Chrome
Full Member
The Shiny One
Posts: 232
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Post by Chrome on Dec 12, 2009 1:53:27 GMT
I have a theory to throw out here, which might explain why Young is depicted by the bull-bot, and why the robots said "She died and we did nothing."
Okay here goes.
Diego is basically very pro-Court, right? Right here, Young, and company are also all pretty much pro-Court, and against the forest. So the scheme probably has something to do with creating a "moat" of sorts, an impassable barrier so the forest can't get at them, and anyone who wants to betray them to the Forest can't get to to Gillite.
It makes sense, that if there was no bridge, and the divide between the two factions was that deep, that they would attempt to deepen it, because they would see no other benefit than protection of their agendas.
So the Court does something to the waters to prevent anything etheric from passing. That's probably the device we're looking at here. Steadman's a gifted archer, and all he has to do is to aim it at the waters, so it'll do what it's going to do to the waters.
Here's the thing: Jeanne clearly loves someone who has been a "traitor." In this case, that's someone who probably is either pro-forest, or at least pro-peace. That someone probably is heading for the woods. Now, if Jeanne got wind from Diego what they were going to do to the waters, she'd probably go to the guy and tell him to get a move on sooner, rather than later. And quite possibly she decides to go with him.
And now, with the bad timing with which the foundation of every truely great tragic story is laid, Jeanne ends up somehow getting caught out when this device ends up in the waters--and ends up killed. Diego apparently either didn't know, or didn't want to do anything, while the robots who all felt love for Jeanne felt they had to - but they couldn't. Probably because Diego might've been angry enough to order them not to. Or maybe he had a horrible brain-freeze, and just broke down when his decisions were needed. Any which way the result is the same: the robots don't do anything, and lament this till the present time.
At any rate, guess who's going to catch the blame from Diego when he finds out this killed Jeanne? Young. He's the leader of this entire scheme. Enter bullbot in the performance ring, while Diego probably regrets his part in the entire thing, and likely retired from servicing the Court with his technological wizardry. As a result, even the robots hate Young and his successors.
I've had this general scenario in my head ever since seeing this page. I don't know how close it is, and I would hope that Tom still throws us enough curveballs to keep me from feeling like Parley's dad here.
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soup
New Member
Posts: 1
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Post by soup on Dec 12, 2009 12:06:43 GMT
From this page: www.fix.net/~ggoven/whistle.html"In warfare, and at other times, messages (called Ya-bume by the Japanese) were wrapped round the shaft of these arrows, for their prime role was military signalling and message carrying. Another role in which this arrow was used was that of psychological warfare. The Japanese are said to have used massed archery formations to shoot hundreds of whistling-arrows against the enemy and this must have been very effective." It seems that these kind of arrows were never used for killing... the story of the origin also says that the man who invented these made them so that whoever was shot by a whistling arrow would obey the one who shot it.
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Post by Mishmash on Dec 12, 2009 12:31:54 GMT
That Steadman is one handsome lad! It is interesting to see these old guys as living people rather than just frozen with fixed serious expressions, as they were in the simulation. Makes you think about the fact they are all humans with emotions and thoughts, not just one-dimensional figures to be later represented as robots.
I am not going to join the speculation today because I really don't have a clue what that arrow is about, but I am excited to find out what we see next!
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Post by La Goon on Dec 12, 2009 12:57:50 GMT
I doubt that the device is meant to go in the Annan waters. In that case they wouldn’t have to put it on an arrow and have a skilled archer fire it. They could just dump it in. No, I’m pretty sure it’s meant for a specific target on the forest side.
Hmm, I wonder – is Steadman already at this time known as “the archer”, or is that a title he gets because of the upcoming event?
