[656] It must be her.

[Casey]

Feelin' your pain, buddy, I just finished myself.

[CGAdam]

Dec 14, 2009 8:28:50 GMT eightyfour said:

Dec 14, 2009 8:25:31 GMT CGAdam said:

Wonder if someone else built the shrine.

The original robots built it.

Supposition or stated in comic? I don't recall that.

[Casey]

Supposition.

Here's another supposition: The man leaving the room, the one who abhors their plan, the one who is likely the "traitor" that Diego spoke of and therefore also Jeanne's love...

That's Antimony's great-great-grandfather.

[TBeholder]

Dec 14, 2009 8:21:58 GMT yazzydream said:

Either way, I won't believe anything Diego says anymore. I don't like that horrible little man at all.

Dec 14, 2009 11:40:45 GMT Yin said:

Hell hath no fury like a man scorned, eh.

"Hell hath no dread like a toy-maker scorned", however. Which makes some (creepy) sort of sense.

Dec 14, 2009 9:33:02 GMT thor said:

I think the most logical and responsible thing that Kat and Antimony can do now is to report this to a grown-up.

While most sensible (though having utterly unpredictable consequences) thing is to quietly talk it over with Jones. Ah, those never coincide...
But really - i don't see why they would do it - so that they would catch and hang Diego? Well, it's a bit too late for this. That is, assuming that ones at the positions of some responsibility like Mr. Llanwellyn and Mr. Eglamore don't know this little secret already, from their predecessors.

Dec 14, 2009 11:35:23 GMT chiparoo said:

But Diego being the cause of Jeanne's death is far more confusing. It just doesn't make sense

Hmmm, let's see. Assuming toy gifts aren't only ones, robots had to protect her and obey Diego's will, so when one contradicted another they "did nothing". And of course now they feel "ultra-bummed"(c). At last, it began to make some sense.
Even if they all were built after the event, they still have to deal at least with the conflict between what they were instructed feel to Jeanne and what they're supposed to feel to Diego. Which is bound to be bewildering. But "we did nothing" implies there was someone who could do something.

Dec 14, 2009 11:35:23 GMT chiparoo said:

we're obviously missing a piece of this puzzle, here.

When we didn't? I mean, isn't drawing "plain" basic plot on the surface of impenetrable maze of twists and mystery the main charm of GKC? ;D

Dec 14, 2009 11:35:23 GMT chiparoo said:

This is a very good point!
Annie has been asked to help the Psychopomps with retrieving the soul of Jeanne from the river. If she succeeds, and Jeanne really IS what makes the Annan waters Impassable, then holeh crap.
This is a significant thing.

...and it's her "metaphysical duty" to fix this. He-he.

Dec 14, 2009 14:13:26 GMT optern said:

I am trying to factor in how this works with the scripted fight. Sir Young's representation in Coyote's retelling is very similar to the robot we suspect represented him, so trying to factor that in is odd for me.

I suspect that if the scripted scene was done by Diego as well, he shifted most of the blame from himself to the more immediate participants. Though this doesn't fit well either, and IMHO we'll going to hit at least two more twists on this line anyway.

[the bandit]

I should remember not to overly complicate my intuition, after the last chapter.

Anyway, a person can murder someone by doing nothing intentionally, so don't get salmonella from half-baked "got it right" cookies. Let's cook them thoroughly, first.

EDIT: Oh, and I meant to point out how little we know of their scheme. There's a lot going on here that we have zero clues for.

[Snes]

Oh darn. Didn't see that coming.

I think shadowy guy from panel 1 is just some Court member who doesn't want to soil his hands with someone's death. No one significant.

[Casey]

Dec 14, 2009 15:23:59 GMT the bandit said:

I meant to point out how little we know of their scheme. There's a lot going on here that we have zero clues for.

On the other hand, there are things we do know now that we only speculated on before.

The biggest one being that their plan from the outset was to "do something" to the Annan Waters to "protect the court". There was question before on whether the Annan was the original target of their plan or whether that was an unintended effect. Related to this, there was mild speculation (mine) that perhaps their intentions were magnanimous and something went wrong... that's definitely no longer the case.

Oh and the other huge revelation is that, somehow, Beethoven was at the Court in its founding days...

