[2959] "From what?"

[imaginaryfriend]

If the Court, or that select part, wants to trek to their really-real new world, why not let them?

...as long as that's not doing anything irreversibly bad to Zeta, of course. She's already stuck and we haven't seen any evidence that she's in any particular distress. Additionally, there might be a chance to help Lana as long as the distortion is still going.

[arf]

I've no problem with the Court's departure. They're a curious lot, and their 'help' appears to come with a few strings. Not everybody's keen (Not just Annie, either. It's interesting to note that, apart from Kat, none of Annie's immediate circle have been invited to go 'away')

However, the distortion does have to be dealt with. Meg's just one person too, whereas we are talking 4, 5 or more entanglements.*

* Zimmy, Gamma, Lana, Coyote, Jerrek/Loup/Ysengrin (Do we consider Jerrek a distinct personality at this point?)

[rafk]

It turns out we do have an Omelas story, but it's about Zimmy not Omega. And Omega is totally fine with having a happy society built on the suffering of one child, y'all.

Personally I would like to hear about the countless others Omega says the Court has helped, because I can't say the Court has generally come across to us readers like they are big on helping anyone but themselves, but we also have a limited perspective.

[arf]

It's a sort of inverted Omelas story, where the town is walking away from the child.

[lisanela]

Are the people they helped in the room with us, Meg?

[philman]

Jun 26, 2024 8:11:40 GMT lisanela said:

Are the people they helped in the room with us, Meg?

Literally, yes. This whole chapter's story is about how they have helped Omega greatly

[csj]

half a cookie is better than none

[blahzor]

Okay omega. It's not like Zimmy is Yamcha

[Polyhymnia]

I’m reminded that Annie is a medium, and the forest medium at that; the role involves being able to see from another side’s perspective, and as the forest medium, it’s especially important that Annie can see where the court gets things wrong.
www.gunnerkrigg.com/?p=386

[hoob]

I was concerned about Omega's callous nature before, but I hoped it mostly came from her omniscience.

Omega has to know about Jeanne, right? To see the past, she need but avail herself of the information. To see her share the mindset that weaponized two people's love for the "greater good" places Omega as the personification of the entire court for me. She and her decisions have been seen as gospel for generations of court researchers and functionaries.

The court may have grown from the seed bismuth, but Omega's at the wheel.

[guntherkrieg]

You merely adopted the Court.

[guntherkrieg]

Let's not forget that Zimmy has been emotionally abusing and gaslighting her girlfriend for at least several years, and is a walking psychic Chernobyl.

No great loss.

[silicondream]

Jun 26, 2024 7:27:59 GMT rafk said:

It turns out we do have an Omelas story, but it's about Zimmy not Omega. And Omega is totally fine with having a happy society built on the suffering of one child, y'all.

Personally I would like to hear about the countless others Omega says the Court has helped, because I can't say the Court has generally come across to us readers like they are big on helping anyone but themselves, but we also have a limited perspective.

Well, "themselves" is a very large number of people.  We still don't really know how big the Court is, but it seems to be at least as large as a medium-sized city...could be over a million human inhabitants, though presumably it was much smaller when founded.  We also know they contribute to outside causes, e.g. assisting in Britain's war effort during WWII, and Paz is probably not the only student whose family received housing or other benefits from them.

Even for most people who don't consider themselves utilitarians, numbers still have some moral force.  How many nations haven't had military conscription?  How many nations have never waged a war with heavy civilian casualties?  We generally think it's okay to make somebody suffer and die so that the rest of us can survive and prosper.

And of course, we don't yet know how badly Zimmy's suffering at the moment.  The Star Ocean seemed to be making her symptoms worse before, but who knows what happened when Coyote and Loup entered the mix.

(Come to think of it, if the Star Ocean's currently drawing power from the distortion, and Coyote and Loup are inside...does that mean they might be able to travel the Ocean?  Maybe going to Planet Science will be Coyote's next plan; whether he's annihilated or he screws up the Court's etheric quarantine, either way he'd get something he wants.)

[silicondream]

Jun 26, 2024 9:45:29 GMT guntherkrieg said:

Let's not forget that Zimmy has been emotionally abusing and gaslighting her girlfriend for at least several years, and is a walking psychic Chernobyl.

No great loss.

Said girlfriend is currently stuck at ground zero with her, though.

[pyradonis]

Huh. Lots of us, me included, were taking it for granted that Omega would refuse to help because of her own state of existing, but it seems she wants to be the Court's employee of the month instead. (She's the first character in the comic who said something like "I love the Court.", right?)

But indeed, of course Annie wants to help Zimmy, but I wonder if she would care about the Court's plan if it didn't involve using a living Ether generator.

[pylgrimm]

You too once were "just one person" Omega. It was the compasion of one individual who not only saved you when nobody in the world gave a damn about you, but also tried to ensure that at every step you had the agency and autonomy to make your own chocies even if such allowance was in direct contradiction of the expectations of your precious Court.

