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Post by gpvos on Dec 12, 2023 15:24:09 GMT
Maybe we are still figuring things out, but it really appears that Tom isn't. I must say that I like the way in which many things from earlier in the comic appear to be coming together (which means we're really in or near the endgame now), but there are still some surprises that are hidden from the readers.
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Post by silicondream on Dec 12, 2023 16:59:38 GMT
Doesn't seem like Surma got compensation or special powers either. She got to meet Tony Ouch. "We'll help you break up with James, but in return you must serve us for the rest of your natural life." surma is totally fine with this situation |
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Post by blazingstar on Dec 12, 2023 19:04:02 GMT
I don't think that implication has been so clear. It's a pretty big assumption to say they're all doing a job because they personally get something out of it. Those of us who were raised in a transactional culture might presume such, but not all cultures think that way. Maybe psychopomps are driven by a sense of duty, a collective responsibility in helping the world to keep spinning. Coyote also implied this when he explained "this is their important work", and yet, if their sense of duty to keep the world spinning was the only thing driving them, then why do Guides come into conflict about who gets to escort a soul into the Ether instead of just being content that someone does it? I thought about if maybe they are required to escort a minimum number of souls per time period, but that also doesn't fit with Ankou complaining about not getting to take Mort's soul during the "busy times" of a world war. So while I also believe they do feel a sense of responsibility, there must be more at play. Souls can't be guided by just anyone, because everything must be orderly. Death in the GC-verse is a bureaucracy; the guides' territory, and what they are in charge of, seems to be a source of their identity and pride. Mallt-y-nos probably guides Welsh people, Moddey-dhoo probably guides English-speaking people from the Isle of Man, Ankou probably takes most mainland Britons, Ketrak guides spiders and bugs, etc. There are strict rules about what souls fall under whose jurisdiction, and Clippy is not the first one to mention that there are contracts involved. Just like with any set of rules, there are conflicts, gaps, and cases that fall through the cracks. But none of that - possessiveness, pride in their work, strict adherence to the rules, lack of a quota - means that there must be compensation involved. Sometimes people just like seeing a job well done, by the people who are supposed to do it. It could also be an effect of the culture Tom comes from (British culture is famous for loving bureaucracies). |
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Post by Nnelg on Dec 12, 2023 19:31:04 GMT
An adhesion contract (aka "standard form" contract) is generally treated the same as any other contract. There are a number of defenses Kat could raise but I think they're weak. imho the strongest are fraud, impossibility, capacity, and unconscionable terms. Yes, I was referring to the fact that contracts of any type require a conscious agreement to terms. The fact that Kat didn't read the terms means that she isn't really conscious of what those terms were, she just thoughtlessly pressed a button without knowing what she was agreeing to. Now, one could argue that she was made aware that there were terms, and thus it's her fault for not reading them. But that wouldn't work if the terms included something like "your soul now belongs to the Arbiter, and firstborn child must be sacrificed to pay the Interpreter's fees". So there has to be a line somewhere. That's where Unconsciability and Fraud come in. Soul-reaping might be a daily affair to the GCU, but it's beyond the pale for an ordinary human like Kat. The possibility of psychopomp obligations would never have entered into Kat's mind at all, particularly with everything the Interpreter having said thus far being about the arrow. It was an arguably reasonable assumption that the terms and conditions only referred to the use of the arrow, when nothing about the New Peoples's souls were mentioned by the Interpreter. Thus, you could argue the Interpreter defrauded Kat by way of misrepresentation. Additionally, if Kat had been aware of the psychopomp clause (and the "keeper of their soul" clause in general), she would have very likely have objected to them. That's because being forced to facilitate someone's death is quite a traumatic situation for an ordinary person to be in, thus making it an easily arguable Unconsciable term in any human court. The main counterargument to that one is that it wasn't unconsciable to the Arbiter, however... He really should have known better. I highly doubt this is the first time he's dealt with ordinary humans, and in fact he just had to explain the foundational principles of his station to Kat. He apparently just didn't care that Kat didn't know what she was getting into, and that is why I think the contract is unjust. |