[gaia]

Diego, you jerk.

Was it ever explicitly stated that Diego was the one who programmed in the SDAWDN? If it was... 'she died and we did nothing' is some pretty epic blameshifting - you cowards! Why didn't you prevent me from cold-bloodedly murdering her?

I don't think there's any fakeout or revelation that could stop Diego from being a complete doucheboat.

I think that the closing is achieved by the sacrifice itself: killing someone and dooming her to roam the ravine forever. While she is there, the passage is closed not by her attacking anyone with an ethereal sword, but just by her being there. So binding Jeanne's soul there is quite intentional.

Diego: It must be Jeanne. She's the only one with a whacking great sword.
Young: *hides his whacking great sword*

Have we had anything close to confirmation that the "bull-bot" was a likeness of Sir Young?

That's Annie's interpretation of it.

Maybe the bullbot is actually Basil.

[Goatmon]

Yikes.

So much for sympathizing with Diego.

[Loki]

I knew that man could not be trusted D:

[Ulysses]

Oo, human sacrifice. No wonder this was "lost" from the Court archives.

So what's the plan here? The lower Jeanne into the ravine then shoot her, or put her on the edge and shoot her so she falls down? It's a whistling arrow right? So maybe it's just the sound that kills her and the others have to wear ear-muffs. So many questions!

[Rasselas]

Of all the things, Ulysses, you're wondering about the gruesome details. Hahaha

[trav3ler]

Dec 14, 2009 16:50:29 GMT @gaia said:

Diego, you jerk.

Was it ever explicitly stated that Diego was the one who programmed in the SDAWDN? If it was... 'she died and we did nothing' is some pretty epic blameshifting - you cowards! Why didn't you prevent me from cold-bloodedly murdering her?

I don't think there's any fakeout or revelation that could stop Diego from being a complete doucheboat.

The robots are sentient and feel emotion, so I'm assuming they came up with the guilt themselves. Diego said that he had "instructed them all to love [Jeanne] just as I do", so I'm assuming each robot would have sacrificed itself to save her in an instant... but to do so would be disobeying their master, the one who gave them life. I'm pretty sure it's a paradox where they would have lost either way - if they had interfered I'm sure they would have been punished severely (either by Diego himself or by the Court for ruining their plan), but when they didn't interfere, they have to deal with an eternity of guilt because of their programming...

God damn it, Diego, you bastard.

[menschenjaeger]

Dec 14, 2009 14:23:19 GMT Casey said:

The thing you're going to find is the greatest evidence that Bull-bot was to represent Sir Young is this page,

HAHAHA! I forgot about that page! I would say that's all the confirmation we need.

[wynne]

What this guy from the comments said:

That noise you heard was the entire readership losing every bit of sympathy they may have had for Diego. Crossing the moral event horizon he is, oh yes.

Yeah, I'm seconding that.

Though, as crysiana said earlier, Diego might not be as at fault as he seems here. Maybe Young brainwashed/tricked/intimidated Diego into "coming up" with this plan. Highly improbable, but not impossible.

I just want to know who the cool moral objector is, though I kinda really wish they'd done a bit more than just voice objections and not participate.

[Rasselas]

Hmmm, but why do the robots hate Young so?

[the bandit]

Because clearly Diego is so depraved in his dark unrequited lover's revenge that he forced his robots to loathe someone besides himself as the cause for Jeanne's death that he oh-so-carefully planned. It's all there in black and white.

[Chrome]

Maybe this isn't any sort of thing Diego did as far as the hating Young aspect. They know from Cambot's record that Young is the leader, and probably originator of this scheme. He's the main reason Diego willingly offers Jeanne up as the sacrifice in question, as he is Diego's leader.

So why wouldn't the blame go directly at Young? I'm beginning to think "She died and we did nothing" is entirely a robotic creation, and their memory carries that recollection. Quite likely they did nothing because they were in pieces, and because they were somehow powerless to help. It's possible Diego never really did anything to tell them otherwise. He wouldn't think of it unless he realized his robots still loved her. In which case "We did nothing" may still be something he indirectly caused.

I wouldn't be surprised if the robotic "debate" in their society is because the Court reprogrammed some, but not all of them, to forget what had ever happened. The Court doesn't likely know the full extent of the robot culture, or the robots' knowledge of what went down, so it did what it thought it was doing right, when in reality it's making the situation far worse.

