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Post by grahamf on Apr 19, 2024 20:10:57 GMT
Questions
Is Omega correcting Anna by saying Zimmy's actual name is Zeta, and Zeta was just using a name she preferred?
What was Omega again? A weather station?
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Post by storyteller on Apr 19, 2024 20:19:48 GMT
So I can see a neurosurgery cranial brace behind her head (the threaded rods with wing nuts) and I'm pretty sure the long thing on the left is a high frequency antenna. Possibly the thing inside the ribcage right next to it is a receiver of some sort? I swear I've seen equipment like that but the dials/gears are throwing me off. The kind of round thing with a nosecone next to the sternum might be an IR or thermal sensor I think, things with conical mirrors tend to be looking for radiation of some sort. Big ole cylinder thing with a nut just above it looks like a pressure sensor. So overall I think this is possibly a lot of weather station stuff shoved in a person. What do you reckon? Are they taking weather sensor data and then extrapolating using stat mech to model the rest of reality? Is it just a metaphor for reading chaotic data, which Omega then parses into predictions (prophecies) that the Court can then read (interpret). I have a vague feeling that Omega is just the Oracle of Delphi in sci-fi drag. Also interesting that we have a weather droid (Skywatcher) and now Omega is (symbolically in the ether, at least) augmented with loads of weather station cyberware. The difference being that Skywatcher purely watches and Omega is, apparently, being used to cement reality into one particular shape by collapsing the macrowaveform into something knowable (a dead system). Something else with the weather stuff - Zimmy's not neutralized by rain I don't think. It's that she gets control in rain (hence her smashing that White Legs no problem) - wherein she instantly starts shutting it down. It's a fine difference because usually Zimmy doesn't do anything. Given everything - weather detection stuff is interesting to have around because right now Zimmy + Rain means that things get interesting. |
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Post by Eily on Apr 19, 2024 21:15:16 GMT
I have a vague feeling that Omega is just the Oracle of Delphi in sci-fi drag. Actually the other sci-fi oracle this makes me think about are the ones from minority report, who are embedded into the prediction system. So my guess is that Omega is another time the Court disregarded their dislike for the Ether, and just bridged one of their subjects with prescient abilities into some kind of forecast machine. IIRC, when Jerek and Annie discussed what about Omega, they came to the conclusion that it would actually be impossible to build such a machine because it would require knowledge about every single atom. Maybe the Court cheated out of that limitation. This would actually be another explanation for the Court's interest in Zimmy, she clearly is able to grasp things from the future, she always saw Kat for what she'd become, and Gamma said some of her distortion include things that haven't happened yet. So maybe the Court was looking for an even stronger prescient, except they couldn't actually use Zimmy because trying to use any kind of machine or probe near her backfires spectacularily. |
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Post by hp on Apr 19, 2024 23:22:19 GMT
So, folks are speculating about why Omega is an NP, but is it really? We're still inside the massive Zimmstortion. Could Omega simply be a sentience that recognized the best way to blend in until the time was right? That reveal page also has me leaning towards the court having trapped/used a real person to be/power Omega. Or maybe, since they all are in some version of Zimmingham, she's not an NP nor a sentience but rather how Zimmy signified the station and its impact on her. And she just seems like an NP because in this particular Zimmingham everything is mixed up due to Coyote's and Loup's mess. Or else, maybe she's how Loup and/or Coyote signified the station and its impact on the ether and Zimmy's distortion just gave her form (which then got mixed up since everything in the distortion) |
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Post by hp on Apr 19, 2024 23:27:59 GMT
Wait. what is Omega again? I remember vague mentions of some omega device which is men's endeavour to become gods and it being some kind of psychohistory (like in Asimov) predicting machine. Was there any more thourough explanation?
I'm also associating Omega with the ether station, is it right or am I mixing things?
Maybe it's time for yet another reread lmao
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Post by dramastix on Apr 20, 2024 3:33:07 GMT
To the tune of horrible experimentation on an actual person, is anyone else getting Hinzelmann from American Gods vibes from this image?