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Post by Gemminie on Dec 12, 2023 21:55:39 GMT
Coyote also implied this when he explained "this is their important work", and yet, if their sense of duty to keep the world spinning was the only thing driving them, then why do Guides come into conflict about who gets to escort a soul into the Ether instead of just being content that someone does it? I thought about if maybe they are required to escort a minimum number of souls per time period, but that also doesn't fit with Ankou complaining about not getting to take Mort's soul during the "busy times" of a world war. So while I also believe they do feel a sense of responsibility, there must be more at play. Souls can't be guided by just anyone, because everything must be orderly. Death in the GC-verse is a bureaucracy; the guides' territory, and what they are in charge of, seems to be a source of their identity and pride. Mallt-y-nos probably guides Welsh people, Moddey-dhoo probably guides English-speaking people from the Isle of Man, Ankou probably takes most mainland Britons, Ketrak guides spiders and bugs, etc. There are strict rules about what souls fall under whose jurisdiction, and Clippy is not the first one to mention that there are contracts involved. Just like with any set of rules, there are conflicts, gaps, and cases that fall through the cracks. But none of that - possessiveness, pride in their work, strict adherence to the rules, lack of a quota - means that there must be compensation involved. Sometimes people just like seeing a job well done, by the people who are supposed to do it. It could also be an effect of the culture Tom comes from (British culture is famous for loving bureaucracies). And yet the psychopomps manipulated Annie into contact with Jeanne by giving her a blinker stone, seemingly because they needed her help to get Jeanne into the Ether, but when Annie did it, they didn't consider themselves to owe her anything, as if she had already gotten some sort of intangible compensation for her work. |
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Post by gpvos on Dec 12, 2023 22:27:53 GMT
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Post by King Mir on Dec 13, 2023 6:35:42 GMT
I think what the guides get from ferrying souls is followers of their pantheon. People who believe in them before being absorbed into the either. Which literally makes them more real and not forgotten.
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Post by King Mir on Dec 13, 2023 7:04:51 GMT
An adhesion contract (aka "standard form" contract) is generally treated the same as any other contract. There are a number of defenses Kat could raise but I think they're weak. imho the strongest are fraud, impossibility, capacity, and unconscionable terms. Yes, I was referring to the fact that contracts of any type require a conscious agreement to terms. The fact that Kat didn't read the terms means that she isn't really conscious of what those terms were, she just thoughtlessly pressed a button without knowing what she was agreeing to. Now, one could argue that she was made aware that there were terms, and thus it's her fault for not reading them. But that wouldn't work if the terms included something like "your soul now belongs to the Arbiter, and firstborn child must be sacrificed to pay the Interpreter's fees". So there has to be a line somewhere. That's where Unconsciability and Fraud come in. Soul-reaping might be a daily affair to the GCU, but it's beyond the pale for an ordinary human like Kat. The possibility of psychopomp obligations would never have entered into Kat's mind at all, particularly with everything the Interpreter having said thus far being about the arrow. It was an arguably reasonable assumption that the terms and conditions only referred to the use of the arrow, when nothing about the New Peoples's souls were mentioned by the Interpreter. Thus, you could argue the Interpreter defrauded Kat by way of misrepresentation. Additionally, if Kat had been aware of the psychopomp clause (and the "keeper of their soul" clause in general), she would have very likely have objected to them. That's because being forced to facilitate someone's death is quite a traumatic situation for an ordinary person to be in, thus making it an easily arguable Unconsciable term in any human court. The main counterargument to that one is that it wasn't unconsciable to the Arbiter, however... He really should have known better. I highly doubt this is the first time he's dealt with ordinary humans, and in fact he just had to explain the foundational principles of his station to Kat. He apparently just didn't care that Kat didn't know what she was getting into, and that is why I think the contract is unjust. I don't think the contract is unjust and I don't think Kat would have