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Post by Rex on Oct 30, 2010 6:11:55 GMT
Yeah, I'll have to go with jayne's prediction here. He's the one most likely to have this flashback (since the other person in this scene is dead), and there's quite a few ways he could start reminiscing. Dreaming, something he sees sends him back to this conversation, etc...
Either way, fun times ahead!
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Post by Mezzaphor on Oct 30, 2010 6:15:57 GMT
BANDWIDTH LIMIT EXCEEDEDHappy now? Funny man, Girlbot's site was apparently already down by that point. It may have been because Tom linked to it in his own Twitter and on-page? Tom has a LOT of followers. Or it could be completely unrelated. It seems like just yesterday that GC got bandwidth-exceed'd by Questionable Content and Diesel Sweeties. Now GC is the one shutting down other webcomics. I trust that Tom will use this newfound power well.
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ryos
Full Member
Posts: 175
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Post by ryos on Oct 30, 2010 8:12:46 GMT
Does there have to be someone having the flashback? Comics are usually a viewpointless medium, and I've not noticed that anyone was "having" the flashbacks that were shown in the past. The only viewpoint scenes we've seen were from Annie's perspective, because she's the one "telling" the story.
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Post by Goatmon on Oct 30, 2010 9:04:09 GMT
Awwww Surma, you flirt! A dream mixed with a Memory would be my guess Only in a dream do I think he would have the courage to tell Surma his feelings face to face, when he was his old self. Why would you think that? Renard seems like exactly the sort of person who would be willing to tell Surma he loved her before he ended up with all the emotional baggage from whatever it was that happened when he arrived at the Court. First, I see no reason to interpret this as a flashback. We've seen other events in the past with no indication that one particular character was remembering these events at the time. This is most likely just backstory told from a third-person view. Also, it's fairly predictable where this goes, just from what we've seen. Reynard is strung along by Surma; Renard goes to Coyote to acquire the power to take on the form he needs to properly woo her; He does this, but is rejected for somewhat obvious reasons; leaving the vessel gets Renard pinned for murder (though he no doubt had no intention of it) and is captured soon after. Of course, this leaves out the vast majority of the how, why, and when, but I prefer not to go into very specific theories without pretty hefty evidence.
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Post by Goatmon on Oct 30, 2010 9:13:35 GMT
Does there have to be someone having the flashback? Comics are usually a viewpointless medium, and I've not noticed that anyone was "having" the flashbacks that were shown in the past. The only viewpoint scenes we've seen were from Annie's perspective, because she's the one "telling" the story. There are a few exceptions to this, such as A Week For KZat, and Weather Station. But yeah, just about every other chapter is told from either annie's view, or from no one's.
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Post by todd on Oct 30, 2010 11:08:27 GMT
I think that "Gunnerkrigg Court" has gradually moved away from "Annie's memories of the Court, narrated by her" to a more "multiple-viewpoint" story (note that the last time Annie's narration appeared, it was in the middle of Chapter Fifteen, and we're now beginning Chapter Thirty-one).
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Post by hal9000 on Oct 30, 2010 11:33:56 GMT
He does this, but is rejected for somewhat obvious reasons; leaving the vessel gets Renard pinned for murder (though he no doubt had no intention of it) and is captured soon after. That seems to be the likely course of events based on this (assuming for the moment that it is what actually happened, and isn't a dream) and chapter 20, though I can't imagine Rey engaging in body-snatching shenanigans being morally kosher even if he didn't intend to kill the host; for instance, what if, in this scenario, Surma hadn't turned him down? Would he have just kept the host body, potentially trapping the original owner inside his own mind for the rest of his days? I mean, I guess you could make the argument that life imprisonment is better than death, but it could also be a fate worse than death depending on the conditions of the prison.
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Post by Per on Oct 30, 2010 12:12:24 GMT
I trust that Tom will use this newfound power well. My vote is for shutting down Neil Gaiman's blog.
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Post by Yin on Oct 30, 2010 15:26:11 GMT
I trust that Tom will use this newfound power well. My vote is for shutting down Neil Gaiman's blog. Ehh. Tom's fish isn't big enough to eat Neil's fish yet.
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Post by evilanagram on Oct 30, 2010 16:33:09 GMT
Awwww Surma, you flirt! Why would you think that? Renard seems like exactly the sort of person who would be willing to tell Surma he loved her before he ended up with all the emotional baggage from whatever it was that happened when he arrived at the Court. First, I see no reason to interpret this as a flashback. We've seen other events in the past with no indication that one particular character was remembering these events at the time. This is most likely just backstory told from a third-person view. Also, it's fairly predictable where this goes, just from what we've seen. Reynard is strung along by Surma; Renard goes to Coyote to acquire the power to take on the form he needs to properly woo her; He does this, but is rejected for somewhat obvious reasons; leaving the vessel gets Renard pinned for murder (though he no doubt had no intention of it) and is captured soon after. Of course, this leaves out the vast majority of the how, why, and when, but I prefer not to go into very specific theories without pretty hefty evidence. Okay, nothing you said has anything to do with what I said, though the second paragraph is mostly accurate (though we don't know that Surma was stringing Rey along). Also, there are reasons to interpret this as a flashback. A flashback is a scene that takes place in the past from the point of view of the main characters of a story; it does not necessarily involve one character relating or remembering those events. The many scenes in this comic that took place in the past were all flashbacks, and since this scene takes place in the past, it's a flashback. It may or may not also be a dream sequence (probably not), but it's definitely a flashback. Furthermore, Tom tends to use rounded borders as an indicator that a flashback is in progress, as he does with this one.
