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Post by philman on May 17, 2024 7:52:19 GMT
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Post by lisanela on May 17, 2024 8:06:24 GMT
"Yeh I'm gonna *predict* that you do all these things so that one day Zimmy can give me a new body in a wack distortion-"
It is interesting that she sees everything visible to the human eyes and Zimmy sees things no one else can. I'm not too sure they are linked anymore but I wonder why they exist - does it happen when no one is here to take care of the ether properly? Is it random?
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Post by knowit on May 17, 2024 11:07:23 GMT
When I mentioned last thread the possibility that Omega knew what was coming her way and was willing to go through with it, I only meant it as a possibility. I thought it was still likely, considering the Court's track record, that it was forcibly done to her. I just think it's important for people to keep their minds open when reading something, instead of getting bogged down with bias.
With her comment this time though, while still far from confirmed, leads more credence to the idea she wanted what happens to her. It's still possible that the court takes it "Too Far", but at this stage she herself is encouraging Charles to push things further.
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morrahadesigns
Full Member
Skinamarinky dinky-dink. Skinamarinky doo.
Posts: 225
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Post by morrahadesigns on May 17, 2024 13:05:37 GMT
When I mentioned last thread the possibility that Omega knew what was coming her way and was willing to go through with it, I only meant it as a possibility. I thought it was still likely, considering the Court's track record, that it was forcibly done to her. I just think it's important for people to keep their minds open when reading something, instead of getting bogged down with bias. With her comment this time though, while still far from confirmed, leads more credence to the idea she wanted what happens to her. It's still possible that the court takes it "Too Far", but at this stage she herself is encouraging Charles to push things further. It's also possible that she is like Kat. The only difference being that Omega can directly interact with the ether and Kat can't. But this situation is very definitely pushing the boundaries of what is possible as far as connecting modern technology (of their respective times) with their minds. |
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Post by ctso74 on May 17, 2024 13:35:41 GMT
Charles: "...I'm still not sur-"
Omega: *backhands Charles* "I said transhumanism! H+! H+!!!"
Like grandpa used to say, if the lady wants to be a brain in a jar, let her.
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Post by imaginaryfriend on May 17, 2024 14:08:48 GMT
It should go without saying but I'd like to note in passing that this sort of information-gathering (even before adding amplifiers) would be an existential threat to any political organization that can't shield itself using etheric means and that would be the case even without the possibility of Omega remotely manipulating more complex minds. With Omega it's unsurprising the Court got whatever it wanted whenever it wanted with regard to favors, access and funding from governments, even if they didn't know Omega existed.
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Post by guntherkrieg on May 17, 2024 14:30:29 GMT
What we're seeing is, essentially, the emegence of a post-human / post-Singularity consciousness.
She can perceive how to enhance herself, which allows her to envision more enhancements, and so on and so on. A parallel with Kat, to be sure.
For anyone interested in a really good short story about that, check out Ted Chiang's "Understand".
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Post by Gemminie on May 17, 2024 14:54:00 GMT
This page is a single self-contained flashback scene, judging from the presence of the established start-of-sequence and end-of-sequence scrollwork symbols both appearing on it. We're seeing something from later on; it appears that Omega is able to get up and walk around, but she must stay in the building. Omega appears to want to push the experiment farther, but it's Charles who objects, worried that her mind will be harmed by the nature or volume of information she's trying to assimilate. Omega says that Charles' "focusing amplifiers" are working. Apparently the "treatments" she's been undergoing are becoming more and more invasive. Omega doesn't seem to mind, because the alternative was staying where she was, lying in the dirt, controlling animals. She sees this experiment as having changed a curse into an asset, and she's bought into this project.
While we wait to see what the next flashback sequence will tell us, I'm wondering how her ability to control animals is related to her ability to see everything. Before Charles and his experiments, she could barely move or speak with her own body, instead seeing, hearing, and speaking through nearby animals – one crow is all we saw her using, but Charles mentioned that she had other birds. She could apparently cause her voice to emanate from them, but otherwise it's unclear whether she could control their actions. Now, though, with Charles' focusing amplifiers, she can properly move and speak using her own body, but she can now see everything in the past and present; she speaks of accessing information, as if the world is a big database and she can just look things up in it. But is she seeing through people's eyes? Can she cause humans to speak with her voice? Or are we interpreting what she was doing with animals improperly? How are her abilities post "focusing amplifiers" related to her abilities before Charles found her?
