who wants Jack to join Kat and Annie

[Alex]

This might not have been Tom's intention, but Jack is quickly becoming my favorite character.

I mean, when he was first introduced we saw he was clever, likable, talented, and funny. He and Kat immediately hit it off, and he seemed to be an all-around cool guy.

Then Tom throws him into Hell for half an hour.

It totally screws up the poor guy - not just psychologically, either, now he has frigging magic spiders on his face.

The way he's acted since is neither likable nor funny, but he's demonstrated some incredible nerve in trying to get Annie to tell him what's going on. If Annie would actually do her job as a medium and fix him, it seems like he would be a valuable member of the team.

(At which point, begun the shipping wars have...)

[Casey]

I don't mean this personally, believe me, but I'm pretty sure that Tom actively detests "shippers".

I could be wrong about that, but anyway, now you know.

[Casey]

Oh and as a personal reply: I'm pretty sure that, even if Annie had already completed her medium training, which she hasn't, "fixing" creepy stalkers who need to get a hold of their own problems wouldn't fall into her official job description. So let's put the responsibility for Jack where it actually lies.

[Alex]

Regardless, if you discovered your classmate had an invisible magic spider on his face, wouldn't you make it a bit of a priority to let him know and/or let the people who are familiar with that stuff know?

[Casey]

Yes, yes I would. As I would think Annie would too... if it weren't for the fact that there isn't a single teacher within several miles. *shrug*

[jon77]

Sept 22, 2009 6:57:37 GMT Casey said:

I don't mean this personally, believe me, but I'm pretty sure that Tom actively detests "shippers".

Pardon my ignorance, but what does the term "shippers" mean in this context...?

[Casey]

People who speculate on fictional characters having a relationship.

Edit: See, for example, Tom's author comment (and link) at the bottom of this page.

[Alex]

www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=shipper

relationshipper; One who believes there is, was, should, and could be a relationship between 2 characters in a certain fandom.

edit: I'll be the first to admit that my perspective on stuff Jack does is nowhere near objective, I like him too much

[jon77]

Sept 22, 2009 6:47:22 GMT Alex said:

This might not have been Tom's intention, but Jack is quickly becoming my favorite character.

I mean, when he was first introduced we saw he was clever, likable, talented, and funny. He and Kat immediately hit it off, and he seemed to be an all-around cool guy.

Then Tom throws him into Hell for half an hour.

It totally screws up the poor guy - not just psychologically, either, now he has frigging magic spiders on his face.

The way he's acted since is neither likable nor funny...

Up to here I agree with you 100%, and I think you've made an important point. Jack really is a cool character, and I'm glad we're seeing more of him. I'm very curious to see how this is all going to turn out.

But I'm just a bit troubled by the title of this thread - "who wants Jack to join Kat and Annie". It seems to suggest (though I suspect this was not your intention) that our opinion ought to carry some weight with Tom in how he develops the story. For an author, it is good to get feedback on what he has already written, but the habit of pandering to requests for the future will lead the comic to mediocrity.

[jon77]

Alex, Casey, thanks for the explanation.

[Alex]

Sept 22, 2009 7:33:27 GMT jon77 said:

Sept 22, 2009 6:47:22 GMT Alex said:

This might not have been Tom's intention, but Jack is quickly becoming my favorite character.

I mean, when he was first introduced we saw he was clever, likable, talented, and funny. He and Kat immediately hit it off, and he seemed to be an all-around cool guy.

Then Tom throws him into Hell for half an hour.

It totally screws up the poor guy - not just psychologically, either, now he has frigging magic spiders on his face.

The way he's acted since is neither likable nor funny...

Up to here I agree with you 100%, and I think you've made an important point. Jack really is a cool character, and I'm glad we're seeing more of him. I'm very curious to see how this is all going to turn out.

But I'm just a bit troubled by the title of this thread - "who wants Jack to join Kat and Annie". It seems to suggest (though I suspect this was not your intention) that our opinion ought to carry some weight with Tom in how he develops the story. For an author, it is good to get feedback on what he has already written, but the habit of pandering to requests for the future will lead the comic to mediocrity.

*blink*

Obviously, I don't think Tom cares even a little bit about how I think his narrative should unfold. He's made characters that people care about - and a result of that is that people care about what happens to those characters.

[Aris Katsaris]

If Annie would actually do her job as a medium and fix him,

Annie is a student, not the court's medium. And even if she was the court's medium, fixing people is not the medium's job as far as that job has been described -- the medium's job has been indicated to be mediation.

I'm sorry if I'm being nitpicky here, but you make it sound a bit as if Annie is somehow failing to do something that's her obligation to do. That IMO is placing a duty on her that is not hers by any stretch of the imagination.

Right now her only obligation seems to me "tell Anja or some other member of the faculty as soon as possible that a kid has an etherial spider on his face". There her duty to Jack ends -- anything beyond that is a product of Annie's continuous going-above-and-beyond-the-call-of-duty -- and something to be praised as exceptional, not something to be dismissed as "her job".