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Post by csj on Apr 20, 2024 4:30:58 GMT
oh neat they found the small child under omelas
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Post by bedinsis on Apr 20, 2024 5:45:37 GMT
Heh. It would be funny if it turned out the Omega device was just one of the many robots that had been turned into a New Person by Kat, and she was none the wiser that the robot happened to be one of the most important entities in the whole comic. This sudden splash page where the subject is portrayed with much more detail in a way decoupled from the main story reminds me of this page. |
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hil
New Member
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Post by hil on Apr 20, 2024 21:04:35 GMT
Fascinating contrast between Omega, “man’s attempt to become God” (or destroy God—Omega being the end goal of the Court) and Mecha-Kat, who’s rather organically on her way to deification. www.gunnerkrigg.com/?p=1049I've been ruminating on this idea, to the point that I had to register and jump in on the discussion. Because yeah, I think this contrast is fascinating, and maybe even important. It feels to me like a perfect way to crystallize a lot of the themes in the story. They're both amalgamations of organic and machine. But Kat looks like a robot that's grown in an organic way, a physical being that's become something etheric. And Omega appears to be a human that's been torn apart and turned into a machine, something etheric anchored down by the physical. It's a literal representation of their work. But it also speaks a lot to their philosophies when faced with the uncomprehensible ether: Kat decides to rise to the challenge, to learn and draw inspiration from what little she can understand, and to grow closer and closer towards the infinite. The Court, on the other hand, would rather tear down everything that's not within their reach, to turn that infinite into something finite. When faced with the matter of choice, Kat's given it to those who had none, while the Court's sought to render choices meaningless. The Court wants dominion over what is, and Kat wants to explore what could be. And I mean, alchemy's always been a theme of this comic. These two mortal-gods fit two different mindsets towards the magnum opus. What's more important: actually obtaining immortality, or everything you'll learn and discover in pursuit of something so impossible? |
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Post by alevice on Apr 21, 2024 2:18:24 GMT
I dont recall if i ever brought it up but like i did suspect zeta and gamma to be related to omega since they all have their greek alphabet names. It makes me all think that zimmy was always part of gkc and she simply isnt certain she has always been, with zimmingham just being like anshared projection always related to omega
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Post by Hatredman on Apr 21, 2024 4:26:12 GMT
A lot of us did. Doesn't matter who's on first, we all deserve cookies. |
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Post by Hatredman on Apr 21, 2024 4:36:23 GMT
I'm still putting all my eggs in Annie and Zimmy and now Omega all being more or less the same kid. Introducing the concept of shifting with the twins arc feels relevant to explaining how there's so many of them. What if not only Zimmy and Annie are the same kid, but Kat is, also. |
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Post by atteSmythe on Apr 21, 2024 14:43:29 GMT
... so, Omega is just another anthropomorphical abstract that decided to look like a teenager... "No, I understand" They probably used a student. That would step up the horror for Annie and Kat. Last time, the Court betrayed an adult. This time, they sacrificed a child, someone their own age. |
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tibert
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Post by tibert on Apr 21, 2024 20:14:24 GMT
Wait. what is Omega again? I remember vague mentions of some omega device which is men's endeavour to become gods and it being some kind of psychohistory (like in Asimov) predicting machine. Was there any more thourough explanation? I'm also associating Omega with the ether station, is it right or am I mixing things? Maybe it's time for yet another reread lmao But yes, rereading clarify things. The version I remembered suggested even more strongly Omega would appear as a character and yet I don't remember having actually believed the MNP could be her.
It was an opportunity to form a judgement about her based on her behaviour, rather than seeing this behaviour through the prism of what we already read and imagined about the Omega device. For a uber predictive device, she doesn't strike me as a cold calculating person. I don't know much anything zitch about writing theory, but I bet this method of characterization has a name.
Will Kat remain so eager to use Omega, with the coveted tool able to express her opinions on the subject? If Omega appears to hang out with Kat, it won't help Jack and Jenny calm down.
So overall I think this is possibly a lot of weather station stuff shoved in a person. Also interesting that we have a weather droid (Skywatcher) and now Omega is (symbolically in the ether, at least) augmented with loads of weather station cyberware. The difference being that Skywatcher purely watches and Omega is, apparently, being used to cement reality into one particular shape by collapsing the macrowaveform into something knowable (a dead system). Heh. It would be funny if it turned out the Omega device was just one of the many robots that had been turned into a New Person by Kat, and she was none the wiser that the robot happened to be one of the most important entities in the whole comic. So..... If we combine the two together, Omega was distributed between lots of weather stations, including Skywatcher, through which she became (partly?) NP! |
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tibert
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Post by tibert on Apr 21, 2024 20:45:48 GMT
If she existed as a predictive device for a long time, with no way to act directly on the world, she may have a distorted version of both her agency and what would constitute "help".
