Chrome
Full Member
The Shiny One
Posts: 232
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Post by Chrome on Sept 21, 2010 1:15:53 GMT
I'm beginning to now think the "sacrifice" was a bit more complicated - not just Jeanne, but probably Elfboy too.
Put it this way - mythology attributes a hell of a lot of power to love. Imagine if love actually created an etheric link that could be somehow affected, and/or made to serve some other purpose? Seems to me what Elfboy and Jeanne had was a very pure thing - and even Steadman, in his own emotions, seems to see this clearly enough. Plenty of stories have the bad guys making use of the purity of a virgin, or the purity of someone's love to put some plan into motion.
So what if the bond Jeanne and Elfboy had was what Diego really wanted to affect with this arrow, using the link between them to power what the arrow did?
I imagine Tom's choice of it as a whistling and/or messenger arrow intended to ward off certain spirits is not by coincidence, and I imagine we're most definitely not seeing the whole story. I've a feeling we'll have a major aha from Jeanne's memories, and this is all leading up to it.
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Post by meghatron on Sept 21, 2010 1:30:12 GMT
Argh. All I can think of about this is: What happened to Jeanne's red choker?! I wonder what makes her start wearing it in the first place. [edit] Meaning it isn't there consistently until we see the events leading directly up to her death. The only time it's seen here is during the great divide image.
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Post by jayne on Sept 21, 2010 1:30:51 GMT
I'm not sure if physical contact is important but the idea is that the visions are not coming from Jeanne, she just triggered the reaction in Parley and Parley is picking up what we're seeing now. Also, Parley is really a ham sandwich. Okay, so what is your theory? Lets start with the most recent: How does Jeanne see Steadman's expression with his back to her?
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Post by Casey on Sept 21, 2010 2:06:00 GMT
+1 overthinking things
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Post by TBeholder on Sept 21, 2010 2:28:22 GMT
Three hours past midnight. Uh-oh. Yeah. So, all this story weaves together. Steadman doesn't seem to be enjoying doing this for her. Or exasperated. By her request, or the doomed nature of such a relationship, or her indecisive behaviour... Or this was the face he made the day when he already knows about the plan. He agreed to participate, but with a sour face. Let's not forget Steadman is playing double agent...jeeze. That's creepy. Not just Diego betraying her, but Steadman, who she trusted with at least enough information to get him to fire those letters off to Elfboy? The images suggest they were friends...or she thought they were, before she died. Yes, but how much of trust there was and thus how much Steadman betrayed her? We don't even know how big a secret this relationship really was? After the separation, that is (it seems that before everyone and their robot horse, just like Diego, could stumble on this pair in some or other quiet corner). He could be her confidant or just a good acquaintance whom she felt free to ask "please hurl this thing there" for an unexplained, but already known to everyone (and their robot horse) reason. He could see the text if he prepared arrows himself (i'd expect him, but we see her doing this - so it's unlikely) and tell others. Or Diego could know about 3 hours from a camera-bot or it just was their habit and Steadman sent the last letter already knowing the plan is in motion, or maybe he didn't see her after that meeting and before the night. Maybe he did quietly covet her himself, or maybe he would approve if she joined the elf guy but seeing her situation as painfully inconvenient (for the "star-crossed" pair and everyone around) wanted this to end somehow at last. See? Besides, why would they have to shoot her in front of Elfboy? The same as shooting him in front of her. You'll hear a whistling arrow coming. Maybe early enough to actually see it before it hits you (Bit of a strech, I admit. Don't think the ravine is quite that deep.) It isn't supersonic and not quite from behind, so i guess it mostly depends on how well elfboys see in the darkness. We do know Annie was able to have a flashback and get saved by birds before hitting the water. She was falling for a while. Or the flashback was for our benefit, she just remembered this event. I think that arrow was used as a model for the device but it made no sound. Whatever it did, whistling wasn't it. There was only the release as such on one panel and talks after in the next, nothing about the flight and hit stage (which could give a preliminary clue). IMHO a thing with such form will noticeably whistle even if you'll just swing it with a hand. I fear that the arrow caused her some aetheric damage, making her the guardian...just as her lover was crossing the river to be with her. That is, somehow forced her to kill her elf-lad as the first tresspasser? Unlikely - she seems to have at least some free will. Though this fits with "waiting" and it's Gunnerkrigg. Could be they killed Elfboy before, during the escape, and that's why Jeanne pined and didn't want to go down there. She was way too quiet and peaceful for this to be plausible. Remember her outburst? That was Diego just being irritating... I think Parley is having a psychic vision after Jeanne touched her. EVERYBODY thinks that. It's kind of obvious. I don't. And this new knowledge would be coming from... where? Maybe that's just how this "being a ghost" thing works. Or visions a ghost saw in the somehow changed water. What happened to Jeanne's red choker?! Now worn by Parley? It would be interesting if her old blinker is now brought by Annie and her old choker by Parley. Maybe she just left them behind. Or the Court guys didn't want to risk possible interference between any magical trinket and their "Device"? And that's exactly what happens now that there are two?
