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Post by scatter on Dec 17, 2010 18:04:34 GMT
Not the page I was expecting. I figured her falling asleep would be a scene transition to a Forest critter or Coyote.
This is much better, of course. =) Me wonders if this'll be a long flashback or a short one. Long = we see Anthony's face. Short = we get one more page of this.... two if we're lucky.
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Post by 0o0f on Dec 17, 2010 18:21:11 GMT
Aww, so Anthony did care for Surma. Unless it turns out he did't after all.
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Post by Refugee on Dec 17, 2010 19:33:30 GMT
Dying is always easier than seeing your loved ones die. I suppose you have died many times, to know this? I can't speak for Nikita, but as I said, I've seen this scenario before, in real life, where the dying are calm, and the soon-to-be survivors are freaking. I suspect it has to do with the dying having already accepted the news, to some extent, and knowing that thrashing about will not help those around them. It's their last chance to support those they love. Gah, "support". So cold, so clinical, so therapeutic, so weak a word.... "It's their last to chance to love the ones they love. " There. Better.
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Post by jayne on Dec 17, 2010 19:46:09 GMT
Spacemilk needs to actually experience the death of a loved one and her own death before she can accurately judge which is easier.
Spacemilk's final thoughts: "they were righ......."
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Post by Amethyst on Dec 17, 2010 19:58:08 GMT
"Surma, allow me to listen to your hand for a moment. Hmm... interesting. Probably irrelevant. I have more tests to attend to."
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Post by jayne on Dec 17, 2010 20:00:22 GMT
"Surma, allow me to listen to your hand for a moment. Hmm... interesting. Probably irrelevant. I have more tests to attend to." No... Surma's playing "got your nose"
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Post by TBeholder on Dec 17, 2010 21:04:22 GMT
From his Twitter: "Annie sees something she's never really seen before in today's page." But Annie is clearly there. How is it possible that this comic is something she never seen before. I'm pretty sure he means the younger Annie sees something she hasn't seen before this incident. That is, Anthony's un-icefished (thanks, Afalstein) moments? Either that, or now she also sees it in the light of Renard's news and/or Ysengrin's comment. Me wonders if this'll be a long flashback or a short one. Long = we see Anthony's face. Short = we get one more page of this.... two if we're lucky. Upper corners are round, lower corners aren't, so...
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Post by centzontotochtin on Dec 17, 2010 21:04:30 GMT
Is anyone else seeing the parallel between Anthony's stoicism and Ysengrin's distaste for showing weakness? Maybe Annie's decision to run to the forest has something to do with Ysengrin reminding her of her father, rather than her just trying to get away from the court. When emotions are running high, and you're surrounded by people who aren't exactly close to you, it's natural to try to get to the next best thing, even if it is just based on your impression of said thing.
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Post by Afalstein on Dec 17, 2010 21:04:32 GMT
Noticed something interesting: This page has a WHITE background(The divisions between scenes are white), as opposed to all the black ones we always have.
The question, of course, it was that means. It's not par for hospital scenes, I checked the broken glass and ghost story ones to make sure. And it's obviously not a random decision. It would give credence to the idea that this is a dream and not a real flashback, as most flashbacks don't have that. Unless it's just meant to convey the different tone, but that seems doubtful. I suppose it could be a dream OF a real event.
By the way, I think we are extremely unlikely to see Anthony's face just yet. Anthony is obviously in a very atypical mood here, any view we'd get of him would not be a good introduction to his character.
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Post by nikita on Dec 17, 2010 22:24:25 GMT
Dying is always easier than seeing your loved ones die. I suppose you have died many times, to know this? It's just my opinion. It also heavily depends on your opinion on death in general. Personally, I'm with Epicurus who said: "When we exist death is not, and when death exists we are not." With this im mind, you don't have to be afraid of dying. But this argument doesn't work when it's not you who is dying, but your spouse or kids. Note that I'm writing this from the perspective of a healthy young man. When people my age die, it's no peaceful event were we look back on our fulfilled lifes, laugh about the good old times and watch our great-grandchildren play in the garden. When people my age die, it's an accident from out of nowhere or a suicide.
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Post by zylonbane on Dec 17, 2010 22:24:53 GMT
Avatars, for anyone who wants them. Just be sure to credit me. So... don't credit Tom for drawing them, but do credit you for cropping and resizing his work.
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Post by fronzel on Dec 17, 2010 22:40:46 GMT
Oh, and that look on her face when she thinks she's going to spy on her folks and catch them smooching.... If that's what she was hoping to see, does that mean that her parents smooching openly was a regular occurrence? A further erosion to Anthony's cold fish persona
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Spike
Junior Member
Posts: 67
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Post by Spike on Dec 17, 2010 22:40:52 GMT
This could be Douglas Adams worthy. Well darn. Also, it's not like it's hard to save a page and cut whatever you want out to use as an avatar. :/
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Post by Refugee on Dec 17, 2010 22:44:41 GMT
Oh, and that look on her face when she thinks she's going to spy on her folks and catch them smooching.... If that's what she was hoping to see, does that mean that her parents smooching openly was a regular occurrence? A further erosion to Anthony's cold fish persona Exactly. The speculative look as she approaches, the way she sneaks the door open, and that smirk as she comes in all tells me she doesn't expect them to be watching TV. And yes, that expectation is born of experience, and yes, that means Anthony was...not clammy.
