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Post by Rasselas on Apr 20, 2009 13:12:38 GMT
I say the Court is going to blast Bonsaiwolf... and take a little part and plant it in the weird room... maybe it's the same tree that Kat and Annie were back then in chapter I-don't-remember Mr. Cherrydoggie??!
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Post by Casey on Apr 20, 2009 13:32:07 GMT
All speculation aside... This is clearly a dogwood tree.
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preus
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Post by preus on Apr 20, 2009 13:35:25 GMT
Ysengrin was an ordinary-looking wolf spirit who was given a tree body by Coyote, not a wolf made of trees that was turned humanoid and given a regular wolfie's head. I don't get why everyone thinks every new character who shows up has to be someone else with a makeover. Ysengrim gave himself the tree body, Coyote gave him power over the trees of Gillitie. Given that Ysengrim is a wolf with power over trees and this is a wolf made of trees I don't it's much of a stretch to assume there is some connection, whether this is Ysengrim or just being controlled by him. But Ysengrin did not have power over trees at this point. Or if he did, he never let the Court know that. Why else would the Headmaster be surprised? Page 282: "You should admire this body Lord Coyote has gifted me with, Renard. Now the very trees of Gillite are under my command!" Ergo, being made of tree and having power over trees came at the same time and from the same source: Coyote. EDIT: It occured to me that it's possible that is Ysengrin, but no one at the Court finds that out. It remains a mystery until 30 odd years later.
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Post by kurtmanjp on Apr 20, 2009 13:36:51 GMT
I'm pretty sure that thing has some connection with Ysengrin or Coyote.
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Post by Scheherazade on Apr 20, 2009 13:57:29 GMT
Or, will we see Surma's budding mediation talents in action? I hadn't thought of that... if it is Ysengrin, or if either he or Coyote are watching this, then this could be when Surma is invited to the Forest for the first time, leading her to meet Reynardine.
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mjh
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Post by mjh on Apr 20, 2009 14:08:49 GMT
Given that Ysengrim is a wolf with power over trees and this is a wolf made of trees I don't it's much of a stretch to assume there is some connection, whether this is Ysengrim or just being controlled by him. Yeah, but Ysengrin getting this power bestowed on him was a comparatively recent event that must have happened during the years when there was no medium and there were no official meetings between the people from the Forest and the Court, i.e. from the time Surma left the Court (probably around the time Antimony was born, or after marrying Carver) until the beginning of chapter 14. Neither was Coyote aware of Surma marrying Carver, her giving birth to Annie, and her eventual death, nor did the Court (and Reynardine!) know about Ysengrin’s latest body modifications. if it is Ysengrin, or if either he or Coyote are watching this, then this could be when Surma is invited to the Forest for the first time, leading her to meet Reynardine. I think that’s quite likely – at the very least, I expect Surma to show her skills as a medium on this occasion.
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audacity
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Post by audacity on Apr 20, 2009 14:13:25 GMT
The tree-dog isn't Ysengrin. It's either the trees of the forest being commanded by Ysengrin (which is the whole point of Ysengrin being part tree, to give him power over the trees of the forest—see here and here) or something new entirely. It is also not Reynardine, because nothing in the story thus far has given us reason to believe that possessing or controlling trees is something he can do. I agree with the people who believe that Reynardine may be about to meet Surma soon. I doubt very much that they have already met, as Surma seems much older in Coyote's story of them here and Tom has already stated that this is Surma et al's first year at Gunnerkrigg.
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audacity
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Post by audacity on Apr 20, 2009 14:18:21 GMT
Given that Ysengrim is a wolf with power over trees and this is a wolf made of trees I don't it's much of a stretch to assume there is some connection, whether this is Ysengrim or just being controlled by him. Yeah, but Ysengrin getting this power bestowed on him was a comparatively recent event that must have happened during the years when there was no medium and there were no official meetings between the people from the Forest and the Court, i.e. from the time Surma left the Court (probably around the time Antimony was born, or after marrying Carver) until the beginning of chapter 14. Neither was Coyote aware of Surma marrying Carver, her giving birth to Annie, and her eventual death, nor did the Court (and Reynardine!) know about Ysengrin’s latest body modifications. if it is Ysengrin, or if either he or Coyote are watching this, then this could be when Surma is invited to the Forest for the first time, leading her to meet Reynardine. I think that’s quite likely – at the very least, I expect Surma to show her skills as a medium on this occasion. For everyone citing the headmaster's surprise at Ysengrin's state in Antimony's time as a reason for why this can't be something involving Ysengrin in Surma's time, it seems to me that the headmaster was surprised at Ysengrin's APPPEARANCE, not his abilities. It's possible that he has had the ability to command the trees for quite some time, and his body is becoming INCREASINGLY tree-like as time goes on. So this could be his doing. However, we know already that the power Coyote gave Reynardine is a power he himself had. I think we can assume the same to be true for the power he gave to Ysengrin. So, I think it's pretty likely that it is COYOTE controlling these trees. Anybody else think so?