objected. Kat is just being invited to play an important role in the death and funeral rites of beings who could be considered her family. Would you really turn down such an invitation in her shoes? Sam deserves her presence. Funerals might be traumatic for some, but they also offer closure and catharsis for others. Sam deserves Kat's presence here, and it is a blessing of the Arbiter's that she is able to be here, and speedily. Kat took on ownership of the new people. The same ownership a witch has over her familiar. This role has given them life. And so if their lives mean anything to Kat, then she may do anything she must for them so that they may be alive and real. The details of her obligation to them are not so important to spell out so long as she agrees that there is an obligation. In this case she is asked to provide for their afterlife, which they surely deserve. I think Kat needs to be here to establish the rule: what happens to this new race on death? Annie may be able to play a role, but if so that could commit her to the service of these people. Which is perhaps the best outcome for them. Annie may not like that, but she may accept it anyway. She can be the new people's psychopomp. |
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Post by imaginaryfriend on Dec 13, 2023 9:55:53 GMT
RE: Contracts: I don't want to go into the details but one of the jobs I had involved selling both product(s) and services. When I first started 80% of clients I dealt with demanded significant changes in terms after close, tried to renegotiate price after close, demanded deposits back they were supposed to forfeit on cancellation, or otherwise insisted they be given ridiculous levels of stuff or consideration for free. Some people were doing this multiple times. We were only successfully concluding about 20% and barely scraping by. I suggested we use written contracts but was told that was completely impossible because we couldn't afford a lawyer and looking at the contract would scare away all the customers (and additionally that this was normal and I should just suck it up, buttercup). After about two months of this endless stream of asshattery I had an idea and on my own initiative went to Staples and bought a basic salesbook. If you're unfamiliar they have space for client information, what is ordered, how much it costs, other charges and the total bill. The pressure of writing on the paper makes carbon copies. From then on when people walked in I started filling in the top part based on what they said they wanted and what it would cost, then made them fill out their billing address in the lower part, and after they left I entered details into the compy as needed instead of just using the compy while talking to them. It wasn't a contract and nobody signed anything, though I did give clients a copy of their order which probably helped some people, but the ritual of the salesbook woke people up and made them take what was going on more seriously. Business inverted for the better; from then on about 80% of deals went through without drama. Sure, there was a slight dip in close and 20% of people's handshakes were still no good but freebies and cops were almost eliminated. Not sure about the money end but I'm guessing gross more than doubled... all because of a $4 paper salesbook.
How does that tie in with the comic? Well, Saslamel and Slippy did provide Kat with a button to push when they could've just had an oral agreement (or alternatively, a proper contract but that might mean Kat would read it). Minimal though it was, and similar to other click-thru adhesion contracts Kat was used to (and used to not paying attention to) it was an opportunity for Kat to wake up and take proper stock of what she was agreeing to. Kat gained convenience too, by not having to read a stack of papers, initial each term and sign on the bottom line. She's now experiencing remorse from that thoughtless convenience but I can't say that's unjust.
What is my point? We can't have contracts if "derp" is a valid defense and "yeah I didn't bother to read it" is "derp." If we don't have contracts then we can't have transactions that can't be settled immediately (cash on the barrel, as they used to say). Because of adhesion contracts we live in a word where you can buy pretty much anything from anywhere online, and while I'd prefer they were just used to indemnify instead of profiling people and wh0ring their data all over the planet they do make the online world keep spinning. You can pay all your bills with one click, or accidentally buy a whole pallet of 2016 political t-shirts or an antique doorbell from China. It's all up to you so be careful.
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Post by todd on Dec 13, 2023 13:53:51 GMT
I suppose that Kat looked upon it all as just some "etheric world" distraction that fell more into Annie's area then hers. (Of course, she did bring it upon herself by unnecessarily bringing Diego's arrow into the "transfer-back" of Reynardine to Annie.)
