|
Post by Uglyhead on Mar 4, 2009 17:36:54 GMT
So the Guides apparently disapprove of Jeanne being left down there on her own for so long. Either that, or she's standing in the way of something. It can't be just because she's a ghost who hasn't quite moved on, because Muut hasn't tried to drag Mort away or anything.
|
|
|
Post by agasa on Mar 4, 2009 18:04:44 GMT
I think the word is "time". have you not noticed that Muut says it both frames, as the last word? definitely something, sure.
|
|
|
Post by fjodor on Mar 4, 2009 18:21:40 GMT
I guess 'helping' is the psychopomps' core business. If they cannot guide a soul, that's like a professional failure for them. My money's on 'waiting' however. Followed closely by 'alone'.
As for Annie being irritated, I think she dislikes the thought of being a tool in a bigger plan. She wants to have full control over her actions.
|
|
mjh
Full Member
Posts: 179
|
Post by mjh on Mar 4, 2009 19:04:22 GMT
So the Guides apparently disapprove of Jeanne being left down there on her own for so long. Either that, or she's standing in the way of something. It can't be just because she's a ghost who hasn't quite moved on, because Muut hasn't tried to drag Mort away or anything. There appear to be different kinds of ghosts in the Gunnerverse. Mort is like a professional ghost who’s got a job haunting that particular floor of the Court. All the help he needed was the one Annie already provided, namely help in getting a better, more frightening ghost. On the other hand, there are ‘stuck’ souls such as Martin – Martin was supposed to move on and eventually join his parents, not haunt the hospital floors indefinitely. Jeanne seems to be more like Martin, but so far beyond the reach of the psychopomps, for whatever reason.
|
|
zoe
New Member
Posts: 21
|
Post by zoe on Mar 4, 2009 19:38:32 GMT
I was just remembering how the robots were hastening to see Jeanne's painting at the beginning of the chapter - neat little bit of chapter coherence, that.
|
|
|
Post by fjodor on Mar 4, 2009 21:30:22 GMT
There appear to be different kinds of ghosts in the Gunnerverse. Mort is like a professional ghost who’s got a job haunting that particular floor of the Court. All the help he needed was the one Annie already provided, namely help in getting a better, more frightening ghost. Actually, I am starting to wonder if Mort used to be a living being at all.
|
|
|
Post by todd on Mar 4, 2009 23:29:21 GMT
I've also sometimes wondered if Mort might be more a member of an etheric species that simply gets mistaken for ghosts.
I think that Tom was joking about the "one word more important than the others", referring to the word he'd placed in bold. Almost all of the comments at the bottom of the page are light-hearted ones, in any case. (Remember the infamous "monster trucks and electric guitars" one that practically upstaged everything in Chapter Fourteen?)
|
|
|
Post by omegax123 on Mar 5, 2009 0:36:52 GMT
I've also sometimes wondered if Mort might be more a member of an etheric species that simply gets mistaken for ghosts. That might make sense, actually... I think that Tom was joking about the "one word more important than the others", referring to the word he'd placed in bold. Almost all of the comments at the bottom of the page are light-hearted ones, in any case. (Remember the infamous "monster trucks and electric guitars" one that practically upstaged everything in Chapter Fourteen?) That, on the other hand... We all (or most of us) know that 'you' is bolded for emphasis, because in that font, italics would be nearly unreadable and look funny anyway. 'Important' and 'emphasized' are not interchangeable, even in a 'lighthearted' sense.
|
|
Miri
Full Member
Posts: 211
|
Post by Miri on Mar 5, 2009 0:41:43 GMT
I think that Tom was joking about the "one word more important than the others", referring to the word he'd placed in bold. Almost all of the comments at the bottom of the page are light-hearted ones, in any case. (Remember the infamous "monster trucks and electric guitars" one that practically upstaged everything in Chapter Fourteen?) Yep, me too. Although with this kind of response, I have to wonder if a few more of us are crossovers from the Order of the Stick fandom than I thought, given the Four Words Drama that just went down...XD Back to Jeanne! I love Jeanne. The next time my cosplay slate clears up, I might attempt Jeanne. Also, Muut's speech bubbles match Jeanne, which is kind of neat (in a I'm Hoping It's Symbolic But It's Almost Definitely Not kind of way).
|
|
|
Post by UbiquitousDragon on Mar 5, 2009 0:52:45 GMT
Hang on, this implies Mutt know Jeanne could cross the Annan Waters. He lied to Annie, she thought she was safe.
