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Post by todd on Jul 24, 2009 11:31:12 GMT
I've sometimes pointed to the relatively antagonist-less nature of "Gunnerkrigg Court" as one reason why it's not a Harry Potter imitation (despite the surface resemblances). One of the core elements in the Harry Potter series was Voldemort and the menace he posed. There's no true counterpart to Voldemort here; even Ysengrin is more angry (an anger perhaps amplified by the side effects of Coyote's gift to him) than evil.
I think that if Annie does have an antagonist, it's a combination of the pain of her mother's passing and the effects of her unusual childhood (leading to her distrust of adults, unsocial nature, and so on).
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Post by Per on Jul 24, 2009 11:56:49 GMT
The amazing growing flower!
Jack seems likely to walk (run) away from this with a "you're ALL against me! and also freaks" attitude. Hyland with a grudge.
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Post by mochakimono on Jul 24, 2009 12:07:09 GMT
Eeek! D: I was startled. He looks like Ysengrin and that is frightening!
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Post by sanguine on Jul 24, 2009 12:45:09 GMT
Tom never ceases to amaze: That flower added such a ferocity to Renard that I can't even put it into words that would sufficiently express it. Genius.
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Post by Saccha on Jul 24, 2009 12:56:20 GMT
And here comes Reynardine to keep Jack in his place with even more trauma!
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Post by hmmyesquite on Jul 24, 2009 14:06:12 GMT
Eeek! D: I was startled. He looks like Ysengrin and that is frightening! My first reaction was, OH SHIT WHAT IS YSENGRIN DOING HERE and then I saw the flower and was like, damn son.
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Dentrala
Full Member
"I absolutely did not expect thiiiissss!!"
Posts: 156
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Post by Dentrala on Jul 24, 2009 14:13:55 GMT
Reynardine is beautiful.
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Post by Azeltir on Jul 24, 2009 14:16:49 GMT
Oh, that was wonderful. I concur about the "scrolling down surprise" - the last panel is extraordinarily powerful. Anyway. So, yeah, I hope the naysayers will now see that Jack is indeed a danger, in his fear and anger about what was done to him. Goatmon, while I agree that almost anyone would act relatively similar to him in this sort of situation, we have to realize that he's still dangerous, even though he isn't "evil" (whatever that is). Reynardine displayed remarkable judgment over the last few pages, to prepare for Jack crossing the line, and those preparations were not in vain.
Man, all the characters in this comic are so cool.
Ben
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Post by the bandit on Jul 24, 2009 14:54:03 GMT
Tom never ceases to amaze: That flower added such a ferocity to Renard that I can't even put it into words that would sufficiently express it. Genius. Yup. Aside from the entertainment those flowers have been providing in the last several strips, for all of you who have been angsting "But what's up with the flowers for Rey and Annie?" I think the final panel today is answer enough. Totally awesome. But why the same flower for Rey and Annie? Yus, yus, whatever. She owns him.
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Post by Acnorn Landeth on Jul 24, 2009 15:27:13 GMT
This will be so much different if and when Tom releases more books. It's Friday, and now I gotta wait 'til Monday to find out what happens! Every time!
No, Rey will absolutely not try to hurt Jack. I think Rey may have come in too early, actually. Maybe with her training as a medium, Annie could have halted his approach and helped him overcome this problem. Yes, should Jack have laid a hand on Annie, Rey should be coming to the rescue, but there's still time for more character development here! I don't think Jack would have gotten intentionally violent. Maybe hands on her shoulders pressing her against the wall, but no real violence.
Still, way to go Rey, standing up for Annie without her say so.
