Too confusing to follow?

[todd]

I've noticed several times many readers apparently finding "Gunnerkrigg Court" difficult to follow. People were confused about the flashbacks in Chapter Eighteen. They had difficulties recognizing Eglamore in Chapter Seventeen, and at least one person wondered who Paz was in the pages last week. They were uncertain whether Surma was speaking to Anja or the other way around in Chapter Twenty-two. And so on. Tom's even often responded to it by a lot of "spelling it out" captions.

I wonder whether the confused readers simply aren't used to webcomics in a serialized format (being more at home, presumably, with "gag comics" where each strip is independent from the others), or whether the story may be too confusing at times. I haven't found it confusing, but it seems that others do.

I certainly don't want Tom to give up on the story and turn "Gunnerkrigg Court" into a gag strip, with Annie's explorations dropped and all the strips being "Bonus Page"-type pages whose purpose, each time, is to set up the punchline in the final panel. But I wonder whether the serialized graphic novel approach is too complicated for some readers.

[Per]

Wondering who Paz is may just mean it was two years since they read the strips where she appeared and they weren't waiting for her to come back. As for this "Tom" character, what chapters does he appear in.

[picaro]

If children reading this in a language not their own can follow, I'm quite sure that the other readers will be fine.

It's also an unedited format, so some of the things you've mentioned such as confusing speech bubbles, aren't really that confusing, just matters for clarification.

[pepoluan]

Well, there are some quite good webcomics that's serialized. "Dr. McNinja" comes to mind.

I guess people are just lazy; the overabundant of gag-a-day webcomics makes people wanting Instant Gratification all the time.

In my opinion, GC has gone above and beyond the call of duty by providing:
- A drop-down box so people can go directly to a certain page
- A list of chapters underneath "Tom's Caption" (or underneath the comment box if you open the comments)
- An "Archives" button -- which gives links to the WHOLE GC, arranged in a calendar format
- "Previous" arrows (one near the top, one near the bottom)
- "First page" double-arrow

The only thing lacking is a boldfaced all-capital red text on white rectangle saying " THIS IS A SERIALIZED COMIC. PLEASE READ FROM PAGE 1 "

[wynne]

If you read through all the archives, it's not a confusing story at all. Also, the GK Wiki site is a godsend for looking up characters we haven't seen before. Unless you've read the archives, though, like with any serialized strip, it makes no sense. I remember when I first started reading, it was at the beginning of chapter 21. I couldn't go through the archive all at once, so I tried looking stuff up (like what was up with all the robots) and it failed. Because everything in the story builds on previous chapters (not necessarily the most recent), you do have to read the entire story.

That's not a bad thing (if anything, it enriches the story and makes sure you read the whole thing), it just means that some readers may be a bit unused to the idea that even though each chapter has its own resolution, it still connects to and is a vital part of the whole as opposed to there being a single, unbroken storyline.

[Babble-jargon Bill]

Sorry if I'm coming off as ignorant here, but there are people who just read the chapters individually without reading from page 1? I was under the impression that everybody started at the beginning.

[pepoluan]

Aug 19, 2009 15:00:38 GMT wynne said:

If you read through all the archives, ...

Hi, wynne!

Care to share some interesting tidbits about yourself in the Introduction Thread?

That said, thanks for reminding us that there *are* people who actually read from the start of the Chapter... but unfortunately GC is more like a soap opera than an episodic serial

[Casey]

Aug 19, 2009 12:55:11 GMT todd said:

But I wonder whether the serialized graphic novel approach is too complicated for some readers.

This here is the core of what Todd was saying, and I think that specific question is what should be addressed. And the simple answer to that question, Todd, is that yes, this comic and its style is too complicated for some readers.

But not in the sense that they aren't smart enough to follow it, or even that they are too lazy to understand it. It isn't necessarily due to a fundamental flaw in the reader. Nor is it necessarily due to a fundamental flaw in the comic. No, it is simply that everyone has their own tastes, and for some people, comics of this type just aren't their cup of tea. And there isn't anything wrong with that.

I don't imagine that Tom set out to create, or realistically expects that he is creating, a comic that appeals to EVERYONE. That's just not possible. This comic takes a certain amount of thinking and recollection to get the most out of. Heck, I've even seen varying degrees of recollection and understanding within the ranks of those that say they do like the comic... so being dedicated enough to remember every character and line like some people do is not a requirement for fandom. Someone can love the comic to pieces, and still not necessarily remember who Paz is. It's not for us to judge.

I personally think that I could best anyone here in a GC trivia contest. No, really. Thanks to the GKCFP, I've read the entire comic from end to end, absorbing every word for meaning and nuance, at least a dozen times if not more. But that doesn't make me special, and it doesn't make me a "better fan" than anyone else. I do get a little frustrated at time when I'm trying to talk to someone about minute, specific nuances of a particular exchange and they aren't as intimately familiar with it as I am, sure... but it would be irresponsible and unfair of me to ever think that that makes them any less of a fan of the comic than I am. There are tons of people who L O V E this comic to death, but intimate knowledge of every aspect of the story is not a prerequisite for entry into the fan club, you know what I mean?

I know that for me and many, many other people out there, one of the big reasons we love this comic is BECAUSE it is complicated, and engages our brains as well as our imaginations. We see the complexity not as a shortcoming, but rather, as the very thing that makes the comic stand out against all others. I believe it is one of the reasons that this comic wins awards. I deeply admire Tom's ability to wrestle an enormous plot line with deep characters that the fans care very much about. That is NOT easy. I mean we critique how he draws Annie's nose... that's a sign that we are emotionally invested in his creative work, which I think would be a compliment of the highest order. We all really CARE about this story and what happens to its cast. That's saying a lot.

