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Post by theweatherman on Aug 21, 2010 11:43:30 GMT
True, but that's her opinion, and I'd imagine that her opinion of herself isn't too great (father abandoned her, she mentioned she felt she might have disappointed him, in other words it was her fault, but I highly doubt that) depressed or troubled children often look at themselves in a negative light and blame themselves for things that couldn't have possibly been their fault (I should know, I do it alot), and it's plain to see Annie is troubled, no matter how calm and collected she seems.
Kat herself said that anyone in her situation would have likely reacted the same way.
And again, I think that Jeanne is the "coward heart" in this chapter.
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Post by legion on Aug 21, 2010 11:44:05 GMT
Her comment was about being "a fool", as in, the problem was not that she was scared, but that she didn't think fast enough.
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Post by theweatherman on Aug 21, 2010 11:47:48 GMT
Ooh.
Hard to think when you're distracted by a sword-wielding ghost lady who just sliced your face though.
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Post by Alexandragon on Aug 21, 2010 12:09:45 GMT
Annie looked upon her act as cowardice at the end of Chapter Sixteen. Maybe "coward heart" means that Annie must defeat her fear or it means something important about the story of Renard? It is necessary to notice, that Renard has stolen the body on other side of the bridge... Probably Jeanne specially has let him pass in, because she sympathized to him(he has loved the one who lived on other side of the river, as she had long time ago) or by another reason? P.S.: If I do some grammatical mistakes, excuse me, please.
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Post by Alexandragon on Aug 21, 2010 12:15:08 GMT
True, but that's her opinion, and I'd imagine that her opinion of herself isn't too great (father abandoned her, she mentioned she felt she might have disappointed him, in other words it was her fault, but I highly doubt that) depressed or troubled children often look at themselves in a negative light and blame themselves for things that couldn't have possibly been their fault (I should know, I do it alot), and it's plain to see Annie is troubled, no matter how calm and collected she seems. Kat herself said that anyone in her situation would have likely reacted the same way. And again, I think that Jeanne is the "coward heart" in this chapter. I think so too. Probably she considers herself of mother responsible for early death?
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Post by theweatherman on Aug 21, 2010 12:18:40 GMT
Hmm... I doubt we will be learning more about Renard in this chapter, but that does make sense.
Does Jeanne even bother with the bridge? or just the Annan Waters? The bridge is very well light up, so it's hard to not see someone come across it, perhaps the forest and court themselves guard it.
I'm also not sure about the part with Renard taking the man's body on the other side of the bridge, to me it looks like it's not relevant, maybe just a drawing mistake. I could be completely and totally wrong (wouldn't be the first time...) though.
...oh god, something just occured.
Is Jeanne in love with Ysengrin? Maybe HE changed into a animal from a human for some reason?
It almost kinda maybe does a lil makes sense.
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Post by Alexandragon on Aug 21, 2010 12:22:50 GMT
Is Jeanne in love with Ysengrin? Maybe HE changed into a animal from a human for some reason? It almost kinda maybe does a lil makes sense. I don't think so. When Coyote has found them Ysengrin already was old, also he was a wolf at that time too.
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Post by Alexandragon on Aug 21, 2010 12:27:25 GMT
On the other hand, it was almost right after creation GC... And it was time of living of Diego and others first creators.
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Post by theweatherman on Aug 21, 2010 14:35:41 GMT
Ok, but maybe she fell in love with him while he was a wolf, he's angry with humans cos humans killed Jeanne for selfish reasons.
Remember he's not just a wolf, he's more of a wolf spirit thing.
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Post by Alexandragon on Aug 21, 2010 15:34:20 GMT
Ok, but maybe she fell in love with him while he was a wolf, he's angry with humans cos humans killed Jeanne for selfish reasons. Remember he's not just a wolf, he's more of a wolf spirit thing. Hmm... Also like Reynard are. By this way my theory of Jeanne's sympathy to Reynard have chance to living. But why she attacks Annie? Maybe Jeanne thinks that Annie was Surma, that has betrayed Reynard, in her opinion? P.S.: Even Coyote hasn't understood at once, that Annie is not Surma.