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Post by Runningflame on May 17, 2024 14:55:13 GMT
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Post by pyradonis on May 17, 2024 15:02:58 GMT
Hah, came here to say the same. |
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Post by Per on May 17, 2024 15:05:45 GMT
For anyone interested in a really good short story about that, check out Ted Chiang's "Understand". That's a fighting word around here. |
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caber
Junior Member
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Post by caber on May 17, 2024 16:11:00 GMT
Now that we know she was dedicated to this, what must she think of Annie? The little anomaly that threw all of their plans and projections into chaos...
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Post by TBeholder on May 17, 2024 17:26:44 GMT
What we're seeing is, essentially, the emegence of a post-human / post-Singularity consciousness. Define? She can perceive how to enhance herself, which allows her to envision more enhancements, and so on and so on. A parallel with Kat, to be sure. If so, that’s a feedback loop. But she did not demonstrate seeing future or hypothetical event yet. Only “what was”. |
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tibert
Junior Member
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Post by tibert on May 17, 2024 17:50:06 GMT
It should go without saying but I'd like to note in passing that this sort of information-gathering (even before adding amplifiers) would be an existential threat to any political organization that can't shield itself using etheric means and that would be the case even without the possibility of Omega remotely manipulating more complex minds. With Omega it's unsurprising the Court got whatever it wanted whenever it wanted with regard to favors, access and funding from governments, even if they didn't know Omega existed. Which leads to wonder how did the Court assist the war effort? |
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tibert
Junior Member
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Post by tibert on May 17, 2024 18:52:31 GMT
Now that we know she was dedicated to this, what must she think of Annie? The little anomaly that threw all of their plans and projections into chaos... Speaking of Annie's interferences, the idea just occurred to me. Maybe Omega was trying bwinkingly to shake off Annie, not because she wanted to protect Annie from Shadow, but because she wanted to use her power on Shadow unhindered by Annie's presence. In the end, she had to make herself an opinion the old-fashioned way, looking at his actions and interactions with friends. I have been wondering about this page how much Omega is listening to Robot's tale and how much she is evaluating Annie's and Shadow's reactions to their friend's evilbadness. "Is it wise to come clean to these ones?" I have begun to interpret this "..." back then as "I know because I've been changed too.", and with today's page, I also read in these three dots "And my vulnerability to the distortion was my own doing". It sheds a new light on her curiosity about Robot's story and her ability to ask the good question. Maybe Omega has been accepting (welcoming?) until then of her transhumanism, and the distortion treating her as an object has been the wake up call. If so, her answer to her own question, about why waiting so much before getting a new body, is not "Only when the distortion came had I the opportunity." but "Only when the distortion came did I feel the need for one." |
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Post by TBeholder on May 17, 2024 19:02:45 GMT
Excessive enthusiasm is excessive. Also, she still tries to impress Charles.
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tibert
Junior Member
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Post by tibert on May 17, 2024 19:28:30 GMT
Excessive enthusiasm is excessive. Also, she still tries to impress Charles. (Is he actually? I would be.)
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tibert
Junior Member
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Post by tibert on May 17, 2024 19:37:34 GMT
I am more and more sceptical of Omega and Charles giving birth to more greek letters. Their activities don't seem to leave much room for building a big happy family. Tom said he got the idea for Zimmy and Gamma before imagining Annie. I would almost be of the opinion that Omega was also an idea floating around in Tom's mind, back when he thought the greek alphabet was so hokey, that years later Tom still liked the name to the point of risking confusing his readers later on, and that there's not that much to read into this. Naming baby girls after antique alphabets and alchemical substances is just a thing in the Gunnerverse. What prevents me to think so is the phrasing " No, I'm not zeta" " I am omega." Not "I have no relation with zeta. Actually, my name is omega." I doubt Tom would bring focus on the similarity in names if it meant nothing, just for the sake of a cool chapter ending. On the other hand, nobody in the gang ever seized the opportunity to venture a crack about using an omega to find a zeta... so what? |
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morrahadesigns
Full Member
Skinamarinky dinky-dink. Skinamarinky doo.