So in conclusion: I recognize that there are people out there for whom this comic is not going to be what they want in their online entertainment. And that's okay with me. I don't take the time to ponder what fundamental flaw exists in them, or in the comic, that makes them not like it, because that's just human nature. And there are also people for whom the comic -is- more than they can keep track of, but it doesn't make them love the comic any less. If anything, it gives them even more in the Gunnerkrigg universe that they can explore and come to understand over time. And that's a good thing.



Footnote to pepoluan: Stop hitting on all the female board members please!

[pepoluan]

Aug 19, 2009 15:48:01 GMT Casey said:

A long explanation which I agree wholeheartedly

You put it beautifully, Casey

Aug 19, 2009 15:48:01 GMT Casey said:

Footnote to pepoluan: Stop hitting on all the female board members please!

I am not hitting on female board members!

I am hitting on new members... and if the new member happens to be female, well, that's fine with me

[Seth Thresher]

*feels a lot more uncomfortable, backs away slowly, looks for the door*

[pepoluan]

Aug 19, 2009 16:41:29 GMT Seth Thresher said:

*feels a lot more uncomfortable, backs away slowly, looks for the door*

The door's gone. Mort took care of that.

Now come back here and sit and enjoy ;D

[Seth Thresher]

D8

[nikita]

I think we shouldn't overrate this kind of thing. Yeah, there will be confused people sometimes, but often that's just a handful among thousands.

[bluemotion]

I think many people aren't used to the comic format in general. In, say, a novel, the reader has to view the complete sentence or paragraph in order to understand it, but in a comic format, a lot can be gleaned from the visual aspect alone. I've noticed that this can trick readers into not paying as close attention as they could.

I'm normally pretty good about this, but on a few of my (many) re-reads of GCK, I've found myself noticing a line or even entire panel that I had kind of skimmed over previously. I can see someone not used to webcomics falling prey to this heavily, and missing out on nice big chunks of exposition.

[the bandit]

The potential audience for this comic (the Internet) contains a disproportionate number of sub-par IQ people to the general population, which enjoys no dearth of sub-par IQ people itself. Tom's work is nuanced, dynamic and full of mystery, leaving no surprise that some of the less observant audience members who lack critical thinking skills experience confusion. Add in everyone's penchant for speculation and projecting their own unfounded wishes into the comic and it's no wonder that even some fans express confusion from time to time.

[jon77]

Speaking of "Too confusing to follow", has anyone here read Robert Jordan's "Wheel of Time" series?

Veterans of that series should have no problem following Gunnerkrigg Court...

But getting back to the point - part of what makes GC so special is the feeling that you're in a world which always contains one more mystery, and the next page will reveal a little bit more of it. The careful attention to detail means you have this same experience when re-reading it, or when discussing it. You go back and re-read a page from 3 months ago, and once again it reveals a little bit more.

[xenophonhendrix]

Relevant link--if you look the report over, you will see that "proficient" isn't really all that tough. Most people simply have poor reading comprehension.

[chiparoo]

I think I'm just content to facepalm and make fun of the people who ask stupid questions, instead of really analyzing why.
Good lord, I try to be understanding that some folks don't follow GKC as closely as I do, but if you've read through the archives there's just no WAY you haven't noticed yet that Annie has a cut on her face when she's ethereal! Yet there is an "gosh golly, there's a cut on her face!" comment nearly every time. -_-;;;
I swear some people comment to Tom without ever reading the archives.

[jon77]

Aug 26, 2009 13:07:05 GMT chiparoo said:

I think I'm just content to facepalm and make fun of the people who ask stupid questions, instead of really analyzing why.
Good lord, I try to be understanding that some folks don't follow GKC as closely as I do, but if you've read through the archives there's just no WAY you haven't noticed yet that Annie has a cut on her face when she's ethereal! Yet there is an "gosh golly, there's a cut on her face!" comment nearly every time. -_-;;;
I swear some people comment to Tom without ever reading the archives.

Wait is Annie the black-haired girl or the redhead??

[Casey]

chiparoo - yes I was reading over the comments for Monday's page last night, and I was really struck by the number of people that were like "Mystery Solved!" about who the guy in the decon room was in Ch. 6. I thought everyone knew about Bob the Gardener since he re-appeared in Chapter 14... I feel really sorry for the people who do not read this forum, because they miss out on SO much valuable information straight from Tom. And heck, I've had "Bob the Gardener" listed as a role in Ch. 6 on the Gunnerkrigg Court Fan Project forever... it shouldn't have been hard for someone to deduce that, right? *shrug*

[warrl]

Aug 24, 2009 14:43:28 GMT jon77 said:

Speaking of "Too confusing to follow", has anyone here read Robert Jordan's "Wheel of Time" series?

I haven't, but my daughter says it makes a lot more sense once you realize that the world it's set in is the face of a clock. (The old-fashioned analog type.)

but if you've read through the archives there's just no WAY you haven't noticed yet that Annie has a cut on her face when she's ethereal! Yet there is an "gosh golly, there's a cut on her face!" comment nearly every time.

After the second or third time someone asked about it, it became a cliche. It's done deliberately.

[Seth Thresher]

Wait, there's a cut on her face?!

[jon77]

Wait there's a cliche on her face?!

[Mezzaphor]

Wait Annie has a face?!

[judgedeadd]

Wait, there's a comic?!

[Per]

Wait what's this blocky thing in front of me!?

[the bandit]

Helloooooo!

[Mishmash]

Oh lord.

[Yin]

Is this turning into a spam thread? There's only so far we can take a joke, guys.

[pepoluan]

If we have exhausted all vistas of this topic, then it's high time this thread be closed