[Rasselas]

Hahaha, I thought "shippers" meant "worshippers", like fans. I do feel silly now.

[Mezzaphor]

When Jack first showed up, I was hoping that he would end up in Annie and Kat's circle of friends. Now I'm less sure of the likelihood of this happening.

[jon77]

Sept 22, 2009 13:41:56 GMT Rasselas said:

Hahaha, I thought "shippers" meant "worshippers", like fans. I do feel silly now.

I'm so glad I wasn't the only one who didn't know what that meant

[Alex]

Sept 22, 2009 11:43:19 GMT Aris Katsaris said:

If Annie would actually do her job as a medium and fix him,

Annie is a student, not the court's medium. And even if she was the court's medium, fixing people is not the medium's job as far as that job has been described -- the medium's job has been indicated to be mediation.

I'm sorry if I'm being nitpicky here, but you make it sound a bit as if Annie is somehow failing to do something that's her obligation to do. That IMO is placing a duty on her that is not hers by any stretch of the imagination.

Right now her only obligation seems to me "tell Anja or some other member of the faculty as soon as possible that a kid has an etherial spider on his face". There her duty to Jack ends -- anything beyond that is a product of Annie's continuous going-above-and-beyond-the-call-of-duty -- and something to be praised as exceptional, not something to be dismissed as "her job".

This is fair. I should have said her job as protagonist

[the bandit]

That doesn't work, either. If she's not doing her job as protagonist, then Tom isn't writing her correctly, which is impossible. But you've already been unjustly accused of making recommendations for Tom, so I'm probably not helping...

[penguinfactory]

I agree that Jack is a really well-written character.

As to whether I want him to join the gang.... I don't know. I have a soft spot for sympathetic antagonists, and I think Jack could become a great one.

[todd]

One possible reason why Tom might choose not to have Jack join up with Kat and Annie: the team of "two children of one gender - one of whom is the protagonist - and one of the opposite gender" would evoke "Harry Potter" to some readers, and Tom doesn't want further accusations of "Gunnerkrigg Court" as a Harry Potter rip-off.

[Uglyhead]

It would be cool for Antimony and Kat's circle of friends to grow in general, not just to include Jack - should they work out their differences, naturally - but others too. However, there are already a few sidekicks who aren't used much (Shadow2, Robot, for example), and writing and drawing a larger team of characters would likely be additionally time consuming and challenging.

[Max]

I dunno, the whole "gang of kids" trope is overdone. I actually really like that it's just Annie and Kat. It makes the story that much more intimate, and allows Tom to focus the story more closely on the characters, their personalities, and how they relate to each other. It's a story about friendship.

[Goatmon]

Sept 22, 2009 6:59:31 GMT Casey said:

Oh and as a personal reply: I'm pretty sure that, even if Annie had already completed her medium training, which she hasn't, "fixing" creepy stalkers who need to get a hold of their own problems wouldn't fall into her official job description. So let's put the responsibility for Jack where it actually lies.

Assuming he is in complete control of his actions.

Regardless, I would definitely like to see Jack's dilemma resolved and for him to become at least a friendly acquaintence to Annie and Kat.

The comic could use a cool young guy in the lineup, and Jack seemed to fit that bill nicely before he got dragged into Zimmyland.

Edit: Andrew doesn't count, because he is a huge dorkface.

[Casey]

Sept 23, 2009 3:04:17 GMT Max said:

I dunno, the whole "gang of kids" trope is overdone. I actually really like that it's just Annie and Kat. It makes the story that much more intimate, and allows Tom to focus the story more closely on the characters, their personalities, and how they relate to each other. It's a story about friendship.

This^^^.

[cleargreenfire]

When we first met Jack, I really liked him, then he got sucked into Zimtown and turned into 'Spazzy McSpazz Face'
I'm hoping to see more of the original Jack, but what I really hope comes of this recent course of events is some self assessment of Annie's part. She really does hold herself apart from everything, which, in my opinion, is detrimental to her development as a decent human being.

[omegax123]

Sept 22, 2009 6:57:37 GMT Casey said:

I don't mean this personally, believe me, but I'm pretty sure that Tom actively detests "shippers".

I could be wrong about that, but anyway, now you know.

Weeeell, considering he (actively and deliberately, if my calculations are correct, though I may have forgotten to carry the one...) induced shipping between Smitface and Parley...

[Casey]

I think when fans put together characters who aren't together it's 'shipping.

I think when the author does it, it's character development.

[warrl]

Sept 23, 2009 4:32:53 GMT cleargreenfire said:

When we first met Jack, I really liked him, then he got sucked into Zimtown and turned into 'Spazzy McSpazz Face'
I'm hoping to see more of the original Jack, but what I really hope comes of this recent course of events is some self assessment of Annie's part. She really does hold herself apart from everything, which, in my opinion, is detrimental to her development as a decent human being.

Annie is an introvert. She has to carefully manage and limit social interactions or she'll be perpetually exhausted and be no use to anyone (including herself) for anything.