Posts: 225
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Post by morrahadesigns on May 17, 2024 21:03:30 GMT
What we're seeing is, essentially, the emegence of a post-human / post-Singularity consciousness. She can perceive how to enhance herself, which allows her to envision more enhancements, and so on and so on. A parallel with Kat, to be sure. For anyone interested in a really good short story about that, check out Ted Chiang's "Understand". The parallel to Kat is exactly what I was thinking about this arc as well. She's just coming from the ether and has older technology. |
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Post by Sky Schemer on May 17, 2024 21:19:05 GMT
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Post by imaginaryfriend on May 17, 2024 22:31:38 GMT
It should go without saying but I'd like to note in passing that this sort of information-gathering (even before adding amplifiers) would be an existential threat to any political organization that can't shield itself using etheric means and that would be the case even without the possibility of Omega remotely manipulating more complex minds. With Omega it's unsurprising the Court got whatever it wanted whenever it wanted with regard to favors, access and funding from governments, even if they didn't know Omega existed. Which leads to wonder how did the Court assist the war effort?Assuming Omega doesn't need to personally encounter the people and animals she learns about, she should be a big help with intelligence and Intentions (of foreign powers). I don't know if she'd know big-picture details but she should be able to get into the head of leaders so she'd know things on the world stage and theater level. Finding out things that can be useful on an operational level might be more challenging. She might need to know the name/location of someone in the actual forces assigned to a task to know specifics about times and places operations were taking place, but she could assign ravens to specific areas to make up for gaps in her knowledge. Taking that knowledge and making it tactically useful would still be a challenge back in the WW1-2 era because communications were what they were but at the very least Omega should be able to say, "no trust mustache-man, mustache man bad." Then there's the issue of trust and security; Omega predictions would probably have to be heavily reworded and people, having healthy levels of skepticism, would have to observe her being right a number of times before they'd actually reallocate significant resources. |
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Post by drmemory on May 18, 2024 1:43:00 GMT
Now that we know that Omega has such a strong etheric background, I find it really puzzling that she would go along with the lame exodus to another planet plan. I guess we don't know what happened to her over the last century or so yet, but it's hard to believe she'd forget all of that.
I've always thought the exodus plan was a scam but have never been sure whose scam it was. Maybe it's Omega's plan to get rid of the part of the court that is extra anti-ether?
Revenge is also a possibility. Revenge for whatever was done to her, or revenge for whatever happened to Charles.
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Post by Hatredman on May 18, 2024 1:45:34 GMT
For anyone interested in a really good short story about that, check out Ted Chiang's "Understand". Could not find it on Amazon or used, but there is an Audiobook available on the Internet Archive. archive.org/details/TedChiangUnderstand |
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Post by Hatredman on May 18, 2024 1:46:37 GMT
For anyone interested in a really good short story about that, check out Ted Chiang's "Understand". That's a fighting word around here. Why? |
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Post by Hatredman on May 18, 2024 1:57:11 GMT
Which leads to wonder how did the Court assist the war effort? ... Taking that knowledge and making it tactically useful would still be a challenge back in the WW1-2 era because communications were what they were but at the very least Omega should be able to say, "no trust mustache-man, mustache man bad." I would love to see Omega working alongside Alan Turing on Bletchley Park. |
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Post by imaginaryfriend on May 18, 2024 3:04:05 GMT
Which leads to wonder how did the Court assist the war effort? ... Taking that knowledge and making it tactically useful would still be a challenge back in the WW1-2 era because communications were what they were but at the very least Omega should be able to say, "no trust mustache-man, mustache man bad." I would love to see Omega working alongside Alan Turing on Bletchley Park. I think Ultra* and Omega would effectively have been something like friendly competitors, each trying to demonstrate their reliability to leadership. Omega would probably be pretty old at that time so (barring magic) the only contact she would have with Turing would probably be hints and pointers delivered in manila envelopes marked with her symbol. *Ultra along with any other SigInt or source would have been at a disadvantage in the competition since Omega's in god mode. Confirmation of Omega via other SigInt would be a big plus in the credibility department, though. |
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Post by Hatredman on May 18, 2024 13:09:45 GMT
I don't think I follow... Why would they be rivals in a time of war?
