mjh
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Posts: 179
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Post by mjh on Aug 26, 2009 18:46:44 GMT
I bet this is a large part of why Chuckles is so hacked off at the humans, no pun intended. All the trees are his, and they're up and ruining his lovely little pets. Maybe he should not send his beloved trees to the Court then? While it would appear prudent to destroy any plants attacking the Court, they are set free in a park. What more could one reasonably expect?
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Post by Casey on Aug 26, 2009 19:25:08 GMT
I'd like to point out that we don't know if the Bound Dogs we saw in Ties were sent by Ysengrin. Remember Ysengrin was not controlling Robot when he came back across the bridge; the Shadow Man was. And we also saw the Shadow Men riding around on/in the Bound Dog. So it may not have been an attack at all. It may have been the Shadow Men acting on their own volition (Joyriding, got lost, on a rescue/scouting mission, etc).
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Post by Seth Thresher on Aug 26, 2009 20:37:13 GMT
Well here's what I think on all that:
Yes, Ysengrin wasn't controlling Robot, or possibly the Bound Dogs, and just so it also seems the Shadowm'n are able to. So, Shadowm'n share some amount of Y's "power over trees", but we don't know to what degree. I'm willing to bet the difference lies in that Y can probably shape and mold wood however he wants, while both are able to move and control its form.
Uh, another thing? People are speculating all about what the Shadowm'n were doing back in Ties. There's one possibility that I haven't seen come up anywhere that I thought would have come up by now:
Coyote's not from England! Yeah sure, world is his home, etc, but he was definitely over in North America, being a part of the mythology over there. Something tells me that it's the Americas where he made the Shadow Men, not Gillitie Wood where we see them running all over the place today. When Coyote left for Gillitie it wasn't an issue for himself to get there (being a god and all) but if his creations wanted to follow him, a way would have to be arranged...
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Post by Casey on Aug 26, 2009 20:41:24 GMT
No, Coyote brought his Shadow Men with him from the Americas: Tom said so.
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Post by Seth Thresher on Aug 26, 2009 20:52:14 GMT
Yeah, but how? Possibly with the Bound Dogs =0
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Post by Jiminiminy on Aug 26, 2009 20:53:25 GMT
Or he just made more, he is a god after all.
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Post by Hnokki on Aug 26, 2009 20:56:16 GMT
Yeah, but how? Possibly with the Bound Dogs =0 Couldn't have been hard for him. He's very powerful, of course.
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Post by mochakimono on Aug 26, 2009 21:42:57 GMT
This page sort of gives me the chills. The way that the dogs (and Ys) "shake like an old man" make their unnatural transformations seem more disturbing. Sure, the Court creates its strange robots to do all their bidding (horsebot, barberbot, etc.), but it looks like the Wood takes things that already exist, alive, and warps them into the necessary forms for a task. And it doesn't sound like it's entirely at the warpee's will to be transformed into a beast of burden.
(Coupled with the fact that permanent Wood-to-Court immigration generally involves killing yourself first, the Wood just keeps getting creepier and creepier to me.)
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Post by Jiminiminy on Aug 26, 2009 21:52:09 GMT
Hm. I just realized something. Robot's arm would have been in the decon room for what, a little more than a year? Maybe less, it's difficult to tell, but around twelve months' time in order for it to have become suitable for plantation, assuming they relocated it shortly before the current chapter's time. However, the tree in the room we saw before was quite established, at least enough to have adapted to the artificial seasons, which implies it's been there for a good while.
Why? Are its ties to the Wood so great that it takes so much longer than the arm? Is there some other reason as to why it's there? What effect would be put upon Annie and Kat, if they had eaten enough for the ties to be transferred onto them? All rather interesting, now that I consider it.
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Post by Casey on Aug 26, 2009 22:07:19 GMT
Hm. I just realized something. Robot's arm would have been in the decon room for what, a little more than a year? Maybe less, it's difficult to tell, but around twelve months' time in order for it to have become suitable for plantation, assuming they relocated it shortly before the current chapter's time. However, the tree in the room we saw before was quite established, at least enough to have adapted to the artificial seasons, which implies it's been there for a good while. Why? Are its ties to the Wood so great that it takes so much longer than the arm? Is there some other reason as to why it's there? What effect would be put upon Annie and Kat, if they had eaten enough for the ties to be transferred onto them? All rather interesting, now that I consider it. Again: plot device. Chapter 6 would not have been nearly as interesting if they'd gone in the decon room and found a scrawny little twiggy tree like the RobotArm tree. Edit: I should have specified that this is my opinion.
