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Post by jayne on Sept 14, 2010 0:29:22 GMT
When I was in school my friends and I found a moth during breaktime and proceeded to torture it to death. It was a giant one. The kind that hangs out on a tree waiting for nightfall. There was a girl we hated. She was crying pleading us to stop. You're just lucky she wasn't a cute telekinetic butcher. On the one hand, it would be cool, but on the other then you couldn't tell about it, so what's the point? If it's any consolation, you hardly could do to a common insect much that would truly upset it. Some may continue to drink nectar almost indefinitely, not noticing that it spills because half of the abdomen is sliced off. That was my first thought as well. However silly and fossilized this meme is, it fits here perfectly. So far there are only two existing candidates: a blinker (i still say Jeanne once owned Annie's and that's why she's able to use it) and Parley's ether-glowing amulet. I think Annie is seeing this. Parley is connecting to Jeanne through Annie. It doesn't looks like this - after all, Jeanne touched Parley. But on the other hand (sorry), she currently handles that blinker - her right hand dropped the sword, but the left is closed. Which is another possible way Annie can participate... whether this was Jeanne's intention or not. Ah but Parley is only there because she touched Annie. Annie is the conduit between Jeanne and Parley. Parley has the ability to 'see' Jeanne's past but Annie is part of the circuit. Without Parley there, Annie wouldn't ...receive the signal? Since all three are connected, I"m sure all three are experiencing this. (We'll see soon enough I guess!)
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Post by Hyru Wachai on Sept 14, 2010 0:33:50 GMT
Was I the only person who thought his nose was a really creepy grin at first?
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Post by chibicarrera on Sept 14, 2010 2:35:14 GMT
I have to say, I love seeing Jeanne smile. She's beautiful.
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Post by farstrider on Sept 14, 2010 3:43:08 GMT
Y'know i was actually a little surprised to find that Jeanne's lover was from the forest; mainly because Diego described him as a "traitor"... frankly i figured he was originally a member of the court who was exiled to the forest over something he did. Though i guess it could be the case that he was originally a member of the court but chose to go join the forest and became some green guy; many in the court might think of that as treason, much how Yesengrin sees those who leave the forest to join the court... Jeanne however did not follow his lead for one reason or another, but still took the time to see him. Yes, Diego said he was a traitor, and to him someone willing to give up technology would have to be the biggest betrayal. . . the test that Ysengrin put in place for humans who wanted to stay in the forest is that they had to give up their bodies (die). . .maybe Jeanne was afraid to die? She did say that she was afraid of what would happen to her by the Annan Waters. . .
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Post by djublonskopf on Sept 14, 2010 5:00:59 GMT
Y'know i was actually a little surprised to find that Jeanne's lover was from the forest; mainly because Diego described him as a "traitor"... frankly i figured he was originally a member of the court who was exiled to the forest over something he did. From the looks of this page, before the division, the Court was the forest, and the forest the court. You have a horse and an elf and some dudes and a bear and like some goblins or something . . . . . . my guess is that after the split, everyone who picked the "forest" side of the split may have looked like a "traitor" to those who chose the "court" side . . . because they had all originally been part of one inclusive "Court". (And likewise, some of the the forest folk may have seen everyone who picked the "court" side as traitors)
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Post by fjodor on Sept 14, 2010 7:03:52 GMT
Maybe the green man took the Court's side after the division and was therefore called traitor. Not a very solid theory I know. The drawing of Jeanne in the top right section is unbelievably good; that smile can make anyone fall in love with her.
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kinnu
New Member
Posts: 16
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Post by kinnu on Sept 14, 2010 7:24:21 GMT
This is probably totally wrong, but:
What if that necklace that keeps being hidden is a symbol of Coyote? The comic djublonskopf linked said the split was caused by Coyote. If anyone was going to be a traitor (as Diego mentions) wouldn't it be Coyote?
e___e 3 AM THEORIES GOING TO BE PROVED TOTALLY WRONG TOMORROW.
