nimue
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Posts: 15
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Post by nimue on Nov 29, 2010 10:34:08 GMT
My thoughts after today's page: (1) Damn! (2)Tom's handing out info about the characters clear and simple, just like that? (3)Darth Vader voice: "YOU ARE YOUR MOTHER" Annie: "NOOOOOOO!!"
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Post by Chemical Rascal on Nov 29, 2010 10:40:34 GMT
So, ultimate moral of Gunnerkrigg Court, as provided by Tom Siddell:
Your kids suck the life from you.
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Post by thereisnosaurus on Nov 29, 2010 10:41:34 GMT
annie get out yer' gun!
Or rather, this is actually kind of nice on the philosophical level- If there was nothing left to take of Surma, then Surma has not been taken- and consequently must exist within Antimony in some tangible capacity, given the idea of soul and spirit present within GC. Unless Tom's intention is that soul and spirit are individuality rendered tangible, in which case one might say annie ate surma for brekky with OJ.
This gives me rise to wonder what the ramifications of this will be on a spiritual level for Annie. In some senses she *is* her mother, on a level far stronger than genetics. She's uncannily similar to her in temperament, abilities and looks (as has been remarked upon in comic). Guh, this makes my head hurt. Gummin' mysticism... *mumble grumble*
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Post by blinkerstoned on Nov 29, 2010 11:00:31 GMT
Nothing to take....so basically Surma lost her soul Jeez,Tom,you're good at this.
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Post by blackmantha on Nov 29, 2010 11:10:48 GMT
But.. there was something to take. Annie guided her. Reynardine is either wrong or he's referring not to Surma's soul, but something else guides need from the departed.
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Post by Per on Nov 29, 2010 11:12:21 GMT
I'm starting to lean towards this being a nightmare or some kind of worst case scenario; the escalation is just so weird. For instance, why would Rey go on before about Anthony being "unable to save his own wife" if he knows Annie is the cause? If he really knew all that and really cared for Annie, he would dance very lightly around that issue. The whole sequence of events in this chapter just seems too condensed, too convenient. I'm a little confused here. By the content of several posts it seems that some people were actually surprised at the content of Rey's revelation, but I don't see how that's possible after the build up from the last strip. Not to mention all of this has been theorized on the forum for years, but of course most people don't read or memorize everything on here. But.. there was something to take. Annie guided her. Reynardine is either wrong or he's referring not to Surma's soul, but something else guides need from the departed. A good observation. Annie can wake herself up if she spots the logical inconsistencies!
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Post by deerinheadlights on Nov 29, 2010 11:18:35 GMT
Soooooo, who wants to bet the next page is going to end with a ripped up plushie?
I think rafk has an interesting idea:"Perhaps in this we also have the reason why Surma left Eglamore for Anthony. If she was dead set (no pun intended) on having a baby, and Eglamore refused.... "
I'm starting to think that totally makes sense!!
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Post by basser on Nov 29, 2010 11:29:51 GMT
Soooooo, who wants to bet the next page is going to end with a ripped up plushie? I think rafk has an interesting idea:"Perhaps in this we also have the reason why Surma left Eglamore for Anthony. If she was dead set (no pun intended) on having a baby, and Eglamore refused.... " I'm starting to think that totally makes sense!! "Anthony, I need to ask you a favor..." ... still probably less awkward than copulating with Renard.
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Post by quieteyes on Nov 29, 2010 12:13:05 GMT
But.. there was something to take. Annie guided her. Reynardine is either wrong or he's referring not to Surma's soul, but something else guides need from the departed. I thought of that, too. However, I was curious how Annie knew where to guide her mother to. After all, she was always curious where the patients went after a visit which implies that she didn't "walk" with them. This makes me wonder if Annie intuitively guided her mother, in essence, to herself. It would explain why Muut & Co couldn't get involved. If true, it makes for an interesting possibility: her ancestors are within her. As such, she might be able to contact her mother again (and grandmother, and great-grandmother, etc). She could certainly use a word from her about now (I wonder if that cut will affect that at all). My other thought was: what if Anthony was partially successful in keeping Surma alive? What if the mother usually dies at childbirth and Anthony was able to keep her alive until Antinomy was in her teens? If so, then diving head-first into more research to make sure his daughter doesn't suffer the same fate would make sense.