[Casey]

I think it's more likely, and more simple, that Diego programmed the robots to love Jeanne, and then when Jeanne disappeared, Diego lied and said "Young killed her".

The rest is the robots' doing.

The nice thing about that, then, is that would explain their current consternation. Their programmed memory differs from what's on the tape.

[Casey]

Or even better... the robots asked where Jeanne was, and Diego, grief-stricken, turns on them and exclaims "She died... and YOU DID NOTHING!"

[Luxa]

Dec 14, 2009 22:01:34 GMT the bandit said:

Because clearly Diego is so depraved in his dark unrequited lover's revenge that he forced his robots to loathe someone besides himself as the cause for Jeanne's death that he oh-so-carefully planned. It's all there in black and white.

But why would Diego even care? If he is so concerned about the future, why wouldn't he just reprogram the robots to not love Jeanne?
If he doesn't do that because of guilt, why shift that to Sir Young? Honestly I don't quite get it, so is he between the "oh my god, what have I done" and "I'm completely innocent, all was the fault of that Young" states?

[Casey]

Dec 14, 2009 22:30:41 GMT Luxa said:

Dec 14, 2009 22:01:34 GMT the bandit said:

Because clearly Diego is so depraved in his dark unrequited lover's revenge that he forced his robots to loathe someone besides himself as the cause for Jeanne's death that he oh-so-carefully planned. It's all there in black and white.

But why would Diego even care? If he is so concerned about the future, why wouldn't he just reprogram the robots to not love Jeanne?
If he doesn't do that because of guilt, why shift that to Sir Young? Honestly I don't quite get it, so is he between the "oh my god, what have I done" and "I'm completely innocent, all was the fault of that Young" states?

One possibility that occurs to me is perhaps he goes into (or is already in, for that matter) a dissociative state, that a part of him really does think it's all Young's fault and completely blocks out his own involvement in it.

[cherubiel]

Maybe it doesn't mean that this is the cause of Jeannes death? The Beethoven guy does call her sacrifice, but what if that's not literally?
If Jeannes lover was one of the forest people, she could be used as bait maybe? They let it look like she's in danger (like she's about to get killed) to lure her lover out of the forest. And then shoot him with their weighty arrow (or use it in some other curious way).
That's why it must be Jeanne. And Diego is totally in for this, 'cause it'd mean his competition will get wasted.
And then poor Jeanne (who didn't really know about that big plan of the Court) is forced to see her lover die. Suicide follows, and since the newly erected force-field deflects etheric energies, she's caught down in the ravine.

Just a guess.

[todd]

Dec 14, 2009 11:35:23 GMT chiparoo said:

Dec 14, 2009 10:24:48 GMT Luxa said:

This of course would also mean that once she is removed the Court becomes more vulnerable to the forest.

This is a very good point!
Annie has been asked to help the Psychopomps with retrieving the soul of Jeanne from the river. If she succeeds, and Jeanne really IS what makes the Annan waters Impassable, then holeh crap.
This is a significant thing.

It might be endangering the Court, but I think that Annie should still help Jeanne - it really isn't right to leave her in that limbo state, no matter what.

Besides, she can always (as the most probable candidate for the Court's next medium) find a way of achieving genuine peace and understanding between the Court and the Wood so that the Court wouldn't need the barrier to protect itself. (And if the Court had tried making peace with the forest-folk, they wouldn't have seen a need to murder Jeanne.)

[Per]

On another tangent: Diego is tech-aligned -> Jeanne's arrow-induced (?) haunting is technological rather than ethereal in nature -> why the psychopomps can't bag her? Or does Diego's riverbarriercraft transcend the division, just as his robotcraft thwarted Kat?

[Casey]

Dec 14, 2009 23:08:35 GMT cherubiel said:

Maybe it doesn't mean that this is the cause of Jeannes death? The Beethoven guy does call her sacrifice, but what if that's not literally?
If Jeannes lover was one of the forest people, she could be used as bait maybe? They let it look like she's in danger (like she's about to get killed) to lure her lover out of the forest. And then shoot him with their weighty arrow (or use it in some other curious way).
That's why it must be Jeanne. And Diego is totally in for this, 'cause it'd mean his competition will get wasted.
And then poor Jeanne (who didn't really know about that big plan of the Court) is forced to see her lover die. Suicide follows, and since the newly erected force-field deflects etheric energies, she's caught down in the ravine.