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Post by Nnelg on Dec 13, 2023 14:22:36 GMT
It's all up to you so be careful. Oh yes, I agree with this in general. I'm just saying there's a limit to how much you can "thoughtlessly" agree to, and you can argue that this is beyond it. I don't think the contract is unjust and I don't think Kat would have objected. Kat is just being invited to play an important role in the death and funeral rites of beings who could be considered her family. Would you really turn down such an invitation in her shoes? That is one way of looking at it. However, it is not the only way a reasonable person could view the situation, especially if they are not familiar with how all this ether stuff works. Comparisons could be made to euthenasia, for instance. (Note that these arguments become a lot weaker with the next page's additional information.) |
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Post by ctso74 on Dec 13, 2023 14:40:55 GMT
Kat, solemnly: "dd if=/dev/zero of=/dev/sdb" The "b" is for Buddy. Shouldn't it be "dd if=/dev/sdb/* of=/dev/null"? I believe that would go the through the process of copying "Buddy" to nowhere. It would test Kat's read speed, but wouldn't delete Buddy. The previous statement should overwrite all of Buddy with zeros. Other commands would be better to use, but I thought zeroing his partition out would be more death-like. |
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Post by pyradonis on Dec 14, 2023 9:02:02 GMT
It's all up to you so be careful. Oh yes, I agree with this in general. I'm just saying there's a limit to how much you can "thoughtlessly" agree to, and you can argue that this is beyond it. I'd wager ten different courts in ten different countries would give ten different verdicts in this case.
Ouch. "We'll help you break up with James, but in return you must serve us for the rest of your natural life." surma is totally fine with this situationShe knew it wouldn't be too long. |
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Post by King Mir on Dec 14, 2023 17:16:35 GMT
I don't think the contract is unjust and I don't think Kat would have objected. Kat is just being invited to play an important role in the death and funeral rites of beings who could be considered her family. Would you really turn down such an invitation in her shoes? That is one way of looking at it. However, it is not the only way a reasonable person could view the situation, especially if they are not familiar with how all this ether stuff works. Comparisons could be made to euthenasia, for instance. (Note that these arguments become a lot weaker with the next page's additional information.) It's not euthanasia; Sam is already dead. We learned the specifics on the next page, but even without that, I think we can infer that Kat is charged with providing whatever Sam needs to die like a human. |
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Post by blazingstar on Dec 14, 2023 17:31:34 GMT
None of this - possessiveness, pride in their work, strict adherence to the rules, lack of a quota - means that there must be compensation involved. Sometimes people just like seeing a job well done, by the people who are supposed to do it. It could also be an effect of the culture Tom comes from (British culture is famous for loving bureaucracies). And yet the psychopomps manipulated Annie into contact with Jeanne by giving her a blinker stone, seemingly because they needed her help to get Jeanne into the Ether, but when Annie did it, they didn't consider themselves to owe her anything, as if she had already gotten some sort of intangible compensation for her work. Have you considered that the psychopomps didn't think they owed Annie anything for guiding Jeanne, because they don't think their work needs any compensation? |
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Post by Gemminie on Dec 14, 2023 17:54:42 GMT
And yet the psychopomps manipulated Annie into contact with Jeanne by giving her a blinker stone, seemingly because they needed her help to get Jeanne into the Ether, but when Annie did it, they didn't consider themselves to owe her anything, as if she had already gotten some sort of intangible compensation for her work. Have you considered that the psychopomps didn't think they owed Annie anything for guiding Jeanne, because they don't think their work needs any compensation?I hadn't actually considered that because of what I see as several bits of evidence to the contrary, but none of them are conclusive proof. Mallt-y-nos and the Moddy Dhoo are remarkably contentious about which of them will claim Martin. Ankou asks Annie why she feels so driven to claim Jeanne (and this is in the conversation in which the word "claim" is actually used). And Muut bends the rules to get Annie a blinker stone in order to make Jeanne able to attack and cut her, starting the chain of events that leads Annie to take Jeanne into the Ether. Muut admits that he and the others tried to do so but failed, some of them dying in the process, and that they need Annie's help. And yet after it happens, when Annie needs their help to save Smitty, the psychopomps as a group reply that they don't owe her anything. One possible conclusion is that psychopomps get some kind of benefit from the souls they claim. But another possible conclusion is simply that they wish to see things done right and receive no specific benefit. Are there other possible conclusions? Perhaps every soul claimed adds strength to a pantheon or belief system rather than to a specific psychopomp. Perhaps every spirit that continues to elude the psychopomps causes some kind of difficulty in the world, the threads of fate, etc., and thus the benefit of taking someone into the Ether is for the entire world. I'm not sure there's enough evidence to nail it down one way or the other. All I have is the curious use of the word "claim," but that's pretty tenuous evidence, as it's likely a technical psychopomp term whose meaning we haven't been shown. |