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Post by pepoluan on Jul 24, 2009 16:02:02 GMT
**squeeeee** ALL HAIL THE BADASS-NESS OF ANGRY!REYNARDINE ;D No, Rey will absolutely not try to hurt Jack. I think Rey may have come in too early, actually. Maybe with her training as a medium, Annie could have halted his approach and helped him overcome this problem. Yes, should Jack have laid a hand on Annie, Rey should be coming to the rescue, but there's still time for more character development here! I don't think Jack would have gotten intentionally violent. Maybe hands on her shoulders pressing her against the wall, but no real violence. Still, way to go Rey, standing up for Annie without her say so. I agree that Rey will most likely not harm Jack. But I disagree that Rey is too early. Look at Annie, she's already extremely distressed. 1st panel - she's already stepping back, trying to maintain her space 2nd panel - she's trying to avoid looking at Jack 3rd panel - Jack's hand is kinda close to grabbing her 4th panel - she tries to look away, and is probably starting to raise her hand to stop Jack Rey's been watching Jack closely (note 1st panel - his head is leaning forward). And just like Tom said, he must've thought, "Alright, young man! That's ENOUGH!" Had Jack grabbed Annie before Rey could act... that would be harrassment AND abuse, and who knows how Annie will be traumatized? I think Rey's playing guardian at this moment, remember his 'interrogation' of Kat in the robot arena? (Someone quick send me a link to that page ) As to Annie's training as a medium... I'm not sure that would've helped. Jack never allowed her a chance to speak, and Annie's already distressed to a point that (I think) she'll just fall into panic. (That said, I can't remember any page where Annie was as distressed as she is now.) Again, I'd like everyone to join me: ALL HAIL THE BADASS-NESS OF ANGRY!REYNARDINE ;D
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Post by Casey on Jul 24, 2009 16:19:05 GMT
Reynardine is doing exactly what dogs do against an unspecified threat to their pack leader.
Someone said Annie can take care of herself... well, yes she threw Willie last year, but that was more of a comical element I think. And yes she pinned Zimmy, but have you ever noticed the size difference between Zimmy and the rest of them? (Ch 19.)
On the other hand I do not think that Jack is evil, nor do I think he intends to be threatening. Jack is Messed Up in the head and isn't thinking straight. He knows not what he does, as they say. Reynardine is giving him a clear, immediate, unambiguous warning to back off.
I actually will go on record to say that the effect will be to snap Jack out of it... maybe even make him break down, as he stops trying to rationalize what he saw and starts to give in to the fact that something completely horrible happened to him. -Then- you will see Annie tell Reynardine to back off, and she'll deal with him in her way. This is my prediction. But I could be wrong.
P.S.: Pepo, I'm pretty sure that what you're seeing in panel 4 is Annie being pressed against the wall. Her expression, and the way she's holding her arms, are those of a person who suddenly feels that they've run out of room behind them.
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Post by penguinfactory on Jul 24, 2009 16:30:28 GMT
I kinda liked the guy but is anyone else as excited as I am for Annie to have a true antagonist? She's had one for ages. His name's Ysengrin. I don't really think I'd consider Ysengrin an antagonist. He's an asshole, sure, but apart from his general dislike of humans he isn't really opposing or trying to harm Annie in any way.
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cantabile
New Member
Never thought I'd be back on a forum...
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Post by cantabile on Jul 24, 2009 16:45:03 GMT
As to Annie's training as a medium... I'm not sure that would've helped. Jack never allowed her a chance to speak, and Annie's already distressed to a point that (I think) she'll just fall into panic. I agree. A medium's diplomacy is only successful when the other party will listen to reason. Since Jack brushed off Annie's attempt to explain Zimmingham, it looks to me like he's more interested in confrontation than he is in finding the truth. Once Rey makes his move, Jack will either come to his senses or run off. Either way, the threat will diminish.
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Post by pepoluan on Jul 24, 2009 16:58:49 GMT
P.S.: Pepo, I'm pretty sure that what you're seeing in panel 4 is Annie being pressed against the wall. Her expression, and the way she's holding her arms, are those of a person who suddenly feels that they've run out of room behind them. She has started to raise her arms in panel 3. In any case, just like you said, it's a girl-vs-crazy-guy situation, and in Rey's eyes it's definitely a double-plus-ungood situation.
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four
New Member
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Post by four on Jul 24, 2009 17:17:38 GMT
"My, what large teeth you have!"
"The better to frighten you away with, my 'dear'."
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Post by duohimura on Jul 24, 2009 17:50:27 GMT
I don't have much to say about the emotional/whatever ramifications of the current situation, except to say that it seems to me that a great number of people both in the story and in the audience are overreacting to it. Jack is coming on too strongly, Annie is freaking out to an undue degree, Reynardine is being his usual overprotective self, and I think generally speaking people are reading into it all too much if they're expecting major ramifications.
At any rate, it -is- a brilliant job of subverting expectations, moving from a conversation about whether Annie has a crush on anyone (and a chapter more or less themed around romantic relationships), to Jack awkwardly trying to ask her a question, to finding out that he's asking about -Zimmy-, to this. Very clever way of building on an idea and then going the complete opposite direction.
Reynardine is fairly frightening there but really a little too bulky for me to be that fond of the design. Personal preference, of course, but he looks sort of like a ball of fur with a head, as opposed to his usually fairly sleek wolf-form. His eyes in that panel own, though.