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Post by bookworm on Dec 17, 2010 22:59:46 GMT
I noticed just now that Surma is crying...and yet she's smiling... *sniff* Beautiful page, innocent little Annie is adorable ;D
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zara
New Member
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Post by zara on Dec 17, 2010 23:17:13 GMT
Annie's reflection in the floor of panel 6 is definitely Surma. From the height, to the more flowing dress, to the way the hair curls at the bottom.
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Post by Mezzaphor on Dec 18, 2010 1:35:03 GMT
Noticed something interesting: This page has a WHITE background(The divisions between scenes are white), as opposed to all the black ones we always have. The question, of course, it was that means. It's not par for hospital scenes, I checked the broken glass and ghost story ones to make sure. And it's obviously not a random decision. It would give credence to the idea that this is a dream and not a real flashback, as most flashbacks don't have that. Unless it's just meant to convey the different tone, but that seems doubtful. I suppose it could be a dream OF a real event. I noticed as well. Figured either this is a signal that this particular flashback is different somehow, or Tom's decided to change up his flashback style again. Seeing as the more recent chapters have textured backgrounds in the present-day scenes, that particular "flashback in effect" signal is no more; rounded panel corners on their own may not be enough of a signal. I asked Tom about it on formspring.
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ryos
Full Member
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Post by ryos on Dec 18, 2010 2:20:36 GMT
Noticed something interesting: This page has a WHITE background(The divisions between scenes are white), as opposed to all the black ones we always have. The question, of course, it was that means. It's not par for hospital scenes, I checked the broken glass and ghost story ones to make sure. And it's obviously not a random decision. It would give credence to the idea that this is a dream and not a real flashback, as most flashbacks don't have that. Unless it's just meant to convey the different tone, but that seems doubtful. I suppose it could be a dream OF a real event. I noticed as well. Figured either this is a signal that this particular flashback is different somehow, or Tom's decided to change up his flashback style again. Seeing as the more recent chapters have textured backgrounds in the present-day scenes, that particular "flashback in effect" signal is no more; rounded panel corners on their own may not be enough of a signal. I asked Tom about it on formspring. Simplest answer: it doesn't mean a thing; it just looked nice that way. Observe: Since all of the panels are predominantly white, the black background really stands out. The white BG stays out of the panels' way. BTW, stuff like this really shows the awesome attention to detail that goes into this comic.
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Post by Stately Buff-Cookie on Dec 18, 2010 2:41:49 GMT
The reflection on the floor in panel six looks much more like Surma than Annie, in my opinion. It could be another hint at Annie having taken a part of her mother. Annie's reflection in the floor of panel 6 is definitely Surma. From the height, to the more flowing dress, to the way the hair curls at the bottom. I never would have noticed if someone hadn't said something. That is so incredibly subtle. Tom puts a freakish amount of thought and planning into this comic. It's almost disturbing. I also hate it because I almost never notice on my own. So glad this is a webcomic. I get to read what other people think and enjoy the little realizations.
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Post by aaroncampbell on Dec 18, 2010 3:56:49 GMT
The reflection on the floor in panel six looks much more like Surma than Annie, in my opinion. It could be another hint at Annie having taken a part of her mother. Annie's reflection in the floor of panel 6 is definitely Surma. From the height, to the more flowing dress, to the way the hair curls at the bottom. I never would have noticed if someone hadn't said something. That is so incredibly subtle. Tom puts a freakish amount of thought and planning into this comic. It's almost disturbing. I also hate it because I almost never notice on my own. So glad this is a webcomic. I get to read what other people think and enjoy the little realizations. Seconded! This creeped me out when I read the comment -- my inner monologue said, "No way; I have to check that out. [pause] HOLY-COW-when-did-Tom-sneak-that-in?!" Tom, sir: once again, you are most awesome with the subtleties!
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Post by Max on Dec 18, 2010 4:02:16 GMT
So... don't credit Tom for drawing them, but do credit you for cropping and resizing his work. I was kinda assuming people would only be using them on this forum, in which case we know they are from Tom's comic.* * Also I don't really care that much if you credit me.It's very likely that this is the first Anthony has heard about her strange "condition" and the connection to their daughter. Maybe she never told Anthony what having a child would do to her, so that she would get to have a child. But then how do you explain 806 and 807?
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mariposa
Full Member
Hi, I'm Elise!
