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Post by whattheziek on Dec 20, 2010 12:04:34 GMT
Well hey, Tony looks as much like Light Yagami as I thought he would. Which is to say, the resemblance is merely passing. Tenuous at best.
Creepy skull is creepy. Was Annie supposed to be learning about skeletal anatomy? Who knows? (Tom does)
Creepy little finding - a crack in the skull that runs from the nasal cavity to the point between the eyes looks like a tiny shadowy hand. And yes, that skull does look pretty freudian. The red border does not help.
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Post by basser on Dec 20, 2010 12:05:32 GMT
And suddenly, DOG SKULL!
I guess this is where Anthony told Surma he couldn't cure her.
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Post by jayne on Dec 20, 2010 12:32:27 GMT
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Post by Rex on Dec 20, 2010 12:51:24 GMT
I'm wondering if Annie's remembering this specifically because of what she just learned from Renard. At the time Surma said that to her, it probably flew over her head. But now that she knows what she did (even if she didn't do it consciously), it makes more sense.
Like someone brought up earlier, maybe Annie's worried that her father abandoned her because of this?
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Post by paxjax123 on Dec 20, 2010 13:37:58 GMT
... K, creepy.
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Post by wanderer on Dec 20, 2010 13:41:28 GMT
Like someone brought up earlier, maybe Annie's worried that her father abandoned her because of this? If by "this" you mean Annie unintentionally stealing her mother's life, then I don't think there's any "maybe" about it. I can pretty much guarantee that Annie's worried her father abandoned her because of this. Anyway, skull is creepy.
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Post by Elaienar on Dec 20, 2010 14:17:21 GMT
Like someone brought up earlier, maybe Annie's worried that her father abandoned her because of this? If by "this" you mean Annie unintentionally stealing her mother's life, then I don't think there's any "maybe" about it. I can pretty much guarantee that Annie's worried her father abandoned her because of this. Unless she did something ELSE -- okay, sorry, I'll save it for the Wild Speculation thread. On another note, it makes me happy that the hospital bed is so detailed and that I can see where Antimony's been chewing on the pencil.
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Post by goldenknots on Dec 20, 2010 14:23:48 GMT
Antimony may have a dawning realization that the problem stems from one of Coyote's gifts, whether to Surma or to one of her earlier ancestors. Grandmother, great-grand, whatever, it really doesn't make a lot of difference if it wasn't Surma, since Coyote's been around for a very long time. It might be time for some more spankies.
Loren
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Post by jayne on Dec 20, 2010 14:25:10 GMT
I predict the next frame is Coyote's face close up, replacing the skull as Annie wakes up.
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allec
Junior Member
Posts: 62
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Post by allec on Dec 20, 2010 14:31:05 GMT
Ah, indeed! That must have been the impression I had.
The red outline makes it even more creepy.
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Post by legion on Dec 20, 2010 15:29:01 GMT
From the pictures I've seen, this skull looks more like a wolf skull than a coyote skull, but I could be wrong. Definitively a canis skull though.
Also, since this flashback is also a dream, it could be simply the dream turning into a nightmare.
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Post by jayne on Dec 20, 2010 15:37:17 GMT
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Post by nikita on Dec 20, 2010 15:41:02 GMT
So, maybe Anthony left Annie because otherwise he would not be able to hide his anger from her...
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Post by barnox on Dec 20, 2010 16:40:48 GMT
I'm surprised this hasn't been suggested yet. But, we have the knowledge that Coyote's gifts are sometimes imperfect, and with the coyote skull in the last panel...
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Post by imaginaryfriend on Dec 20, 2010 16:53:58 GMT
The idea that the "fire" is inherited from mother to child has been mentioned before. Tom hasn't really confirmed or denied it. The closest he's ever said anything about it was when he misread a question on form spring (Is Antimony's mother dead instead of Is Surma's mother dead) and replied something along the lines of "Of course, that's the whole point of the story". Later on he realised his mistake and changed the answer to just yes, saying it actually wasn't important. This can go either way in terms of arguing one theory over another. I am still leaning toward the theory that the fire is something that passes from generation to generation. Also in support of it (besides what Renard said) is one other thing from Formspring: q: Was it a given that if Surma would have a child, it would be a daughter? a: yes
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mariposa
Full Member
Hi, I'm Elise!