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Post by Ulysses on Jul 24, 2009 18:02:59 GMT
A couple of things. First - Woah cr_p, Rey is scary-looking here. I don't care about the flower, that makes it even more scary. Second - I'd like to congratulate Tom on being such an awesome artist, being able to draw cutesy characters -and- pant-wettingly scary ones. The fact that they're actually the same character is even better. Third - That's not even a warning growl, that's almost a full-on "I'ma gon' eat you" stance. Plus, check out how huge he is! Not even his normal wolf form is that big. If that's not raising your hackles I don't know what is. Fourth - I'm totally going to audition for Jack in the Project. He's turned into a great character. I think in Monday's strip Jack will either be like "Whatever, I saw scarier stuff than you in the nightmare city", or he'll be reduced to a quivering foetus position, not because of Rey but because he doesn't know what's happening to him.
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Post by pepoluan on Jul 24, 2009 18:04:58 GMT
gyaaaAAAAAH!! Geez, man, I did *not* need that image at 3 o'clock in the morning. No sleep for me tonight! (waaahh... *shiver*) You're not "RedDeering" in the comments, are you? If you're not... geez, why would so many people read GC at 3:00 am?
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Post by Goatmon on Jul 24, 2009 18:24:03 GMT
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Post by The Stranger on Jul 24, 2009 18:32:43 GMT
Orpheus, Gunnerkrigg Court doesn't do "true antagonists," and I don't think you should go looking for them. Annie will probably have antagonists at times, but usually there won't be an absolute antagonist for Annie. Not even Ysengrin does that. He may be diametrically opposed to the Court, but he's not evil, there's a truce with the Court so far, and it isn't Annie's business just yet.
Drutt, I agree with you for the most part, though I don't think he's messed up beyond all repair. And, congratulations on your first post. Welcome to the forums.
Eightyfour, Jack certainly gives the impression that he's not too far off from doing that. If you watch the body language (pepoluan gives a good analysis), you can see. Also, based on what we know so far, It doesn't seem like Rey can do much more than scare Jack. Remember, he needs Annie's permission. The "not ending well potential" actually came from Annie before Rey intervened; I'll explain in greater detail in the next paragraph.
pepoluan, I liked that analysis of the body language you did there. Still, I think you're misunderstanding something. If Jack grabs Annie, I don't think she would be traumatized. Right now, the biggest problem is how he's putting so much pressure on Annie; it's not beyond her to do something drastic to get Jack off of her and I'd say that just then Annie was getting close. If that happens, she's liable to either hurt Jack or to scare him off using magic (maybe by summoning flames). Rey just stepped in before that potential could actualize.
We'll see what happens next.
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Post by King Mir on Jul 24, 2009 18:34:11 GMT
gyaaaAAAAAH!! Geez, man, I did *not* need that image at 3 o'clock in the morning. No sleep for me tonight! (waaahh... *shiver*) You're not "RedDeering" in the comments, are you? If you're not... geez, why would so many people read GC at 3:00 am? It's when GC updates on the eastern timezone.
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Post by pepoluan on Jul 24, 2009 19:02:01 GMT
pepoluan, I liked that analysis of the body language you did there. Still, I think you're misunderstanding something. If Jack grabs Annie, I don't think she would be traumatized. Right now, the biggest problem is how he's putting so much pressure on Annie; it's not beyond her to do something drastic to get Jack off of her and I'd say that just then Annie was getting close. If that happens, she's liable to either hurt Jack or to scare him off using magic (maybe by summoning flames). Rey just stepped in before that potential could actualize. Here's my reason why I thought Annie might be traumatized by a grab from Jack: Annie watched how Jack gradually but quite quickly descend from a friendly state into this... uh, highly-disturbed state. It's quite terrifying to one's psyche to see someone you originally think was quite normal to suddenly degrade into a manic personality. She's been wary since [594: last panel]. To compound this, Annie first got to know Jack as a friend. Now he's a threatening friend. That said, I'm not a psychologist . But I imagine myself in her shoes, and if I experienced that, I most likely will be traumatized. It's when GC updates on the eastern timezone. Ahaha... I see. Looking for a chance to be a discussion thread creator? .
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Post by Casey on Jul 24, 2009 19:13:56 GMT
Pepo, Annie noticed there was something wrong with Jack almost immediately. He did not shift from being a friendly guy to being a haunted one. He shifted from being a haunted guy trying really hard to look normal and failing miserably, to a haunted guy who isn't even trying to look normal anymore. Annie detected he was not himself by the last panel of 593.