(Wait, she's an AI who escaped her box? The singularity is upon us! ... Oh, never mind, won't change much things: MechaKat is already upon us.)
She nonetheless went all agency-like on Shadow when she tried to bwip him away from Annie. And that brings us back to the complaints that Omega has become less accurate after Annie felt from the bridge, the accident when a shadow people tried to kill Annie, and succeeded in at least one timeline if Kat's anguishes are to be believed.
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Post by Polyhymnia on Apr 22, 2024 4:09:22 GMT
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Post by Sky Schemer on Apr 22, 2024 5:09:18 GMT
The kind of round thing with a nosecone next to the sternum might be an IR or thermal sensor I think, things with conical mirrors tend to be looking for radiation of some sort. Big ole cylinder thing with a nut just above it looks like a pressure sensor. So overall I think this is possibly a lot of weather station stuff shoved in a person. "I am OMEGA. Tomorrow, you will see increasing clouds, with a high of 20°C and a low of 5°C." |
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Post by silicondream on Apr 22, 2024 7:20:43 GMT
The kind of round thing with a nosecone next to the sternum might be an IR or thermal sensor I think, things with conical mirrors tend to be looking for radiation of some sort. Big ole cylinder thing with a nut just above it looks like a pressure sensor. So overall I think this is possibly a lot of weather station stuff shoved in a person. "I am OMEGA. Tomorrow, you will see increasing clouds, with a high of 20°C and a low of 5°C." "...or you would see that, but Subject Carver is still alive so the high might turn out to be 460°C if she gets carried away. GodDAMmit." |
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Post by rafk on Apr 22, 2024 7:21:00 GMT
A lot of us did. Doesn't matter who's on first, we all deserve cookies. Next page one big splash panel with one speech bubble "I'm Omega", BAM, make it happen. I will now have all the cookies, thanks. All. The. Cookies. But I will share! |
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Post by rafk on Apr 22, 2024 7:22:10 GMT
I'm still putting all my eggs in Annie and Zimmy and now Omega all being more or less the same kid. Introducing the concept of shifting with the twins arc feels relevant to explaining how there's so many of them. What if not only Zimmy and Annie are the same kid, but Kat is, also. And what if they're all actually Jesus in Purgatory? |
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Post by rafk on Apr 22, 2024 7:28:17 GMT
oh neat they found the small child under omelas Heh. Well it might just be. Apropos of nothing in particular I enjoyed the Star Trek Strange New Worlds episode that did Omelas. Such a classic story of the genre. |
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Post by csj on Apr 22, 2024 11:01:10 GMT
A lot of us did. Doesn't matter who's on first, we all deserve cookies. more important that what's on second |
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Post by liminal on Apr 22, 2024 13:47:35 GMT
Annie's POV  |
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Post by pyradonis on Apr 22, 2024 16:01:28 GMT
Hm. I am a bit disappointed she's not Sky Watcher. Let the speculation commence on why Omega looks like she(?) did before and does in however she's(?) presenting herself(?) on this page. I thought the Court wasn't down with man-machine gap bridges. Maybe they just didn't want others in the Court to follow this line of research and replicate Omega? And maybe she(?) looked like Zeta because they tweaked Omega with what they learned from Zeta? Well, end of chapter so plenty of time to ponder before the next one. If there is a human somewhere inside Omega I wonder how willing they were to be involved, or if it is another Jeanne situation, where they bound someone against their will. GLaDOS intensifies. |
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Post by somebunny on Apr 22, 2024 23:02:52 GMT
Is it just me, or is that a giant brain behind the skull?
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Post by madjack on Apr 23, 2024 1:05:33 GMT
If she existed as a predictive device for a long time, with no way to act directly on the world, she may have a distorted version of both her agency and what would constitute "help". (Wait, she's an AI who escaped her box? The singularity is upon us! ... Oh, never mind, won't change much things: MechaKat is already upon us.)