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Post by blazingstar on Dec 14, 2023 18:08:31 GMT
One possible conclusion is that psychopomps get some kind of benefit from the souls they claim. But another possible conclusion is simply that they wish to see things done right and receive no specific benefit. Are there other possible conclusions? ...I'm not sure there's enough evidence to nail it down one way or the other. All I have is the curious use of the word "claim," but that's pretty tenuous evidence, as it's likely a technical psychopomp term whose meaning we haven't been shown. Yes, I completely agree with you! It could really go either way, or a variety of ways. It's exciting to leave all our minds open to all the possibilities! I just thought I should point out one of those other possibilities before everyone made assumptions. |
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Post by Nnelg on Dec 14, 2023 18:27:03 GMT
I'd wager ten different courts in ten different countries would give ten different verdicts in this case. And that's exactly why it can't be summararily dismissed. It's not euthanasia; Sam is already dead. We learned the specifics on the next page, but even without that, I think we can infer that Kat is charged with providing whatever Sam needs to die like a human. Sam is still walking and talking here in this ethereal liminal space, is that really dead in the scientific sense? If Kat with all her technology could repair the body (which does not appear to have suffered any physical damage), why not tell the psychopomps to flip off and put Sam's perfectly-functional soul back into his perfectly-functional body? You could extend that reasoning even to those whose bodies were physically destroyed, why not make them new ones? Why do they have to die at this point? Because some supernatural beurocracy says so? Since Kat already has the technology to grow new bodies, and transfer consciousnesses into them, this isn't some "hubrid necromancer doomed to fail" situation. She could have a real chance of undoing death, here. Should she decide to try it. |
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Post by King Mir on Dec 14, 2023 18:35:55 GMT
I feel like the question of what the psychopomps get out of doing their job can be reasoned about by asking why a particular psychopomp in a particular mythology does their job. For example, why did Mercury, God of commerce and guide of the Roman dead escort those that perished in the roman empire?
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Post by imaginaryfriend on Dec 14, 2023 19:26:12 GMT
You could extend that reasoning even to those whose bodies were physically destroyed, why not make them new ones? Why do they have to die at this point? Because some supernatural bureaucracy says so? Several different ways to come at that question. One possible answer is that they're trapped in conventional thinking. Part of the characters being who they are is them thinking the way they think and doing what they do, even though other things were possible. Antimony doesn't remember that these things are only as real as they let them be and Kat tends to defer to Antimony for this stuff when she might possibly do something herself, techno-magus related or conventional, just like "Loup" couldn't get out of the cage because he didn't think about ways he could've used Coyote's power. Sure, Sam might be saved if there was someone who was there who could save him. Or they thought of summoning someone who could save him, which is the same thing really. Alternatively, maybe The Story requires Sam to die here which in the GCU might be the same thing as saying it's his fate. Sorry Sam, your life was brief because you were a foil; you should've spent more time in character gen and made your model more protagonist-like. I wonder if Antimony will remember to offer him a final message (probably not). Like many bureaucrats, Saslamel and Helper Ghost might be nudging Kat in this direction because they think they're doing her a favor, which parallels the common path of regular gods and coincides with what their pre-printed forms were written to handle. Kat as creator almost certainly has the right to repair Sam's body and probably has the right to pack away Sam's ghost with her techno-wizardry but if she misses this window Saslamel would have to make a special house call the next time an NPC dies. Or maybe it's a convergence of some or all of these things. |
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Post by King Mir on Dec 14, 2023 22:37:53 GMT
