhere she doesn't want to. Coyote didn't say anything about staying.
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Post by jayne on Dec 29, 2010 16:14:50 GMT
BTW, Jayne, from which page this avatar is? I failed to find it. This one!I asked Phillip Jackson if I could create and use this as an avatar and he said sure.
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haunt
New Member
Posts: 14
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Post by haunt on Dec 29, 2010 16:42:59 GMT
Long-time reader and first-time poster; just had to register to share my initial sense of dread: "It's not the middling laws of man that keep him there, but his love for you! ...and now I have you here." Remember, she's not GOING anywhere she doesn't want to. Coyote didn't say anything about staying. Oooo, this is precisely something that the Coyote of legend would do. We know that he still wants Renard back--that's why he showed Annie his body and told her to tell him it was there. He was trying to get her to convince Renard to return. Since that's apparently failed, he could try to use her as trade-bait. Good thing Jones is there. Good thing Ysengrin isn't exactly pleased about this revelation. Also, Annie: he stays in the Court out of his love for you, and how do you repay him? You throw his failure with your mother in his face. Thumbs up, Fire-Head Girl. (But you're forgivable because it's a mistake and you'll apologize when you get the chance, I'm sure.)
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Post by legion on Dec 29, 2010 16:48:53 GMT
Wow. What will happen next?
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percival
Full Member
there's a storm a-brewin'
Posts: 119
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Post by percival on Dec 29, 2010 17:02:27 GMT
Coyote already disclosed that Rey was tricked into being trapped in the Court. Ysengrin is standing right there, so he must have known at that point too. I'm not sure why Ysengrin reacts like this on the new page.
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Post by jayne on Dec 29, 2010 17:38:13 GMT
Coyote already disclosed that Rey was tricked into being trapped in the Court. Ysengrin is standing right there, so he must have known at that point too. I'm not sure why Ysengrin reacts like this on the new page. Maybe.... When Rey finally asks Coyote for body-snatching powers, he told Coyote all about how Surma loved him and wanted him to follow her. Coyote recognized this as a ruse (according to him) but he let Rey have the power anyway. Ysengrin knew Rey had been tricked but he didn't know Coyote could have prevented it, since Coyote knew about the trick before Rey was captured.
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Post by imaginaryfriend on Dec 29, 2010 17:56:31 GMT
Coyote already disclosed that Rey was tricked into being trapped in the Court. Ysengrin is standing right there, so he must have known at that point too. I'm not sure why Ysengrin reacts like this on the new page. I'm not entirely sure but it sounds like Renard may have been deemed a threat by the Court before Surma began to entice him into becoming trapped. Coyote may not be aware that it was the Court's plan all along; he might think the trickery just standard feminine wiles rather than a plan initiated by the Court from the get-go and carried out by Surma on their behalf. Antimony may have accidentally killed Coyote's interest in the topic by the way she phrased things and thus defused his anger and headed off a more damaging reveal. As for Ysengrin, whether he knew Renard's trapping was purposeful or not he'd still get annoyed by Antimony stating it plainly and be shocked that Coyote might be okay with leaving things as they are. If Antimony really wanted to sour relations between the Court and the Forest Ysengrin would be a more friendly ear. Telling him about Zimmy experiments, the extraction-stations, and the secret of how the Annan waters became fortified might make interesting things happen.
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Post by bnpederson on Dec 29, 2010 18:08:20 GMT
I will be legitimately disappointed if Annie just goes back to the court and goes on summer vacation.
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Post by 0o0f on Dec 29, 2010 18:22:53 GMT
I wondered if Coyote would say that at first (of course, it's a little late to say that now), but it would be a little strange if Annie's revelation was entirely harmless, especially with Jones' warning and everything. Seems like Ysengrin might be the one to worry about, though.
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Post by Refugee on Dec 29, 2010 19:53:34 GMT
For me, the most interesting thing from taking Coyote's word at face value is, he's angry that Annie thinks he, The Trickster himself, could be tricked on such a major point.
Second, Rey tried to take over Annie, knowing she was Surma's child?
I cannot begin to say how creepy-stalker that seems now.
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Post by King Mir on Dec 29, 2010 20:15:06 GMT
I will be legitimately disappointed if Annie just goes back to the court and goes on summer vacation. She can't be too mad at Kat's parrents when her parrents kept the same thing from her.
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Post by jayne on Dec 29, 2010 20:19:52 GMT
I think Ysengrin's line is wrong... "How could you leave him trapped there?!" doesn't sound like the right response and... well, they've left Rey trapped there for over 14 years now... why get upset about this now.
If the point is to get from "It was his own fault" to "I was thinking of stealing him back" then I think a better line would be: "You knew about this and then left him there??"
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Post by Tenjen on Dec 29, 2010 21:44:34 GMT
i doubt theres a statue of limitations on what pisses ysengrin off
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Post by jayne on Dec 29, 2010 21:51:11 GMT
i doubt theres a statue of limitations on what pisses ysengrin off This is true! He's probably still mad at his mother for having more than one pup in the litter.
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Post by todd on Dec 29, 2010 23:21:49 GMT
I think that some of Ysengrin's anger or shock on this page might stem from his hero-worship towards Coyote - and now discovering that the guy whom he looks up to allowed one of the forest-folk to be captured by the Court and held prisoner there.
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Post by Stately Buff-Cookie on Dec 30, 2010 0:49:00 GMT
Remember kids, Coyote never lies.
Pages like this are, in a way, more interesting than a right on BIG REVEAL simply because of how many small things there are shoved into innocent motion and subtle wording. I notice Coyote is being.. more Coyote than usual. I noticed he's been bending and stretching and morphing much more than usual since he showed up this time, but now it's getting ridiculous. It's getting a bit unnerving to be honest. It makes me think there is still something off.
I'll leave out the long list of new questions about how much any given person knew about this and why they didn't know/were left out in the cold. Cause it's a long list.
If I were Annie.. I'd probably go back and give Reynard the choice of returning to the forest and his real body. I'd command him to turn into a wolf first so I can give him APOLOGY HUGGLES first. Then ask him if he wants to go back. I wouldn't feel right doing anything else. ALSO, I think Annie might be one of the few that didn't know Reynard only stuck around because of some attachment he still had to her. It was obvious by how he treated her. That Annie didn't know shows how she's not really up on a little thing called love, but we already knew that.
Past that.. the first panel. I love it. That face. That Coyote face. I love it.
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Post by bodevanlot on Dec 30, 2010 2:13:42 GMT
This comic is Coyote at his finest.
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Post by q3 on Dec 30, 2010 2:56:55 GMT
In other news, Jones' eyes have both wandered off...
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Post by binarytears on Dec 30, 2010 3:05:22 GMT
"You think I was tricked? I am the GOD of tricks!"
Also... Jones, sails, wind taken from.
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nostalgia
New Member
"Let me consult my advisor."
Posts: 4
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Post by nostalgia on Dec 30, 2010 3:59:31 GMT
Remember kids, Coyote never lies.Pages like this are, in a way, more interesting than a right on BIG REVEAL simply because of how many small things there are shoved into innocent motion and subtle wording. I notice Coyote is being.. more Coyote than usual. I noticed he's been bending and stretching and morphing much more than usual since he showed up this time, but now it's getting ridiculous. It's getting a bit unnerving to be honest. It makes me think there is still something off. Coyote has just seen his plan to fruition. He's not unnerved, he isn't serving pride, nor is he in anyway surprised. No, this is true chaotic glee. Renard will soon return to the forest, heart broken. Mission Accomplished. This is of course is speculation. Anyway, nice to be here guys! I didn't even realize there was a forum set up until a few days ago.
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