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Post by TBeholder on Dec 12, 2009 13:25:13 GMT
It has stood for months and months as the most likely explanation. Are you suddenly disowning it only now that it's been proved highly unlikely? Isn't it the same, as far as the Gunnerkrigg is concerned ? ;D The karimata is an arrow for hunting large game...I don't think this has anything to do with making the Annan Waters impassible. I think this is an assassination attempt on Coyote. Because there's not a single potential target in the whole forest save the Three Canines. I would also postulate that this arrow is the cause of Jeanne's death, either directly (hitting her somehow) or indirectly (The result of this "scheme" causing her so much grief that she commits suicide...?) Ok, maybe that's a bit of a stretch, but I still think it's a possibility. I doubt that the device is meant to go in the Annan waters. In that case they wouldn’t have to put it on an arrow and have a skilled archer fire it. They could just dump it in. No, I’m pretty sure it’s meant for a specific target on the forest side. This makes "Jeanne jumped in to shield the one she didn't want to discuss with Diego" version so obvious that i'm sure this isn't what's going to happen.
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Post by idonotlikepeas on Dec 12, 2009 16:20:25 GMT
And now, with the bad timing with which the foundation of every truely great tragic story is laid, Jeanne ends up somehow getting caught out when this device ends up in the waters--and ends up killed. Diego apparently either didn't know, or didn't want to do anything, while the robots who all felt love for Jeanne felt they had to - but they couldn't. Probably because Diego might've been angry enough to order them not to. Or maybe he had a horrible brain-freeze, and just broke down when his decisions were needed. Any which way the result is the same: the robots don't do anything, and lament this till the present time. Yeah, based on the recent strips this seems like quite a likely supposition. Maybe they see her run out to the river, but they can't do anything about it because going out there would get them killed too, or would mess up the scheme. (Thus "she died and we did nothing" because they witnessed it but were unable to act rather than unwilling.) Or some combination of those things.
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Alex
Full Member
Posts: 165
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Post by Alex on Dec 12, 2009 18:24:11 GMT
Wait, do we know that the Annan Waters aren't already impassable? Given as it's a signal arrow, maybe it's intended to send a message across the otherwise-impassable river to propose e.g. building a bridge.
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Post by Mr Pitchfork on Dec 12, 2009 18:28:19 GMT
Alex, our assumptions are fragile and shouldn't be stomped on.
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Post by trav3ler on Dec 13, 2009 0:28:11 GMT
Because there's not a single potential target in the whole forest save the Three Canines. So who else do you propose it to be? Shadow 2? ;D I'm just going to postulate further on the whole "assassin" theory: Assuming that the arrow is for assassination, and not some crazy way to make the waters impassible, there are a few targets possible, most likely of which is one of the Three Canines. There's a possibility the target could be one of the humans who went over to the Forest side when the official split happened, but I think that's less likely than an attempt on a canine, with one important exception (that I will get to in a minute). I'm almost certain it's not Rey. He would have some memory of this if he were the target, and he does not (he's hiding some things from Annie, but not anything regarding this - he's just as curious as they are, and he doesn't know who Jeanne is). So the two most likely people to be on the recieving end of the crazy anti-etheric arrow Diego's cooked up are Coyote and Ysengrim. There are legit reasons for why it could be meant for either of them. Coyote is definitely the de facto leader of the Forest, he's far more powerful than Ysengrim is, and he was the one who created the divide in the first place. However, Ysengrim has proven himself to be far more anti-human than Coyote is (if Ysen had been in charge, he would have invaded the Court long ago), he's far more unstable and more likely to incite violence, and this group of Court people (Courtiers?) might have actually viewed the creation of the ravine as a good thing, as it seperates those who wish to do science from those who wish to prevent it. So I'm more inclined to change what i said earlier and say that if the arrow is meant for a Canine, it's going to be Ysengrim. Especially since Rey is easily the weakest of the three, if Coyote bites it that puts Yssy in charge, and I'm assuming the Court is intelligent enough to realize that that's very much undesirable. However, I had this idea while writing this, and the more I mull it over the more it makes sense in my head. Diego obviously does not like the guy who Jeanne's fawning over - he keeps telling her to forget about him, and has his little internal monologue ("she still loves that traitor...") after she breaks poor Cambot the first time. I would assume that the Courtiers are not fans of people breaking with the court and joining with the forests, and I'm assuming Diego would also really like to see this guy dead (he seems to have that particular jealous, if-I-can't-have-her-neither-can-he streak). Therefore, wouldn't it be possible that the guy Jeanne loves (I shall call him Juan) is about to recieve an arrow to the face from our man Steadman? It's possible Juan was somewhat important in the Court before he switched sides, and it's also possible he knew a bunch of stuff the Court would rather he not tell the Forest creatures about (secret projects, etc.) Therefore, it's possible this group of "radical" (for lack of a better term) pro-Court people might have decided that Juan is better off dead than with the enemy, and they're willing to kill him to keep the secrets he knows secret. This would mean Diego would be willing to help them kill someone (he definitely holds no love for Juan), it makes sense that Steadman would consider the task "weighty" (he's off to kill a guy he knew, and may have even been friendly with), and it would definitely set the stage for Jeanne to die (maybe she kills Steadman after he shoots Juan, then Young kills her? I don't think she gets shot by Steadman, because Diego hates Young, not Steadman.) It makes sense to me. Entirely possible I'm missing something and am about to get curb-stomped by logic, but whatever. Throwing ideas out on this board is scary
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Post by shazam on Dec 13, 2009 1:49:17 GMT
First post here, so hi.