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Post by Casey on Oct 30, 2010 16:49:45 GMT
Agree with EA, "flashback" is just a word that means "a scene from a past", it isn't necessary that it be from anyone's perspective. Anyone who watched "Lost" can tell you this.
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Post by evilanagram on Oct 30, 2010 16:56:46 GMT
On the "demonic bobblehead" thing: While basser might have phrased it better, there's no reason to be upset that she criticized Tom. I love Tom's art on the whole, and most of this page is gorgeous (I absolutely love the transition panels), but I can't stand Surma's face in panels three and five. It's the nose; it doesn't look like Surma's. She usually has a pretty straight bridge, but in those panels it turns upward and pokes out. Tom probably drew it differently because of the perspective, but I personally think it doesn't look very good. In fact, her expression in panel five is downright ghastly, though I think that might be partly due to her smaller-than-usual irises making her look slightly crazed.
Of course, that's just my opinion, and Tom's free to draw her however he wants to.
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Post by Mezzaphor on Oct 30, 2010 17:17:39 GMT
leaving the vessel gets Renard pinned for murder (though he no doubt had no intention of it) and is captured soon after. Rey was aware of the effects of his power. Here, Coyote's flashback shows that he tested the power on a rabbit in the forest before he took that young man. And we know that happened before Coyote took the young man because on the preceding page, Coyote says that when Rey tried to woo Surma, he was captured and never seen by Gillitie again until the parlay in Ch 14. Rey almost certainly would have preferred to not kill anybody, but he possessed that student—knowing darn well what the consequences would be—all the same.
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Post by Per on Oct 30, 2010 17:32:33 GMT
Ehh. Tom's fish isn't big enough to eat Neil's fish yet. We'll go after the blog first, have the fish on our to do list. Rey almost certainly would have preferred to not kill anybody, but he possessed that student—knowing darn well what the consequences would be—all the same. Did anyone speculate yet that Rey possessed Hyland just as he was drawing a dagger to stab Surma from behind after she had defeated him and turned her back on him in contempt (THIS IS SOME KIND OF TROPE I AM PRETTY SURE)? It all came about because of the... fire spike... yes, that's it.
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percival
Full Member
there's a storm a-brewin'
Posts: 119
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Post by percival on Oct 30, 2010 17:40:16 GMT
I think it's been established that the host's soul dies when Renard takes the body, not when he leaves it.
Edit to add: Critique of Surma aside, I'd like to point out how cool Renard looks in panel seven as he's gently twisting upward to follow her.
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Post by hal9000 on Oct 30, 2010 18:54:52 GMT
Did anyone speculate yet that Rey possessed Hyland just as he was drawing a dagger to stab Surma from behind after she had defeated him and turned her back on him in contempt (THIS IS SOME KIND OF TROPE I AM PRETTY SURE)? It all came about because of the... fire spike... yes, that's it. Yeah, that sounds just outlandish enough that I'm sure someone here will actually argue that (or something like it) as a serious position.
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Post by aaroncampbell on Oct 30, 2010 19:31:26 GMT
She died, and Reynard did nothing. Looking at it another way, Reynard died, and she did nothing.
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Post by Rex on Oct 30, 2010 22:44:30 GMT
I think it's been established that the host's soul dies when Renard takes the body, not when he leaves it. Edit to add: Critique of Surma aside, I'd like to point out how cool Renard looks in panel seven as he's gently twisting upward to follow her. Where was that said, Percival? Eglamore, Anja and Donald's comments about Sivo seem to imply that the true owner of the body is still in there, thus their attempts at extracting Renard without killing the host.
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Post by Mezzaphor on Oct 31, 2010 2:15:18 GMT
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Post by basser on Oct 31, 2010 3:03:12 GMT
On the "demonic bobblehead" thing: While basser might have phrased it better, there's no reason to be upset that she criticized Tom. I love Tom's art on the whole, and most of this page is gorgeous (I absolutely love the transition panels), but I can't stand Surma's face in panels three and five. It's the nose; it doesn't look like Surma's. She usually has a pretty straight bridge, but in those panels it turns upward and pokes out. Tom probably drew it differently because of the perspective, but I personally think it doesn't look very good. In fact, her expression in panel five is downright ghastly, though I think that might be partly due to her smaller-than-usual irises making her look slightly crazed. Of course, that's just my opinion, and Tom's free to draw her however he wants to. Right, see? It's creepy. Intentionally so, I had assumed, or I wouldn't have been saying it was demented. I think the thing is, the only other webcomic I ever actually post in the forums on is MSPaint Adventures, where saying the art sucks is most likely to result in a crudely-drawn horse dong from Mr. Hussie. You can basically say anything you want to that man and he'll respond with a big ole' middle finger. I forgot that Tom is more erm... I want to say 'sensitive' but that sounds a little condescending. Let's just say I don't think Tom would ever draw a giant horse dong in response to criticism, and that that is both a good and a bad thing.
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Post by Rex on Nov 1, 2010 4:16:45 GMT
Oh damn, themoreyouknow.jpg. If those three knew that they would've killed Renard ASAP. Suddenly that power is 100x more dangerous.
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