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Post by theweatherman on Aug 21, 2010 16:19:06 GMT
Well we don't know if Jeanne ever met Surma, and if so it was as a ghost, we don't know how well she can form new memories as she is a ghost guardian of the lake, emotions do get in the way, so they could have been removed. but if she does remember Rey, it's possible that she did mistake Annie for Surma, or knew that Annie wasn't Surma but still attacked out of spite. ...I honestly think Ysengrin and Jeanne loved eachother now
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Post by Alexandragon on Aug 21, 2010 17:04:48 GMT
Well we don't know if Jeanne ever met Surma, and if so it was as a ghost, we don't know how well she can form new memories as she is a ghost guardian of the lake, emotions do get in the way, so they could have been removed. Agree, but I also think that even the Court could not erase emotions and some strong memories completely. And don't forgot about how Mort was "delighted" in [534] and others Also Jeanne could be into some kind of slavery, but she also could been resisting to curse by her personality. And to keep a part of the person: look narrowly at a cover of the new chapter - there she not faceless(On her face emotions are also visible, and her face are far not happy and joyful), as Mort.
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Post by theweatherman on Aug 21, 2010 17:57:49 GMT
Hmm... true, I was a bit too quick with "emotionless". But remember that Mort died naturally (as in plain ol' died, no weird curses or magic arrow-things) so maybe he keeps his emotions while Jeanne can only feel sadness or something. I dunno
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Post by Alexandragon on Aug 21, 2010 18:26:42 GMT
But remember that Mort died naturally (as in plain ol' died, no weird curses or magic arrow-things) so maybe he keeps his emotions while Jeanne can only feel sadness or something. Probably she feels only last emotions and feelings in her life? For example: the fear, despair, love to the stranger (for us) etc.? And she is "living" by the shade of the former life, like into real dream or nightmare in which is impossible to wake up? Brrr...
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Post by Alexandragon on Aug 21, 2010 18:39:07 GMT
And also remember [288], there is ms. Jones has told, that "Ysengrin is drawing closer to the brink of insanity...". May be it means that it was not the first thing like that what has done by Ysengrin to himself and others into forest from time of separation? www.gunnerkrigg.com/archive_page.php?comicID=288
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Post by theweatherman on Aug 21, 2010 20:57:36 GMT
Firstly, could you modify your posts instead of just posting more? Some forums really hate double-posting.
Thats a credible theory, Jeanne could be living her own personal hell over and over, no wonder she's quick to attack...
Hmm.. well remember, we don't know how old the court is, Jeanne could be a century old, or several, which would mean Ysengrin would have hundreds of years with Coyote (and that would drive anyone insane, not including the sheer dedication and crap that Coyote puts him through), including hundreds of years knowing that Jeanne is suffering and he can't do a thing.
The guilt and constant restraint for years and years and years would easily break anyone, it's not a supprise that he's going insane.
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Post by Goatmon on Aug 21, 2010 21:05:04 GMT
Yay, closure!
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Post by King Mir on Aug 21, 2010 23:47:10 GMT
True, but that's her opinion, and I'd imagine that her opinion of herself isn't too great (father abandoned her, she mentioned she felt she might have disappointed him, in other words it was her fault, but I highly doubt that) depressed or troubled children often look at themselves in a negative light and blame themselves for things that couldn't have possibly been their fault (I should know, I do it alot), and it's plain to see Annie is troubled, no matter how calm and collected she seems. Kat herself said that anyone in her situation would have likely reacted the same way. Whether Annie is justified in thinking herself a coward, doesn't change that she does. It could make sense to refer to Annie's cowardice in this chapter title if Annie changes her perception of her own cowardice here. More like going deeper into the rabbit hole I expect.