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Post by jayne on Sept 21, 2010 2:28:46 GMT
There was only the release as such on one panel and talks after in the next, nothing about the flight and hit stage (which could give a preliminary clue). IMHO a thing with such form will noticeably whistle even if you'll just swing it with a hand. I thought "shuck" was the arrow hitting the target and there was no whistle sound.... BUT now I think that's the sound of the arrow leaving the bow. We wouldn't hear the target being hit if its so far down. So, yeah, no clues here about any sounds made during flight. That being said, we can't tell from the comic whether there are actual holes in the device or if that's just a design. It would need holes to whistle. I think that front thing makes it spin in flight. (Based on maple seeds falling)
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Post by Goatmon on Sept 21, 2010 2:30:34 GMT
Didn't expect that the whole story is getting told. When is it ever?
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Post by secondofnone on Sept 21, 2010 2:34:14 GMT
What impresses me about this psychic flashback is how well Tom is doing fairly difficult thing, from a storytelling perspective. Parley is getting a massive info-dump from Jeanne, so quickly that it's painful. It's possible that Annie is getting it as well, since George is or was touching her as well. However, to make the info-dump comprehensible to us, especially without dialogue, Tom has to stretch it out over a fair number of pages. What's happening would be easier to show in a movie, or to describe in a book, but Tom's approach is working for me. I just imagine it as an old LP record being played at 45 or 78 instead of 33 1/3.
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Post by warrl on Sept 21, 2010 2:47:18 GMT
Okay, we see Jeanne writing on white paper, white paper being wrapped around an arrow, and Steadman firing an arrow out the window. So it's pretty well established that the white paper is Jeanne writing to Elfboy.
Whereas we see a hawk dropping off green paper. So that's from Elfboy.
(Why doesn't Jeanne us a delivery hawk? Well, she's not as attuned to wild creatures as Elfboy is.)
We can't read much of the writing, but here goes:
Jeanne: ....escape....
(Kind of supports my notion that she was held by force.)
Elfboy: ...THREE HOURS PAST MIDNIGHT... ...BE TOGETHER... ... ...Love you... ...be free...
That's all I can read
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Post by Molly the Sleepless on Sept 21, 2010 2:52:43 GMT
How do we even know that Jeanne was the one that was the one they shot with the arrow? If you look at her skeleton she shows no signs of being shot with an arrow. First of all there is no arrow; secondly she's laying pretty peacefully holding her sword, kind of like she just gave up and laid down to die; and finally her clothes have no holes, ether does her skull, in fact there aren't any marks on her at all.
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mariposa
Full Member
Hi, I'm Elise!
Posts: 149
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Post by mariposa on Sept 21, 2010 2:52:56 GMT
I like how steadman's clothing is more refined than when we saw him last. It creates an interesting contrast. Reminds me of Lord of the Flies.
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Post by Molly the Sleepless on Sept 21, 2010 3:06:46 GMT
I just realized, if you look at the new print of Jeanne the dark and light areas form a skull. Not really relevant but I thought it was cool enough to mention.
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Post by warrl on Sept 21, 2010 3:24:43 GMT
How do we even know that Jeanne was the one that was the one they shot with the arrow? That's been brought up before, and the conclusion is that the evidence is very strong but not absolutely conclusive. The biggest pieces, aside from her corpse lying there, are that they refer to her as ' the... sacrifice', and then immediately after the arrow is fired talk about erasing her from the records. Erasing her would be: unnecessary if they had helped her leave with her lover, so they didn't; and very embarrassing if she were to return, so they are confident she won't. Plus, if she had left or they thought she might be back, they wouldn't call her 'the sacrifice'. If you look at her skeleton her clothes are quite old and weather-ravaged, and also rather low on her shoulders - where she often wore them while alive. There's plenty of room for an arrow in her back, and she could have kind of slouched and rolled backward. Or maybe someone (perhaps with green hair) came and laid her out neatly.