There are other things we know.
Jeanne's ghost was a) down by the river, and b) on the Court side.
Also we are getting sounds from the little recorder bot, some of which sound like the Tiktok birds, which saved Annie from her fall without explanation.
It would make sense if part of the tragedy was Jeanne falling into the canyon and none of the robots being able to save her. Perhaps if she tried to stop Sir Young from shooting the arrow and fell in the tussle, or if she actually was shot herself. The fact that the ghost has Jeanne's sword out (which was shown in her room too), implies she was ready to fight, and perhaps was involved with one.
This would also explain the birds, which apparently are a mystery to the Court as a whole. The Court in Diego's eyes was responsible for Jeanne's death, and he makes a new creation that resembles an animal (showing his changed disdain for the beasts of the wood/sensitivity to Jeanne's aesthetics... perhaps even trying to meld the rift by creating something with elements of the natural and technological worlds), to watch the Court. However, like all his creations they'd remember and try to atone for not having saved Jeanne, by in part stopping another girl from falling to her death in a conflict between the Court and the Woods.
In fact, if the birds are symbolic of Diego's change of heart, he might represent a third faction that is trying to undo the rift between the Court and Woods that led to his Jeanne's death.
PS - The fact the karimata has a whistler on it, implies its for battle not for hunting. The whistle is similar to bagpipes. Sound to demoralize intelligent foes. But when hunting you don't want a loud shriek to precede the arrow and startle/scare off prey.
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Post by nikita on Dec 13, 2009 12:02:22 GMT
I think those sounds are coming from the projector.
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Post by Casey on Dec 13, 2009 13:42:07 GMT
I'm still going with my earlier post that the plan is to deforest the Forest entirely, and Jeanne sacrifices herself to keep the arrow from flying over the ravine, and that's how she and the net effect of the arrow end up in the ravine instead of in the forest.
I had another theory several days ago, that Sir Young is actually the one that Jeanne is in love with and Sir Young's plan is actually to use the arrow as a signal arrow to make a peace accord with the Forest (as Alex mentioned above) and Diego is going along with it because he's a coward and doesn't think he can stand up to Young, but that's why he thinks Young is a traitor, because he wants to work in a direction that is opposite of what Diego thinks is best. But then, my theory goes, Diego double-crosses them by secretly planting something dangerous in the arrow (see rapid deforestation theory, above) and Jeanne finds out about it and stops the arrow, dying in the process, making the river tainted, and giving Diego a reason to hate Young even more.