Posts: 149
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Post by mariposa on Dec 18, 2010 4:05:05 GMT
I think it's white because she's dreaming this while asleep in the forest, and her brain is saturated with etheric magic stuff, like in Old Dog's Tricks.
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Post by jtpetro on Dec 18, 2010 5:34:20 GMT
But then how do you explain 806 and 807? Reynardine tells the truth, but only as far as he knew it. Maybe he assumed Anthony knew. Or, maybe Anthony DID know, but didn't believe it. He has been shown to be skeptical when it comes to "magic" stuff. Or, he believed that whatever it was, he could conquer it with science. Only, now, he realizes it was all for nought. I really don't know for sure. But the hush-hush way Surma and Anthony left the court kind of jives with the "Anthony didn't know" hypothesis. I could be all wrong, though! haha. I never take my personal theories too seriously.
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ryos
Full Member
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Post by ryos on Dec 18, 2010 6:38:48 GMT
I think your second idea most likely. I think Surma wanted to have a child, regardless of the consequences. I think James wouldn't do that for her, but Anthony would. I bet Anthony thought he could beat the passing of the fire spike. He must have had some idea of how he wanted to approach the problem going into it. Obviously, he was wrong.
Renard accuses Anthony of selfishness. Personally, I think the opposite is true. Surma's wish for a child was noble and selfless, and Anthony's willingness to devote 13 years of his life to trying to find a way to keep her alive after the fact was noble and selfless.
His abandonment of Annie, on the other hand, is a bit selfish, even if it turns out he did it for selfless reasons.
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Post by paxjax123 on Dec 18, 2010 15:19:45 GMT
I think Anthony knew all along, but this is when he finally realizes he can not come up with a cure to save her.
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Post by Elaienar on Dec 18, 2010 19:25:52 GMT
Well, Renard said that Anthony was only capable of disdain; we know that this is incorrect, but maybe disdain was the only emotion Renard ever saw Anthony express. If so, then it's possible that he had a high opinion of himself as well as a low opinion of (certain) others, so he could have married Surma figuring that he'd fix the whole soul-sucking-death-baby situation in a couple of years tops, piece of cake, and then found that it was more difficult than he'd expected.
I'm also wondering if he didn't think that her illness was etheric in nature -- I mean, he's a surgeon, and from what we've seen he wasn't really interested in the etheric sciences, so if it was some kind of etheric malady, why would he think that he could cure it?
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Post by jayne on Dec 18, 2010 19:54:24 GMT
If you're not able to lie, are you able to insult, or is an insult understood as hyperbole?
I mean, a lie is telling something that is not true. An insult isn't about stating a fact or falsehood.
Reynard said Anthony was only capable of disdain but he meant that as an insult, not a truth statement.
If Reynard said Ysengrin was as dumb as a bag of rocks, he doesn't mean it literally so I don't think it would be the same as a lie.
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Post by TBeholder on Dec 18, 2010 20:28:05 GMT
The reflection on the floor in panel six looks much more like Surma than Annie, in my opinion. It could be another hint at Annie having taken a part of her mother. A really good observation. I really don't know for sure. But the hush-hush way Surma and Anthony left the court kind of jives with the "Anthony didn't know" hypothesis. Were there reasons to assume it was "the hush-hush way"? I suspect the exact opposite: a fiery, screaming, epic quarrel, in which both sides said way too much things they shouldn't have (like in Annie vs. Renard, or even worse), most likely right after (and over) that incident with Renard. Because no way Donlans wouldn't visit her unless there was some really massive and hot fallout. It just looks too much like self-exile. Not that i fully expect any "looks" to be reliable in GKC, of course. But still...
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Post by Elaienar on Dec 18, 2010 21:03:50 GMT
If you're not able to lie, are you able to insult, or is an insult understood as hyperbole? I mean, a lie is telling something that is not true. An insult isn't about stating a fact or falsehood. Reynard said Anthony was only capable of disdain but he meant that as an insult, not a truth statement. If Reynard said Ysengrin was as dumb as a bag of rocks, he doesn't mean it literally so I don't think it would be the same as a lie. Right, it's obvious that Renard was exaggerating, but most insults are grounded in truth (as the insulter perceives it, anyway). In other words, there was probably something about Anthony's attitude that caused Renard, years later, to choose to insult him by saying that he was only capable of disdain. I'm more inclined to think that he simply mistook Anthony's reservation for haughtiness, myself, given that he sometimes seems to take an instinctive dislike to people (such as Zimmy) without actually knowing much about them. (Or maybe it's that what he can sense about them is more important to him than getting to know them on another level? I don't know.)
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ryos
Full Member
Posts: 175
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Post by ryos on Dec 18, 2010 21:44:33 GMT
Well, let's not forget that Anthony stole Renard's girl. That she was never "his" to begin with doesn't matter—it's how he sees it. That's bound to color anyone's perception of a person.
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