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audacity
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Post by audacity on Apr 20, 2009 14:19:13 GMT
All speculation aside... This is clearly a dogwood tree. Hahaha! Agreed. =)
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mjh
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Post by mjh on Apr 20, 2009 14:22:12 GMT
It is also not Reynardine, because nothing in the story thus far has given us reason to believe that possessing or controlling trees is something he can do. Moreover, Coyote has told us how Reynardine had made a point not alienating himself from the Court people. Reynardine only fell into disgrace at the Court after killing “that boy” (after falling in love with Surma – not that likely just now when she is still a kid).
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Post by Scheherazade on Apr 20, 2009 14:23:41 GMT
Dogwood tree... Classic.
I personally think that it's most likely Ysengrin, (although it still could be Coyote... Who can tell what Tom's going to give us?) but I fail to see how anyone could think that it's Renardine.
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audacity
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Post by audacity on Apr 20, 2009 14:26:54 GMT
Given that Ysengrim is a wolf with power over trees and this is a wolf made of trees I don't it's much of a stretch to assume there is some connection, whether this is Ysengrim or just being controlled by him. Yeah, but Ysengrin getting this power bestowed on him was a comparatively recent event that must have happened during the years when there was no medium and there were no official meetings between the people from the Forest and the Court, i.e. from the time Surma left the Court (probably around the time Antimony was born, or after marrying Carver) until the beginning of chapter 14. Neither was Coyote aware of Surma marrying Carver, her giving birth to Annie, and her eventual death, nor did the Court (and Reynardine!) know about Ysengrin’s latest body modifications. Oh! Also, about this statement. Not only was the Court out of official contact with the Forest, but the people at the court were also out of contact with Surma, according to Tom. So even if the Court did have dealings with the Forest on any level after Surma left, Coyote may not ever have found out anything about her fate. For all we know, keeping her life a secret from Coyote and/or Reynardine could be one of the reasons she did not keep in contact with the Court. We still don't know the reasons for Surma's not keeping contact with her friends, or why she married Anthony, or even why Antimony was sent to Gunnerkrigg after her mother's death (or how this tipped off Reynard to the fact that Surma had died). There's so much we don't know!
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Post by fuzzyone on Apr 20, 2009 14:31:31 GMT
I never made any indication that I thought this creature was Reynardine in any way, shape, form, or fashion. The Shaky lines around the legs of the Bonsaiwolf Are a dead giveaway, to me. I hadn't noticed them until Coyote pointed out how Ysengrin shakes in Coyote stories. I went back and read, and saw all the shaky lines around him in Fangs of Summertime. Unless he's performing a quick action, like his attack, Ysengrin shakes like an old man. The Bonsaiwolf's legs are clearly shaking. Now this is either Ysengrin wrapped in tree, or something he's controlling from afar. My statement about the possibility of the first interaction between Surma and Reynard is simply that it's Surma as a young girl, and we've just seen Something that can be linked directly to one of the other Dog-creatures we already know. Surma has to meet them at some point... Why not when she's at her most similar to current Annie?
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mjh
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Post by mjh on Apr 20, 2009 14:34:42 GMT
it seems to me that the headmaster was surprised at Ysengrin's APPPEARANCE, not his abilities. It's possible that he has had the ability to command the trees for quite some time, and his body is becoming INCREASINGLY tree-like as time goes on. So this could be his doing. That’s certainly a possibility. Indeed the headmaster was wondering about Ysengrin’s appearance rather than his powers – after all he didn’t know about those until Ysengrin told him. But still, the talk on occasion of that meeting was about Ysengrin’s new appearance and his new powers almost interchangably. In fact, Ysengrin made the connection himself: “You should admire this body Lord Coyote has gifted me with, Renard. Now the very trees of Gillitie are under my command!” This seems to imply that only by Coyote turning him into a tree wolf did Ysengrin get his powers over trees. However, we know already that the power Coyote gave Reynardine is a power he himself had. I think we can assume the same to be true for the power he gave to Ysengrin. So, I think it's pretty likely that it is COYOTE controlling these trees. Anybody else think so? It sure seems likely, yes.