I'm sure that if the Court had just one day barged into your hovel and forcefully connect you to their machines with no regards for your suffering, in order to achieve their glorious plan, you'd have a very different position in what "just one person" is.

[laaaa]

Sure, nobody cares about the Court leaving, this isn't the issue, but as I understand the implication here is that Court NEEDS Zimmy's distortion and suffering in her current state because it apparently aids them in their travel. So helping Zimmy IS stopping the Court from leaving.

Theoretically I guess they could wait a couple of hours or days so the Court can leave before aiding Zimmy, but if that's an option Omega should mention it very, VERY soon. If she doesn't mention it, I'm going to go ahead and guess that the Court actually using Zimmy's ether distortion to leave is going to have a nasty side effect on Zimmy.

I'm also worried about Omega's "she needs more than help, I'm afraid" line concerning Zimmy. Like... what more?

[laaaa]

There's something very regal about Omega in the 4th panel

[Sky Schemer]

Jun 26, 2024 7:54:22 GMT arf said:

It's a sort of inverted Omelas story, where the town is walking away from the child.

Not really. It's metaphorical. In Le Guin's story, it's about rejecting Omelas. It just so happens that those who do are walking away from it more or less literally, too. Here, rejecting the Court means not going with them. Omelas is moving rather than staying put.

[puntino]

Annie might want to recall that she's trying to argue the value of a single person to an individual that has literally abdicated their own body (and likely soul) in favor of the Court. Uphill battle should be an understatement.

The question now is more how to have her stop hindering Annie. I don't think she'll just stand idly, given that she's been misdirecting the whole ordeal ever since she took action.

[morrahadesigns]

But how many times has it been "just one person"?

[morrahadesigns]

Jun 26, 2024 9:45:29 GMT guntherkrieg said:

Let's not forget that Zimmy has been emotionally abusing and gaslighting her girlfriend for at least several years, and is a walking psychic Chernobyl.

No great loss.

Hang on, what??

[ctso74]

Is Meg planning on leaving with the Court? Up to this point, I just assumed she was staying.

[baphomet]

Jun 26, 2024 9:45:29 GMT guntherkrieg said:

Let's not forget that Zimmy has been emotionally abusing and gaslighting her girlfriend for at least several years, and is a walking psychic Chernobyl.

No great loss.

Yeah! When someone is persecuted, it's important to inform everyone about their flaws. That way, you don't have to feel anything about all the times that they were denied human dignity.

Zimmy was no angel.

[bicarbonat]

Jun 26, 2024 13:45:14 GMT morrahadesigns said:

But how many times has it been "just one person"?

💯 I'm sure this is the type of rationale that drove the Court's decision to execute/"sacrifice" someone to the Annan Waters.

Best case scenario, Omega's poking at Annie in a semi-Socratic way. She can't see the future any more, but I'll bet she knows the Court's record and Annie's acts in response to that.

Worst case scenario, Omega's gone through the centrifuge of self-abandonment (by choice, spiced with destitution-tinged gratitude) and come all the way round to a weirdly adamantine individuality. Very "I did my time" vibes.

But if her mind changes, it'll be because she made a decision that had nothing to do with prognostication or fate.

[silicondream]

Jun 26, 2024 15:12:33 GMT ctso74 said:

Is Meg planning on leaving with the Court? Up to this point, I just assumed she was staying.

Unless Aata's wrong or lying, I don't think she can leave, since her powers are etheric. That's probably one of the reasons the Court needed to construct an artficial replacement for her.

Jun 26, 2024 15:15:12 GMT baphomet said:

Yeah! When someone is persecuted, it's important to inform everyone about their flaws. That way, you don't have to feel anything about all the times that they were denied human dignity.

Zimmy was no angel.

I heard her and Gamma might have used drugs in Birmingham. At least once. Probably shoplifted and violated the Vagrancy Act, too. *nods*

[Gemminie]

Omega seemed surprised at the end of the previous page, wondering why she would want to get things back to normal, when normal means she has to be a brain in a box just to have some control and keep all of the whole world's information from crashing through her brain at once.

Now it's Annie's turn to be surprised. She says, "We need to stop the Court from –" before being interrupted. Tony is watching from the background and may have some insights later, but he doesn't speak on this particular page. Omega sort of takes control again: she's in favor of the Court and its plan. The Court has helped her and many others.

Annie then seems to get angry. This is all harming Zimmy, and she wants to help. But Omega says that Zimmy's just one person.

Tom's comment: "I love the Court," echoing what Omega says here.

So, we've been talking about LeGuin's "Those Who Walk Away from Omelas" and the Trolley Problem, but here Omega explicitly states it as that exact kind of scenario. But I'm not sure I agree with her. For years the Court has helped many people without turning on the Zimmy/Coyote battery and morphing the whole pocket dimension into a potentially lethal distortion (we've seen that it can be deadly, and we don't know who else may have died out there, but chances are nonzero that Sam isn't the only casualty). The Court has helped people, but not altruistically; it's all been with an ulterior motive, and now they're about to leave Earth and cease helping people, and to do so they have to put Zimmy through hell. They've stopped helping people and started causing harm to one person, and they're not going to start helping people again. They're done with give-and-take; now it's all take.