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Post by jayne on Nov 29, 2010 12:13:25 GMT
This is just speculation (not necessarily "wild")--but what if Anthony disappeared so he could continue research on Surma's condition without interruption (i.e. raising a kid) in order to save Annie should the condition ever pass on to her (i.e. she makes a baby)? Would kind of explain why he is avoiding contact with her. Anyway, very sad and heartbreaking page. I hate to say it, but I think Annie deserved it after the way she treated Rey. She has to learn that there are consequences for just running your mouth without any regard for the other person =( *I haven't read past this note yet* That might be why Annie 'has no time for things like this'. Her father might have subconsciously taught her not to look forward to relationships.
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Post by todd on Nov 29, 2010 12:14:17 GMT
I'd speculated for some time about something like this - but the revelation of how it tied in with none of the Guides coming for Surma in her final moments was something I hadn't expected, and a real shocker.
Annie being the cause of Surma's death reminded me of the story of Feanor's birth in J. R. R. Tolkien's "The Silmarillion" (for those of you who haven't read it, Feanor was an Elven-prince in the distant past of Tolkien's world, famed for his craftsmanship - he made the palantirs, among other things - but also for his pride and willfulness, which helped lead to a terrible war between the Elves and Morgoth, the original Dark Lord whom Sauron worked for before he became a Dark Lord in his own right). His mother Miriel dies shortly after giving birth to him, saying to her husband "Never again shall I bear child; for strength that would have nourished the life of many has gone forth into Feanor." (And Feanor himself is also associated with fire, like Annie - his very name means "Spirit of Fire".) This is probably a coincidence, though - a mighty hero's birth resulting in the death of his mother is a common element in legend. (Though the scenario that Reynardine is describing here suggests something more - maybe even a biological cycle that's been going on for generations.)
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Post by jayne on Nov 29, 2010 12:28:09 GMT
So THIS is why this entire fierce blow up had to happen... who else in this story would ever have the heart to tell Annie this? Even Rey wouldn't have mentioned it until now.
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Post by Eversist on Nov 29, 2010 12:35:45 GMT
I'm a little confused here. By the content of several posts it seems that some people were actually surprised at the content of Rey's revelation, but I don't see how that's possible after the build up from the last strip. Not to mention all of this has been theorized on the forum for years, but of course most people don't read or memorize everything on here. I think they just want a cookie. Because basically, that entire paragraph is saying "whoever is surprised at what Rey said is a complete idiot for not figuring it out earlier." Just phrased in a roundabout way. :/
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carth
New Member
Posts: 12
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Post by carth on Nov 29, 2010 12:39:57 GMT
The first thing I thought when I read this was "Oh my, it would appear that Annie and Reynardine are having a soul-crushing truth contest. I wonder what Annie's going to tear Rey apart with next."
Then, of course, I cried.
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Post by 0o0f on Nov 29, 2010 12:48:36 GMT
Ouch.
Well I imagine this won't inspire Antimony to be more romantic
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guyy
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Posts: 113
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Post by guyy on Nov 29, 2010 13:17:59 GMT
So...so...um. There's something missing here, still. It doesn't fully explain this (which is a crazily long-term setup in any case), because, of course, Annie was alive for many years before her mother died. Going even further back, this suggests some other reason why Annie couldn't leave the hospital. Most likely, her leaving would have killed Surma much sooner (presumably she sensed this, making her not want to leave); so, really, it's more like she was keeping Surma alive, not killing her. At least, I hope that's the explanation, because it's the only good side I can see to this. Yeeks.
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Post by Elaienar on Nov 29, 2010 14:01:50 GMT
But.. there was something to take. Annie guided her. Reynardine is either wrong or he's referring not to Surma's soul, but something else guides need from the departed. I thought of that, too. However, I was curious how Annie knew where to guide her mother to. After all, she was always curious where the patients went after a visit which implies that she didn't "walk" with them. This makes me wonder if Annie intuitively guided her mother, in essence, to herself. It would explain why Muut & Co couldn't get involved. If true, it makes for an interesting possibility: her ancestors are within her. As such, she might be able to contact her mother again (and grandmother, and great-grandmother, etc). She could certainly use a word from her about now (I wonder if that cut will affect that at all). My other thought was: what if Anthony was partially successful in keeping Surma alive? What if the mother usually dies at childbirth and Anthony was able to keep her alive until Antinomy was in her teens? If so, then diving head-first into more research to make sure his daughter doesn't suffer the same fate would make sense. I like you two. On a similar note of speculation, what if that's why both Renard and Coyote mistook Antimony for her mother when they met? Not just because of the physical appearance, but because she's actually got her mother's "fire" (whatever that is, exactly) -- maybe that's what they recognised. And ... "especially him", referring to Anthony -- could that mean that this illness, if it's hereditary, actually came from his side of the family? I mean, what if it's not an illness, it's something that kids in his family do unintentionally, and there doesn't have to be anything particularly special about the mother for it to happen. It might explain why he was so reserved as a child.