Well it -was- my theory, anyway, but then someone said that the idea that Jeanne and Young were romantically involved was preposterous, and I sadly watched as my hopes and dreams were dashed *melodrama*
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Post by Mezzaphor on Dec 13, 2009 15:14:35 GMT
First post here, so hi. There are other things we know. Jeanne's ghost was a) down by the river, and b) on the Court side. Also we are getting sounds from the little recorder bot, some of which sound like the Tiktok birds, which saved Annie from her fall without explanation. It would make sense if part of the tragedy was Jeanne falling into the canyon and none of the robots being able to save her. Perhaps if she tried to stop Sir Young from shooting the arrow and fell in the tussle, or if she actually was shot herself. The fact that the ghost has Jeanne's sword out (which was shown in her room too), implies she was ready to fight, and perhaps was involved with one. This would also explain the birds, which apparently are a mystery to the Court as a whole. The Court in Diego's eyes was responsible for Jeanne's death, and he makes a new creation that resembles an animal (showing his changed disdain for the beasts of the wood/sensitivity to Jeanne's aesthetics... perhaps even trying to meld the rift by creating something with elements of the natural and technological worlds), to watch the Court. However, like all his creations they'd remember and try to atone for not having saved Jeanne, by in part stopping another girl from falling to her death in a conflict between the Court and the Woods. In fact, if the birds are symbolic of Diego's change of heart, he might represent a third faction that is trying to undo the rift between the Court and Woods that led to his Jeanne's death. PS - The fact the karimata has a whistler on it, implies its for battle not for hunting. The whistle is similar to bagpipes. Sound to demoralize intelligent foes. But when hunting you don't want a loud shriek to precede the arrow and startle/scare off prey. Interesting theory. The only problem with it is, according to the robots themselves, the Tic-Tocs are ancient -- possibly older than the Court itself -- and weren't created by Diego.
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Post by wynne on Dec 13, 2009 19:36:57 GMT
Man Jeanne, why are you worried about the guy in the forest when you have dudes like Steadman around? This pretty much sums up my feelings about this page. Though I agree with the whole "glowing arrow makes Annan Waters impassible" hypothesis. I think Diego might've come up with the idea so Jeanne would HAVE to forget about the other guy, but he miscalculated her response.
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Post by Ulysses on Dec 13, 2009 20:29:35 GMT
I've just had a horrible thought - we won't see anything about Jeanne's death in this chapter. We'll jump back to the present before any questions are actually answered. A few people might scream, but at least it would keep us in suspenders.
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Post by King Mir on Dec 13, 2009 21:13:15 GMT
A lot of people have suggested that their was some sort of accident involving the arrow and Jeanie. I think if this were the case, Diego is more likely to blame himself, rather than Steadman or Young; it is human nature to hold oneself at higher standards than others. Diego would blame himself first for building the arrow. That might be irrational, but so would blaming young for an accident. If he can forgive himself, he would forgive young too.
So either the events do not cause Jeanie's death, or there is deliberate action on young's part not to prevent it. If this is the story of Jeanie's death, Young must have allowed Jeanie to die when he could have stopped it or even murdered her directly.
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Post by todd on Dec 13, 2009 23:16:04 GMT
Interesting theory. The only problem with it is, according to the robots themselves, the Tic-Tocs are ancient -- possibly older than the Court itself -- and weren't created by Diego. Though the robots spoke of the Tic Toc Bird in the singular rather than in the plural; for all that we know, the Tic Tocs that we've seen in the comic might have been built by someone who'd heard the legend and was inspired by it.
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Post by the bandit on Dec 13, 2009 23:49:28 GMT
Only for those hung up on the Young-as-rival-lover speculation. You say that as if that were suddenly some fringe crazy notion. It has stood for months and months as the most likely explanation. Are you suddenly disowning it only now that it's been proved highly unlikely? 1. I try not to own any speculation, though I admit my hands are red with the "Doll-by-Trickery" hypothesis 2. Yes, I do immediately discard speculation the moment that the story makes it untenable as a position. 3. The first two do not increase my disdain for speculation in any way beyond its usual mild form, nor did I imply that it was a crazy fringe notion. It was not, when first speculated; no more than keeping milk in thy refrigerator is a crazy fringe notion -- unless that milk has expired. Yes, essentially. An arrow that flies true finds its mark. Maybe this helped sostorm well enough, but I'm going to recommend not using words with multiple definitions to explain something to someone speaking English as a second language. An arrow that flies true hits its target. One day I'll write a long parody of everybody speculating and making up the most improbable stories imaginable. Nikita, dear, this is already reality. Chrome, if the primary function of the device is to make the waters impassable, then I will be surprised. My speculation was more to hint at the possibility of the end result. I believe there will be significantly more involved and a better glimpse into the quarrel between the humans and the animals before the end result of the impassable waters. Perhaps we will even learn shortly of the traitor's identity and what he did, or perhaps that will be the mystery created by this answer [recording by cambot]. In any case, I was up late and tired when this page came out, and when a body's tired the person is weak against temptation, so forgive my speculation and take it with a grain of salt, lest ye be finding thyself drinking sour milk before too long.