It's not euthanasia; Sam is already dead. We learned the specifics on the next page, but even without that, I think we can infer that Kat is charged with providing whatever Sam needs to die like a human. Sam is still walking and talking here in this ethereal liminal space, is that really dead in the scientific sense? If Kat with all her technology could repair the body (which does not appear to have suffered any physical damage), why not tell the psychopomps to flip off and put Sam's perfectly-functional soul back into his perfectly-functional body? You could extend that reasoning even to those whose bodies were physically destroyed, why not make them new ones? Why do they have to die at this point? Because some supernatural beurocracy says so? Since Kat already has the technology to grow new bodies, and transfer consciousnesses into them, this isn't some "hubrid necromancer doomed to fail" situation. She could have a real chance of undoing death, here. Should she decide to try it. Kat has the technology to transfer a court robot to a body. She also has the technology to transfer a Coyote-created totem into a body. Neither of these implies that she can transfer the spirit of the recently deceased into a body. I think there are two reasons why Kat probably can't raise the dead. The first is that death is widely known to be final; you can be a spirit after death, but stories of the dead returning to life are more rare, and so it must be harder to do. And as is the nature of the Ether in GC, if most people believe it is hard to do, that makes it so. The second is she didn't plan for it. Probably a bio-mechanical machine can be designed that does not fail when the primary pump fails, but being stabbed in the heart has seemed to separate Sam's spirit from his body. Magic smoke cannot be put back into a CPU. Spilled milk cannot be put back in the bottle. Easier to make a more voltage-tolerant CPU or a stronger bottle. |
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Post by pyradonis on Dec 15, 2023 14:45:17 GMT
I'd wager ten different courts in ten different countries would give ten different verdicts in this case. And that's exactly why it can't be summararily dismissed. It's not euthanasia; Sam is already dead. We learned the specifics on the next page, but even without that, I think we can infer that Kat is charged with providing whatever Sam needs to die like a human. Sam is still walking and talking here in this ethereal liminal space, is that really dead in the scientific sense? If Kat with all her technology could repair the body (which does not appear to have suffered any physical damage), why not tell the psychopomps to flip off and put Sam's perfectly-functional soul back into his perfectly-functional body? You could extend that reasoning even to those whose bodies were physically destroyed, why not make them new ones? Why do they have to die at this point? Because some supernatural beurocracy says so? Since Kat already has the technology to grow new bodies, and transfer consciousnesses into them, this isn't some "hubrid necromancer doomed to fail" situation. She could have a real chance of undoing death, here. Should she decide to try it. Many deities should logically exist in the Gunnerverse who should be able to make a new functioning body out of nothing. Yet apparently none of them do. My guess would be that either in the Gunnerverse death is final and it turns out once a being has died not even gods can revive it... or that they could, but deliberately do not, because likely they know why it's a really bad idea. |
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Post by blahzor on Dec 15, 2023 16:54:13 GMT
And yet the psychopomps manipulated Annie into contact with Jeanne by giving her a blinker stone, seemingly because they needed her help to get Jeanne into the Ether, but when Annie did it, they didn't consider themselves to owe her anything, as if she had already gotten some sort of intangible compensation for her work. Have you considered that the psychopomps didn't think they owed Annie anything for guiding Jeanne, because they don't think their work needs any compensation?And that's when Annie brings some capitalism to the process and get this thing really going |
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Post by Nnelg on Dec 15, 2023 19:22:38 GMT
Many deities should logically exist in the Gunnerverse who should be able to make a new functioning body out of nothing. Yet apparently none of them do. My guess would be that either in the Gunnerverse death is final and it turns out once a being has died not even gods can revive it... or that they could, but deliberately do not, because likely they know why it's a really bad idea. The only one we've seen on-screen is Coyote, who could easily just not want to bring anyone back. Anything more is pure speculation. Edit: Actually, we saw that Anthony went on a quest to bring Surma back, and IIRC got rejected many times—for the reason that Antimony has her soul now. Those entities he asked before turning to darker ones, could have been able to do it under more favorable circumstances. |
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Post by Gemini Jim on Dec 15, 2023 19:55:57 GMT
Have you considered that the psychopomps didn't think they owed Annie anything for guiding Jeanne, because they don't think their work needs any compensation?And that's when Annie brings some capitalism to the process and get this thing really going While I'm currently watching a hilarious isekai comedy where the heroine does exactly that, I can't imagine Annie doing that, except maybe in jest. And then Clippy takes her seriously. (* the rules are explained) "What, you mean like every time I 'pomp an NPC, Kat has to be my maid for a day or something?" "Your terms are acceptable". (* NPC contract amended) |
