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Post by imaginaryfriend on Dec 13, 2023 8:57:15 GMT
Yeah those adhesion contracts can bite you if you're not careful. By The Way, guys, if I'm not around to make a new thread it means I'm asleep. Anyone can go ahead and do it. |
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Post by arkadi on Dec 13, 2023 9:01:28 GMT
Annie and Kat already looking at each other XD
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Post by Angry Individual on Dec 13, 2023 9:01:48 GMT
We all knew it was coming, but that in of itself means that the story flow was leading up to this very moment. I enjoy a good story thread being meaningful and the ending of said thread making perfect sense.
Now the question is whether or not Annie wants to become THE psychopomp, since... that sort of cements it for all eternity so long as the New-men race exists, no?
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Post by arf on Dec 13, 2023 9:24:19 GMT
"Among other things"?
Oh, Kat!
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Post by philman on Dec 13, 2023 9:43:20 GMT
"arguments of ownership often spring from improperly choosing a representative"
Foreshadowing? What argument of ownership will Annie and Kat get into in the future? When/if Robot dies perhaps?
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Post by blahzor on Dec 13, 2023 9:48:59 GMT
"Among other things"? Oh, Kat! Yeah if you read it you'd see that you are contractually obligated to show up to San Diego Comic Con in your Mecha suit every other year |
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Post by blahzor on Dec 13, 2023 9:54:17 GMT
Also it's decided then Kat will appoint Zimmy as her guide/pomp
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Post by wombat on Dec 13, 2023 11:34:51 GMT
Also it's decided then Kat will appoint Zimmy as her guide/pomp Yeah, as much as it seems obvious where this is going, I hope Kat recognizes that she has the opportunity to do something really funny right now. |
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Post by Per on Dec 13, 2023 12:00:05 GMT
"arguments of ownership often spring from improperly choosing a representative" Foreshadowing? More like a backcallening to chapter 16, I think. |
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Post by yellowb on Dec 13, 2023 12:36:40 GMT
"arguments of ownership often spring from improperly choosing a representative" Foreshadowing? More like a backcallening to chapter 16, I think. That was my thought as well. I think this page in particular: www.gunnerkrigg.com/?p=341 |
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Post by ctso74 on Dec 13, 2023 15:04:48 GMT
There's no reason to make it sound so foreboding, Clippy... Right?...
Kat could be known as the NP figure of Life, and Annie the NP figure of Death. Brings to mind them flanking all the treatises.
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Post by rabbit on Dec 13, 2023 15:28:31 GMT
There's no reason to make it sound so foreboding, Clippy... Right?... Kat could be known as the NP figure of Life, and Annie the NP figure of Death. Brings to mind them flanking all the treatises. That is a really elegant way of looking at Kat and Annie's relationship within the world of GC. To expand on that idea, you might say that Kat is, or has become, a powerful etheric creature - a new goddess. But as Coyote so dramatically said when he revealed his great secret to Annie, I do not exist! Or more accurately, he would not exist without humankind's imagination giving life to those creatures like Coyote that inhabit the ether. So in that sense, Annie - as a psychopomp - is ensuring that Kat the mecha goddess continues to exist; that her world continues to spin. Which is only fair, since Kat is the one who broke time to save Annie. In fact, the Norns point out that in saving Annie, Kat is saving herself too. So to extend ctso74 's lovely image of life/death, their relationship is symbiotic; neither can exist without the other, which certainly aligns with the way they are portrayed in the treatises. |
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Post by MarineMonarch on Dec 13, 2023 16:40:56 GMT
Is it just me, or is the background warping around Kat in a way it isn't for other characters?
(Of course, could just be avoiding the black hair on a dark background problem)
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Post by drmemory on Dec 13, 2023 16:43:35 GMT
For God's sake, someone ask the question:
"Interpreter, what does it matter which psychopomp takes a soul into the ether?"
I can't be the only one that's wondered about this! Do they get paid by the soul? Does it make them immortal to get enough souls? Is it just for bragging rights??? I've got separate threads on Kat the Creator and on contracts but it seems to make sense to ask this here, as it's a rare opportunity to actually get useful answers from an abstract entity.
So, we'll probably just get "I... understand" as they all wander off.
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Post by Gemini Jim on Dec 13, 2023 16:46:06 GMT
I guess everybody gets a cookie, since Clippy's answer leaves both possibilities open.
It's either a DIY project, or she can hire an independent contractor.
Clippy makes it sound like she can't share the responsibility. As in, if an NPC dies, and Kat's off doing something important (* Lethal Company), she can't have Annie fill in for her.
Or maybe that's where the argument comes in? "I 'pomped the last one, it's your turn to do the pomping."
EDIT: Also, that "among other things" bit definitely won't come back to bite her. "It's the first NPC pregnancy, you have to be the midwife."
