[2877] "A fire grew."

[arzeik]

After this detailed explanation, now it all makes sense.

[philman]

The ether is a spark, that sparked a fire from which life grew

So the ether is a seed that creates life? A seed like bismuth?

[blahzor]

The world is a power supply to run the program called Mecha Kat

[zbeeblebrox]

Kat's gonna have some notes.

[stci]

Hm. Doesn't bode well for the Court's "no ether here" policy, does it?

[arkadi]

"But then there was Ether, and with Ether came disparity. Heat and cold, life and death, and of course, light and dark."

[justcurious]

And what will the implications of this be for the Court's plans to move to an Etherless world? Could these problems be the reasons that Kat will give in order to persuade the Court to change their plans?

[guntherkrieg]

Dec 18, 2023 9:55:43 GMT justcurious said:

And what will the implications of this be for the Court's plans to move to an Etherless world? Could these problems be the reasons that Kat will give in order to persuade the Court to change their plans?

I'll say it again: Planet Court is Zimmingham, outside of time/space and the ether. Etherless, full of the pseudodead Nobodies.

I was just wondering why Zimmy gets blapped to Zimmingham and then I started thinking about vacuums. If Zimmingham is void of Ether, well nature abhors a vacuum, and Zimmy is an ether battery, so the universe tries to reconcile by putting a high energy potential in a low one. 

[bicarbonat]

Sidenote: Can we get a little commotion for how much Tom's art style has grown, particularly in iconographic representation?

[Igniz]

"For my ally is the Ether. And a powerful ally it is. Life creates it, makes it grow. Its energy surrounds us and binds us. Luminous beings are we, not this crude matter. You must feel the Ether around you. Here. Between you, me, the New People, the CPUs, everywhere, yes. Even between the land and Kat's computer."

[imaginaryfriend]

It's a bit interesting that humans outside the ether compare it to the weather (a big part of which is the water cycle; as a reader I try to understand what's going on by thinking about etheric events as flows) but Saslamel is metaphorically comparing the ether to fire. That may prove to be a common perspective of beings of the etherium.

One thing that I almost missed is how Saslamel says "the world" in the first panel. He may mean his world. He may mean the planet Earth. Then he says "the world" again in panel 3 and I'm not sure we're still talking about the same thing but we are still talking about one thing. Not multiple things.

Other than maybe that, nothing new so far...

[ctso74]

Interesting that they chose to call it "a vast ocean", considering how Robot described what Kat gave the NP.

[silicondream]

Dec 18, 2023 9:51:04 GMT stci said:

Hm. Doesn't bode well for the Court's "no ether here" policy, does it?

The easiest counterargument is that the Court's been running ether depletion experiments for a while, e.g. "The Torn Sea," and baseline humans don't seem to suffer when they're in low-ether environments. Now maybe the Court just hasn't figured out how to measure the harm, or maybe "zero-ether" is a lot more inimical to life than "low-ether" is. But it could also be that ordinary human life sustains the ether without depending on it, in the same way that plants sustain most animals but could (as a whole) survive without them. If that's the case, etheric beings like Sass & Clippy might see humans as existing for their benefit, while the Court might see etherics as predators or parasites that we're better off without.

Dec 18, 2023 12:58:49 GMT imaginaryfriend said:

It's a bit interesting that humans outside the ether compare it to the weather (a big part of which is the water cycle; as a reader I try to understand what's going on by thinking about etheric events as flows) but Saslamel is metaphorically comparing the ether to fire. That may prove to be a common perspective of beings of the etherium.

Indeed, we saw fire represented as a living thing when lil' Annie was in the ether helping the ghost boy..

[drmemory]

Dec 18, 2023 9:51:04 GMT stci said:

Hm. Doesn't bode well for the Court's "no ether here" policy, does it?

I've always maintained that the whole Star Ocean/new planet without ether thing is a scam.  Probably by the same ones that scammed Tony out of his arm, or at least ones like that.  Evil sadist creatures.  Possibly ether thieves as well.  Bad entities.

On the bright side, getting the Star Ocean out of here is probably a good idea.  If ether is actually life force, which appears to be the case, then having a huge mechanism for stealing large quantities of it can't possibly be a good thing!

I agree with your point though.  If the Court really does go to a new planet that doesn't have ether then all they'll have is what they bring with them, in the form of their own souls.  They'll also be removing those same souls from the pool of ether on the current planet, which doesn't seem good.

I think we are getting pretty close to learning the point behind Coyote's plan.

[Gemini Jim]

Ether is a spark which grows like fire, eh?

I hope that's all metaphorical, because we have a fire-haired girl standing right here. One who has a direct link to the ether. Wouldn't want to give her a giant head.


I feel like we still need one more educational film reel's worth of "Why Souls Have to be Pomped," and "Why It Matters Who Pomps Them." I'm guessing dead souls feed the ether somehow, like in a soul furnace (continuing the fire metaphor).

[ezpak]

Alright, I’ll bite: What is the inclusion criteria for the Ether ecosystem? The robots, it seems, were not a part of it at all on their old bodies, despite their consciousness, and have only now joined after inhabiting organic (but still artifical) bodies. Surely the issue wasn’t that their old bodied weren't carbon-based?