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Post by arucard on Sept 21, 2010 4:14:57 GMT
If you look at her skeleton her clothes are quite old and weather-ravaged, and also rather low on her shoulders - where she often wore them while alive. There's plenty of room for an arrow in her back, and she could have kind of slouched and rolled backward. Or maybe someone (perhaps with green hair) came and laid her out neatly. I also believe that her dead body was somehow rearrenged. Even if she was not the target for that arrow, I can't imagine that she would have died in that peaceful position, almost as if she was sleeping... But I don't think Elfdude did it... He loved her too much to just leave her remains there. Even if he couldn't remove her from the bottom of the ravine because of something the arrow did I'm pretty sure he'd at least bury her or build some kinda grave to his loved one...
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jon77
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Posts: 245
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Post by jon77 on Sept 21, 2010 9:37:07 GMT
If you look at her skeleton her clothes are quite old and weather-ravaged, and also rather low on her shoulders - where she often wore them while alive. There's plenty of room for an arrow in her back, and she could have kind of slouched and rolled backward. Or maybe someone (perhaps with green hair) came and laid her out neatly. I also believe that her dead body was somehow rearrenged. Even if she was not the target for that arrow, I can't imagine that she would have died in that peaceful position, almost as if she was sleeping... But I don't think Elfdude did it... He loved her too much to just leave her remains there. Even if he couldn't remove her from the bottom of the ravine because of something the arrow did I'm pretty sure he'd at least bury her or build some kinda grave to his loved one... Hmm... here's another thought. If Jeanne and elfboy are on the Court's side, and sacrificing Jeanne makes the Annan waters impassable, how does elfboy get back home?
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Post by jayne on Sept 21, 2010 12:57:25 GMT
I also believe that her dead body was somehow rearrenged. Even if she was not the target for that arrow, I can't imagine that she would have died in that peaceful position, almost as if she was sleeping... But I don't think Elfdude did it... He loved her too much to just leave her remains there. Even if he couldn't remove her from the bottom of the ravine because of something the arrow did I'm pretty sure he'd at least bury her or build some kinda grave to his loved one... Hmm... here's another thought. If Jeanne and elfboy are on the Court's side, and sacrificing Jeanne makes the Annan waters impassable, how does elfboy get back home? The way I understand it is Jeanne is killing everyone that tries to pass. She would let greenguy leave if that was an option. There's still much that is unexplained though. Right now, if she were shot, she'd just die, not become a powerful, vengeful ghost. Something more is going to happen.
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Post by idonotlikepeas on Sept 21, 2010 14:11:57 GMT
Do we even know that the elf really wrote the message to her? It could be a forgery. That's what I was thinking...it's possible someone in the court is writing her the letters, and since she and her guy are on opposite sides of the ravine they'd never be able to ask each other about the letters. Not sure what purpose this would serve, though... To get her to go exactly where they want at exactly the time they want. It could go either way, though; either they intercepted the communication or forged it. It is still a bit curious that suddenly everyone knows about the meeting later, since presumably she would have wanted to keep it secret. That makes it more likely that the communication is genuine and once she replied and agreed to meet the elf there that there was less need for pretense; they can clearly force her to go wherever they want, but they can't force him to do the same. That would also explain why the plan will only work with Jeanne; she's probably the only one in the Court currently in love with someone from the Forest. (Although there may also be other reasons.) I imagine we'll be finding out more in a page or two, either way.
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Post by paxjax123 on Sept 21, 2010 15:31:47 GMT
I have a theory. Perhaps the "three hours past midnight" letter was faked to make Jeanne think it was Elfdude and draw her to the Annan waters where she would be killed. meh
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americonedream
Full Member
What are birds? We just don't know!
Posts: 213
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Post by americonedream on Sept 21, 2010 17:11:12 GMT
I have a theory. Perhaps the "three hours past midnight" letter was faked to make Jeanne think it was Elfdude and draw her to the Annan waters where she would be killed. meh Yeah, that's what I think as well. Also, that they had met up before at the same time so it wouldn't be an unusual time to meet up, just a regular thing.