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Post by nikita on Apr 20, 2009 14:34:50 GMT
Oh look: it's a Bonsaiwolf. You don't see many of those nowadays...must be the acid rain. No! Blaming acid rain isn't what we do nowadays! There are currently only two allowed causes for anything: 1. the financial crisis 2. global warming
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Post by Ulysses on Apr 20, 2009 15:32:04 GMT
Oh look: it's a Bonsaiwolf. You don't see many of those nowadays...must be the acid rain. No! Blaming acid rain isn't what we do nowadays! There are currently only two allowed causes for anything: 1. the financial crisis 2. global warming I agree. Acid rain is so '90s. Ysengrim's statement that "Now the very trees of Gillitie are under my control!" is making me question my theory. The emphasis on "now" makes it seem like Ysengrim was only given that power fairly recently, as people have pointed out. It has also been mentioned that this might be one of the other "powerful dog creatures" Coyote mentions - I quite like this theory, I'd enjoy it if this was true. I don't think the shaking proves anything, it had just landed after jumping through two windows in a SINGLE BOUND. The shake lines are probably just the vibration of it landing.
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Post by chiparoo on Apr 20, 2009 15:51:13 GMT
However, we know already that the power Coyote gave Reynardine is a power he himself had. I think we can assume the same to be true for the power he gave to Ysengrin. So, I think it's pretty likely that it is COYOTE controlling these trees. Anybody else think so? Agreed, here! I've had doubts that this is Ysengrin, and this explanation makes the most sense to me. Of course, it's Coyote! (also- the fact that people's gut reactions are that it's Reynardine make me balk a little- what a silly conclusion!) I was initially a little disappointed that this wasn't Sivo, but now it somehow involves Coyote/Ysengrin/Reynardine, and that's even more exciting. It would be really cool if we got to see Reynardine before coyote's 'gift'!
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Chrome
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Post by Chrome on Apr 20, 2009 16:01:16 GMT
Has anyone considered the possibility of a remote-controlled sort of monster?
Its quivering would fit Ys, so why not have him remotely controlling a tree he shaped into a wolf? It'd be a much more practical explanation, doesn't immediately implicate the Wood any more than "Oh shit, what's it doing here?!" on the Court's part, and leaves out the major Renard-Ysengrim rivalry to have happened in earlier times. This doesn't have to be a major incident in history.
I always felt like that rivalty thing was of a more mythical bent - as if it happened ages ago and continues to this day.
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Post by uskuri on Apr 20, 2009 16:27:04 GMT
Personally I agree with people who think its more of a remotely controlled scout, and I wouldn't be surprised if we saw more. Ysengrin is probably the one behind it (although the comic has a tendency to spring surprises on us, I think things are going to have to start making sense to some extent). What he wants, however, is another question, as it doesn't seem to just be destroying things wherever it feels like it. Bonsaiwolf seems to have a target in mind.
Nothing has suggested a timeline in which Ysengrin has been given his powers before- only when he adopts the more humanlike body.
I anticipate a visit from Reynardine as well (although this is more just wildly hoping). Seeing how different he acts in his fox form would be really interesting. Although he doesn't seem to fit the part as much these days, Reynardine was originally a trickster like Coyote, correct?
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Post by sandjosieph on Apr 20, 2009 17:43:34 GMT
Wait, so they were on a skywalk?
And I don't thinks it's Rey. How could he possess the thing when it's got no eyes?
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Post by drbubbles on Apr 20, 2009 17:49:21 GMT
Ysengrin has twice been addressed as "General," in #272 and #483. The obvious inference is that he headed an army of some sort. I have no evidence that Dogwood there is part of anyone's army of anything, but it seems at least as likely as its being Coyote or Ysengrin. Something to keep in mind at least.
As to its being remotely controlled, I think back to Robot's wooden arm in the Bridge Incident, and I wonder if Dogwood might be a Gillitie Wood version of a robot: an autonomous example of strictly etheric 'technology.'
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Post by Casey on Apr 20, 2009 18:11:41 GMT
Something that I think is easy to overlook:
What reason would Gillitie Wood have to attack the Court?
It therefore seems more likely to me that this is something the Court created, trying once again to master the etheric without really understanding it, and it got out of their control.
Of course, more might be revealed this week that would establish a reason for the Wood to be attacking the Court. But from my perspective, it seemed to me that the two sides had agreed to live and let live, until Ysengrin looked upon Robot crossing the bridge as an attack. And even then, their response seemed to be to confer about it and play the political game (Ch. 14) rather than retaliate with an attack of their own.