Unfortunately, we do live in a society where anyone who can stand being alone or who can be quiet in a crowd is regarded as strange... who can't draw a distinction between UNsocial and ANTIsocial.

[KittasaurusRex]

Sept 22, 2009 6:47:22 GMT Alex said:

It totally screws up the poor guy - not just psychologically, either, now he has frigging magic spiders on his face.

I have never read the spiders as literally existing. I think they are an extension of his psychological condition, something he is projecting outside himself without realizing it. Unlike Annie and Zimmy, he didn't have the relative advantage of knowing that what he was experiencing was not real. Seems to me that he probably experienced some things he didn't know were his worst fears until he was in the middle of Zimmy's projected horror facing them.

I get the feeling that he, like Annie, is strongly inclined toward the etherial--he just doesn't realize it. Hence getting caught in "Zimmyland" and his fascination with Annie's blinker stone. But no one's explained any of this to him, so--like the twelve-year-old boy he is--he creeps around trying to learn things himself. He is a bit of a psychological mess. He must sleep about as much as Zimmy, by the rings around his eyes. His terror and confusion are what really make him human and sympathetic.

There's some amazing writing happening with Jack's character and the way he interacts with Kat and Annie. Jack is a great foil to Annie--she accepts everything that happens to her calmly, even when it makes no sense. She trusts that it'll all clear up and fit together. Jack is so panicked by his first experience of real, horrifying strangeness that he can't trust anyone or any thing. There's a little childlike naivety in both approaches, and they highlight that in each other.

...so I guess that what I'm trying to say is that the Jack/Annie opposition is a masterful bit of writing and I would be extremely unhappy if Jack just went "Hey Antimony, what is going on here exactly?" and then everybody was happy and friendly.

[occasionalexister]

Oct 10, 2009 5:58:40 GMT KittasaurusRex said:

Sept 22, 2009 6:47:22 GMT Alex said:

It totally screws up the poor guy - not just psychologically, either, now he has frigging magic spiders on his face.

I have never read the spiders as literally existing. I think they are an extension of his psychological condition, something he is projecting outside himself without realizing it. Unlike Annie and Zimmy, he didn't have the relative advantage of knowing that what he was experiencing was not real. Seems to me that he probably experienced some things he didn't know were his worst fears until he was in the middle of Zimmy's projected horror facing them.

I get the feeling that he, like Annie, is strongly inclined toward the etherial--he just doesn't realize it. Hence getting caught in "Zimmyland" and his fascination with Annie's blinker stone. But no one's explained any of this to him, so--like the twelve-year-old boy he is--he creeps around trying to learn things himself. He is a bit of a psychological mess. He must sleep about as much as Zimmy, by the rings around his eyes. His terror and confusion are what really make him human and sympathetic.

There's some amazing writing happening with Jack's character and the way he interacts with Kat and Annie. Jack is a great foil to Annie--she accepts everything that happens to her calmly, even when it makes no sense. She trusts that it'll all clear up and fit together. Jack is so panicked by his first experience of real, horrifying strangeness that he can't trust anyone or any thing. There's a little childlike naivety in both approaches, and they highlight that in each other.

...so I guess that what I'm trying to say is that the Jack/Annie opposition is a masterful bit of writing and I would be extremely unhappy if Jack just went "Hey Antimony, what is going on here exactly?" and then everybody was happy and friendly.

I agree with you about Jack's personality being one of the reasons why he doesn't just come out and ask Annie for help but I'm pretty positive the spider is real. We've already seen that Zimmy's powers cause her hallucinations to become real if left unchecked and insects and arachnids have been associated with her powers. There are spiders in Zimmy's "aura" in panel 2 here:
www.gunnerkrigg.com/archive_page.php?comicID=187
bugs around her head in panel 2 here:
www.gunnerkrigg.com/archive_page.php?comicID=188
here, well it's kind of obvious, but there are also spiders following it out of the wall in panel 4 here:
www.gunnerkrigg.com/archive_page.php?comicID=190
and again underneath the monster in panel 2 here:
www.gunnerkrigg.com/archive_page.php?comicID=192
plus there's this sign here (http://www.gunnerkrigg.com/archive_page.php?comicID=73) which I think was translated by Sammy B. on his blog as "Danger Insects" (which, looking back seems like great foreshadowing by the way) leads me to believe that the spider is really is real and is making Jack go nutsy-cuckoo. Anyway I love Jack as a character but I'm nut sure if I want him to join the Annie-Kat dynamic. Maybe he could join them every once in a while, like a special guest star. This week Annie and Kat meet Don Knotts! But before that happens I kind of hope Jack goes from antagonist, to full-on demonic-spider controlled evil, to regular self who becomes the atoner and maybe someday friend to the duo. I'm probably hoping for too much but I'm excited at the prospect that Annie and Kat might have to face a full-on threat and Jack's enough of a complex character that it's still okay to have sympathy for him and hope he gets better... I feel like I just wrote a dissertation... I am such a nerd. Ah well.

[Aris Katsaris]

The one in #73 is "Danger Insect" - singular, not plural.