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mjh
Full Member
Posts: 179
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Post by mjh on Aug 26, 2009 22:36:23 GMT
Remember Ysengrin was not controlling Robot when he came back across the bridge; the Shadow Man was. Yes, but it had been Ysengrin planting Robot’s arm (and presumably rendering him unconscious – whatever that’s supposed to mean for a robot – until the arm was fully grown). Unless we naively assume – as Robot did – that the “nice man” wanted to help him, planting the arm must have been done for ulterior motives, and it isn’t that far-fetched to assume that Ysengrin was the mastermind behind the attack that followed. The shadow man was just a pawn in his game. Anyway, I guess my main point is that those seemingly conscious wooden creatures we have seen don’t really have a mind of their own, but are controlled by shadow men or indeed Ysengrin himself. Left to their own devices within the Court they just take root where they get a chance. There’s no need to shed a tear for the unlucky dog wood or Robot’s planted arm; they are probably quite content (as far as a plant can feel that way).
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Post by fidodo on Aug 27, 2009 0:59:57 GMT
The shadowmen could just be using the dogs as a means of getting from point A to point B (Gillitie). The dogs probably go through the court (like in chapter 22) because it's quicker and/or it's in the way. If so, where's point A? Anja here says that it looks like it's just trying to get through. Anyone else noticing how this is, above all else, a trophy garden of severed limbs and dead corpses from Gillitie? I can't imagine any Forest supporters would be too happy if they saw this, and wouldn't be surprised if there were some people in the Court itself that think its weird and even plain wrong. It looks to me that these wood creatures are just the forests version of technology, so it would get the same sympathy as a car would.
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Post by Seth Thresher on Aug 27, 2009 1:47:04 GMT
^But at the same time, an automotive engineer would cringe seeing his beloved prototype get the works with the business end of a sledgehammer.
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Post by Mylian on Aug 27, 2009 2:50:00 GMT
Hm. I just realized something. Robot's arm would have been in the decon room for what, a little more than a year? Maybe less, it's difficult to tell, but around twelve months' time in order for it to have become suitable for plantation, assuming they relocated it shortly before the current chapter's time. However, the tree in the room we saw before was quite established, at least enough to have adapted to the artificial seasons, which implies it's been there for a good while. Why? Are its ties to the Wood so great that it takes so much longer than the arm? Is there some other reason as to why it's there? What effect would be put upon Annie and Kat, if they had eaten enough for the ties to be transferred onto them? All rather interesting, now that I consider it. Again: plot device. Chapter 6 would not have been nearly as interesting if they'd gone in the decon room and found a scrawny little twiggy tree like the RobotArm tree. Edit: I should have specified that this is my opinion. The cherry tree probably does have a more powerful connection to the Wood than the tree arm. After all, perfectly normal cherries don't put you into a giddy stupor, do they?
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Post by Casey on Aug 27, 2009 3:01:58 GMT
Nor did these cherries. It was just the first time that Annie was able to relax, being isolated from the outside world in that perfect serene environment. She had been bottling up so much emotion from the death of her mother, and it was that emotion finally coming out that you and others are calling "a giddy stupor" which IMO is inaccurate and kind of unfair.
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Post by Goatmon on Aug 27, 2009 6:02:56 GMT
I'd like to point out that we don't know if the Bound Dogs we saw in Ties were sent by Ysengrin. Remember Ysengrin was not controlling Robot when he came back across the bridge; the Shadow Man was. Oh of course. I'm sure he just gave the unwanted intruder robot a new arm as a going away present.
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Post by Mezzaphor on Aug 27, 2009 6:16:59 GMT
Yes, but it had been Ysengrin planting Robot’s arm (and presumably rendering him unconscious – whatever that’s supposed to mean for a robot – until the arm was fully grown). Unless we naively assume – as Robot did – that the “nice man” wanted to help him, planting the arm must have been done for ulterior motives, and it isn’t that far-fetched to assume that Ysengrin was the mastermind behind the attack that followed. The shadow man was just a pawn in his game. Reynardine alleged that Coyote was behind the kidnapping attempt on the bridge. Coyote didn't mind the accusation in the slightest. The cherry tree probably does have a more powerful connection to the Wood than the tree arm. After all, perfectly normal cherries don't put you into a giddy stupor, do they? Actually, they can.Nor did these cherries. It was just the first time that Annie was able to relax, being isolated from the outside world in that perfect serene environment. She had been bottling up so much emotion from the death of her mother, and it was that emotion finally coming out that you and others are calling "a giddy stupor" which IMO is inaccurate and kind of unfair. Back before Tom took an axe to the below-comic notes in the first five chapters, this page had a note where Tom pointed out that eating too many cherries could make a person tipsy.