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blastdragon
Junior Member
The Flying Dutchman
Posts: 65
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Post by blastdragon on Sept 14, 2010 10:12:23 GMT
Ah but Parley is only there because she touched Annie. Annie is the conduit between Jeanne and Parley. Parley has the ability to 'see' Jeanne's past but Annie is part of the circuit. Without Parley there, Annie wouldn't ...receive the signal? Since all three are connected, I"m sure all three are experiencing this. (We'll see soon enough I guess!) And Tom confirmed this on Formspring. Annie is also seeing this. www.formspring.me/gunnerkrigg/q/1121725555
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Post by evantha on Sept 14, 2010 13:56:01 GMT
Y'know i was actually a little surprised to find that Jeanne's lover was from the forest; mainly because Diego described him as a "traitor"... frankly i figured he was originally a member of the court who was exiled to the forest over something he did. Though i guess it could be the case that he was originally a member of the court but chose to go join the forest and became some green guy; many in the court might think of that as treason, much how Yesengrin sees those who leave the forest to join the court... Jeanne however did not follow his lead for one reason or another, but still took the time to see him. Yes, Diego said he was a traitor, and to him someone willing to give up technology would have to be the biggest betrayal. . . the test that Ysengrin put in place for humans who wanted to stay in the forest is that they had to give up their bodies (die). . .maybe Jeanne was afraid to die? She did say that she was afraid of what would happen to her by the Annan Waters. . . Hello, I've been reading the GC and the forums since like a year now.. but it's the first time I write. Anyway, I dont think Jeanne would be afraid of taking the test to go to "the forest side" but it's important to remember that what we're watching right now is before a forest side existed, what I think is that Diego somehow prevent her from staying in the forest side when the division was done.
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Post by jayne on Sept 14, 2010 14:23:12 GMT
Yes, Diego said he was a traitor, and to him someone willing to give up technology would have to be the biggest betrayal. . . the test that Ysengrin put in place for humans who wanted to stay in the forest is that they had to give up their bodies (die). . .maybe Jeanne was afraid to die? She did say that she was afraid of what would happen to her by the Annan Waters. . . Hello, I've been reading the GC and the forums since like a year now.. but it's the first time I write. Anyway, I don't think Jeanne would be afraid of taking the test to go to "the forest side" but it's important to remember that what we're watching right now is before a forest side existed, what I think is that Diego somehow prevent her from staying in the forest side when the division was done. Welcome aboard! That IS the issue I'm waiting to hear about.... why would Jeanne be separated from Greenguy? Is it like the Berlin wall and they just happened to be on different sides when it was created with no way across? The bridge didn't exist until after Jeanne died. If there was a test that Jeanne could take, maybe she didn't know about it, or maybe she didn't want to give up her body... or maybe the test hadn't been created yet.
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Post by atteSmythe on Sept 14, 2010 14:47:38 GMT
Heck, Annie even tried to tell Jones about Jeanne, but Jones didn't want to hear it. You may want to refresh your memory a bit. Annie was the one vacillating about telling people. Jones merely recommended she wait until she has more complete data rather than try to explain something she didn't understand. So, Annie tried to tell her, and Jones cut her off, you're saying? I'm actually a bit annoyed with the whole situation with Jones, and I imagine Annie is too. The timeline goes basically like this: Annie learns about the existence of Jeanne, tries to probe Jones for more information. Jones wants to know why she's curious. Annie stumbles to find an explanation, because she doesn't really know much. Jones shuts her down and, in not so many words, suggests she find out more before bothering her with it. Annie learns something's wrong with Jack. Not knowing the whole story, Annie decides "such information is useless until properly investigated," and decides to handle the situation on her own. Unable to, Jones has to come in to save the day, and Annie gets about a million detentions. It's the same lesson that added her annoyance with Eglamore: Take matters into your own hands, but don't get caught taking matters into your own hands.
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Post by jayne on Sept 14, 2010 15:16:15 GMT
Annie trusts Coyote and Reynard, two known tricksters... she trusts Jones, who has no real allegiance to either court or forest. But she doesn't seem to trust Eglamoure any more than she trusts Ysengrin (which is not much) Annie seems pretty cautious with her trust. She was willing to ask Jones about Jeanne but wasn't too quick about giving information. When it came down to it, she was willing to tell Jones, but Jones wanted her to wait until Annie was ready to tell. That being said, I predict Annie, Parley, Kat and Smitty will run to find Jones... if they all survive this encounter, that is... (Edit: it seems as if Attesmythe and I were writing this at the same time~ )
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Post by q3 on Sept 14, 2010 16:09:50 GMT
So, Annie tried to tell her, and Jones cut her off, you're saying? It seems more like Annie was uncomfortable talking to Jones about it, and was going to give a lame excuse to try to end the conversation ("it's really nothing"). Jones instead decided to spare Annie an embarrassing moment, just as she has done on other occasions. There was no reason for Jones to think that it was dangerous for Annie to investigate the Court's history on her own, because Jones does not know that there is a killer ghost in the ravine. Whereas with Jack, Jones did know that there was a dangerous entity within the Court, not merely "information" that could be properly investigated on one's own. So perhaps Jones' lesson is actually "investigate the past all you like, but get some help before confronting malevolent entities."