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Post by csj on Dec 13, 2023 18:28:46 GMT
Melting down chips and desoldering involves heat, so...
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Post by Gemminie on Dec 13, 2023 19:09:43 GMT
Last time Kat asked Annie about Lana, but Annie, like everyone else, doesn't know anything about whether she's alive or dead. So back to the matter at hand. Kat talks to the Interpreter, and it seems to be pretty much what we've all been surmising: the contract Kat signed without reading has a bunch of fine print that says she's responsible for the New People's souls when they die. And there's a bunch of other fine print as well, absolutely none of which will of course come back to bite Kat AGAIN later on, I'm sure.
Annie cuts in and asks whether this makes Kat a psychompomp. His answer is that she can do it herself, which I guess would make Kat a psychopomp, or she can delegate it to someone else – though Kat's the one who has to make that choice. And then Helper Ghost unhelpfully warns them that making a bad choice of psychopomp can cause conflicts of ownership.
I hope he explains what that means. Ownership? Ownership of what? I mean, when they're taken into the Ether, they're gone, right? What is there to own?
I half suspect that if Kat asks Annie to do it, the Interpreter's going to say that Annie's already got a prior commitment for future spirit guiding activities, so she can't do it. Or ... perhaps if Annie agrees to do pomp work for Kat, the other psychopomps won't be able to call upon Annie's services? Anyway, what I'm saying is, what if Sam becomes the New Pomp? Who better to take on the task than someone who used to be one of them?
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Post by somebunny on Dec 13, 2023 19:59:35 GMT
"arguments of ownership often spring from improperly choosing a representative" Foreshadowing? What argument of ownership will Annie and Kat get into in the future? When/if Robot dies perhaps? I think it's referring to infighting among psychopomps, as we've seen before, or even just arguments in general. If Kat chooses Annie to be the psychopomp of the new people, Kat (and indirectly Annie) is probably going to have to defend that decision to many other psychopomps who felt they were a better candidate. |
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Post by atteSmythe on Dec 13, 2023 20:07:19 GMT
"Interpreter, what does it matter which psychopomp takes a soul into the ether?" That's what I'm hoping to learn here, too! |
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Post by exquisitecorpus on Dec 14, 2023 1:14:30 GMT
I mean—isn't this kind of just a simplified way of explaining the roles conveyers of death/gods of death take in many myths? i.e. that they're delegates of a creator-god designated to convey their offspring/creations into an afterlife established under the creator gods' own domain/demesne(s). Think Anubis or Ereshkigal or Charon. Something like that. What I really want to know is—how does the ether treat atheists? Does a psychopomp/creator-god just claim them based on their lineage? Does their god become a secular monument/idea instead, as in American Gods?
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Post by silicondream on Dec 14, 2023 1:41:32 GMT
I half suspect that if Kat asks Annie to do it, the Interpreter's going to say that Annie's already got a prior commitment for future spirit guiding activities, so she can't do it. Or ... perhaps if Annie agrees to do pomp work for Kat, the other psychopomps won't be able to call upon Annie's services? Anyway, what I'm saying is, what if Sam becomes the New Pomp? Who better to take on the task than someone who used to be one of them? I'm wondering if each NP can be authorized to be their own psychopomp. Walk into the ether when you're good and ready, not before! |
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yhbc
Junior Member
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Post by yhbc on Dec 14, 2023 2:00:21 GMT
What does Kat have on the back of her neck?