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Post by uskuri on Apr 20, 2009 18:39:50 GMT
I don't see why people think that Coyote might be behind this. Hes never shown any signs of malevolence, and doesn't seem like the kind of person who would attack the court for no reason. However, I guess we also have no way of knowing whether or not this attack was provoked or not, and if the forest was attacked I can imagine Coyote retaliating.
The only conclusion I can reach is that we don't have enough information, and I hate that conclusion so bad!
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Post by drbubbles on Apr 20, 2009 19:09:44 GMT
...Ysengrin looked upon Robot crossing the bridge as an attack. And even then, their response seemed to be to confer about it and play the political game (Ch. 14) rather than retaliate with an attack of their own. I would argue that Ysengrin did not view Robot's crossing the bridge (I assume you mean when he returned Shadow 2 to the Wood, in Ch. 1) as an attack. Rather, it appears he saw it as an opportunity (#224 & 225). By contrast, at least some in the Court interpret the Wood's involvement in Robot's return in the Bridge Incident as an actual attack (#277). If one believes Ysengrin, it was the subsequent growth of the Tic Toc into the cliff face that induced Ysengrin and Coyote to visit to the Court (#278). Apparently, though, Ysengrin actually saw the Tic Toc as another opportunity rather than as an attack (#322). It appears he used the Tic Toc to create a pretext to enter the Court and drop seeds (#284 & 288), something the Court interpreted as an actual attack (#288). So it appears that the Wood are doing rather more than just playing the political game. ( Edited because apparently "Preview" means "Post" in Proboard Land).
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Post by Casey on Apr 20, 2009 20:07:07 GMT
You have a good point, in that the dropping of the seeds could be construed as an attack. Still, I would say that the dropping of the seeds--a surreptitious and clandestine move--is a far cry from sending a dogwood crashing into the Court premises... which still leaves me to wonder if the Wood is behind this.
Edit: leaves me to wonder if the Wood is not behind this, I guess I should say.
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Post by Babble-jargon Bill on Apr 20, 2009 21:04:11 GMT
Personally I think the creature may be some crazy Court experiment that got loose. It's possible that it's something that was grown in the Cherry Vault, and grew too fast for anyone to stop it. Maybe this is what happens when you plant a seed from Gillitie into the soil, the cherry tree could be something similar to this only modified so that it doesn't go feral. Robot's hand would be another experiment like this.
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Post by fjodor on Apr 20, 2009 21:30:44 GMT
No! Blaming acid rain isn't what we do nowadays! There are currently only two allowed causes for anything: 1. the financial crisis 2. global warming I agree. Acid rain is so '90s. But this is a flashback chapter! :-) I was thinking of the large animal holding cells, there are more than one. This is probably where Bonsaiwolf escaped from. And Coyote said the Court was trying to become god. Well, as Coyote IS a god, it would make sense for the Court's scientists to try to copy his powers.
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Post by todd on Apr 20, 2009 22:18:20 GMT
I always felt like that rivalty thing was of a more mythical bent - as if it happened ages ago and continues to this day. In the medieval "Roman de Renard", Reynard the Fox (Reynardine's original self, before he left his fox-body for good) and Ysengrin *are* enemies, so I think it likely that their rivalry would indeed be age-old.
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Post by tyler on Apr 20, 2009 22:28:58 GMT
I would think and agree with those who've already speculated so that the Dogwood is a court project of some sort and not an attack from outside. The robots are declaring that there is a situation, not that there is an attack. While "currently a situation" is a fun jab at the sort of down-playing secret events get, it wouldn't make as much sense if the court were being attacked.
In an attack situation, there are enemies arriving and the children would be at considerably more risk than if there were simply a rampaging Dogwood. We don't see a mouth so we don't even know if the creature is a threat to the children or not. While breaking through the windows was certainly dangerous and frightening to them, I don't believe that that was meant to be any sort of attack as opposed to the actions of a frightened animal. The robots appear to be under the skybridge, which means that it may have done that to avoid them.
Further pages will clarify, I'm sure.
If it is from outside, then I'm leaning towards Coyote, because while he's crashing through windows we haven't seen him actually hurt anyone. Coyote is a trickster, but not all tricks are painless nor are they necessarily something that wouldn't scare you.
Now, if it runs into a cafeteria or kitchen and starts building enormous sandwiches, we have a DAGwood, which is a whole other problem.
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Post by Per on Apr 20, 2009 23:42:56 GMT
I could be wrong, but I seem to remember that Tom confirmed that Ysengrin's wolf body is intact and encased within his wooden "power armour". I doubt that at some point he turned completely into wood, but who knows.
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