Anyway, have you all noticed that this is a one-pager? Begin and end "omega" markers on the same page. Maybe time will pass faster for the reader from now on.
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Post by Per on May 18, 2024 13:21:24 GMT
That's a fighting word around here. Why? Because of page 2438. I have grown to hate "I understand." so much in relation to this comic.  Join the wagon As an aside, while getting the link above I noticed that in 2430 Zimmy refers to Omega as "some kind of machine" before correcting herself, with a machine-y thing drawn in the background, so one might think she wouldn't flip out at Annie for making the same mistake later on just to make her look suspect in front of Jack and Jenny. |
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Post by imaginaryfriend on May 18, 2024 19:03:19 GMT
I don't think I follow... Why would they be rivals in a time of war? They'd be allies on one level (the big one) but rivals on one or two others. Omega wouldn't have to justify funding but SigInt would, and unless Omega was actively doing so they'd rarely corroborate each other. If the Court wanted Omega to have more weight in decision-making (and they probably would) they would rarely back the Int from the SigInt but at the same time they couldn't overtly prove what Omega can do or how Omega does it. No matter how highly recommended it came, Omega would be even more of a mystery to the grand pooh-bahs of SIS then the actual inner workings of Ultra. Additionally, they'd know what they were getting from Omega would be filtered whereas their own SigInt would get whatever it could get. There's also the probable lack of true omniscience on Omega's part. Omega may be error-free at this point but errors of omission could still happen, and the people that information goes through to process it for outside ears could make mistakes, though this is not likely considering its importance. SigInt, on the other hand, would be subject to multiple layers of hands where human error can occur. In the end Omega still has a giant edge but as far as what actually gets through... it would not be seen as infallible. So for example, say Omega knows mustache man plans to take the train from Berlin to Berchtesgaden. If said train can be blown up it's a chance to end the war early and she knows where he will board and when he will arrive and the exact time he will be at every stop in-between. The Court decides this intel is actionable and speeds it to London. The Allies have already planned a large air raid for that day targeting strategic factories. Their regular SigInt and ground intel on what to expect for resistance is reasonably solid and they have Ultra intel that some enemy AD and fighters will be busy elsewhere that day. So what do? If they divert the entire raid to the train they'll probably suffer fewer losses then the planned raid on the industrial targets from flak but more from fighters and of course there's the opportunity cost of not hitting those factories that day. What is the return? If mustache man is on the train (he is) and they can destroy it (they could) the war ends early... but unlike Omega they can't know that. In their minds it's a gamble. So what if they split an element from the raid to go after the train? The enemy defenses are being rearranged to protect the train so that element might succeed (though that's less likely than if the train was the target of the whole raid) but that isolated element is very likely to be chewed up and spit out by the enemy fighters. From the perspective of SIS they'd be sacrificed for probably zero gains. Therefore if SIS is conservative with blood and treasure, they'll probably ignore Omega's prediction. Omega could know that and decide not to communicate intel that SIS wouldn't act on, but it might improve her credibility if she did and they later verified it by other means... unless that's not how her powers work and she knows the train can't be blown up because SIS won't act on the intel. Either way she probably can't know everything all the time. |
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Post by Runningflame on May 18, 2024 21:44:43 GMT
Yes and no. It seems that Zimmy wants to not be "like this" at all. So she interprets "controlling it" to mean being able to turn it off at will. She would certainly like to be able to do that, but she can't. Annie, however, probably means being able to use it at will: in Omega's terms, to "harness it." Zimmy has no interest in doing that--in "Power Station," that is. She does later use her abilities intentionally in "Divine." (Fortunately for Annie!) |
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