Posts: 149
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Post by mariposa on Dec 20, 2010 16:54:22 GMT
Wow, I didn't even realize that was a skull. To me, it kind of looked like a woman who is floating. Her head and arms are thrown back, the little lines at the top that form a triangle are the bottom of her jaw, and the little scallop-y things at the bottom are toes. Of course, now that I see the pictures y'all have put up, it is quite clearly a skull, but maybe it is woman as well?
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Post by jayne on Dec 20, 2010 16:58:09 GMT
I'm surprised this hasn't been suggested yet. But, we have the knowledge that Coyote's gifts are sometimes imperfect, and with the coyote skull in the last panel... It has been suggested before but if this was one of Coyote's imperfect gifts, they wouldn't have all known what would happen if Surma had a child. Renard's gift killed when he used it but he didn't learn that until after he tried to use it. If Surma did get a gift that would kill her if she had a child, she wouldn't know until it started to kill her, not before she even conceived.
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Post by Xan on Dec 20, 2010 17:30:15 GMT
Can't help but wonder if Tom actually has the required license for that image..
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Post by dismalscientist on Dec 20, 2010 17:36:03 GMT
Can't help but wonder if Tom actually has the required license for that image.. Well, that's what a coyote skull from that angle looks like. It would be hard to prove one way or the other whether that panel is a derivative work.
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Post by legion on Dec 20, 2010 17:43:28 GMT
Plus, as I've pointed out, it could just as well be a wolf skull.
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Post by Xan on Dec 20, 2010 17:45:17 GMT
Can't help but wonder if Tom actually has the required license for that image.. Well, that's what a coyote skull from that angle looks like. It would be hard to prove one way or the other whether that panel is a derivative work. I agree, it's just the first thought that came to mind. And frankly I don't give a damn, personally. The awesome result is all I care about as a reader.
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Post by jayne on Dec 20, 2010 18:45:20 GMT
Can't help but wonder if Tom actually has the required license for that image.. He isn't using that artist's image. He made his own image. If you study art, you can draw the Mona Lisa and its fine as long as you sign it yourself. Your "Mona Lisa" is unique from da Vinci's "Mona Lisa" You only get in trouble if you sign it "da Vinci" and try to sell it Now, if he had cut and pasted that first image, then altered it, that would be another thing but if you look closely, you can see that's not the case. He drew this. Its his own image.
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Post by lamepudding on Dec 20, 2010 19:12:00 GMT
I'm surprised this hasn't been suggested yet. But, we have the knowledge that Coyote's gifts are sometimes imperfect, and with the coyote skull in the last panel... It has been suggested before but if this was one of Coyote's imperfect gifts, they wouldn't have all known what would happen if Surma had a child. Renard's gift killed when he used it but he didn't learn that until after he tried to use it. If Surma did get a gift that would kill her if she had a child, she wouldn't know until it started to kill her, not before she even conceived. But remember that Renard said earlier in the chapter that everyone already knew she would die if she ever had a child. I have to wonder, with all their previous dabblings, if the court tried to do what coyote could do. ie, they tried to create powers to give to their mediums, and this ended up being the side effect of it. Although that would suggest that Surma had a deep loyalty to the court, and I somehow think this is not so. I'm more inclined to believe that Surma was manipulating both sides to her own gain. Or perhaps, perhaps she was hired by the death gods first to help jeane, maybe thats why it shows a skull? -laughs- HERE, WATCH ME RANDOMLY THROW IDEAS AROUND. On a side note: Trickster certainly doesn't entail that they will do funny things, it mearly means that they are clever manipulators, and OFTEN tricksters are the main villains.