|
|
|
Post by UbiquitousDragon on Mar 5, 2009 0:57:26 GMT
I also think the word is "waiting". He must've given her the blinker stone so that Jeanne would be able to cross. The psychopomps don’t know anything about Jeanne; Muut admitted as much. When he had said she couldn’t cross the river, he could simply have been mistaken; even a psychopomp may be wrong sometimes. Oops, should've read the rest of the thread first. Sorry, guys.
|
|
|
Post by warrl on Mar 5, 2009 1:00:01 GMT
Hang on, this implies Mutt know Jeanne could cross the Annan Waters. He lied to Annie, she thought she was safe. Does Muut know that Jeanne crossed the waters? Maybe he really thought she couldn't. He's admitting a rather gaping hole in his knowledge of the apparently-dead.
|
|
|
Post by Tierra Y Libertad on Mar 5, 2009 1:24:21 GMT
Not even the guides knows who she is? That sound highly unusual. Speculation: Yeanne is/was a robot bult by that Diego, one so sofisticated that developed a soul (and hence could become a ghost), but not being a human (or a insect, or what else) the guides have no jurisdiction or even a "documentation" on it. For them it is like she just sprung out of nothingness. maybe that is why she can pass the Annan waters? Because she is something new? Jeanne was never a robot. Look at comics 430+ in the chapter S1. Reynardine might not always be right, but he might've been around during the events that occured to create the shrine. The fantastic rigged bullfight also implies a fantasy of superhuman ability to fight iniquity. The bull might represent anything that could possibly harm the lust object of a nerd, e.g. TB, like in LA TRAVIATA. Or perhaps, drawing clues from the portrait of Diego, he might have been a bullfighter, but was unable to slay the thing that killed Jeanne.
|
|
mjh
Full Member
Posts: 179
|
Post by mjh on Mar 5, 2009 1:25:56 GMT
Does Muut know that Jeanne crossed the waters? Maybe he really thought she couldn't. He's admitting a rather gaping hole in his knowledge of the apparently-dead. He is neither all-knowing nor all-powerful, that much is obvious. And in his job, he doesn’t need to be, especially since he is not supposed to meddle in the affairs of the living. And Jeanne is, to quote Tom, a special case. As far as Jeanne crossing the Annan waters is concerned, I suppose Muut just took it for granted that she couldn’t. After all, that the divide between Gillitie Forest and Gunnerkrigg Court could not be crossed, be it by humans or etherical beings, was its raison d’être.
|
|
Neats
New Member
Posts: 38
|
Post by Neats on Mar 5, 2009 2:55:09 GMT
Remember this dialogue from the closing pages of chapter 16? “Kat: This kinda reminds me of the ghost with the sword you met at the Annan waters. Annie: Oh? Kat: Yeah, you said your psychopomp friends couldn’t help her, right? So what if she’s stuck too? Annie: If that’s the case then she might not even know why she is down there. Kat: And she’s probably been there a really long time. It’s kinda sad … Annie: I should have tried to help her … Instead I was a fool and became scared when I thought she had cut me. I should have faced my fear, as I did with Martin …” And now, after Muut’s gentle reminder, maybe she will follow her own advice. I have the feeling that Annie's etheric cut is not going to heal until she does.
|
|
|
Post by sebastian on Mar 5, 2009 9:36:46 GMT
Not even the guides knows who she is? That sound highly unusual. Speculation: Yeanne is/was a robot bult by that Diego, one so sofisticated that developed a soul (and hence could become a ghost), but not being a human (or a insect, or what else) the guides have no jurisdiction or even a "documentation" on it. For them it is like she just sprung out of nothingness. maybe that is why she can pass the Annan waters? Because she is something new? Jeanne was never a robot. Look at comics 430+ in the chapter S1. Reynardine might not always be right, but he might've been around during the events that occured to create the shrine. The fantastic rigged bullfight also implies a fantasy of superhuman ability to fight iniquity. The bull might represent anything that could possibly harm the lust object of a nerd, e.g. TB, like in LA TRAVIATA. Or perhaps, drawing clues from the portrait of Diego, he might have been a bullfighter, but was unable to slay the thing that killed Jeanne. Oh, I'm probably wrong, Even if there is nothing that openly deny the "she is a robot" theory, yes, Rey call her a woman but if a robot is so sophisticated Rey could not want use the term robot, Also, in the same chapter Kat mention two times human-like robots/androids, foreshadowing? maybe. It would explain a lot of things, why the guides don't know about her, why the robots almost worship her, maybe even why she can cross the Annan Waters, even if this is still open to debate.