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Post by Casey on Aug 27, 2009 6:27:42 GMT
I'd like to point out that we don't know if the Bound Dogs we saw in Ties were sent by Ysengrin. Remember Ysengrin was not controlling Robot when he came back across the bridge; the Shadow Man was. Oh of course. I'm sure he just gave the unwanted intruder robot a new arm as a going away present. Once again someone fails to distinguish "planned" from "controlled". You're the second person to read what I said as "Ysengrin didn't have anything to do with it." What I said was that Ysengrin was not actually IN CONTROL of Robot's body... the Shadow Man was. Link for the non-believers
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Post by Casey on Aug 27, 2009 6:31:42 GMT
Nor did these cherries. It was just the first time that Annie was able to relax, being isolated from the outside world in that perfect serene environment. She had been bottling up so much emotion from the death of her mother, and it was that emotion finally coming out that you and others are calling "a giddy stupor" which IMO is inaccurate and kind of unfair. Back before Tom took an axe to the below-comic notes in the first five chapters, this page had a note where Tom pointed out that eating too many cherries could make a person tipsy. Ah, well, that's new information to me, and that changes things. I don't imagine he would have put that note unless that were how he intended us to interpret the page, so, I retract my earlier statement.
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Post by fidodo on Aug 27, 2009 11:55:02 GMT
I wonder what that diagram is about. You can see the connection from the forest side to the tree being severed, but it's also connected to the seed bismuth. So does that mean it's already connected to the seed bismuth, or that they made a connection to it to decontaminate it?
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Post by Seth Thresher on Aug 27, 2009 15:23:13 GMT
Casey I didn't misread what you said D=
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Post by Ulysses on Aug 27, 2009 18:50:49 GMT
Wait, if those are hands...what's Annie standing on in panel 5? I'm not sure I want to know... We finally find out what the Dogwoods are actually called! I'm wondering whether the Court gave them the name Bound Dogs or the Forest? And what the connotations of being Bound are. It seems a highly provocative description for what is basically a form of transport and not alive in any way without its controller. Maybe the Court feels the same way was Mochakimono (see above post somewhere) and doesn't like to see -apparently- alive beings being controlled like that, even though they know it's not actually alive.
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Post by Casey on Aug 27, 2009 19:21:12 GMT
Maybe they bound over buildings and obstacles a la Sir Eglamore?
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Post by Per on Aug 27, 2009 19:32:04 GMT
We finally find out what the Dogwoods are actually called! I'm wondering whether the Court gave them the name Bound Dogs or the Forest? They call 'em Bound Dogs 'cause they ain't nothing but Bound Dogs.
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Post by imaginaryfriend on Aug 27, 2009 19:36:12 GMT
Could be because they're a bunch of wood bound into the form of a hound, or because they're bound into service to the shadow men.
Maybe Coyote got the lyrics from the Elvis song slightly off.
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Post by Ulysses on Aug 27, 2009 20:03:02 GMT
Could be because they're a bunch of wood bound into the form of a hound, Bob says that they grow that shape naturally and are used later on. or because they're bound into service to the shadow men. That's kind of my point - they're not bound in the sense that you might bind a horse to a carriage because the horse is alive and some people might argue that they therefore shouldn't be used that way. The argument doesn't apply to the Bound Dogs because they're not alive, they're simply animated by 'magic', they have no thought or feeling of their own. So in what sense are they 'bound'? It may well be the case that Bound Dog just happens to sound better than Used Dog-Shaped-Root or Animated-By-Magic Dog in which case I'm getting too involved They call 'em Bound Dogs 'cause they ain't nothing but Bound Dogs.
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Post by Per on Aug 27, 2009 20:46:14 GMT
I feel 99.25% confident that they're called bound dogs since they leap and bound in ways that make other bushes go "tut". That doesn't lead to much interesting speculation I guess.
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Post by Casey on Aug 27, 2009 21:24:39 GMT
I think they're called bound dogs because naming them that was BOUND to get a bunch of people speculatin' on the boards!
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Post by Mezzaphor on Aug 27, 2009 22:40:53 GMT
I just realized--if the topic of conversation turns to the Robot who used to have the tree-hand, Annie will need to be careful with her words, or she may let it slip that she knew Robot. Wait, if those are hands...what's Annie standing on in panel 5? I'm not sure I want to know... My thinking was that the entire tree was a hand. So Annie was standing on its thumb.
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Post by imaginaryfriend on Aug 27, 2009 23:07:08 GMT
Bob says that they grow that shape naturally and are used later on. I see Bob saying that they use all sorts of magic to control the trees. Where does he say they grow naturally into that shape? So in what sense are they 'bound'? Spellbound! As in, bound with spells to grow into a particular form. Controlled with spells, their wills (if any) are made subservient to their shadow riders. "following the footsteps of a rag-doll dance/ we are entranced, spellbound"
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