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Post by drmemory on Dec 14, 2023 3:19:05 GMT
What does Kat have on the back of her neck? Looks like she still has the bandage from when Annie implanted that chip in her neck. That really wasn't that long ago, was it? A few days maybe? |
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Post by blahzor on Dec 14, 2023 5:03:10 GMT
There's no reason to make it sound so foreboding, Clippy... Right?... Kat could be known as the NP figure of Life, and Annie the NP figure of Death. Brings to mind them flanking all the treatises. That is a really elegant way of looking at Kat and Annie's relationship within the world of GC. To expand on that idea, you might say that Kat is, or has become, a powerful etheric creature - a new goddess. But as Coyote so dramatically said when he revealed his great secret to Annie, I do not exist! Or more accurately, he would not exist without humankind's imagination giving life to those creatures like Coyote that inhabit the ether. So in that sense, Annie - as a psychopomp - is ensuring that Kat the mecha goddess continues to exist; that her world continues to spin. Which is only fair, since Kat is the one who broke time to save Annie. In fact, the Norns point out that in saving Annie, Kat is saving herself too. So to extend ctso74 's lovely image of life/death, their relationship is symbiotic; neither can exist without the other, which certainly aligns with the way they are portrayed in the treatises. Annie the hustler. Making sure she got souls to take in the ether and never jobless like that Huntsman fellow |
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yhbc
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Post by yhbc on Dec 14, 2023 11:33:29 GMT
What does Kat have on the back of her neck? Looks like she still has the bandage from when Annie implanted that chip in her neck. That really wasn't that long ago, was it? A few days maybe? Okay, a few days ago in comic time maybe but that was back in February! |
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Post by pyradonis on Dec 14, 2023 11:52:48 GMT
I mean—isn't this kind of just a simplified way of explaining the roles conveyers of death/gods of death take in many myths? i.e. that they're delegates of a creator-god designated to convey their offspring/creations into an afterlife established under the creator gods' own domain/demesne(s). Think Anubis or Ereshkigal or Charon. Something like that. What I really want to know is—how does the ether treat atheists? Does a psychopomp/creator-god just claim them based on their lineage? Does their god become a secular monument/idea instead, as in American Gods? As I understand it, it's not directly belief that powers the Ether, it's stories. For example, Ysengrin and Renard are not deities at all, they were just subjects of popular stories, popular enough that they brought two powerful Etheric beings into existence. Other creatures seen were from modern/urban legends. And yes, according to this understanding, the existence of deities in the Gunnerverse is more or less a byproduct of many stories, tales and myth being about deities. Which psychopomp comes to take you after your death does seems to be decided based on where you're from and your species if you're not of any particular faith. The souls of atheists will, as I understand it, fuel the Ether with whichever stories, tales and myths made the most impression on them.
Now the question is whether or not Annie wants to become THE psychopomp, since... that sort of cements it for all eternity so long as the New-men race exists, no? It has been confirmed that psychopomps can be killed, so the Etheric bureaucracy must have an official process to choose a new psychopomp for a group of beings. Although that does not confirm that they can retire voluntarily, since we still don't know what exactly drives them to guide souls over in the first place. If it is compulsion created from the stories about them, then it might be the longer you guide souls, the less possible it is for you to stop doing it. |
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Post by blahzor on Dec 14, 2023 12:27:19 GMT
Atheist probably get taken by whoever is nearby/location
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Post by blazingstar on Dec 14, 2023 17:45:12 GMT
For God's sake, someone ask the question: "Interpreter, what does it matter which psychopomp takes a soul into the ether?" I can't be the only one that's wondered about this! Do they get paid by the soul? Does it make them immortal to get enough souls? Is it just for bragging rights??? I've got separate threads on Kat the Creator and on contracts but it seems to make sense to ask this here, as it's a rare opportunity to actually get useful answers from an abstract entity. So, we'll probably just get "I... understand" as they all wander off. I mean—isn't this kind of just a simplified way of explaining the roles conveyers of death/gods of death take in many myths? i.e. that they're delegates of a creator-god designated to convey their offspring/creations into an afterlife established under the creator gods' own domain/demesne(s). Think Anubis or Ereshkigal or Charon. Something like that. I completely agree, exquisitecorpus (and if no one has told you yet, welcome to the forum!) GC's afterlife bureaucracy is just another way of explaining how it's possible that All Myths Are True: every god exists at the same time, they just have different departments so that they don't overlap and get in each other's way. What I really want to know is—how does the ether treat atheists? Does a psychopomp/creator-god just claim them based on their lineage? Does their god become a secular monument/idea instead, as in American Gods? Atheist probably get taken by whoever is nearby/location I, too, am interested in what they do with nonbelievers. Maybe they just default to whatever god their personal beliefs are the closest match to, which, for a lot of people (even atheists), probably matches that of their parents |
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Post by King Mir on Dec 14, 2023 17:52:51 GMT
I guess everybody gets a cookie, since Clippy's answer leaves both possibilities open. It's either a DIY project, or she can hire an independent contractor. Clippy makes it sound like she can't share the responsibility. As in, if an NPC dies, and Kat's off doing something important (* Lethal Company), she can't have Annie fill in for her. I imagine Kat can decide on whatever she likes the rules to be. So if she says that she and Annie are both valid Pomps, then they will be and have to dispute between themselves who takes any particular soul. Or they take turns every other day, and Mutt can do sundays so they both have a day off  . If the Arbiter is willing, she might even be able to say that Annie can take this one, but next time they have to decide all over again. Though the Arbiter might not wish to play that role. I mean she's actually charged with inventing the death mythos of this race. Many pantheons have conditions for where you go and who takes you there. |
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Post by drmemory on Dec 14, 2023 17:54:53 GMT
Looks like she still has the bandage from when Annie implanted that chip in her neck. That really wasn't that long ago, was it? A few days maybe? Okay, a few days ago in comic time maybe but that was back in February! I blame the Norns for that! |
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. If the Arbiter is willing, she might even be able to say that Annie can take this one, but next time they have to decide all over again. Though the Arbiter might not wish to play that role.