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Post by pepoluan on Jul 24, 2009 19:37:15 GMT
Pepo, Annie noticed there was something wrong with Jack almost immediately. He did not shift from being a friendly guy to being a haunted one. He shifted from being a haunted guy trying really hard to look normal and failing miserably, to a haunted guy who isn't even trying to look normal anymore. Annie detected he was not himself by the last panel of 593. Except that between [593] and [594:last panel] she managed to smile (to be precise, at [594:3]) So I'd say that in [593] Annie's concerned about Jack (he looked ghastly, unhealthy, etc etc etc), but in [594:last] she's outright wary of Jack. Notice the motion lines in [594:last]. Of course, I might also be wrong
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Post by pepoluan on Jul 24, 2009 19:39:53 GMT
Anyways, I really like it that Annie's lately far more expressive with her face than in the early chapters Anyone noticed that, too?
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Post by Casey on Jul 24, 2009 19:40:51 GMT
I have an explanation for that. In fact I went ahead and wrote out my step by step analysis of the entire exchange. Pg 593 Jack: Carver, hey! Annie: (Oh, it's Jack, from the night at the power station! Reynardine had better not interfere... *push*) Hello, Jack. Jack: Hey, how's it going? (still far away) Annie: Fine, thank you. (Jack gets closer.) Jack: (Making wiggy, not normal expressions) Great, great. Annie: (Immediately noticing Jack is "off") Is everything okay? Pg 594 Jack has already approached Annie to the point that he is standing where Annie was at the beginning (see the line of the corner just behind him) and Reynardine is to his right and low, unseen. Annie has stepped backwards away from the corner into the middle of the hall. Jack: Yeahhh... Listen. (Tries really hard to look as normal as possible, smiling, not realizing he looks feral and his eyebrows are wonky) That friend of yours [...] the one with the black hair. Annie: (Momentarily excited for her best friend, thinking that she has a boy interested in her) You mean Kat? Jack: (quick and easy annoyance as an indicator of his impatience with not being understood; a sign of his internal struggle with trying to understand and rationalize what he saw) No no... The other one. [...] Annie: (deflated for Kat and on guard again after Jack's curtness) Oh... you mean Zimmy. Jack: (trying again to act normal, and just coming off as creepy) Zimmy, that's right, yeah... Zimmy. (Changes demeanor as he is now able to focus on getting answers, now that he believes Annie has answers) What class is she in? Annie: (immediately noticing the dropping of the facade and backing up further) Chester, I think... Jack: (says a bunch of pressing stuff, having stopped even trying to pretend to be nice, and continues to advance on Annie) Annie: (looks away not because she's afraid or trying to avoid eye contact, but because she cares about Zimmy and is honestly trying to explain her friend) I don't know how to explain it, Jack... Zimmy- (Important to notice Annie's eyebrow here. She's not afraid of Jack. She's thinking about Zimmy wistfully, feeling bad for her.) Jack: (interrupts Annie, again with the impatience of someone who is trying to deal with inner turmoil. Asks another barrage of questions, not waiting for answers but just needing to get the questions out because he's had no one to talk to about this and it's been haunting him since that night) Annie: (looks over her shoulder at contacting the wall, with a look of -annoyance- rather than fear, like, 'bloke just pushed me against the wall, is he really doing this?' Note how similar her expression looks to the expression she takes when she faced down the fire... yeah I really don't think after that incident, she's afraid of a pushy haunted dude) Jack: (really pushy! Right now!) Reynardine: Rawr, dude!
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Post by Jiminiminy on Jul 24, 2009 19:43:42 GMT
Anyways, I really like it that Annie's lately far more expressive with her face than in the early chapters Anyone noticed that, too? I think that she kind of 'learned to feel' again in Chapter Six. I suppose that she traded off the good emotions so as not to feel the bad ones, but after she had a good cry, there wasn't any need to surpress emotion anymore.
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tictoc
New Member
1000 eyes and counting
Posts: 40
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Post by tictoc on Jul 24, 2009 20:46:07 GMT
not only that, but Rey did too.. look how fast he exits around Annie's back in 593 and the expression on his face in panel 4
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Post by King Mir on Jul 24, 2009 21:11:51 GMT
I don't think Rey did the Best thing here, but I like that his response is totally in character of being protective of Annie.
For Annie, the best thing would be to stare silently at jack until he gets a hold of himself.
For Rey, the best thing would be to somehow convey a strong, sobering warning. Currently he's doing more to scare then to warn.
For Jack, the best thing would be to get a hold of himself.
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