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Post by Mylian on Nov 29, 2010 14:06:44 GMT
See Annie, this is what happens when you fire Emotional Nukes. Mutually Assured Depression.
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Post by q3 on Nov 29, 2010 14:22:13 GMT
"And that, child, is the true reason that I tried to kill you: revenge! Revenge for stealing away what could have been! It was supposed to be my half-fox hybrid child who ate Surma's powers and left her to rot, not the worthless offspring of that damned Carver fellow. You are the reason why this comic doesn't have a large fanbase of furry/vore shippers. YOU!" So, I'm curious, did they all know it would happen before she was conceived, in which case that would justify some of the anger toward Anthony, or did the realize this would happen after Annie's birth? Even better, what if they realized it after her conception but before her birth? And now, in a Very Special Episode of Gunnerkrigg Court: Surma's Choice. But.. there was something to take. Annie guided her. Reynardine is either wrong or he's referring not to Surma's soul, but something else guides need from the departed. I thought of that, too. However, I was curious how Annie knew where to guide her mother to. After all, she was always curious where the patients went after a visit which implies that she didn't "walk" with them. This makes me wonder if Annie intuitively guided her mother, in essence, to herself. It would explain why Muut & Co couldn't get involved. Or Annie guided herself all the way to the front gate of the afterlife, accompanied only by her delusion that her mom was still around (she could still feel her mom's presence, after all, since it was now inside her).
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Post by phyzome on Nov 29, 2010 14:32:10 GMT
This adds a new spin to "I will never send you into danger."
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Post by crysiana on Nov 29, 2010 14:58:37 GMT
Renard set out to try and get Annie to act like a young adult, but she didn't, and she wanted to justify herself in not listening to Renard, so she belittles him in the only way she knows how, by distancing him from her mother and making herself believe that he never cared about her and that he was just trying to fulfill a role in life that he wanted. Which is partly true, but he probably cares a lot about Annie too. I think that this misses the rather important step in the conversation in which Renard started talking about how awful Anthony was. Annie got defensive and annoyed with him when he talked about her schoolwork, but she didn't lash out at him until he really started to get into what a terrible, unfeeling person he considers Anthony to be. This in no way justifies what she said, but to ignore that part of the strips really minimizes Renard's role in escalating the situation. On a similar note of speculation, what if that's why both Renard and Coyote mistook Antimony for her mother when they met? Not just because of the physical appearance, but because she's actually got her mother's "fire" (whatever that is, exactly) -- maybe that's what they recognised. Following that line, maybe Antimony and Surma are identical in their etheric appearance. This also explains the long-running questions of why Annie looks so much like her mother in her regular appearance as well. Now that I think of it, this also explains Eglamore's both calling Annie by her mother's name and his difficulty in separating her from her mother initially; if she has Surma's "fire," he probably expected her to be more like her mother. how close are we now to "almost 2 years"?) There's still another in-comic year to go. The "over two years" line was right before the last summer vacation. Though, on a related line - I'm honestly wondering what this will do to Annie's relationships with the adults at Court. Even if she and Rey can apologize and make up somehow for this fight, it might kill their relationship anyway, as well. If Annie thinks that her mother's friends only looked out for her because the spirit of her mother is inside her, it could crush any trust she has in them.
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Post by stephen on Nov 29, 2010 15:01:52 GMT
Wait! But shortly afterwards, on Twitter: " Oops, I misread that formspring question as "Is Surma still alive". It's not nearly as important as people think." So his Formspring answer was saying something along the lines of, "Of course Surma died. What story have you been reading?" The Formspring question has been changed to simply: "Is Surma's mother still alive?" "No." The state of Surma's mom isn't very important. That tells me this is not a generational thing. Surma's mom probably didn't suffer from the same condition. So we don't actually have reason to think that Annie will as well. False alarm.