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Post by jayne on Dec 20, 2010 19:15:57 GMT
It has been suggested before but if this was one of Coyote's imperfect gifts, they wouldn't have all known what would happen if Surma had a child. Renard's gift killed when he used it but he didn't learn that until after he tried to use it. If Surma did get a gift that would kill her if she had a child, she wouldn't know until it started to kill her, not before she even conceived. But remember that Renard said earlier in the chapter that everyone already knew she would die if she ever had a child. I have to wonder, with all their previous dabblings, if the court tried to do what coyote could do. ie, they tried to create powers to give to their mediums, and this ended up being the side effect of it. Although that would suggest that Surma had a deep loyalty to the court, and I somehow think this is not so. I'm more inclined to believe that Surma was manipulating both sides to her own gain. Or perhaps, perhaps she was hired by the death gods first to help jeane, maybe thats why it shows a skull? -laughs- HERE, WATCH ME RANDOMLY THROW IDEAS AROUND. On a side note: Trickster certainly doesn't entail that they will do funny things, it mearly means that they are clever manipulators, and OFTEN tricksters are the main villains. Hi and Welcome Aboard! "everyone already knew she would die if she ever had a child." That's the point, they did know. If it was a Coyote screw up or a Coyote-like Court screw up... they wouldn't know in advance. Since they did know in advance, it couldn't be an unknown screw up.
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Post by lamepudding on Dec 20, 2010 19:21:10 GMT
Hi and Welcome Aboard! "everyone already knew she would die if she ever had a child." Yes but the point is, how did they know? If it was a Coyote screw up or a Coyote-like Court screw up... they wouldn't know in advance. Oh, very true. Hmm. Maybe it has something to do with Phoenixes, thats the only thing I can surmise, and its probably already been guessed a thousand times. Cos annie is, essentially, Surma's rebirth. As always, we wait for Tom to reveal his clever plan. Thanks
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Post by jayne on Dec 20, 2010 19:23:25 GMT
Hi and Welcome Aboard! "everyone already knew she would die if she ever had a child." Yes but the point is, how did they know? If it was a Coyote screw up or a Coyote-like Court screw up... they wouldn't know in advance. Oh, very true. Hmm. Maybe it has something to do with Phoenixes, thats the only thing I can surmise, and its probably already been guessed a thousand times. Cos annie is, essentially, Surma's rebirth. As always, we wait for Tom to reveal his clever plan. Thanks Ah... a phoenix theory... I think that's new. I like it!
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Post by Fhqwhgads on Dec 20, 2010 19:33:25 GMT
This next to your avatar I found frankly hilarious.
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Post by Elaienar on Dec 20, 2010 20:53:31 GMT
I was just looking at the page again and noticed that Anthony's not wearing a wedding ring. Is that a surgeon thing or have I got completely turned around and it's the right hand the ring goes on?
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Post by Zayzie on Dec 20, 2010 21:24:09 GMT
Perhaps Anthony tried and make a deal or something with Coyote, that led to Surma an him running off together, however he wasn't told until later that if he and Surma had a child that Surma would die. I think it would explain why he would be so bitter because I would think he'd be a bit more cautious if he knew from the very beginning that Surma would die if they started a family, and if he did want a child he would not be so bitter towards Annie to begin with. If there was something more malicious behind this all then I think Anthony's behavior would seem less irrational for someone as logical as him. To go into all this knowing from the beginning that Surma would die and still be that distance and harsh towards your daughter doesn't make much sense to me. Or perhaps he didn't believe it at first?
Someone said in the beginning of this thread that Surma was manipulating everyone, but perhaps she was being manipulated or tricked by everyone else?
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Post by dismalscientist on Dec 20, 2010 21:59:46 GMT
He isn't using that artist's image. He made his own image. If you study art, you can draw the Mona Lisa and its fine as long as you sign it yourself. Your "Mona Lisa" is unique from da Vinci's "Mona Lisa" You only get in trouble if you sign it "da Vinci" and try to sell it By this point I'm totally hijacking, sorry, and apologies if I'm misrepresenting you, but is the above generally true? E.g., if I took someone else's original drawing, copied it nearly exactly, signed it "James Cunningham", and sold it, I wouldn't run afoul of copyright -- at least in the US? This seems to imply otherwise: This appears to be the case in the UK as well, cite, if this counts as copying or adaptation -- unless it's fair use. Well, it's all a muck, I suppose. Regardless, given the nature of the anatomically correct skull in the comic, I just don't see how such a claim could be demonstrated.
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