My question is this: Suppose the Court does go through with their plan and leave Earth. What happens then? The Court won't be helping anyone, including Omega, whom they aren't taking with them, and that leaves Zimmy/Coyote/etc. in their current unstable state. First of all, is Coyote going to just let them go, or is he going to do something crazy and unpredictable? I know which of those options I'm putting my money on. Second, even if the Court does get away, how long does Coyote allow this distortion to continue? Because you'd better believe this is only going on for as long as Coyote wants it to. Sorry, Omega, your little vacation from the machine is over the moment Coyote stops finding it amusing. And Omega can't see when that'll be.

Of course, that also means that Annie doesn't really have to do anything to help Zimmy – it's going to end, and assuming Zimmy's still alive, she'll be free of it. And there's probably nothing Annie can realistically do against the forces at play here anyway, but she wants to try. Zimmy kind of insulted her, which is probably partly what's motivating her to prove she's still Zimmy's friend. Of course, Zimmy still said that Annie's going to kill Loup, and "your friend" (could mean Kat, but that's not 100%) is going to kill Zimmy using Omega. We don't know how correct Zimmy is there, but she's right that "the Court ain't got no device"; Omega turns out to be a person, not a device. I'm still wondering about this. What will Zimmy do that the Court doesn't like? They seemingly like what she's doing right now just fine; they're able to siphon energy off it to power the star ocean. So I'm guessing she means something else that she hasn't done yet (my bet is on polluting their new world with lots of Ether). And that's yet another thing that Omega probably can't see coming.

So Omega may like it right now, but time's ticking. It won't last.

[Gemini Jim]

Maybe I'm reading too much into this, but who is Meg looking at in the fourth panel when she says "I love the Court"?

Because she's not looking at Annie (like she is in the previous panels). She turned her head to look away, like she's avoiding looking the truth in the face.

[laaaa]

Jun 26, 2024 10:54:24 GMT pyradonis said:

Huh. Lots of us, me included, were taking it for granted that Omega would refuse to help because of her own state of existing, but it seems she wants to be the Court's employee of the month instead. (She's the first character in the comic who said something like "I love the Court.", right?)

But indeed, of course Annie wants to help Zimmy, but I wonder if she would care about the Court's plan if it didn't involve using a living Ether generator.

I'm not sure if "employee of the month" is accurate. She's been the main informant of the Court, the one being who could give away information to determine their actions, and she had an agenda. Not a malicious one, but still. If there has ever been a human personification of the Court, it's her.
I see it more as a queen who is quite satisfied with her work achievements and is feeling grateful towards her minions now that it's time for her much awaited retirement. 
Also, I'm wondering if we are meant to sympathise with Omega and her point of view here. Omega seems callous and cold but not cruel nor sadistic. She knows every horrible thing the Court has done, she knows about Zimmy, she knows about Jeanne, she knows about every other skeleton in the Court's closet, and even if she didn't personally direct or facilitate some of those choices, she still is aware of them and deems them acceptable. This means that she knows all the horrible things that have happened, and all the good things, and weights them in the Court's favor.
...Those must be quite a lot of good things.

It really is a trolley problem haha. If you were omniscient and knew you could keep thousands of people safe and alive by torturing one Jeanne, would you do it?
(No)

[laaaa]

Jun 26, 2024 15:52:04 GMT Gemminie said:

Of course, that also means that Annie doesn't really have to do anything to help Zimmy – it's going to end, and assuming Zimmy's still alive, she'll be free of it. And there's probably nothing Annie can realistically do against the forces at play here anyway, but she wants to try. Zimmy kind of insulted her, which is probably partly what's motivating her to prove she's still Zimmy's friend. Of course, Zimmy still said that Annie's going to kill Loup, and "your friend" (could mean Kat, but that's not 100%) is going to kill Zimmy using Omega. We don't know how correct Zimmy is there, but she's right that "the Court ain't got no device"; Omega turns out to be a person, not a device. I'm still wondering about this. What will Zimmy do that the Court doesn't like? They seemingly like what she's doing right now just fine; they're able to siphon energy off it to power the star ocean. So I'm guessing she means something else that she hasn't done yet (my bet is on polluting their new world with lots of Ether). And that's yet another thing that Omega probably can't see coming.

So Omega may like it right now, but time's ticking. It won't last.

EXTREMELY GOOD POINTS. I began re-reading the comic from the second page you linked, and so I was shocked (I had completely forgotten about this) that Kat planned to hack into Onega. I seriously doubt this action wasn't forseen by Omega at all. Kat might currently be playing right into Omega's plans... Or something.

Also amazing that Zimmy knew that Omega wasn't a device. Those couple of panels with Loup and Zimmy going all "...Omega...?" and being shocked become a lot more ominous now. This wasn't just them noticing something called Omega. This seems more like them realizing they are being stalked by a very powerful entity.

I had also completely forgotten about Zimmy believing she can retaliate against the Court.

I LOVE YOUR POST.