[stci]

Dec 18, 2023 16:12:09 GMT silicondream said:

Dec 18, 2023 9:51:04 GMT stci said:

Hm. Doesn't bode well for the Court's "no ether here" policy, does it?

The easiest counterargument is that the Court's been running ether depletion experiments for a while, e.g. "The Torn Sea," and baseline humans don't seem to suffer when they're in low-ether environments. Now maybe the Court just hasn't figured out how to measure the harm, or maybe "zero-ether" is a lot more inimical to life than "low-ether" is. But it could also be that ordinary human life sustains the ether without depending on it, in the same way that plants sustain most animals but could (as a whole) survive without them. If that's the case, etheric beings like Sass & Clippy might see humans as existing for their benefit, while the Court might see etherics as predators or parasites that we're better off without.

I was actually thinking that if life comes from the ether, has anyone in the Court tried conceiving and/or giving birth without the ether? Even animal testing? And if the dead either return to the ether or hang around Mort-style, then their ether-free zone is either going to be knee deep in ghosts or won't be ether-free for long.

[Runningflame]

Dec 18, 2023 16:12:09 GMT silicondream said:

Dec 18, 2023 9:51:04 GMT stci said:

Hm. Doesn't bode well for the Court's "no ether here" policy, does it?

The easiest counterargument is that the Court's been running ether depletion experiments for a while, e.g. "The Torn Sea," and baseline humans don't seem to suffer when they're in low-ether environments. Now maybe the Court just hasn't figured out how to measure the harm, or maybe "zero-ether" is a lot more inimical to life than "low-ether" is.

That choice of wording made me think of zero-gravity and low-gravity environments, which are fine for humans in the short term but in the long term can have serious physiological consequences. Maybe the harm of ether deprivation just takes a while (months, years) to show up.

[Sky Schemer]

Dec 18, 2023 16:12:09 GMT silicondream said:

Dec 18, 2023 9:51:04 GMT stci said:

Hm. Doesn't bode well for the Court's "no ether here" policy, does it?

The easiest counterargument is that the Court's been running ether depletion experiments for a while, e.g. "The Torn Sea," and baseline humans don't seem to suffer when they're in low-ether environments. Now maybe the Court just hasn't figured out how to measure the harm, or maybe "zero-ether" is a lot more inimical to life than "low-ether" is. But it could also be that ordinary human life sustains the ether without depending on it, in the same way that plants sustain most animals but could (as a whole) survive without them. If that's the case, etheric beings like Sass & Clippy might see humans as existing for their benefit, while the Court might see etherics as predators or parasites that we're better off without.

Another possibility is that the court doesn't understand the ether at all. The new world may not have the ether because there is no intelligent life there, but they are bringing life to it, which means they are bringing the ether with them whether they want to or not.

[todd]

Dec 18, 2023 21:26:57 GMT Sky Schemer said:

Another possibility is that the court doesn't understand the ether at all.

That seems the most likely explanation to me - especially since we can assume that the Court haven't had those discussions with beings familiar with the ether that Annie has (and which we've listened to through her).

[drmemory]

Dec 18, 2023 23:57:33 GMT todd said:

Dec 18, 2023 21:26:57 GMT Sky Schemer said:

Another possibility is that the court doesn't understand the ether at all.

That seems the most likely explanation to me - especially since we can assume that the Court haven't had those discussions with beings familiar with the ether that Annie has (and which we've listened to through her).

Pretty sure they just think of it as a power source.  A flexible well of energy that some chosen few can use to do special things.

They did a bunch of experiments to try and collect it (like the power stations).  They also tried to steal Coyote's power.

I fear that etheric power used to run a machine may leave the cycle, which will eventually cause the world to stop turning.

[blahzor]

Dec 18, 2023 12:58:49 GMT imaginaryfriend said:

It's a bit interesting that humans outside the ether compare it to the weather (a big part of which is the water cycle; as a reader I try to understand what's going on by thinking about etheric events as flows) but Saslamel is metaphorically comparing the ether to fire. That may prove to be a common perspective of beings of the etherium.

One thing that I almost missed is how Saslamel says "the world" in the first panel. He may mean his world. He may mean the planet Earth. Then he says "the world" again in panel 3 and I'm not sure we're still talking about the same thing but we are still talking about one thing. Not multiple things.

Other than maybe that, nothing new so far...

Or every human has some very very very low level of ether keeping their bonds together and heart bumpin

Then Kat will get on a hill and hold her hands up and collect it to finally stop the courts plan

[csj]

so when the fire started to burn, right? and it starts to spread...

[mturtle7]

Obligatory reminder that what the arbiter is describing - a dead world filled with nothing, except when the Ether gives it light and life - is exactly how Annie always sees the world in her astral form. Most of the world is "grey and lifeless" to her, except in the Forest which is always full of colors. It should also be noted that, on the other hand, Kat has a very different way of seeing the non-Etheric world, which is anything but lifeless to her.