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Post by silicondream on Dec 15, 2023 20:09:03 GMT
I feel like the question of what the psychopomps get out of doing their job can be reasoned about by asking why a particular psychopomp in a particular mythology does their job. For example, why did Mercury, God of commerce and guide of the Roman dead escort those that perished in the roman empire? Mercury, like the Greek Hermes and the Etruscan Turms, was generally a god of boundaries, travel and transitions. If you were going from anywhere to anywhere else, or moving trade goods around, or sending messages, you wanted his help. Transitioning from life to death was just one facet of that. Within the mythology, which was mostly borrowed from Hermes', Mercury got the job because he was active, curious, and unusually friendly with humans; he was also a trickster, so having a job kept him from getting bored and causing trouble for the other gods. Finally, as the second-youngest of the 12 ruling heavenly deities, the di consentes (or the Olympians in the Greek version), it was socially appropriate for him to be running errands for the pantheon. The reason why someone had to escort the dead was that Pluto (Greek: Hades) was given authority over the underworld when he divided up the universe with his brothers, Jupiter (Zeus) and Neptune (Poseidon). All mortal souls came under Pluto's dominion after death, and he became extremely unhappy when he wasn't given his due. There wasn't really an ethical reason why the dead had to go to the underworld; individual Greco-Roman gods were in charge of enforcing human moral codes, but the gods themselves weren't very morally motivated. They just liked maintaining an order and receiving respect. If you're asking historically, Mercury was inspired by Hermes and Turms, who were around before the organized 12-god structure became a thing. There's a hypothetical proto-Indo-European deity named Péhusōn who would have guarded shepherds and herdsmen and farmers and basically anyone who was out there trying to put the wilderness to human use. Péhusōn's functions eventually got split up into two gods, one who protected people in the really wild places (Roman Faunus, Greek Pan), and one who protected human property boundaries and people moving along roads between human settlements (Hermes/Turms). These two gods stayed tightly connected when the northern Mediterranean religions adopted the Olympian model, so in the mythology, Pan is the son of Hermes and Faunus is the son of Mercury. Christianity and Islam are unusual in their emphasis on correct belief about God, including why he does the things he does. In most other religions, ritual and divine function are more stable over time and place than theology is, so the "why" of it doesn't necessarily have a universally accepted answer. It's more important for the average believer just to know that God X oversees activity Y, so offer that god the appropriate praise and sacrifices and follow their rules if you want them to help you and your community. |
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Post by silicondream on Dec 15, 2023 20:38:25 GMT
Many deities should logically exist in the Gunnerverse who should be able to make a new functioning body out of nothing. Yet apparently none of them do. My guess would be that either in the Gunnerverse death is final and it turns out once a being has died not even gods can revive it... or that they could, but deliberately do not, because likely they know why it's a really bad idea. The only one we've seen on-screen is Coyote, who could easily just not want to bring anyone back. Anything more is pure speculation. Edit: Actually, we saw that Anthony went on a quest to bring Surma back, and IIRC got rejected many times—for the reason that Antimony has her soul now. Those entities he asked before turning to darker ones, could have been able to do it under more favorable circumstances. I don't think even Tony's deceivers promised to bring Surma back in the flesh, just that he could "see her again" in spirit. Coyote probably can't make human bodies either, which is why the Court has to grow them for Forest immigrants. The best he's done as far as making bodies is the Shadow People/Glass-Eyed Men, but he considers them shoddy work compared to humans and discarded them. Loup's memories suggest that Coyote has a mental or emotional block against a scientific understanding of the universe, which I imagine would hamper any attempt to create a living biological organism. That's probably true of most GC deities who were created from myths and stories in pre-scientific cultures. Even if they understand themselves as omnipotent, they're limited by the imaginations of the people who dreamed them up. |
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Post by blahzor on Dec 16, 2023 4:14:43 GMT
There are various time share apartments
And each pomp takes you to a certain one. This is determined by you or your lineage or Kat when confronted by a ether lawyer and it's plucky sidekick
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