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Chrome
Full Member
The Shiny One
Posts: 232
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Post by Chrome on Dec 14, 2009 2:35:17 GMT
I'm beginning to agree as well - judging from the link someone put in here that the arrow was more a signaling device. Perhaps this was intended to communicate something to the forest, a message of some sort? And it begins that chain of events that results in Jeanne's death.
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optern
Junior Member
Posts: 84
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Post by optern on Dec 14, 2009 3:35:21 GMT
I have to wonder, if this arrow did not do as was intended of it (which seems to be a prevalent assumption here), why didn't Diego make a second one? Or a third? Or a fourth? I think this would need to be addressed.
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Post by shazam on Dec 14, 2009 4:34:39 GMT
Interesting theory. The only problem with it is, according to the robots themselves, the Tic-Tocs are ancient -- possibly older than the Court itself -- and weren't created by Diego. Interesting. Thwarted alas. I forgot about that entry.
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Post by Casey on Dec 14, 2009 5:04:43 GMT
I have to wonder, if this arrow did not do as was intended of it (which seems to be a prevalent assumption here), why didn't Diego make a second one? Or a third? Or a fourth? I think this would need to be addressed. That's a good point. I mentioned in my earlier theory the possibility that the arrow is meant for something positive, but Diego double-crossed the Court members and sabotaged their project by putting something dangerous in it. They wouldn't let him have another chance to do so.
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Post by trav3ler on Dec 14, 2009 7:46:24 GMT
I have to wonder, if this arrow did not do as was intended of it (which seems to be a prevalent assumption here), why didn't Diego make a second one? Or a third? Or a fourth? I think this would need to be addressed. Or perhaps the results of this first attempt were so catastrophic, Diego would never make another arrow, out of guilt/fear something worse would happen?
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Post by Mr Pitchfork on Dec 14, 2009 7:50:11 GMT
Reynardine isn't here to watch the recording, is he? Side note: Steadman is voiced by Owen Burnett.
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Post by warrl on Dec 15, 2009 4:57:10 GMT
One day I'll write a long parody of everybody speculating and making up the most improbable stories imaginable. I think we're already doing that, in all the reaction threads and the wild speculation thread.
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Post by epsilonpb on May 13, 2015 3:14:38 GMT
So there are several peculiar things with the arrow. First of all the tip looks a lot like a medieval forkhead arrow. I do not know why one would want to use such an arrow. It does not seem to me as a good way to kill someone, at best hurt someone or decapitate someone very tiny. Neither does it seem to be a very useful arrow to stick to something (the construction seems less likely to burrow in to a tree trunk for example than a normal narrow). And alongside the tip we have the mechanical construction which I do not at all know what to make of. It does sorta look like a forkhead arrow, but I think it more closely resembles a Japanese whistling/signaling arrow, or Kabura-ya. These were often shot before battles as something of an alert to the enemy, especially in the Heian period. The whistling was believed to scare away demons and gain the attention of friendly Kami (spirits/gods of the Shinto religion).
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Post by fwip on May 13, 2015 4:51:23 GMT
Man, what a necro! This thread is a little over five years dead.
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Post by zbeeblebrox on May 13, 2015 7:14:20 GMT
Yeah holy crap! And here I got all excited because I thought someone had an epiphany connecting this page with current events. Oh well. At least I learned something new about arrows I guess.
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