|
|
|
Post by blackmantha on Mar 5, 2009 11:30:13 GMT
I have the feeling that Annie's etheric cut is not going to heal until she does. Oh god, I think you might be right. A couple of chapters from now, they find a way to help Jeanne. As she leaves, the cut disappears, and it will never be referred to, or be significant at all.
|
|
|
Post by Azeltir on Mar 5, 2009 14:34:07 GMT
What's this whole "monster trucks and electric guitars" thing? I started reading this comic at Chapter 18: S1, and rereading 15 I saw no comments about either of those ridiculous items.
Ben
|
|
|
Post by UbiquitousDragon on Mar 5, 2009 20:38:18 GMT
Hang on, this implies Mutt know Jeanne could cross the Annan Waters. He lied to Annie, she thought she was safe. Does Muut know that Jeanne crossed the waters? Maybe he really thought she couldn't. He's admitting a rather gaping hole in his knowledge of the apparently-dead. Yeh, that's what I realised after I posted, and therefore an am idiot. But it was my original assumption that that's was why Annie had her angry Annie face.
|
|
Fuin
Junior Member
Posts: 65
|
Post by Fuin on Mar 5, 2009 20:44:58 GMT
Azeltir: I remember that it led to so many "where's the Monster Trucks and Electric Guitars" jokes that Tom removed it.
|
|
|
Post by UbiquitousDragon on Mar 5, 2009 21:08:46 GMT
Azeltir: I remember that it led to so many "where's the Monster Trucks and Electric Guitars" jokes that Tom removed it. Also, some people didn't get the joke.
|
|
|
Post by Azeltir on Mar 5, 2009 21:28:06 GMT
What was the comment like? Whereabouts in the story was it? I feel like I missed out on something awesome.
Ben
|
|
Fuin
Junior Member
Posts: 65
|
Post by Fuin on Mar 5, 2009 22:08:50 GMT
As you see in the quote I posted, it was in #258. The very end of chapter 13. As for the comment, it was "in the next chapter: monster trucks and rockin' 'letrical guitars", or something like that. Can't remember exactly how it was. (But yes, you have missed something filled with AWESOME. It is now a part of the mythos of the Gunnerkrigg Court Forum.) Is there someone who remembers more exactly how it went?
|
|
Tanya
Junior Member
work in progress
Posts: 63
|
Post by Tanya on Mar 6, 2009 5:45:08 GMT
Does Muut know that Jeanne crossed the waters? Maybe he really thought she couldn't. He's admitting a rather gaping hole in his knowledge of the apparently-dead. Yeh, that's what I realised after I posted, and therefore an am idiot. But it was my original assumption that that's was why Annie had her angry Annie face. I think there is truth in your original statement, since back at the river Muut told Annie she should be thankful Jeane cannot cross the water, therefore implying that she is probably dangerous to Annie. And now he is admitting that he had employed Annie as a means to help this possibly dangerous ghost. Also, I am thinking of a metaphorical link between the Annan river and the Mythical uncrossable Sambatyon River. It comes out of Eden (the "etheric" realm) and serves a barrier for lost souls, or the lost tribes, cannot cross until the end of time. www.answers.com/topic/sambatyon
|
|
|
Post by Freederick on Mar 6, 2009 11:38:39 GMT
"Since when do you bend the rules?"
Annie is being sarcastic here; my guess is that she is bitter because Muut refused to bend the rules when Surma was passing away. What she means is something along the lines of: "Oh, so when it was my mum dying, you were all regulation; now when you want something, suddenly the rules are not so important?"
Notice how he squirms in panel 2--for a poker-face like Muut, that shifting of the eyes speaks volumes.
|
|
|
Post by Per on Mar 6, 2009 18:30:17 GMT
My first thought was that the significant word is "very" - if it's "very" long as the psychopomps view time, then maybe either this implies it's not Jeanne, or that Jeanne/Diego are a lot further back in time than scientists generally believe. (Or that Jeanne was THROWNE BACK IN TIEM by a FREEK TIME MACHINE ACCEDENT and has been FOREVAR WEITING TO KETCHUP with the rest of us!!!11!gosh golly)
I agree it could also be "powerless" - maybe this has something to do with "trying to become god" and in the process (in the rare event that it goes anywhere) sidestepping the natural order of psychopompiness.
Or it could very well be a joke.
|
|