Just a guess.

I like your theory. The only thing that I can see working against it is they seem to be specifically targeting doing something to the river itself, in today's comic. Well I guess we'll see what happens.

[wynne]

Except that unfortunately, we're not likely to see that for quite a while. It looks like this vision is ending.

[Sir Culatory]

Really good update. Everything seems to point towards Diago having gone all "if I can't have her" (or at least he is now willing to let her be sacrificed), and so she should have smashed him instead of all the little robots.

Although I wonder if Diago might have some ulterior motive, like the classic "put the love in danger and then be the one to save her". If so he should realize that never works.

Hmmm... perhaps the sacrifice is in order to attract someone - or something - from the forest side. A bit like with King Kong. (Ninja'd of course)

Dec 14, 2009 8:25:31 GMT CGAdam said:

Wonder if someone else built the shrine.

The original robots built it. Because they truely loved Jeanne (just the way the present robots do). Somehow Diego was able to teach his creations true feelings he never really had himself.

I wonder if that is why robot society is in such a state, they are torn between their love for Jeanne and loyalty for their creator who, judging from the recording, may have been involved in her death.

I know if I was a robot that would mess me up.

[chiparoo]

Dec 14, 2009 15:15:01 GMT TBeholder said:

Hmmm, let's see. Assuming toy gifts aren't only ones, robots had to protect her and obey Diego's will, so when one contradicted another they "did nothing". And of course now they feel "ultra-bummed"(c). At last, it began to make some sense.
Even if they all were built after the event, they still have to deal at least with the conflict between what they were instructed feel to Jeanne and what they're supposed to feel to Diego. Which is bound to be bewildering. But "we did nothing" implies there was someone who could do something.

Haha, I was referring to the fact that Diego seems to be behind Jeanne's death as making no sense at all. The robot's confusion over the matter makes perfect sense.
People have come up with some pretty good explanations as to how Diego might be pushing the use of Jeanne as a sacrifice and still blame someone else, but these are still only predictions.
In the context of the comic, Diego's actions are still confusing as crap.

Dec 14, 2009 15:15:01 GMT TBeholder said:

When we didn't? I mean, isn't drawing "plain" basic plot on the surface of impenetrable maze of twists and mystery the main charm of GKC? ;D

Haha, truer words are seldom spoken. I friggin adore this comic.

[optern]

I sort of expect Diego is not an antagonist, or at least not a willful one. I don't really think it fits the tone of this comic. I don't think anyone's a full-fledged "baddie". This comic is more morally complex than that.

---

Actually, I have a new theory (? New to me anyway) about "She Died and We Did Nothing." Technically, it doesn't say what they did nothing about. It's triggered by the mention of Jeanne, but it doesn't actually state that the second part of that triggered reply means "we did nothing in regards to her demise."

I think it's "She died [and in the process protected the Court from the woods] and [therefore] we did nothing [as the intended court warriors]." The issue isn't that Jeanne is dead, it's that the robots now have no real purpose. Judging by features such as the sword on the Seraph model, I assume the Court robots were constructed to wage a war. We also have also observed that "Those old war horses never shut up." Furthermore, the barber robot appears to be adapted from some other machine, as it's missing its nameplate and has some kind of lobotomy scar. Anyway, we have all these robots for apparently war... but no indication a war ever took place. The robots are now doing benign daily tasks, like monitoring the weather and drawing carriages.

They may blame Young for this, as it may have been his plan which resulted in the river being sealed, as opposed to a full-fledged war being waged. For this reason, most of the Court may have agreed to the scheme. It required a human sacrifice, but would spare many lives, both animal and human. Maybe Jeanne even agreed to do this; all we know is that she's needed. We don't know she was forced to do anything. (Though the Seraph model says "You will pay for what you did to her which does imply at least some degree of pressure.) Either way...

Jeanne died, and they did nothing.

(And they could still love her, despite this. There's no reason these two things can't occur simultaneously, given their pre-programming.)