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Post by atteSmythe on Sept 14, 2010 16:40:20 GMT
It seems more like Annie was uncomfortable talking to Jones about it, and was going to give a lame excuse to try to end the conversation ("it's really nothing"). Jones instead decided to spare Annie an embarrassing moment, just as she has done on other occasions. There was no reason for Jones to think that it was dangerous for Annie to investigate the Court's history on her own, because Jones does not know that there is a killer ghost in the ravine. Nah, I don't buy it. What reason does Annie have to be uncomfortable about it? There's nothing embarrassing there, except that she's maybe doing some poking around when she shouldn't. Jones notably didn't stop Annie from embarrassing herself regarding her spar with Eglamore. The last wasn't saving her embarrassment, it was saving her expulsion. Indeed, Jones is perfectly willing to cause Annie embarrassment. In that same plot you linked, Jones doesn't pull her punches regarding Randy. I would go so far as to say that disregarding others' discomfort (social or otherwise) is one of Jones' defining characteristics ( more, more, more, more, you get the idea). And while Jones may not know the specifics of a malevolent ghost in the ravine, it is her opinion that the early history of the court was deliberately obscured. Poking around in the dirty laundry of the direct forebears of the current establishment is certainly not without its risks. Especially for someone who has had very little introduction to the current political landscape. Doubly so after just having refused to hear what little Annie does know. Because Annie knew more than she realized at the time. Jones was in a much better position than she to connect the dots. Anyway, just my take. And I do understand Annie's hesitation to share too much, since there are clear allegiances, but not yet clear agendas. I just feel that Jones is being frustratingly inconsistent with her lessons right now...and that frustration is amplified somewhat due to her otherwise seeming to be the best person to act as a confidant - analytical and as close to neutral as anyone we've met. Ah, shoot, and I didn't see - welcome to the forums. I hope I don't seem argumentative, I'm just enjoying this plot line immensely, and this is turning out to be a neat conversation.
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Post by Elaienar on Sept 14, 2010 16:55:19 GMT
That IS the issue I'm waiting to hear about.... why would Jeanne be separated from Greenguy? Is it like the Berlin wall and they just happened to be on different sides when it was created with no way across? The bridge didn't exist until after Jeanne died. I don't know, what Coyote said here seems to imply that the forest people were able to get across before the Court did ... whatever it was they did with that wonky arrow and Jeanne and the river. Maybe they just couldn't get together often? Or maybe they wanted to wait until everyone had cooled down a bit so that they wouldn't get in trouble for fraternizing with the enemy. =/
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Post by jayne on Sept 14, 2010 17:16:08 GMT
That IS the issue I'm waiting to hear about.... why would Jeanne be separated from Greenguy? Is it like the Berlin wall and they just happened to be on different sides when it was created with no way across? The bridge didn't exist until after Jeanne died. I don't know, what Coyote said here seems to imply that the forest people were able to get across before the Court did ... whatever it was they did with that wonky arrow and Jeanne and the river. Maybe they just couldn't get together often? Or maybe they wanted to wait until everyone had cooled down a bit so that they wouldn't get in trouble for fraternizing with the enemy. =/ I think you're right... before Jeanne died, the river would have just been a difficult river for humans to cross but easier for forest creatures. The fairies and shadow 2 could get to the bottom of the ravine without much trouble. Without the spell, Shadow could have just stretched across the river... if he can stretch that far. Just getting a human to the bottom of the ravine requires a rope and tackle but then even if they could cross the river, how would they get out of the ravine on the other side. Its a sheer cliff, a river, and another sheer cliff.
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Post by q3 on Sept 14, 2010 17:28:12 GMT
Ah, shoot, and I didn't see - welcome to the forums. I hope I don't seem argumentative, I'm just enjoying this plot line immensely, and this is turning out to be a neat conversation. Thanks, no worries. I've always interpreted that page as showing Annie being unwilling to discuss the matter with Jones, but I can now see how Jones could have been the unwilling one. And while Jones may not know the specifics of a malevolent ghost in the ravine, it is her opinion that the early history of the court was deliberately obscured. Poking around in the dirty laundry of the direct forebears of the current establishment is certainly not without its risks. Especially for someone who has had very little introduction to the current political landscape. Doubly so after just having refused to hear what little Annie does know. Perhaps Jones thinks (knows?) that there isn't much real danger, at least from the current Court. They seem content to let students snoop around, for the most part. Jones was also content to let Annie handle Jack by herself, possibly because she felt she had the situation under control. She could be keeping an eye on Annie's movements with regard to Jeanne, and even now is wondering why everyone has gathered at the front gate and whether she needs to step in. Alternatively, perhaps Jones' educational philosophy is "high risk, high reward." She doesn't expect everyone to survive her training, but those that do will be prepared for just about anything.
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Post by tyler on Sept 14, 2010 18:56:02 GMT
I wonder if Diego's a Sagittarius? Also: "How's the Peepin' Tommy?"
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Fen
Junior Member
Posts: 85
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Post by Fen on Sept 14, 2010 19:48:28 GMT
How old is everyone here, and how fast did the court grow, considering that Diego was present at its founding apparently as an adult?