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Post by evantha on Sept 21, 2010 17:57:21 GMT
I think Parley is having a psychic vision after Jeanne touched her. EVERYBODY thinks that. It's kind of obvious. And this new knowledge would be coming from... where? May be Parley's ability is in part some sort of psychometry
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Post by Snes on Sept 21, 2010 18:21:13 GMT
I have a theory. Perhaps the "three hours past midnight" letter was faked to make Jeanne think it was Elfdude and draw her to the Annan waters where she would be killed. meh I don't think so. She seemed really distressed at being chosen for whatever it was the Court was planning to do. Steadman's expressions in this page seem to convey that he's being friendly to Jeanne to her face ("Oh, it's no problem!") while disapproving of her actions in private. He signed up with Young and the rest in carrying out their plan, so he obviously thought the Court needed to take drastic measures to defend themselves from the Wood. Also, in response to the idea that the target from comic [658] is Elfdude, one line keeps jumping back at me: Young said "An appropriate amount of time has passed" when he had Steadman fire the arrow. If they were waiting for Elfdude to show up, it seems more likely that they would have just watched for him in secret. Young's line strikes me as if they were waiting for something to take effect, especially when he refers to how long Jeanne has been down there rather than the exact time.
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Post by jayne on Sept 21, 2010 20:39:28 GMT
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Post by arucard on Sept 21, 2010 20:55:36 GMT
Hahaha, Tom's answers on Formspring are pretty interesting to say the least...
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Post by cu on Sept 21, 2010 22:06:12 GMT
It is probably over 9,000.
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Post by q3 on Sept 22, 2010 1:51:25 GMT
It seems unlikely to me that any of the letters Jeanne received were forgeries - relations between the Court and the forest being what they were, I doubt anyone at the Court would have enlisted the aid of a messenger bird, nor would a bird of the forest be willing to assist such a deception. Likewise, we see Jeanne herself wrapping a message tightly around an arrow, and Steadman fires the arrow right in front of her, so it doesn't seem as though there was any opportunity for the Court to intercept her outgoing messages (unless they snuck into her room at night and read the drafts, 1984 style). Of course, it's hard to believe that the time of her escape and the time of the Court's plan both being 3 am was a mere coincidence, but it's possible the Court knew about their meeting time via other means. She could have mentioned it to someone, or she could have met him at that time previously, and the Court would likely have been tracking her movements once Steadman revealed that she was exchanging messages with the forest. The biggest pieces, aside from her corpse lying there, are that they refer to her as ' the... sacrifice', and then immediately after the arrow is fired talk about erasing her from the records. Erasing her would be: unnecessary if they had helped her leave with her lover, so they didn't; and very embarrassing if she were to return, so they are confident she won't. Plus, if she had left or they thought she might be back, they wouldn't call her 'the sacrifice'. It's also possible that she was dead before the arrow was fired, killed through some other means, and the arrow served a different purpose: say, to bind her spirit to the ravine by destroying or disabling her psychopomp.
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Post by arucard on Sept 22, 2010 2:38:42 GMT
It's also possible that she was dead before the arrow was fired, killed through some other means, and the arrow served a different purpose: say, to bind her spirit to the ravine by destroying or disabling her psychopomp. Didn't Muut tell Annie when she was down there that no psychopomps could get to Jeanne or something like that? If that's the case then I don't think her initial psychopomp was atacked, but something was done to her soul in order to prevent him from helping her cross...
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Post by idonotlikepeas on Sept 22, 2010 2:44:01 GMT
Steadman's expressions in this page seem to convey that he's being friendly to Jeanne to her face ("Oh, it's no problem!") while disapproving of her actions in private. He signed up with Young and the rest in carrying out their plan, so he obviously thought the Court needed to take drastic measures to defend themselves from the Wood. I wonder if it's her actions he disapproves of, or his own. Even if he believes in what he's doing strongly enough to go through with it, it's a hard thing for most people to smile at someone whose murder they are about to arrange. (Regardless of whether he shot her with the arrow, of course, it is still her murder.)
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Post by q3 on Sept 22, 2010 4:00:52 GMT
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Post by Max on Sept 22, 2010 5:50:03 GMT
I dunno, the way Mallt and Dhoo were talking made it seem like the one who guides the spirit is more symbolic than anything else. Or maybe it's Parley's. My only evidence for this is the very literal holding of handsMan I can't wait for midnight
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Post by Mylian on Sept 22, 2010 6:01:29 GMT
"Here's the mail it never fails it makes me wanna wag my tail, when it comes I wanna wail MAAAAAAAAIL!!!!"
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