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Post by paxjax123 on Nov 29, 2010 15:06:45 GMT
This is when Jack comes crashing through the window saying, "Er, um uh" And then everything cools down and we have a good laugh about it.
Right? RIGHT?
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Post by atteSmythe on Nov 29, 2010 15:21:56 GMT
Congrats to all who called it.
I'm thinking that this might interfere with summer plans. "All" certainly has to include the Donlans. Annie would've wanted to know sooner.
Troubling about 'especially' Anthony. Sounds like he either knew the truth, but refused to accept it as absolute (searching for a cure) or possibly caused the link in the first place, somehow. Love the implication that this is the reason that Anthony abandoned her. Twist the knife, Rey, what could go wrong? (Man, 'because of you' - it's what every kid fears)
Watch that background rendering, fire-head. You might just end up in Anningham in the next panel (no, of course not, but I do like the warped background as Annie's reality falls apart around her)
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Post by jayne on Nov 29, 2010 15:52:35 GMT
Well, now we get to find out exactly what kind of beast this Reynard is. Annie can have no other reaction than to just break down and cry and he'll be there to see it with no escape.
At first, he will be triumphant like Annie was a second ago but how long can that last. If he's capable of love in the least, he won't be able to stand that for very long.
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Kuraimizu
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Post by Kuraimizu on Nov 29, 2010 15:57:39 GMT
I analyzed correctly ...
Now for her to mourn her mother for the second time. And the tears will come.
oh Annie will have the saddest face.
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in answer to a few posts Raynardine is Saddened by the Death of Surma, He is not however angry at Annie for Surma's death.
As we just learned ALL of Surma's friends knew that she would die when she had a child. as too did Surma know.
Showing how much love she had towards Annie. that Surma would sacrifice her own life, so that Annie could live.
Reynardine could never hate or be angry at Annie for Surma's death, because he knows Surma Died out of Love.
Reynard is however Angry and Sad at how Annie responded to him when he was thrying to help her, and Annie broke his heart, and his memory of Surma. Right now he is feeling very hurt and betrayed.
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Reynardine will have basically Just one chance to quickly fix things. if he waits till things cool down it'll be too late. And the Damage will have been done. and will take days if not weeks to repair the relationship he has with Annie.
Reynardine: " Surma Also knew you were going to cause her death, just as Surma caused the death of her own Mother."
"Annie your Mother Sacrificed her life, so you could live."
"Surma died with the hope that your Father, and her old friends would help raise and guide you towards adulthood."
"That you'd grow, becoming a fine student, with those that love and care for you at your side."
"Annie dry your tears, Surma Loved you as much, if not more than, most mothers."
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Post by satanicpuppy on Nov 29, 2010 15:59:57 GMT
I don't think anyone deserves to hear that they were the cause of their parent's death, especially in this manner. If you think back, Rey was insulting Annie's father first. She just responded in kind. This is just one of those arguments that spirals out of control. Everybody is pulling out their sharpest knives, with no thought of the consequences. Nobody deserves any of it.
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Post by satanicpuppy on Nov 29, 2010 16:05:03 GMT
Wait! But shortly afterwards, on Twitter: " Oops, I misread that formspring question as "Is Surma still alive". It's not nearly as important as people think." So his Formspring answer was saying something along the lines of, "Of course Surma died. What story have you been reading?" The Formspring question has been changed to simply: "Is Surma's mother still alive?" "No." The state of Surma's mom isn't very important. That tells me this is not a generational thing. Surma's mom probably didn't suffer from the same condition. So we don't actually have reason to think that Annie will as well. False alarm. I don't see how that follows: If Surma's mom is dead, then she could very well have suffered from the same condition. She's never even been mentioned though, so it's pointless to speculate. One thing that I keep thinking is that there is a gift-giving character whose gifts always come with a price. What if Surma made a bargain with Coyote?
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Spike
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Post by Spike on Nov 29, 2010 16:19:42 GMT
Kudos to whoever theorized right. I remember seeing someone post something very similar to what happened. Or, perhaps, many someones. And not just the other day. Oh well.
This is a freaking intense chapter alright.
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Post by zylonbane on Nov 29, 2010 16:20:14 GMT
I'm going to throw in with those who believe that Rey is vastly oversimplifying, to the point of misrepresenting, the cause of Surma's demise.
I mean really now... she didn't have a soul after Annie was born? Come on now.
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