I think that the Arbiter, ironically enough, is a bit biased here, though not entirely wrong. Interesting to see where this goes!

[silicondream]

Dec 18, 2023 18:58:47 GMT ezpak said:

Alright, I’ll bite: What is the inclusion criteria for the Ether ecosystem? The robots, it seems, were not a part of it at all on their old bodies, despite their consciousness, and have only now joined after inhabiting organic (but still artifical) bodies. Surely the issue wasn’t that their old bodied weren't carbon-based?

Consciousness probably isn’t a criterion at all. Ketrak guides the souls of insects, after all, and even the simplest Court robot is (I think) more conscious than a fly. So yes, it might be an organic chemistry thing.

It could also be that psychopomps inherit the prejudices of their parent human cultures, so they're not prepared to recognize the etheric potential of intelligent inorganic tools. But in that case you'd expect the Japanese psychopomps to have declared them tsukumogami and laid claim to them already.

Lastly, it might be that future Kat ends up reaching through time to collect the souls of all destroyed robots in history, so the psychopomps never had a chance to notice their existence.

Dec 18, 2023 19:42:25 GMT stci said:

Dec 18, 2023 16:12:09 GMT silicondream said:

The easiest counterargument is that the Court's been running ether depletion experiments for a while, e.g. "The Torn Sea," and baseline humans don't seem to suffer when they're in low-ether environments. Now maybe the Court just hasn't figured out how to measure the harm, or maybe "zero-ether" is a lot more inimical to life than "low-ether" is. But it could also be that ordinary human life sustains the ether without depending on it, in the same way that plants sustain most animals but could (as a whole) survive without them. If that's the case, etheric beings like Sass & Clippy might see humans as existing for their benefit, while the Court might see etherics as predators or parasites that we're better off without.

I was actually thinking that if life comes from the ether, has anyone in the Court tried conceiving and/or giving birth without the ether? Even animal testing?

I don't believe we've seen any ordinary life forms colonizing the Star Ocean, even though Paz and Lindsey apparently survived in it without ill effects, so sterility is certainly one possible consequence of depletion. I get the impression that Court culture has inherited British awkwardness about sex, so it may not be a preferred research area.

And if the dead either return to the ether or hang around Mort-style, then their ether-free zone is either going to be knee deep in ghosts or won't be ether-free for long.

It’s possible that, without the ether, ghosts wouldn’t form in the first place. They are sometimes understood as being etheric imprints of a person, rather than being that person's original essence cut loose from its body.

Dec 18, 2023 21:26:57 GMT Sky Schemer said:

Another possibility is that the court doesn't understand the ether at all.

I think we've established that nobody understands the ether well. Sass & Clippy certainly don't, or they wouldn't have lost track of the arrow and they wouldn't be baffled by Kat's angel form. Even Coyote is largely operating on speculation, and Jones doesn't seem to think that any of the gods she's met understand the whole truth. It must be difficult to avoid confirmation bias when every popular belief spawns supernatural beings to match it after a few generations.

Plus, no one other than Our Heroes really talks to each other. The Court contains several individuals who could significantly advance its understanding of the ether—Jones, Annie, Anja, Renard, Zimmy, etc.—but its policies of censorship, secrecy and willful ignorance prevent it from effectively pooling their wisdom (or even taking it seriously, because none of them are Proper Humans.) Meanwhile, every part of the Etheric bureaucracy seems to operate on the principle that what they know isn't safe to share and what they don't know isn't worth asking about. Saslamel can't be arsed to learn any language still spoken by living humans, the ROTD never gets around to explaining Mort's job to him, the Norns are politely opaque. This obsession with information control makes sense when these guys are trying to maintain their authority over a universe of living stories, but it torpedoes any attempt to collectively triangulate a more complete understanding of things.

The new world may not have the ether because there is no intelligent life there, but they are bringing life to it, which means they are bringing the ether with them whether they want to or not.

Perhaps they'll rely on their ether siphon technology to vacuum up whatever the colonists produce. I think the Court is fine with undifferentiated etheric energy, that it can repurpose or store or shoot into space or whatever. It just doesn't want a bunch of weird critters popping into existence and enforcing their own rules about how to use that energy.

[pyradonis]

So, where did the original spark come from, then?

[TBeholder]

Dec 18, 2023 9:55:43 GMT justcurious said:

And what will the implications of this be for the Court's plans to move to an Etherless world?

That it’s not a thing and at most they would start it from a “blank slate” state (with particular distribution of beliefs)? But this was a distinct possibility right away.

[silicondream]

Dec 19, 2023 13:31:59 GMT pyradonis said:

So, where did the original spark come from, then?

1. The Seed Bismuth
2. Errant Tic-Toc
3. Annie's pyromaniac great⁴⁷-grandfather
4. Ancient Merostomatozon astronauts who were hoping to colonize an etherless world

[blahzor]

Dec 19, 2023 13:31:59 GMT pyradonis said:

So, where did the original spark come from, then?

Maddy (this is a Pantheon tv series reference)

[Per]

In the beginning, there was only darkness. Someone was likely to be eaten by a Fire Grue.