What do the guides do exactly?

[jayne]

In chapter 16, two guides want to claim that boy... Tom said it was a territorial thing.

Later Annie says the family's unfair death ensured the world would continue to spin (whatever that means)

We know Annie walked her mother to the aether but she kept whatever part the guides were being territorial about since they weren't being territorial about Surma.

What do you think they're doing really?

[ryos]

Considering today's comic, Renard said there was "nothing to take". Well, clearly there was *something* to take, since Annie took it. It just wasn't what the guides were interested in.

We still don't know *what* it is that passed from Surma to Annie. We know it's a "fire", a "spirit", that it's related to or causes strong emotions, and we can guess that it has something to do with etheric ability. Oh, and that its absence killed Surma, and caused the guides to take no interest in her departed spirit.

Putting that together with what you cited, it looks like Tom is creating a semi-reincarnation in the gunnerverse. Whatever it is Annie received from Surma, it's necessary to live. Do the guides collect these essences, and bestow them on those they consider their own? Is that what the Dhoo meant by "the world will continue to spin; they'll make sure of it"?

[satanicpuppy]

The guides are clearly gatherers of the spirits of the dead. Depending on the religion/species/ethos of the deceased, a different guide may appear.

Clearly there is some form of reincarnation as well. That's what the "dead people make the world go 'round" statement is hinting at. A number of religions deal with this idea of a persistence of life energy...You come from the world spirit, you return to the world spirit.

Not sure how that plays in with different traditions...Are the psychopomps all facets of the same creation, or do their have their own roles, their own traditions?

Since Annie served as a guide for her mother, it would seem like she must have taken her spirit somewhere...I don't think she could be this upset if she'd simply absorbed it (not that this wouldn't have been upsetting, but that it wouldn't be a surprise now) That would imply a singular creation.

Seems pretty clear that for Surma (and presumably Annie) whatever animates them is singular, and different from the generalized world spirit. Not sure what this would mean, other than that they are special (which is a no-brainer).

[jayne]

"Gatherer" sounds more like someone who acquires spirits and keeps them for later use, like a farmer gathers grain and stores it.

The guides are leading spirits somewhere but then break contact. Do they get etheric credit for each spirit or something?

[scyllarus]

that has a terrible implication: the guides didn't take surma because they wouldn't get etheric credit :C

i think perhaps there's a difference between the "afterlife" and "soul" versus "spirit" and "whatever it is that makes the world go round." like...a pool of "spirit" that fuels each person, and that "pool" is finite, so the guides come and bring back the souls and spirits of the dead so that the soul goes into whatever afterlife it goes to, while the spirit returns to the pool o' spirit. annie and surma may be isolated from that pool, and are forced to recycle the amount that they have, which effectively means that each successive generation kills the generation before. so the guides had nothing to take but her soul :/

[Eversist]

I think what happened is basically all that was left of Surma when she died was a shell. And that is what Annie walked into the afterlife.

The guides presumably would only be interested in guiding souls... since Surma no longer had it, in the traditional sense (housed within Annie, one could argue that Surma still had her soul, just within another), the guides weren't interested/couldn't do anything for her, and Annie had to use her talents for this special circumstance.

[satanicpuppy]

I'm not sure that Reynard really knows why the Guides didn't show up for Surma. We may be giving him a bit too much credit.

The first time I read that part, I actually thought it was courteous and a bit kind for the guides to step aside in Surma's case. I mean, if it were your mom, would you rather walk her into the light, or just wake up and find that she was dead?

[ryos]

Nov 29, 2010 19:13:09 GMT satanicpuppy said:

I'm not sure that Reynard really knows why the Guides didn't show up for Surma. We may be giving him a bit too much credit.

The first time I read that part, I actually thought it was courteous and a bit kind for the guides to step aside in Surma's case. I mean, if it were your mom, would you rather walk her into the light, or just wake up and find that she was dead?

I've had that thought, too. If it were me, I'd be grateful for the chance to do that for my mom.

The issue (aside from Annie thinking differently from me) could be that she was never offered a choice; the duty was foisted on her without explanation.