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Post by TBeholder on Sept 15, 2010 0:01:44 GMT
Oh hey, it's that guy. Since the one at the earlier scene has longer hair and ears and different face lines in general, i would say it's not him. Just another elf. Moreover, Jeanne's green lad looks more human-like; together with sharp-eared ex-fairy students this suggests that he's an ex-human. Though i guess it could be the case that he was originally a member of the court but chose to go join the forest and became some green guy; many in the court might think of that as treason, much how Yesengrin sees those who leave the forest to join the court... Yeah. As jayne pointed out in the deceased thread, here's a direct analogy. Ah but Parley is only there because she touched Annie. Annie is the conduit between Jeanne and Parley. But may or may not be needed for Parley's continued presence. Depending on how corporeal this presence is, too. Parley has the ability to 'see' Jeanne's past but Annie is part of the circuit. Without Parley there, Annie wouldn't ...receive the signal? Since all three are connected, I"m sure all three are experiencing this. Either way, Jeanne "talks" to Parley, seemingly directly. (We'll see soon enough I guess!) That's not the point. The point of wild guessing is the wild guessing. And occasionally guessing right, but i wouldn't invest any hope in that - it's Gunnerkrigg, after all. There was no reason for Jones to think that it was dangerous for Annie to investigate the Court's history on her own, because Jones does not know that there is a killer ghost in the ravine. Or just assumed that an up-and-running medium is the one most able to deal with ghosts anyway. Annie did confirm this once, after all.
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Post by jayne on Sept 15, 2010 0:44:17 GMT
The point of wild guessing is the wild guessing. And occasionally guessing right, but I wouldn't invest any hope in that - it's Gunnerkrigg, after all Yeah, every time I think I know where something is going... 'Wait, what?? We're going over here now?? I thought... not over there?? Okay..."
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Post by arucard on Sept 15, 2010 1:03:30 GMT
This is probably totally wrong, but: What if that necklace that keeps being hidden is a symbol of Coyote? The comic djublonskopf linked said the split was caused by Coyote. If anyone was going to be a traitor (as Diego mentions) wouldn't it be Coyote? e___e 3 AM THEORIES GOING TO BE PROVED TOTALLY WRONG TOMORROW. Crap man, and I just created an account here to say exactly that! I also think that it's a plausible possibility... The Court was founded apparently on good terms with the Forest... And some time later Coyote caused the division between both... Maybe people considered him a traitor for that? For disturbing the balance? And I sonehow can't believe that this Elf dude was a Court member who decided to go to the Forest, therefore taking the 'test' and changing his body... I mean... Court and Forest were not separated yet, why would they need the whole 'test' thing if they could just walk between them?
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Post by reptar on Sept 15, 2010 2:12:00 GMT
Oh hey, it's that guy. Since the one at the earlier scene has longer hair and ears and different face lines in general, i would say it's not him. Just another elf. Moreover, Jeanne's green lad looks more human-like; together with sharp-eared I thought that, too. But then I also remembered that Jones said that the simulation was a artist's rendering of the events and appearances change with artists. Notice the fanart page for example, the style of the characters changes with each person drawing it in their own style. And so I am inclined to believe that the same has happened here and it is the same person.
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monte
Junior Member
Posts: 66
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Post by monte on Sept 15, 2010 3:01:36 GMT
Hello, I've been reading the GC and the forums since like a year now.. but it's the first time I write. Anyway, I don't think Jeanne would be afraid of taking the test to go to "the forest side" but it's important to remember that what we're watching right now is before a forest side existed, what I think is that Diego somehow prevent her from staying in the forest side when the division was done. If there was a test that Jeanne could take, maybe she didn't know about it, or maybe she didn't want to give up her body... or maybe the test hadn't been created yet. It could also be the case that she still had some attachments to the court such as friends and family... Think of it like dating a someone for some time but finding out they have to move across the country. Not everyone finds it easy to just follow them since it means leaving everything else behind.
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Post by Casey on Sept 15, 2010 6:26:29 GMT
Couple of things:
1) Green Elf Guy is not the same guy as pictured in the holosim, because Tom said so (on Formspring, thought I'm unmotivated to find the link)
2) The above is certainty but what follows is just my understanding: I believe "the Test(s)" did not come until later, after the Annan Waters had been made and after Jeanne was put down there.
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Post by evantha on Sept 15, 2010 15:00:13 GMT
If there was a test that Jeanne could take, maybe she didn't know about it, or maybe she didn't want to give up her body... or maybe the test hadn't been created yet. It could also be the case that she still had some attachments to the court such as friends and family... Think of it like dating a someone for some time but finding out they have to move across the country. Not everyone finds it easy to just follow them since it means leaving everything else behind. What you say is also true and it's a very valid reason why She might have chosen to stay in the court and not in the forest.
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