She nonetheless went all agency-like on Shadow when she tried to bwip him away from Annie. And that brings us back to the complaints that Omega has become less accurate after Annie felt from the bridge, the accident when a shadow people tried to kill Annie, and succeeded in at least one timeline if Kat's anguishes are to be believed.
I was thinking from a more generalised/narrative angle rather than character driven, I couldn't help being reminded of the recent arc of Kill Six Billion Demons where (spoilers for that plotline): One of the seven 'gods' who rules all the universes is literally omniscient, and has surrendered her agency as a result to the point she sees herself as a prop or extra in a play, with specific actions to take and no will of her own. All this leads in to a more general question of what good is knowing unless it enables doing, but feeling personally disempowered despite having a better idea of future events than almost anyone is also an interesting angle. Also, the last bit is probably more personal since the reassembly of Robot to help Shadow in particular to return to the forest was what kicked the whole story off, and the return of Possessed Robot and the bridge episode might well have been a near certainty from that point. |
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Post by Hatredman on Apr 23, 2024 4:02:19 GMT
Questions Is Omega correcting Anna by saying Zimmy's actual name is Zeta, and Zeta was just using a name she preferred? Zimmy is obviously a cute nickname. |
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Post by Hatredman on Apr 23, 2024 4:26:11 GMT
I was thinking from a more generalised/narrative angle rather than character driven, I couldn't help being reminded of the recent arc of Kill Six Billion Demons where (spoilers for that plotline): One of the seven 'gods' who rules all the universes is literally omniscient, and has surrendered her agency as a result to the point she sees herself as a prop or extra in a play, with specific actions to take and no will of her own. Anyone who can quote K6BD is my childhood friend. |
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Post by drmemory on Apr 24, 2024 4:28:08 GMT
Comment: i think I was one of the first to finger the FNP as Omega, but don't care enough about it to do the research. Meh. Anyway. Questions: Is Omega alive now? Was she always or did it happen recently? I suspect she is, because she wants things, and really seems to be hanging out with Annie and the NP of our own volition. She's also showed emotion! So I think she's at least as alive as the NP. Is Omega an NP? I doubt it. She existed long before Kat started down her Angelic path. So who created Omega? Diego is the obvious answer, just because he's the only candidate that has been introduced to us. But that doesn't necessarily make it true. Is there still an Omega separate from the remote unit that is in the distortion? If so, is Kat still trying to hack it? For that matter, how far did she get before the current crisis started? Is the Omega mainframe in the distortion? If so, it might explain why she made an NP remote, but it may not be the case, and we don't know whether the remote unit existed prior to the creation of the big distortion. Theories: Omega is really happy to be out and about in a remote unit. She seemed quite happy when she was exploring Kat's lair, and kinda unhappy when she missed out on stuff when the Arbiter was there. I'm thinking that being mobile and able to see things for herself that she's only known about in theory in the past is really exciting for her. So I'm thinking she's about as alive as an NP but not as powerful as, say, Loup - at least in her mobile form. Hard to say about the mainframe version. I'm hoping this means she has free will, even if she didn't in the past. I'm guessing that the distortion is what enabled her to make the mobile unit but it's hard to be sure. It's also possible that Omega simply hacked Kat's systems, rather than the other way around, and generated a new body for herself. I'm less certain about the rest, but I suspect that Omega's awakening has been gradual and was caused by the Kat/Annie events, at least in part. Omega was probably a really powerful but stationary computer before her predictions started to go bad, starting with the bridge incident. This stuff is really important because it matters whether Omega is a slave of the Court or a free agent. One of those is a lot better for our heroes than the other! Consider the difference between an Omega who is still completely controlled by Court programming and is even now following orders, and an Omega who is a newly free being, exploring and able to make her own choices. Pretty different! Coyote may well have had something to do with Omega becoming a conscious being with some degree of free will. Coyote has his paws in ALL the pies! That's enough DrMemorySpec for now.  |
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Post by razgrizx on Apr 24, 2024 17:24:31 GMT
With Zeta and Gamma being actual people, it was easy to guess Omega would be an actual character and not just a machine/device. It seems to be some kind of hybrid tho, that skull was alive at some point but I'm not sure if it is anymore...or if it is it can't move around and interact with the world like Omega is doing right now
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