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Post by Alexandragon on Aug 22, 2010 11:36:41 GMT
Firstly, could you modify your posts instead of just posting more? Some forums really hate double-posting. Thats a credible theory, Jeanne could be living her own personal hell over and over, no wonder she's quick to attack... Hmm.. well remember, we don't know how old the court is, Jeanne could be a century old, or several, which would mean Ysengrin would have hundreds of years with Coyote (and that would drive anyone insane, not including the sheer dedication and crap that Coyote puts him through), including hundreds of years knowing that Jeanne is suffering and he can't do a thing. The guilt and constant restraint for years and years and years would easily break anyone, it's not a supprise that he's going insane. Sorry, just for me it's habitual, that, at my language zone of Internet, multi-posts are automatically unites in one post I completely agree. Also everybody will been finished by feeling of fault and Coyote's jokes. Besides Coyote said, that "Ysengrin strongly loves me". Quite probably, that this phrase has double sense in this light... P.S.: I think, maybe just for now, this theme cold be closed. Also, till that time when we will have a new information.
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Post by Mezzaphor on Aug 22, 2010 17:48:20 GMT
P.S.: I think, maybe just for now, this theme cold be closed. Also, till that time when we will have a new information. Standard procedure here is that threads stay open indefinitely; people will just naturally stop posting in them once there's nothing more to say on the topic. Generally, threads only get locked if an argument gets too nasty.
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Post by theweatherman on Aug 22, 2010 22:47:57 GMT
Well whatever happens, I hope Coyote is somewhere in there.
And I hope Kat comes along for the ride with her new attitude.
...and Mort...
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Post by Alexandragon on Aug 23, 2010 1:39:47 GMT
P.S.: I think, maybe just for now, this theme cold be closed. Also, till that time when we will have a new information. Standard procedure here is that threads stay open indefinitely; people will just naturally stop posting in them once there's nothing more to say on the topic. Generally, threads only get locked if an argument gets too nasty. I think it's great, just still I mean that there are no more data to discuss. New arguments, not nasty):Also, I think that Jeanne was powerful medium such as Annie... My arguments: 1) in [656] Diego said that "the plan will work with no one else". 2) also Jeanne don't like living into "prison of stone and glass", and remember moments of story, then Antimony uses Blinker stone to See in city and in Forest([514], also at [680] - just look at tree) - the obvious difference is appreciable, besides Coyote told Annie, that she looks very unlifeless([680]), and how looks Anja([512], in the difference from Annie also seen in her length of hair, it's very symbolical, I think) during using of Stone - she has been not strongly differs from walls... Well whatever happens, I hope Coyote is somewhere in there. I think, Coyote always "is" there, by his status.
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Post by warrl on Aug 23, 2010 7:48:59 GMT
But remember that Mort died naturally (as in plain ol' died, no weird curses or magic arrow-things) so maybe he keeps his emotions while Jeanne can only feel sadness or something. Actually we know nothing about how or where Mort lived or died. There is a slight hint in the form of the coffin-like inset in the wall, but all we really know about that is that it's in the same area that Mort is usually found. That area also contains a few doors, some furniture, etc. that we know precisely as much about.
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Post by cannedbreadmaker on Aug 23, 2010 20:05:10 GMT
The title of the chapter is probably referring to something that someone will do in the chapter, not something that someone has already done.
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Post by snowbody on Sept 9, 2010 13:45:58 GMT
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Post by reptar on Sept 10, 2010 5:52:57 GMT
Okay, I had a thought about Jeanne and I figured that this would be the best place to put it.
I've been going through the Ultimate List and reading the past comic threads. The ones I was most interested in were the ones from Chapter 25 where we find out about the guarding of the Annan Waters.
As I read them I had a thought, it seems that in order for the spirits to move on they have to understand why they died. Annie had to pretty much explain why Martin died to him and what he did to cause the events that happened.
My thought was that Jeanne does not understand why she died and is thus stuck and why the psychopomps can't reach her.
Just something that occurred to me.
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